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Author Topic: Ethersworn Canonist: White's Vintage Savior?  (Read 13928 times)
Prometheon
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« on: September 16, 2008, 11:13:21 pm »

Ethersworn Canonist 1W
Artifact Creature - Human Cleric
Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.
2/2

Link: http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/4

Amazing against storm, and playable turn 1 off a mox. This card seems patently ridiculous. Discuss...

My first thought was playing this in a UW Fish shell and just loading up on more countermagic than normal. If your opponent plays their 1 non-artifact spell for the turn and you counter it, it's gone for good. They can't Force back and save it. I also considered Erayo, but because they can play an artifact to get countered by Erayo's ability, it's effect is not as powerful as Arcane Lab, and doesn't produce a hard lock. Still, this effect is very strong for only 2 mana (with a body) and it may even see play in a White Stax deck (perhaps with Suppression Field?)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 11:35:21 pm by Prometheon » Logged
arctic79
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« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2008, 11:24:31 pm »

For Vintage I see this going in Fish decks as a sideboard option to Storm based decks as it really doesn't do much against welder based decks.

*EDIT*
Apparently I can not read.  My bad
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 02:41:56 am by arctic79 » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2008, 11:28:04 pm »

Its everything NON-artifact gets "arcane labbed", so its really good IN affinity. Think you may have mis-read it.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2008, 11:30:56 pm »

Wow crazy...
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2008, 11:52:27 pm »

I'm impressed. I've never been big into fish but I could start, and white stax sounds fun.
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2008, 12:00:28 am »

I really want this to be good. I think the biggest hurdle for it is that it loses to the Rebuild/Hurkyl's that every combo deck packs in the main.

Alternatively, it's a great card for Monoblue countering strategies, since your counters become Last Words.
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2008, 12:01:49 am »

I'm impressed. I've never been big into fish but I could start, and white stax sounds fun.

Mono white stax has long been a dream of mine! Enlightened tutor here I come!
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2008, 12:04:18 am »

I'm surprised you didn't mention this card can be played with Workshop mana.  And... welded in/out?  Unfortunately, it's still hit by Rebuild/Hurkyl's Recall.

w/r Stax was slowly becoming a huge threat to storm decks before Gush was unrestricted.  Mindcensor and Glowrider locked down the opponent and weren't affected by Rebuild.  This type of build would probably be good regardless, and even better without Ethersworn Cannonist.

Other than Tezzeret, Shards is just stock full of cards that are *almost good enough.  Though I think Master of Etherium has a lot of potential. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 12:21:53 am by desolutionist » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2008, 06:40:18 am »

I'm impressed. I've never been big into fish but I could start, and white stax sounds fun.

Mono white stax has long been a dream of mine! Enlightened tutor here I come!


ME TO!!!

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This will be interesting, I am really like shards, it will definately shake up the format!
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nineisnoone
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2008, 07:07:04 am »

WOW.  I mean, I guess you can still do things like Vamp EOT opps turn, then bounce on yours.  But at the very least it's a 2/2 with an amazing ability.  UW fish is gonna be nuts.  I don't think it'll be that good in Stax.  Spheres basically do the same job, but are easier to cast.  I'd rather stick with mono-brown.  (But I guess I'm a fan).
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2008, 07:15:53 am »

@nineisnoone : Dont count on your tutors to find rebuild against stax if ti also packs mindlock orb....
Definatly, i see Workshop aggro being a really strong contender in the post SoA metagame... And Esoteric lab is far a better effect than Sphere of resistance...
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nineisnoone
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2008, 07:53:16 am »

It's a better effect than spheres, but harder to cast.  I dunno, if I'd splash white to a mono-brown Stax list for this.  I think Red would still be a better option.  Though it'll probably be good for 5 color Stax which also gets Mindlock.
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2008, 07:57:50 am »

The card is made for Bomberman, you get to lock down their combo and your combo is artifact based, "More bears for the board."

