[Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays - Unrestricted Vintage, a Magical Experim

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16641_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Unrestricted_Vintage_A_Magical_Experiment.html

Editorial Blurb:

Monday, November 3rd - As a strategic exercise, and as a response to an enquiring reader, Stephen Menendian has turned his eye to a theoretical Vintage format in which no card is restricted! He examines the decks he feels would be the most broken in this most broken of formats, and investigates the lessons they teach the regular Vintage format…

[madlucas]

Useless...

Constructive criticism is welcome on TMD, but a comment like this, with no reasoning or explanation, is spam at best and a flame at worst. Future posts of this nature will lead to Full Warnings being issued.
-Godder

[xycsoscyx]

I think it's interesting, but I just got back from a 4 day trip to Houston, so my mind is kinda dead.  More later...

[zeus-online]

Just curious, was contract from below allowed aswell?

/Zeus

[LordHomerCat]

Just curious, was contract from below allowed aswell?

/Zeus

Negative.  Everything is unrestricted, but Banned cards are still Banned, so no Contract, Chaos Orb, etc.

[Ulthrion]

Useless...

I don't have premium, but in theory such an article could be both very interesting and very useful. Personally, I would find it interesting to see what strategies would be superior as so many decks would get a boost in power from this. I also think that this sort of thing is a useful exercise because it gives you a chance to look at restrictions in a fresh way. Restrictions are largely dependant on the general metagame state over a certain period of time, which itself is a result of the restricted list. Since the two are dependant on eachother it is not unlikely that if the early restrictions would be done differently, the meta would have evolved differently, and we would now have a completely different metagame, and maybe even different restriction criteria.

Like I said, I have no premium, so I don't know which parts are covered in this article. But even if it just focuses on playing a bunch of extremely broken matches, I think it would be a pretty fun read.

Just wanted to say that I appreciate the more experimental approach of articles and look forward to reading them in three months time.

[Smmenen]

Useless...

I don't have premium, but in theory such an article could be both very interesting and very useful. Personally, I would find it interesting to see what strategies would be superior as so many decks would get a boost in power from this. I also think that this sort of thing is a useful exercise because it gives you a chance to look at restrictions in a fresh way. Restrictions are largely dependant on the general metagame state over a certain period of time, which itself is a result of the restricted list. Since the two are dependant on eachother it is not unlikely that if the early restrictions would be done differently, the meta would have evolved differently, and we would now have a completely different metagame, and maybe even different restriction criteria.

Very, very well put.   This is it exactly.   

[Eastman]

Useless...

I don't have premium, but in theory such an article could be both very interesting and very useful. Personally, I would find it interesting to see what strategies would be superior as so many decks would get a boost in power from this. I also think that this sort of thing is a useful exercise because it gives you a chance to look at restrictions in a fresh way. Restrictions are largely dependant on the general metagame state over a certain period of time, which itself is a result of the restricted list. Since the two are dependant on eachother it is not unlikely that if the early restrictions would be done differently, the meta would have evolved differently, and we would now have a completely different metagame, and maybe even different restriction criteria.

Very well put.  This is it exactly.

Right, it would be interesting to see, in theory.  Unfortunately no individual could plausibly figure out what the meta would look like in advance.  We'd need to see several months of tournaments to find out how it develops.  Trying to guess would just be an exercise in hubris I think. 


Gives me an interesting idea though - wouldn't it be fun to have a fake tourney with TMD peeps in this format? 

[Anusien]

Pretty interesting.  I wonder if some sort of deck more like TPS than Long would be the foil to the Stax decks.

[Smmenen]

Useless...

I don't have premium, but in theory such an article could be both very interesting and very useful. Personally, I would find it interesting to see what strategies would be superior as so many decks would get a boost in power from this. I also think that this sort of thing is a useful exercise because it gives you a chance to look at restrictions in a fresh way. Restrictions are largely dependant on the general metagame state over a certain period of time, which itself is a result of the restricted list. Since the two are dependant on eachother it is not unlikely that if the early restrictions would be done differently, the meta would have evolved differently, and we would now have a completely different metagame, and maybe even different restriction criteria.

Very well put.  This is it exactly.

Right, it would be interesting to see, in theory.  Unfortunately no individual could plausibly figure out what the meta would look like in advance.  We'd need to see several months of tournaments to find out how it develops.  Trying to guess would just be an exercise in hubris I think. 


Gives me an interesting idea though - wouldn't it be fun to have a fake tourney with TMD peeps in this format? 

You are absolutely right that no individual could figure out what a metagame would look like in advance, since by definition, metagames are a constellation of many decision makers selecting decks over time.    However, it doesn’t follow that an attempt to imagine what a metagame might look by looking at what decks are possible and then tweaking decks to compete against other imagined decks is only an exercise in hubris.   Although it might be that this is an exercise in hubris, there are still other things that can be gleamed and insights to be had, and hopefully, an entertaining read as well. 

