The State of Control Slaver

[Soon-Man]

I have seen the reports, thank you for the info though. I am wondering how the builds differ and what is stronger/weaker about them. Play styles, good and bad match ups, ect.

[bluemage55]

You can find tournament info about that build of CS here, here, here, and here as well as tournament reports here and here.

Morphling.de fails me.

[brianpk80]

Has anyone tested Lat-Nam's Legacy?  With the absence of Brainstorm, it's become the second best hand fixer I can find for Oath of Druids.  With early robots cluttering up the hand (or the prime Tinker target), might this be a viable option for Slaver?

[John Jones]

UWRB Control

Creatures: 9
4 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sharuum The Hegemon
1 Platnium Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelavus

Control: 13
1 Mindslaver
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Balance
1 Echoing Truth
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of will

Draw/tutors: 15
1 Time walk
1 Ancestral recall
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowlege
4 Stragetic Planning

 
Mana x23
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tolarian Academy

Here is a list that I have been toying around with and it is playing pretty well. You can really do some crazy things with balance as well as Sharum. This deck plays heavy on the welders although I believe I am cutting 1-2 cards for 2x Negate (possibly 1-2 stragetic plannings).

[bluemage55]

Here is a list that I have been toying around with and it is playing pretty well. You can really do some crazy things with balance as well as Sharum. This deck plays heavy on the welders although I believe I am cutting 1-2 cards for 2x Negate (possibly 1-2 stragetic plannings).

How problematic is running the 4th color, considering that even 3 color lists have trouble dealing with an early threat backed by Wasteland?

[bluemage55]

I'm rather disappointed by the inactivity of this thread, especially given that Slaver lists continue to Top 8 in the United States.

Is Slaver simply considered strictly inferior to Tezzeret now?

[LordHomerCat]

I'm rather disappointed by the inactivity of this thread, especially given that Slaver lists continue to Top 8 in the United States.

Is Slaver simply considered strictly inferior to Tezzeret now?

I wouldn't play Slaver over Tez.  Tez is just faster and more explosive, and currently those are pretty valuable traits.

[John Jones]

Yesterday I drew the finals with a tez player who beat me earlier in the day. I was playing Control Slaver. I changed up my list a lot after the last tournament. I will post it later.

[John Jones]

Control Slaver

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Fire//Ice
1 Couriers Capsule
1 Echoing Truth
1 Tinker
1 Timewalk
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Goblin Welder
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Platinum Angel
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Rack and Ruin

5 Moxen (usual)
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
2 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Island

SB
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Echoing Truth
1 Gaeas Blessing
3 Firespout
3 Energy Flux
3 Engineered Plague
3 Thoughtseize

[hauntedechos]

I'm not sure if I am off point here or not, but it seems to me, that with Tezz being faster, that CS needs to pack maindeck REB.  Not only that, but perhalps another maindeck artifact hate card to combat faster, combo orientated Vault/Key lists, I was thinking Ingot Chewer for that purpose.  Welders are horridly slow in this meta as well, yet w/o them I just don't see CS holding onto the full "control" aspect of the deck.  I'm not sure about others reading this, but the meta that I am in (albeit scrubby and budget) doesn't see many playing Shop based decks, so cutting down to two Welders seems good to me.

In regards to the above post w/ Sharuum.  I encourage all forms of development in Vintage of course, however, I belive that it would be better off as Tezz himself.  Surely Tezz won't bring back Mindslaver, however it will bring 1/2 of the vault key combo and win on the next turn.  Beyond that, I always thought that it was the Welders job to recur the Mind Slaver.

In the end I think that CS is in the same position that it was in just before Shards was printed:  Needs more early/mid game and more than likely just plain old draw.  I was abusing Night's Whisper before I switched off to other decks and it worked great.  Mebbe I will sleeve it up again and see what I can come up with after a break from it.

The current state of Slaver?  Hangin in there and looking to have more impact in the early - Mid Game.

Haunted

[itto]

Hi all, I played CS since the beginning of its days and it's one of the reasons why I still play Vintage today.

I too, like many of you, think that the main problem with CS is the early game, when fast combo decks can just beat CS on the go, and the mid game, when there are better decks able to support and win a counter war.

So for me the best way to solve this is to play cards that can be used since turn one and make a big advantage over the opponent, in terms of board control.

Here I will explain the strategy that I will much likely test from now on, and is based on two cards: Blood Moon and Stifle.

