[Rumor] Savor the Moment/Panotic Mirror Deck

[Son of Serra]

In one of the other threads, several people mentioned a deck that Dave Williams used to win a side event last Sunday in Chicago. The deck supposedly ran Panotic Mirror with Savor the Moment, then used Serra Sphinx as the kill condition. I wanted to know if anyone had the decklist or could at least explain in more detail what happened. Thanks!

[Hi-Val]

Snoop Trogg, The Trogdonator, Mark Trogdon himself had the deck at the last Meandeck Open. From what I saw, it was UB with basically what you think would go into one, with at least 2 Mirrors and lots of Time Walks.

I don't know if Williams played the deck; from what I heard, he lost to it.

[Twaun007]

Mr. Williams got Mana Drained out of the game by Cleveland's own Triad Boss Yangtime!

Savage.

[Cavius The Great]

How do you go infinite, turn-wise, with Panoptic Mirror and Savor the Moment? You won't be able to untap Mirror next turn which seems kind of weak.

[EnialisLiadon]

It's kind of like how a Stasis lock without Root Maze isn't a game-breaker.  When you have infinite turns with Savor the Moment, you can just keep drawing cards and laying down lands until a big killing turn.

Though I don't know how such a deck would kill...

[Twaun007]

How do you go infinite, turn-wise, with Panoptic Mirror and Savor the Moment? You won't be able to untap Mirror next turn which seems kind of weak.

Panoptic Mirror
Oracle text: Imprint - X, T You may remove an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the game. (That card is imprinted on this artifact.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy an imprinted instant or sorcery card. If you do, you may play the copy without paying its mana cost.

Don't have to tap the Mirror once Savor the Moment is on it. It wins with Serra Sphinx, aka the Blue Serra Angel.

[Son of Serra]

So then, Mark Trodgon made the deck and Dave Williams played it last weekend but did not win, right?

I'd like to know if the deck used Mana Drains or Workshops (or something else) to power out the eight mana required to get the combo setup!

I can't imagine getting beaten by Serra Sphinx for the win in type 1... awesome.

[Cavius The Great]

How do you go infinite, turn-wise, with Panoptic Mirror and Savor the Moment? You won't be able to untap Mirror next turn which seems kind of weak.

Panoptic Mirror
Oracle text: Imprint - X, T You may remove an instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the game. (That card is imprinted on this artifact.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy an imprinted instant or sorcery card. If you do, you may play the copy without paying its mana cost.

Don't have to tap the Mirror once Savor the Moment is on it. It wins with Serra Sphinx, aka the Blue Serra Angel.

That's makes alot more sense. I thought you had to tap it each turn, I misread the card. Thanks for clarifying that.

[LordHomerCat]

So then, Mark Trodgon made the deck and Dave Williams played it last weekend but did not win, right?

I'd like to know if the deck used Mana Drains or Workshops (or something else) to power out the eight mana required to get the combo setup!

I can't imagine getting beaten by Serra Sphinx for the win in type 1... awesome.

Seriously, please learn to read, it's only been stated like 5 times in different places.

DAVE WILLIAMS PLAYED TPS.

JERRY YANG PLAYED MIRROR, MIRROR.

DAVE PLAYED AGAINST JERRY AND LOST.

So no, Dave did not play the deck, Jerry did.  Trogdon designed it, as he does for most of the decks Jerry plays.

[icy_triskelion]

So then, Mark Trodgon made the deck and Dave Williams played it last weekend but did not win, right?

I'd like to know if the deck used Mana Drains or Workshops (or something else) to power out the eight mana required to get the combo setup!

I can't imagine getting beaten by Serra Sphinx for the win in type 1... awesome.

Seriously, please learn to read, it's only been stated like 5 times in different places.

DAVE WILLIAMS PLAYED TPS.

JERRY YANG PLAYED MIRROR, MIRROR.

DAVE PLAYED AGAINST JERRY AND LOST.

So no, Dave did not play the deck, Jerry did.  Trogdon designed it, as he does for most of the decks Jerry plays.

Yeah, Jerry went 5-1 with the deck.  Took second to Nam because of tie breakers but the deck is awesome.

[yangtime]

Hello to Alaska.

I sent Mark a message asking if he was ok with me posting his decklist on here.  I haven't heard back yet.

As for your question about Mana Drain or Mishra's Workshop, it's Mana Drain.