Edit: Same for Suicide Virus, kind of.
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2008, 09:23:18 am »

How so for bomberman? Go back to they pyrite kill?
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wiley
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2008, 10:00:54 am »

Bounce him right before you play all your dudes, time walk, replay him.
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2008, 10:09:38 am »

Got it, it wasn't hitting me that he was a creature.
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2008, 10:24:33 am »

That thing has an enormous backside.  In the past, X/1 problem creatures gave us plenty of options for removal.  Darkblast, Lava Dart, Flame Jab, Triskelion etc were card could destroy an entire deck based on 1 toughness creatures.  This is a very surprising card.  I look forward to seeing it's role in Vintage. 
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2008, 10:52:39 am »

That thing has an enormous backside.  In the past, X/1 problem creatures gave us plenty of options for removal.  Darkblast, Lava Dart, Flame Jab, Triskelion etc were card could destroy an entire deck based on 1 toughness creatures.  This is a very surprising card.  I look forward to seeing it's role in Vintage. 

Its a 2/2, just sayin'
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dopamine
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2008, 02:27:38 pm »

Alara is bringing us all sorts of goodies - my first thought when I saw this spoiled was that I needed to pick up a playset for Fish, but it has some powerful implications in Vintage. Against non-Workshop decks, I'd just side out Kataki and side in this.
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hitman
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2008, 05:22:09 pm »

Combo can play Massacre to beat this guy.  If you play a spell, you're screwed 'cause you can't even counter the Massacre.  You'll most definitely be playing some Plains if this guy's resolving so combo won't have to Ritual into it.  It is strong but it won't shut combo out any more than Fish decks already have the ability to.  Between two Massacres in the side, Mystical and Vampiric Tutor, it won't be hard to find and resolve it.  If you keep counters up, you won't be playing any threats.  This guy will want to see play with Cursecatcher probably.  If you mainboard this guy, it'll suck hard against Workshop Aggro, Fish decks with bigger finishers like Tarmogoyf and Oath.  It may be better as a sideboard card.  It seems like mono-blue style decks are gaining in popularity and it could be strong against them, though. 

It may be weak against Engineered Explosives.  Fish decks have traditionally run Null Rod though so it may not be a big deal. 
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nineisnoone
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2008, 05:42:25 pm »

Combo can play Massacre to beat this guy.  If you play a spell, you're screwed 'cause you can't even counter the Massacre.  You'll most definitely be playing some Plains if this guy's resolving so combo won't have to Ritual into it.  It is strong but it won't shut combo out any more than Fish decks already have the ability to.  Between two Massacres in the side, Mystical and Vampiric Tutor, it won't be hard to find and resolve it.  If you keep counters up, you won't be playing any threats.  This guy will want to see play with Cursecatcher probably.  If you mainboard this guy, it'll suck hard against Workshop Aggro, Fish decks with bigger finishers like Tarmogoyf and Oath.  It may be better as a sideboard card.  It seems like mono-blue style decks are gaining in popularity and it could be strong against them, though. 

It may be weak against Engineered Explosives.  Fish decks have traditionally run Null Rod though so it may not be a big deal. 

Sideboard?  This is the best 2/2 bear Fish has.  Sure it can be dealt with.  Of course, Tutor -> Bounce/Kill/Whatever takes 2 turns.  Hence, you'll always be able to see the play coming, so you shouldn't waste the counter anyways.  Even though it doesn't do much in some match-ups, it's not like a Fish deck was planning on Storming anyways.  So it's no more dead than any other 2/2 bear.

Also can work nicely with Ninja and Standstill, if you want to go that route.
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2008, 07:02:03 pm »

Hey, I agree it's good but there's a lot of matchups it may not be as successful against as people think it will be.  Decks that don't necessarily need to play more than one spell a turn, like Slaver and Bomberman, can continue to make incremental gains with Goblin Welder abilities or artifacts that work around the creature or destroy it altogether.  Fish with "better" creatures like Tarmogoyf well be hard to address and this card doesn't inhibit Workshop decks in any way.  I'm definitely not saying it's a bad card or anything.  I'm just implying that it might not be the card that makes Fish a real contender.  I suggested it might be best in the sideboard because the matchups it really shines in are against the storm combo decks. 
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nineisnoone
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2008, 07:51:22 pm »

It still stops FoW.  And hinders Duress.  And there's nothing like an un-counterable Misdirection on Ancestral Recall...