Blood Moon is a card with an accessible CC, can sometimes go off on turn one, and it can lock so many decks. Blood Moon means goodbye to opponents fetchs, duals, bazaars, workshops, strip lands, orchard, etc... With just one card the opponent may find itself in huge troubles. The main problem with BM is that during that 1-2 turns the opponent can still fetch for basic lands, and suddenly the moon is no longer a problem. Here comes Stifle, that helps preventing the opponent to fetch for his basic land and also private the opponent from an important mana. Stifle also may come in handy against storm cards, bazaar activation (thus becoming a time walk for us), problematic artifacts such as Voltaic Key, prevents our lands from being wasted, etc... for me its really versatile and costs only one blue mana.

I took into consideration Duress, but with BM you can't just go and fecth for a Black mana dual because it will then become a mountain, so this kind of deck should be based around red mainly, but this doesn't mean it can run cards such as Demonic Tutor (to find the BM faster) or Y. Will, always broken, but not cards in multiple copies such as Duress or Night Whisper.
REB may be an intelligent choice if the field expected is full of blu-based control-combo decks, but I doubt it will be so versatile as Stifle.

Then we have to consider how much we want to be Welder dependants, or if we can use other form of board control such as Gorilla Shaman (since the opponent with this configuration will much likely rely only on its moxes for the mana), etc...

I have listed an example list I would like to work around and test.

3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Islands (1 Snow Covered, it doesn't hurt)
2 Volcanic Islands
1 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst For Knowlege
4 Stifle
3 Blood Moon
2 Goblin Welders
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Lotus Petal (Drain on turn one is vital)
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mindslaver
1 Triskellion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Tinker
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Brainstorm (or Ponder, which is better because of its shuffling effect in absence of fetchs under BM)
2 Echoing Truth
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gifts Ungiven

The strategy of this deck is to cast Blood Moon as soon as possible with the help of Stifle and Drain to gain speed, like:

Turn 1: Stifle over opponent's fetch
Turn 2: BM with the help of a mana artifact
OR
Turn 3: BM with the help of Drain

Of course, if we don't have BM in hand we can always play the old way, like turn one welder for fast robots, or keeperish style with a final Tinker or Yawgmoth's Will.

I would really like to hear your thoughts about this strategy.

Itto

[hauntedechos]

@ Itto:  Do you think that both Ponder and Brainstorm should be included?

At anyrate, I like the fact that you are trying to beef up the early game here.  I wonder about the effectiveness of Moon effects and if Stifle is not effective enough as is.  Stifle is cheap and seems to have effects all through the game states.  Moon effects, while cripling to decks not running enough basics, can become dead cards in the times that a fetch slips past you for some reason.  To magnify this query, my mono  Shop deck has been eyeballing Magus of the Moon to be cut, as it's been played around as many times as it's been a lock piece.

With Null Rod being a solid choice for players right now, do you think that the Top slot should be better used as the Ponder slot?

I understand how your build wants to shy away from cards that require you to fetch out Dual lands, but honestly, Night's Whisper really seemed like the best additional engine that I could come up with for CS.  I also understand that the use of Moon effects pushes the need to shy away from Duals.  It's another reason that I question the use of BM or MoTM.

Anywyas, it's just my 2 cents here.

Haunted.

[itto]

@ hauntedechos: First of all thank you for your reply

@ Itto:  Do you think that both Ponder and Brainstorm should be included?

With Null Rod being a solid choice for players right now, do you think that the Top slot should be better used as the Ponder slot?

I think both ponder and brainstorm should be included, but anyway I didn't manage to get a slot for both of them right now. For me Top is a solid new entry that should rest there, because lets you search for additional cards, could even draw the card you found, is synergic with Tinker, TFK, Welder and Tolaria. I believe this is a great card in this deck. It looses much of its power when Blood Moon is in play, but it won't become useless anyway.

I wonder about the effectiveness of Moon effects and if Stifle is not effective enough as is.  Stifle is cheap and seems to have effects all through the game states. Moon effects, while cripling to decks not running enough basics, can become dead cards in the times that a fetch slips past you for some reason.

That's right, and that's the problem that older version of C-Slavery running Blood Moon have always had. This is why Stifles are there, to preventing the opponent for fetching out his basic lands. Of course it can happen to play BM without any Stifle being used, or the opponent may always find a basic land or already have it in hand, I think this eventuality cannot be prevented at all with any card, unless you play land destruction cards, but for a basic land only Strip Mine will be effective, and you can only play one. Instead, I can play four copies of Stifle and I think no one deck running fetches out there has less than four of them, with many decks having five to six copies. So it seems to me that the probability to have a Stifle on turn 1 and the opponent to have a fetch on turn 1 to be targetted is equal, at worst.
I won't run Blood Moon without Stifle supporting it (as I did in the past), because it hasn't revealed as strong alone.