[yangtime]

Mirror, Mirror by Mark Trogdon

4 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

2 Serra Sphinx
1 Sundering Titan

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Savor the Moment
3 Impulse
2 Panoptic Mirror
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Dark Ritual
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Tendrils of Agony
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Damnation
1 Rebuild

I have no idea if the above list is 100% accurate.  I wrote it out from memory, so I'm probably missing a couple cards here and there.  I don't think this is a completed deck, but it's what Mark handed to me Sunday morning.

[rikimaru75]

I've been looking at this deck for the past few days and have been wondering if adding Time Vault would help at all.  Couldn't you exchange your Savor the Moment turns with Time Vault turns?

I also like how this deck seems to have a transformational sideboard.  Think we'll see more decks like it in the format?

[Son of Serra]

Thanks for posting the list (and thank you Mark for allowing the post!)

Up here in Alaska, we have a smaller Vintage scene and I have been playing a lot of Painter's Servant combo (mostly against a guy playing Stax). Mana Drains have been the key to successfully winning in most of my games up here, so seeing a new two-card combo in a Mana Drain "control" shell sounds very exciting.

[rikimaru75]

Lately, I have been testing this deck out to get the Infinite Turn engine to work, but I usually don't end up pulling it off.  I usually end up either defeating the opponent by just laying out early Serra Sphinx/Sundering Titan for the win before my combo can get off the ground.  How often/soon do you end up getting the infinity turn off the ground?

[SnoopTrog]

Lately, I have been testing this deck out to get the Infinite Turn engine to work, but I usually don't end up pulling it off.  I usually end up either defeating the opponent by just laying out early Serra Sphinx/Sundering Titan for the win before my combo can get off the ground.  How often/soon do you end up getting the infinity turn off the ground?

Thank you for your interest in testing. This is very true for the deck because all good opponents do not want to loose to the combo. (Infinite turns so humiliating) They will do anything to prevent your combo, so the resiliency to win another way is clutch.  If would read Jimmy's (lord homercat) article on his success at Vintage champs you will find out that the majority of his wins were via a different route than mindslaver.(Infinite turns so humiliating)  Nobody likes to lose that way so they focus on preventing it.This concept is also true when the good LONG or SLAVER players face off.

Time Vault is a good thought but it would add another unnecessary piece to the combo.

Also if your meta is heavy shops a good sideboard option would be to include Memnarch. Sooooo sweet to steal there artifacts!!!!

[rikimaru75]

Do you have a link to Jimmy's article?  I have been working on making my own variant of this list with some success so far.  Here is what I have come up developed at the moment:

Lands (16):
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island

Creatures (4):
3 Serra Sphinx
1 Sundering Titan

Instants (17):
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Impulse
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth

Sorceries (14):
4 Duress
1 Tinker
1 Timetwister
2 Night's Whisper
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Savor the Moment
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Other (9):
2 Panoptic Mirror
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt

The reason I am not running Thirst for Knowledge at the moment is because I just seem to run into too many situations where either a)I want all the cards or b)there's no aritfact to pitch.  I think if I ran 1 less Serra Sphinx for Time Vault, it may turn out better, but then again, you've stated that Time Vault is more of a 'win more' card.

To my knowledge, most of the metagame is very Shop Agrro, Grim Long and Dredge heavy (see Vintage Comes to Baltimore results).  I have not modified the sideboard just yet to my current metagame, but I am thinking of cutting Rebuild for your Memnarch as an idea.  Think that's a good idea? 

[LordHomerCat]

Do you have a link to Jimmy's article?

I think Mark is just referring to my report from Champs (where I played Strategic Slaver).  I did not cast or tinker for or weld in or activate Mindslaver a single time all day.  The link: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36273.0

[SnoopTrog]

Hey Jimmy you are one of the greatest. Thank you for that link!!!

Rikimaru75: That deck list looks really good. Let me know how the gifts ungiven and night whispers work for you.
The memnarch plan against shop is so sweet. Test it and let me know watch you think. The reason I ran the thirst for knowledge was to filter thru my cards to set up the combo. Please let me know how your testing is going.

Rich Shay suggested splashing red for welders and Mindslaver to call it" slaver the moment". This would  be another form of a slaver deck, which is a great idea.. He also suggested changing personal tutor for ponder, which is a great idea .Because of his thoughts I also thought of switchting to 4 impulse and only 3 thirst to filter faster thru the deck. Thank you Rich for your helpful insight.