[Hellsing293]

I'm not a premium subscriber, or a vintage expert, but I think that blue would become an almost auto-include in every deck (more than it is now).  I think the meta game would be crazy storm builds vs. anti storm builds.  Storm decks can break so many of the restricted spells and when in quantities of 4, I don't think that any deck that isn't specifically built to beat storm would have a chance.

[Duncan]

I find it interesting to see that there is no pure control deck in Unrestricted Vintage. Just Aggro, Prison and Combo.

It's quite logical, since most control decks lean somewhat on drains and drains are better in a slower format, but I still find it interesting.

How would 4-Time Walk MaskNought fare in such a metagame? Something along the lines of this:

3 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
4 Time Walk
4 Ancestral Recall
3 Brainstorm
4 Demonic Tutor
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Black Lotus
4 Mox Jet
4 Mox Sapphire
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta

It is a two card combo like flash but it has the added option of taking lots of turns with will/time walk before the opponent even gets a turn. Maybe that this Time Walk idea could be even better abused in some other sort of deck.

[GrandpaBelcher]

For the Belcher list, I think you just make it focus on unrestricted Channel, which is certainly one of the more broken cards ever in terms of resource conversion.  I would propose something like the following list and plan on mulling to a castable Channel and one or more things to play off it.  That way you don't have to worry about double colors in things like Tendrils or Mind's Desire.

4 Black Lotus
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Mox Emerald
4 Mox Jet
4 Mox Ruby
4 Mox Sapphire

4 Channel
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Memory Jar
4 Lich's Mirror
4 Ancestral Recall
4 Timetwister
4 Wheel of Fortune

[Smmenen]

For the Belcher list, I think you just make it focus on unrestricted Channel, which is certainly one of the more broken cards ever in terms of resource conversion.  I would propose something like the following list and plan on mulling to a castable Channel and one or more things to play off it.  That way you don't have to worry about double colors in things like Tendrils or Mind's Desire.

4 Black Lotus
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Mox Emerald
4 Mox Jet
4 Mox Ruby
4 Mox Sapphire

4 Channel
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Memory Jar
4 Lich's Mirror
4 Ancestral Recall
4 Timetwister
4 Wheel of Fortune

That looks better, but I would also play LED.  It's one of the best cards in the format. 

I find it interesting to see that there is no pure control deck in Unrestricted Vintage. Just Aggro, Prison and Combo.

I would narrow it down to Prison v. Combo, actually.   Although perhaps "prison" here is just another form of control, it's hard to say.   The goblins deck I came up with here is actually just a glorified prison deck that seemed to have the fastest clock and the most answers.   

It's quite logical, since most control decks lean somewhat on drains and drains are better in a slower format, but I still find it interesting.

How would 4-Time Walk MaskNought fare in such a metagame? Something along the lines of this:

3 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
4 Time Walk
4 Ancestral Recall
3 Brainstorm
4 Demonic Tutor
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Black Lotus
4 Mox Jet
4 Mox Sapphire
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta

It is a two card combo like flash but it has the added option of taking lots of turns with will/time walk before the opponent even gets a turn. Maybe that this Time Walk idea could be even better abused in some other sort of deck.

This deck almost certainly needs Gemstone Caverns to compete. 

[Twaun007]

Imagine Unrestricted Bill Dredgington a.k.a. Billy D.

4 Black Lotus
4 Mox Sapphire
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Breakthrough
4 Ancestral Recall
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Street Wraith
4 Unmask
4 Narcomoeba
2 Flame-Kin Zealot

This format is awesome!

[Mr. Type 4]

I think the unrestricted Ichorid list should prob try to run Chalice somehow, as Chalice beats the hell out of most of these Mox abusing monstrosities. 

Nat's Belcher list looks pretty savage, 4x Memory Jar for sure.

[Smmenen]

Needs more Force!

[Twaun007]

I think the unrestricted Ichorid list should prob try to run Chalice somehow, as Chalice beats the hell out of most of these Mox abusing monstrosities.

Good call Sculptini. I could probably just cut the Ichorids since I plan on turn 1-ing the crap out of my opponent. Na... then I would lose to Trinisphere.dec. Perhaps Street Wraith is the card to get rid of?

[sundering jerk]

Well this would definitely make misdirection a four of. My friends and I used to play this on workstation but we had storm banned because their were only two decks, storm and antistorm.

[Smmenen]

Well this would definitely make misdirection a four of. My friends and I used to play this on workstation but we had storm banned because their were only two decks, storm and antistorm.

 In some of these decks, Ancestrals are just glorified Brainstorms, and the heavy presence of multiple Misd makes Ancestral somewhat risky.   