Night's Whisper really seemed like the best additional engine that I could come up with for CS

This is the point. I am not trying to find another draw engine, since I think it isn't needed. Instead, I'm trying to find cards and a plan that can effectively help the deck in the first turns to gain control of the board.

My tought is this: I don't want to keep running and drawing infinite cards to reach my opponent (in terms of card advantage, or overall speed of my gameplan). I want to lock my opponent, and if I manage to lock his deck on the first turns it is HE who have to run to find a solution for my threats, not me. This is kinda changing the perspective of how C-Slavery should be played maybe.

For me, a second turn BM for example has always been a huge hit at my opponent's deck, many times it had cost him the game. But it was more or less a situational card because there was not a gameplan that could effectively support it. But with Stifle I think it could become a really serious matter.

[hauntedechos]

Well, your thoughts are well presented and I can see what you are trying to do.  At this point I would love to see what your testing results will/have been and what decks you were testing against.  My exp.  with Moon effects hasn't been as promising, but then again I wasn't using Stifle.

I was wondering what your exp. with the following situation has been.

you: island/fetch - go
Op: Fetch /crack for -response, Stifle - go
You: fetch, moxen, crack for Volc, play BM - response, Force (let's just say that you didn't have a Force to back up) - go
Op: dual/island w/e - Brainstorm or, Ponder or, Ancestral .....(depending on the deck who knows what else gets played)

How has the rest of the game played out after that fact.  I know that it has happened to me and it didn't go very well barring that i too drew a decent draw/hand sculpting card post b/r.  Against Storm, It was like we reset to turn 1 and they blew me out of the water.

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to argue or troll here, I think it's great that there are people out there to keep CS alive.  I'm just interested in the conversation and exp. of going so heavy on mana denial through unconventional routes.

Haunted.

[bluemage55]

In the end I think that CS is in the same position that it was in just before Shards was printed:  Needs more early/mid game and more than likely just plain old draw.  I was abusing Night's Whisper before I switched off to other decks and it worked great.  Mebbe I will sleeve it up again and see what I can come up with after a break from it.

The current state of Slaver?  Hangin in there and looking to have more impact in the early - Mid Game.

Your analysis is pretty spot on.  The biggest issue facing Control Slaver is the need for a drawing engine besides Thirst.

While it may not have always been viewed as such, Brainstorm/Fetch was effectively Slaver's secondary drawing engine after Thirst; it provides virtual card advantage through card quality, and it disposes of otherwise dead robots.  The biggest problem with Slaver as compared to other Drain decks is that its dead cards hurt a lot more now that Brainstorm is restricted.  To make up for this, Slaver needs additional card selection and/or raw card drawing to reinforce its consistency.

With this in mind, I've been running the following list:

//NAME: Efficient (Slaverless) Slaver
// Mana Sources (23)
        5 Fetch
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Tolarian Academy
        3 Underground Sea
        2 Volcanic Island
        3 Island
        7 SoLoMoxen
        1 Lotus Petal
// Welders + Robots (6)
        2 Goblin Welder
        1 Sensei's Divining Top
        1 Crucible of Worlds
        1 Triskelavus
        1 Sundering Titan
// Countermagic (9)
        4 Mana Drain
        4 Force of Will
        1 Misdirection
// Removal (4)
        1 Echoing Truth
        1 Gorilla Shaman
        1 Tormod's Crypt
        1 Engineered Explosives
// Drawing Engine (10)
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Brainstorm
        1 Ponder
        2 Strategic Planning
        4 Thirst for Knowledge
        1 Fact or Fiction
// Tutors (6)
        1 Mystical Tutor
        1 Merchant Scroll
        1 Tinker
        1 Gifts Ungiven
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Demonic Tutor
// Win (2)
        1 Time Walk
        1 Yawgmoth's Will

While the list is deceptively similar to Jimmy McCarthy's Worlds list, it has a few key differences that significantly affect the way the deck is played:

-1 Mana Vault
-1 Mindslaver
-2 Strategic Planning
-1 Rack and Ruin

+1 Ponder
+1 Gifts Ungiven
+1 Vampiric Tutor
+1 Sensei's Divining Top
+1 Engineered Explosives

The most noticeable change was the removal of Mindslaver itself.  My experience with it is that it's simply a dead card too often to merit its benefits.  With the restriction of Brainstorm, you really need to be efficient with the number of robots you run.  Mindslaver was simply not pulling it's weight, as it requires a significant amount of mana to activate, and is situational in and of itself.  When it can be used, it's sometimes win more.  If I'm not mistaken, I also recall reading a tournament report by either McCarthy or Brian DeMars regretting having Slaver sit around doing nothing.  Just as older Slaver lists pruned powerful but situational artifacts like Memnarch in the name of efficiency, I have to argue that Mindslaver has got to go.