[The Atog Lord]

Thanks Mark! Here's an idea I had for a build of Slaver the Moment. I have no idea if it is any good, but it sure looks fun.

// Land
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

// Mana
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

// Artifacts
1 Mindslaver
1 Tormod's Crypt

// Game Ending
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker

// Cantrips
3 Strategic Planning / Impulse
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder

// Control
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Rack and Ruin

// Draw / Search
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Mystical Tutor

// What's a Robot?
3 Goblin Welder
1 Triskelavus

// Win The Prize
2 Panoptic Mirror
2 Savor the Moment
1 Vampiric Tutor

[SnoopTrog]

That deck looks like fun. I will build it to play this Wend. coming up. I will offer it to your teammate Nam Tran to play and test with. I am so fortunate that I get to play test against Nam because he lives so close. If he decide not to play it , then I will play it.  I'll post my / his results for you. Again thank you for your insight.

[rikimaru75]

Atog Lord, looking at your decklist...what are you planning to do to 'win' if you get the mirror/savor lock?

[diopter]

Atog Lord, looking at your decklist...what are you planning to do to 'win' if you get the mirror/savor lock?

Probably find Time Walk, the second Panoptic Mirror and some number of Welders to exchange his Mirror'd Savor for a Mirror'd Walk.

[CHAOSBLACKDOOM]

What about playing Academy Ruins to get back Mindslaver or Triskelavus for a kill that way?

[Harlequin]

I think Rich's approach is correct.  Why devote deckspace to something terrible that kills when you have ~INFINITE TURNS!  You start drawing out your deck until you have an ungodly amount of mana and two welders in play.  Now you slave them and weld out The savor the moment.  Go to the slave turn, screw them over, and go back to your turn.  With Triskelavus and 2 welders you have slave lock.  You'll have an epic amount of mana, so making triskelavites while maintaining the slave lock would be easy as pie.

[erictehfatz0r]

I think that a lot what you said is sub-par, considering the fact that you have infinite turns. Why would you take infinite turns, and then want to ruin their board by slaving them? You've already won; you have infinite turns.

I'll have to get the exact number tomorrow when I playtest with Mark and Jerry, but I'm pretty sure Jerry won a whole lot of games on the back of a protected Sphinx. About half, IIRC. Nam playtested Rich's list at our weekly tournament and kept saying that he wanted something to win with. The deck seemed too slow watching him play it, but Nam will have to comment on it.

I personally like the addition of welder, but having it in the deck almost forces you to play other robots, essentially turning you into slaver with an unnecessary combo center. Maybe perhaps only as a 2-or-1 of, to reinforce the Mirror Strategy without forcing you to run Strat planning/Slaver/Trikebus. You'd really only need it against control to solidify having a mirror in play. Red splashing might hurt the manabase too much against shops, however.

[rikimaru75]

I was running my variant of this deck over at the Blue Bell, PA tournament (8/23) and got blown away mostly due to various misplays I made.  I can make a report if you want, but I'd really like to see some sort of turn-by-turn analysis on how this deck should be played.  I am just so intrigued by the deck.  Though I didn't do well, when I did get the deck going, Serra Sphinx really did carry my way to victory.

[rikimaru75]

Looking at the original base, why the choice to run Personal Tutor over Vampiric Tutor?

[Twaun007]

Looking at the original base, why the choice to run Personal Tutor over Vampiric Tutor?

Vampiric Tutor can get you anything you need. Personal Tutor only gets Sorcery's.

[rikimaru75]

Mirror, Mirror by Mark Trogdon

4 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

2 Serra Sphinx
1 Sundering Titan

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Savor the Moment
3 Impulse
2 Panoptic Mirror
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Dark Ritual
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Tendrils of Agony
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Damnation
1 Rebuild

I have no idea if the above list is 100% accurate.  I wrote it out from memory, so I'm probably missing a couple cards here and there.  I don't think this is a completed deck, but it's what Mark handed to me Sunday morning.

Vampiric Tutor can get you anything you need. Personal Tutor only gets Sorcery's.

When I look at Jerry's deck, I wonder why the choice for Personal Tutor over Vampiric.  Sure, it gets you a 'turn' combo piece, but it seems a turn too late since you would probably be using it as a mirror target during your upkeep with the mirror's ability on the stack.