The key to the format is really chalice, as someone else pointed out.   Since artifact mana is the main mana source, every other deck is going to shut the other one out with chalice.  That means that finding ways to not lose on the draw is at a premium, and while Misd helps, it's not even close to enough.  I'm guessing that cards like Gemsone Caverns are more important than Misd.

[Duncan]

I fail to see why you are such a huge fan of Gemstone Caverns.

[Smmenen]

In order to win matches in this format, you have to find a way to win games on the draw.  Decks like Unrestricted Long have a 100% turn one goldfish rate.  They can sometimes even win through Force of Will.   If you lose the die roll, you must have a way to stop them from winning.  Gemstone Caverns is another Force of Will effect.  It can be used to play cards like Orim's Chant, Stifle, Etc. 

[Suicideking]

In order to win matches in this format, you have to find a way to win games on the draw.  Decks like Unrestricted Long have a 100% turn one goldfish rate.  They can sometimes even win through Force of Will.   If you lose the die roll, you must have a way to stop them from winning.  Gemstone Caverns is another Force of Will effect.  It can be used to play cards like Orim's Chant, Stifle, Etc. 

It couldn't be a 100%.  Im sure its an insane number, but theres always the chance of getting 4 lotus and 3 mox.  However unlikely, I don't think theres a way you could ever get a 100% goldfish rate.

[Lou]

In order to win matches in this format, you have to find a way to win games on the draw.  Decks like Unrestricted Long have a 100% turn one goldfish rate.  They can sometimes even win through Force of Will.   If you lose the die roll, you must have a way to stop them from winning.  Gemstone Caverns is another Force of Will effect.  It can be used to play cards like Orim's Chant, Stifle, Etc. 

It couldn't be a 100%.  Im sure its an insane number, but theres always the chance of getting 4 lotus and 3 mox.  However unlikely, I don't think theres a way you could ever get a 100% goldfish rate.

You mulligan that 7 to see a fresh 6.

[TopSecret]

Maybe that this Time Walk idea could be even better abused in some other sort of deck.

Perhaps some really odd form of Sex.dec
with 4 Regrowth and 4 Timewalk,
or a deck with 4 Joten Grunt, 4 Consultation, and 4 Timewalk
for the recurring extra turns?

I'm thinking that some turbo-Parfait-style deck could be sweet.
'Has the potential to kick the crap out of combo with Ethersworn Canonist, Chalice, and other hate,
while not scooping to stax or aggro outright.
Unrestricted Balance, anyone? Dumping Moxes to pwn on the first turn! It's a one card combo!

4 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Balance
4 Ancestral Recall

4 Force of Will
4 Repeal
4 Orim's Chant ('Could be Argivian Find, Time Walk, or Misdirection. 'Depends on the metagame.)

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Aura of Silence

4 Street Wraith

4 Black Lotus
4 Mox Pearl
4 Mox Sapphire
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
4 Gemstone Cavern

I would've put Scroll Rack and Land Tax into it,
but I think the blue splash is worth it, and it wouldn't be as consistent with the addition of basics.

... But of course, the Legacy port of 43-Land would be the best deck.
It has 4 Fastbond!

[Smmenen]

Unrestricted Balance, anyone?

It's really not that good.   If you look at the decks I developed, it should be obvious why.

[Suicideking]

In order to win matches in this format, you have to find a way to win games on the draw.  Decks like Unrestricted Long have a 100% turn one goldfish rate.  They can sometimes even win through Force of Will.   If you lose the die roll, you must have a way to stop them from winning.  Gemstone Caverns is another Force of Will effect.  It can be used to play cards like Orim's Chant, Stifle, Etc. 

It couldn't be a 100%.  Im sure its an insane number, but theres always the chance of getting 4 lotus and 3 mox.  However unlikely, I don't think theres a way you could ever get a 100% goldfish rate.

You mulligan that 7 to see a fresh 6.

Well theres still a fairly decent chance you could end up with hands that are all gas and yawg wills and not a win condition.  Again, I'd say its not a high percentage but its still enough to keep you from ever getting a 100% turn one kill rate.

[LordHomerCat]

But like, you need to keep getting those hands over and over even after mulligan-ing.  Sure, it's not going to ACTUALLY be 100%, because there is always the statistically unlikely event that you never draw a non-mana card even after mulling and stuff like that, but in actuality its extremely rare that you can't just goldfish on turn 1 with the deck.

[Purple Hat]

I think you could build a control deck, like:
4 force
4 leyline
4 chant
4 stifle
4 tinker
4 plats
4 gemstone cavern
4 ancestral
moxes,lotuses, etc.

[Smmenen]

That's a good start to a control type list.   I think it needs something to play on caverns aside from stifle though