A side benefit of not running Mindslaver is that the colorless mana requirement of the deck goes down by a bit, as you no longer need to come up with 4 for activations or 6 to hardcast it.  As a result, I feel safe in cutting Mana Vault from the list.

The other big change is the removal of 2 Strategic Plannings.  As has been previously discussed on this thread, Strategic Planning simply isn't the powerhouse that it was initially hailed as.  In my testing, I've found it to be most effective as a Brainstorm replacement.  It makes an excellent turn 1 play (off a moxen), and the fact that it is blue means that you can otherwise pitch it as it isn't as valuable in other situations.  It's also pretty decent in a topdecking contest, and plays nice with Welder and/or Crucible.  I've found 2 Strategic Plannings to be a good amount, as you never really want to see 2 of them, but seeing 1 in your opening hand is as good as Brainstorm or Ponder.

With the space freed up by these removals, I've bulked up drawing/tutoring engine.  I feel Ponder is an autoinclude.  Like Brainstorm, it helps fix your opening hand, and to a lesser extent, can mitigate the presence of dead robots by pushing them down or shuffling them.  While it may be immediately obvious, the addition of Gifts Ungiven and Vampiric Tutor are both draw engine cards.  By tutoring for Ancestral, Fact, or Gifts, Vamp reinforces your drawing engine in the same way Merchant Scroll does.  While the power and usages of Gifts are beyond the scope of a single post, suffice to say that it's a brutal way to spend your Drain mana and can usually seal the game.  On top of that, using Gifts to dump 2 robots and/or lands can make an otherwise inconspicuous Welder or Crucible into a win.

Sensei's Divining Top offers another nice boost to the lists's efficiency and consistency.  It essentially replaces Mindslaver by giving you a different artifact to use those 2 Welders on, only it is much more valuable when you don't have a Welder out.  SDT also does fun things with the 2 top deck tutors, and again mitigates the presence of dead robots in the deck by pushing them down until they're needed.

The final change was replacing Rack and Ruin with Engineered Explosives.  In keeping with the theme of consistency and efficiency, I've taken out a card that is more of a metagame slot/sb card in favor of a removal slot that is more versatile.  I've talked about the strengths of Engineered Explosives elsewhere in the thread, but it's enough to say that it deals with creatures and enchantments in addition to the artifacts R&R does and pitches to Thirst to boot.

My overall impression with this list is that it plays like older, traditional Control/Combo lists do.  The problematic early game is handled by removal/FoW made readily available by tutors, followed up by a powerful midgame drawing engine that refills your hand to accelerate you into a combo win.  It's usually slower than Tez, but it's more controlling and can occasionally explode faster when you get out an early Welder.

Comments and criticisms welcomed and appreciated.

[dark burn]

I really like the idea of early game stifle.  Missing the first or second land drop can be a huge setback to the combo decks that usually beat up on slaver.  The fact that it also stops the actual storm is another plus.  I dont like the idea of playing blood moon as well.  It seems like you have to bend the mana base too much and change too much of the deck around to fit it in.  It is also only good on turn 1 or 2, after that it is an absolute dead draw.

I think a better idea would be to beef up the draw engine with the suggestions posted by others and include stifle as a powerful turn 1/2 disruption piece.

[Troy_Costisick]

I really like the idea of early game stifle.  Missing the first or second land drop can be a huge setback to the combo decks that usually beat up on slaver.  The fact that it also stops the actual storm is another plus.  I dont like the idea of playing blood moon as well. 

It can stop Tez too, so that's important to keep in mind as well.

Peace,

-Troy

[John Jones]

Stifle seems like it is worth a shot, however, while bloodmoon may be back breaking I think it hurts you too much.

As for draw engines, I really like the package that I had.

4x thirst
1x Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Couriers Capsule
1x Fire//Ice
1x FoF
1x Gifts

I might actually cut something (more than likely EE) for another couriers capsule.