I don't know if it makes Fish a contender. Shards seems like it's going to be a big impact on Vintage.  But W/x Fish starts with 4x of these imo.
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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2008, 03:07:49 am »

Combo can play Massacre to beat this guy.  If you play a spell, you're screwed 'cause you can't even counter the Massacre.  You'll most definitely be playing some Plains if this guy's resolving so combo won't have to Ritual into it.  It is strong but it won't shut combo out any more than Fish decks already have the ability to.  Between two Massacres in the side, Mystical and Vampiric Tutor, it won't be hard to find and resolve it.  If you keep counters up, you won't be playing any threats. 

Massacre is a sorcery.
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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2008, 11:06:17 am »

also, if you have a counter up, why would you play ANY spell (against storm) after this hit the table? I mean, if they don't play spells like tinker/massacre, nothing can happen to you. Just turn them (or even just him) sideways, play lands and say go. If the big threat is coming, you still have a split second counter. If not, well, you win.
Mistakes players make when this or arcane lab are on the table are: playing a spell when your opponent hasn't yet this turn.
Feel free to drop a null rod when he's out though, or a sensei's top.

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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2008, 02:17:44 pm »

With this card and Vectis Silencers, there might be enough quality cards to do a straight W/B aggro-control deck in Vintage. Not sure about a list, but you'd start with the 8 Duress effects, this guy, Vectis Silencers, Kataki, Jotun Grunt, Dark Confidant for card draw, and if you need additional card draw there's always Night's Whisper or Augury Adept. Null Rod could also go in the deck, and possibly Sinkhole of Hymn to Tourach. You destroy their hand with discard and then your utility creature effects prevent them from abusing any bombs they topdeck.
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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2008, 02:21:07 pm »

With this card and Vectis Silencers, there might be enough quality cards to do a straight W/B aggro-control deck in Vintage. Not sure about a list, but you'd start with the 8 Duress effects, this guy, Vectis Silencers, Kataki, Jotun Grunt, Dark Confidant for card draw, and if you need additional card draw there's always Night's Whisper or Augury Adept. Null Rod could also go in the deck, and possibly Sinkhole of Hymn to Tourach. You destroy their hand with discard and then your utility creature effects prevent them from abusing any bombs they topdeck.

in that vein confidant plays very nicely with chains of mephistopheles.
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« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2008, 04:12:42 pm »

What are Vectis Silencers? Iīm looking for that card and i canīt find it anywhere.

I think it could be a very playable deck because two color can fill the bad things of the other. And you can vindicate !!!!!!!

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nineisnoone
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« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2008, 04:13:34 pm »

With this card and Vectis Silencers, there might be enough quality cards to do a straight W/B aggro-control deck in Vintage. Not sure about a list, but you'd start with the 8 Duress effects, this guy, Vectis Silencers, Kataki, Jotun Grunt, Dark Confidant for card draw, and if you need additional card draw there's always Night's Whisper or Augury Adept. Null Rod could also go in the deck, and possibly Sinkhole of Hymn to Tourach. You destroy their hand with discard and then your utility creature effects prevent them from abusing any bombs they topdeck.

I don't think Duress effects work well with Ethersworn Canonist, since you basically give them their 2nd best spell for the turn.  FoW is much better.  However, I think Abeyance could be an interesting fit.  Play it on their upkeep, keep them off sorceries.  It also cantrips, so you don't lose anything card advantage.  

Vectis is another spoiled card for Alara.  BW 2/2 remove a nonland card from opponent's hand.  Forget if it's reveal or if it's name, but I believe it's name.
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« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2008, 04:28:53 pm »

This seems like it would be a good addition to a dawn of the dead type deck. Since the deck plays bazaar and zombiefest, there are a lot of things that you could do with one spell per turn. I just can't figure out if it should be bgw or 5 color, because cursecatcher, mogg fanatic, and hide/seek are all really good.
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