[bluemage55]

As for draw engines, I really like the package that I had.

4x thirst
1x Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Couriers Capsule
1x Fire//Ice
1x FoF
1x Gifts

I think the biggest problem with your package is the lack of turn 1 draw fixing.  Traditional Drain decks have strongly benefited from Brainstorm x4 to sculpt their hand; with only a single copy of Brainstorm, and no "replacements", you're going to run into consistency problems, especially since your deck features 5 robots and 2 combo pieces, all of which are likely dead cards for the first 3 turns.  You don't even have SDT to mitigate this.  You'll draw into an average of 1 useless artifact in your first 9 cards and rarely a Brainstorm to fix it; that's an unacceptable degree of inconsistency that is likely to make your deck strictly inferior to Tez.

[the boogie man]

Has anyone tried trinket mage? It is card advantage, a generic beater, pitches to force, and is a pretty good mana sink. that would make thirst and welder better, i think. you could also get away with a toolbox package with stuff like the explosives, top, crypt, perhaps vault+key.

[LordHomerCat]

As for draw engines, I really like the package that I had.

4x thirst
1x Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Couriers Capsule
1x Fire//Ice
1x FoF
1x Gifts

I think the biggest problem with your package is the lack of turn 1 draw fixing.  Traditional Drain decks have strongly benefited from Brainstorm x4 to sculpt their hand; with only a single copy of Brainstorm, and no "replacements", you're going to run into consistency problems, especially since your deck features 5 robots and 2 combo pieces, all of which are likely dead cards for the first 3 turns.  You don't even have SDT to mitigate this.  You'll draw into an average of 1 useless artifact in your first 9 cards and rarely a Brainstorm to fix it; that's an unacceptable degree of inconsistency that is likely to make your deck strictly inferior to Tez.

If you aren't gonna run Strat Plans, I think you need like Tops or possibly even Impulse or something just so you aren't just sitting there in the early game all the time.  You can't just untap and go infinite like Tez, you need to do things before you can win.

[dark burn]

I figure that if you cant play a turn 1 capsule or thirst, wouldnt you mull the hand?  I havent played cs much but with the mana and artifacts this should be possible.

[Metman]

A couple points on the CS's draw engine that I would like to add.  The first, Strategic Planning is underwelming.  I don't like that it is completely blind.  It's a great card when Welder is active and one of the three is a big artifact.  Too often I found I was choosing between Force and more gas.  Second, Courier's Capsule is a mana pig and terrible unless Welder was active and I had nothing else to do.  Third, I wish Night's Whisper was blue.  Even though it's black it still may be the best supplemental draw engine for CS.  It requires leaning on black more which sucks since so many of CS's best tools are Red and there just isn't enough space and mana sources to go heavy on both Black and Red.  I found it to move the deck along better than any other draw spell in CS.  Fourth and finally, I've written here before but I think there is a spot in Slaver for Magus of the Future.  It's a house plain and simple.  If you can play three land in three turns and Mana Drain a two casting cost spell you have the opportunity to play the guy.  What's great about it is that Slaver is a momentum deck that can pile on mana sources, threats, and game closing cards without worrying much about over extending.  There is no mana and spell math that you have to do.  MotF allows you to go all in and there are a million tricks in Slaver to keep them revealed and played.  Test it if you are looking for another big draw bomb and already have Fact or Fiction and Gifts Ungiven in there. 

[bluemage55]

I figure that if you cant play a turn 1 capsule or thirst, wouldnt you mull the hand?  I havent played cs much but with the mana and artifacts this should be possible.

It's not possible, unless you want to do a lot of mulling.  Thirst normally comes online on turn 2; it's not at all common for you to draw the necessary acceleration on top of Thirst in your opening hand.

[bluemage55]

A couple points on the CS's draw engine that I would like to add.  The first, Strategic Planning is underwelming.  I don't like that it is completely blind.  It's a great card when Welder is active and one of the three is a big artifact.  Too often I found I was choosing between Force and more gas. 

Strat Plans are also good on turn 1 as a Brainstorm replacement, and when in a topdeck contest, but your other points are valid.

Second, Courier's Capsule is a mana pig and terrible unless Welder was active and I had nothing else to do.

Agreed, although it should be noted that it's also good if you're running Master of Etherium.

Third, I wish Night's Whisper was blue.  Even though it's black it still may be the best supplemental draw engine for CS.  It requires leaning on black more which sucks since so many of CS's best tools are Red and there just isn't enough space and mana sources to go heavy on both Black and Red.  I found it to move the deck along better than any other draw spell in CS. 

Absolutely, but I doubt WotC will ever print a card that functionally draws 2 cards for 1U.

Fourth and finally, I've written here before but I think there is a spot in Slaver for Magus of the Future.  It's a house plain and simple.  If you can play three land in three turns and Mana Drain a two casting cost spell you have the opportunity to play the guy.  What's great about it is that Slaver is a momentum deck that can pile on mana sources, threats, and game closing cards without worrying much about over extending.  There is no mana and spell math that you have to do.  MotF allows you to go all in and there are a million tricks in Slaver to keep them revealed and played.  Test it if you are looking for another big draw bomb and already have Fact or Fiction and Gifts Ungiven in there. 

I've tested it before, and the biggest problem that you are downplaying is the need to drop those 3 lands.  And the fact that you're typically playing it off Drain mana means that you would normally need to drop 3 lands from the start if you needed to fire your Drain by turn 2 (which is common).  If it was 3UU, or even 4UU, MotF/Future Sight  would be better, but at 2UUU, it offers significant consistency problems.

[rikimaru75]

I am new to running slaver and was having a lot of trouble with Gifts Ungiven targets.  What are the typical targets in slaver for gifts?  Demonic, Mystical, Scroll, Vampiric seems like the obvious one, but are there any other combinations?  Have anyone attempted using white for enlightened tutor instead of black?

[mishraw]

I am new to running slaver and was having a lot of trouble with Gifts Ungiven targets.  What are the typical targets in slaver for gifts?  Demonic, Mystical, Scroll, Vampiric seems like the obvious one, but are there any other combinations?  Have anyone attempted using white for enlightened tutor instead of black?

Hi, there isn't a STANDARD play with gift ungiven: for example, in Control Slaver you can also play it just for 2 big artifact(mindslaver, sundering titan etc..) if you already had goblin welder on the board.

[MEATROCKET]

Gifts is just stupid in slaver.  As in really really good.  My slaver list has a Time Vault and Key in it and making gifts piles is fun (sure I might take a while some times).  Oh I also play Sharuum because Sharuum is straight Busted with a capital B.  My favorite gifts pile right now is Tinker, Yawg Will, Time Vault, Key.  I end up with half the combo and Tinker, which gets Sharuum who puts the other combo piece into play.  Or Sharuum grabs S Titan...

It's not often that that can happen of course, but it's just an example of what mish said: there isn't a standard gifts play in slaver.  With so many tools in the deck you just get whatever you need.

[bluemage55]

I am new to running slaver and was having a lot of trouble with Gifts Ungiven targets.  What are the typical targets in slaver for gifts?  Demonic, Mystical, Scroll, Vampiric seems like the obvious one, but are there any other combinations?

As stated by others, burying 2 robots is a standard usage.  If you have Crucible in play, grabbing Strip+Academy+Delta+Strand gives you access to any lands you need.  If you need mana and don't have Crucible, Delta+Strand+Island+Snow-Covered Island is fine.  If you expect the need for a counter in the near future grab FoW+Drain+Scroll+BLotus.  If you want to end the game but are missing Vamp and/or Demonic and don't have Yawg, get Mystical+Thirst+Scroll+Welder.  If you don't need anything in particular FoW+Drain+TfK+Strat Plans will conservatively reinforce your position.

Have anyone attempted using white for enlightened tutor instead of black?

Enlightened Tutor is terrible.  Splashing white in Slaver is even more terrible.

[rikimaru75]

Here's my current build:

Lands (16):
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
2 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island

Creatures (8):
4 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Triskelion
1 Triskevalus
1 Sundering Titan

Instants (19):
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Brainstorm

Sorceries (6):
1 Tinker
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Artifacts (11):
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mindslaver
1 Crucible of Worlds

Lots of people in my area are starting to run Inkwell Leviathan over Darksteel Colossus nowadays, and its starting to lead me to question Echoing Truth's performance lately.  Although it's a good pitch card to force, I really find it dead most of the time.  However, I am considering on putting it in the board so as not to remove it completely.

Also, it seems like my deck has 1 or 2 too many Goblin Welders, but I do not know what could replace the slot.

I suppose Triskelion could also be replaced, but lately I have seen a rise in fish and welders-engine decks, so having him around is nice; however, perhaps with that said, do you think a maindeck fire/ice would be more appropriate since it can get online faster?

Any help is appreciated.