Fish meet Faeries

[Sean Ryan]

I originally posted this in the BUG Fish thread, but I was recommended to start a separate thread. 

I have had an affinity for Fish strategies for many years and with Tezz on top Fish is ready to make a splash.  I had been playing the BUG version over UW which always felt weaker and found it to have the best match against Drains and Rituals, but would be unable to beat the remaining tier two strategies that fill the first few rounds.  So I've been thinking how to improve my bad match ups while still retaining the decks strengths against Drains and Storm combo.  I think the answer may be to borrow a page from the Faeries play book.

Interestingly enough I got here by trying to splash white to fight the second tier decks. But trying to add a fourth color was just too much strain on the mana base. The deck also needed the blue dorks to keep enough cards for Force and a way to deal with a resolved colossus besides the lone echoing truth.  Cursecatcher always felt suboptimal but I wanted another blue creature that disrupts which got me thinking about the Fae.  I realized I could accomplish these goals with the Faeries and Edict as a replacement for StP.  While I know Edict is not StP, I strongly believe Fish needs an answer to an all-in Tinker Colossus.

The Faeries package gives you Sprite, Clique, and Bitterblossom.  Cards I cut form the standard BUG Fish deck are: Cursecatcher, Negate, and Trygon Predator.   

If I take nothing else from this experiment it's that Clique is amazing and I would throw him in every Fish deck I play from now on regardless of the other faerie cards. 


Fish meets Faeries

4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Confidant
4 Goyf
2 Vendillion Clique

4 Rod
4 Duress
3 Bitterblossom
3 Diabolic Edict
4 FoW
3 Stifle/Daze???
3 Recall/Walk/Brainstorm

22 Mana Sources
4 MoxLotus
5 Strip/Waste
3 Sea
2 Trop
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
5 Fetch

SB
6 Ichorid Hate
4 Krosan Grip
3 Jitte
2 open slots


By making these changes I improve my matches against the 2nd tier while giving up very little against Drains and Rituals.  My mirror match and the Workshop match improve significantly.  Bitterblossom is an absolute house here.  With both KGrip and Edict my Oath match is also improved.  I need to play more games against Tezz and TPS to see if I'm giving up too much but I doubt it as the deck retains all of it's central cards while giving up things that work on the edges in these match ups.

This concept is still in its infancy but is looks promising.  Your input is appreciated.
.
Thanks
Sean   

[swawagon]

16 cards is a little light for Force of Will. To up the Blue count I'd like to see more Mana Leak, probably in place of the Diabolic Edict. Nothing against Edict I like them plenty and think they are probably better now then ever (Colossus and only Colossus in the creature of choice in many TEZ decks.)

I do like Clique a lot also. They cast something you Clique in response see their hand and remove their backup and it helps decide if you want to use your Force or not. Also I use Clique on myself often when I have Null Rod down and a Mox in hand.

I have no idea to evaluate Bitterblossom but with Sprite I suspect it's pretty good.

[Troy_Costisick]

16 cards is a little light for Force of Will. To up the Blue count I'd like to see more Mana Leak, probably in place of the Diabolic Edict. Nothing against Edict I like them plenty and think they are probably better now then ever (Colossus and only Colossus in the creature of choice in many TEZ decks.)

Or, you can use Curfew.  It will up your blue count, bounce a fattie like DSC or Progenitus, and give you a change to reuse your Sprites and Cliques all for .  I don't know if it would be great, but it might work.

Peace,

-Troy

[Sean Ryan]

The problem with cards like Curfew is that they are too narrow.  You have an answer to a resolved Colossus, but a card thats crap against everything else.

16 blue cards is definitely the minimum.  I've also considered Sower of Temptation, 2 Echoing Truth, and a Merchant Scroll in the place of the Edicts   

[Troy_Costisick]

The problem with cards like Curfew is that they are too narrow.  You have an answer to a resolved Colossus, but a card thats crap against everything else.

I don't see how it's any more narrow than Diabolic Edict, which was the card I was comparing it to.  In fact, I'd call it superior against DSC and Progenitus since it puts them in hand rather than letting the opponent shuffle them back into their deck.  I definately agree there are better spells out there, but I was under the impression we were just discussing how to deal with hard to kill creatures.

I've also considered Sower of Temptation, 2 Echoing Truth, and a Merchant Scroll in the place of the Edicts 

That would definately give the deck more versatility against a variety of threats.  How do you feel about Wipe Away?

[neotrophy]

Edict hits aggro, already a stupidly hard matchup.  Not hard, but it hits it, and maintains card parity.  Curfew does precisely nothing vs aggro.  Edict also helps vs other fish decks, particularly in these days where fish decks are more creature light than they have been in the past.

That said, I do think that the idea of reducing the Edicts to up the blue count has merit, and bounce is probably the way to go.  Not having tested it, Bitterblossom seems a little sluggish for Vintage, but I'd want to see it in action before I said "trim it".  Spellstutter Sprite seems like it could be pretty good without the assistance.

It's funny, I feel like this probably belongs in the improvement forum, but I also think that there are some ideas here, Vendillion Clique in particular, that deserve a place on the serious and cutting edge side of TMD.

[Troy_Costisick]

Curfew does precisely nothing vs aggro.

Yeah... except bounce an attacker during combat, pitch to Force of Will if need be, and allow you to replay your creatures with a CIP effect.  Good point.  It does precisely nothing.

Now honestly, I'm not advocating Curfew as a premier card of choice.  It clearly isn't.  But saying it does precisely nothing is laughable and demonstrably false.  The card does have some deck design potential and a lot more synergy with CIP creatures than Edict.  And I'll bang the DSC/Prog drum again and note that by bouncing them, you prevent your oppent from shuffling them back into his deck.

[neotrophy]

I did actually completely forget about the effect on your own fae.  I don't believe that bouncing an attacker is worth the cost of a card in most circumstances, and Evermind can pitch to Force.  If you allow a little margin for random interactions and discount the CiP effects (which you shouldn't, but oh well), then I'll stand by my statement

My major point is that Edict is far more generally applicable than Curfew.  I'm also not saying that we should discount Curfew entirely, but if your meta includes a significant aggro proportion, you should run Diabolic Edict and give it some spines to contend with.  If you think the chances of aggro are low enough that you can afford to roll over and present a soft underbelly to it, then play the card that costs half as much, pitches to Force and is a very least Edict's equal versus Colossus and Oath creatures.

[John Jones]

The deck seems to stretch for goyf, which I really don't think he even belongs in the deck. What you are trying to do is play a creature control deck that wins over time. While goyf helps you win faster, I don't think it is worth the green when there are cards in blue and black that will help the stragety more. The first two that come to mind are
1) Scion of Oona
2) Cursecatcher

1) Since you already run bitterblossom getting 2-3 tokens then making them all 2/2's is kinda huge. Also, in response to stuff like echoing truth you can be like FLASH... AaaHaaaa... and protect your guys.

2) Cursecatcher seems decent because you already run 5 wastes and null rods so it helps with your mana denial plan.

As for Edict, I personally think it could be something better but I am not sure what. Maybe either Echoing truth? I don't know.

Also, I think you might want to run 1-2 crucible of worlds. I personally really like it when I am trying to go the mana denial package. Some games Strip lock is just that good.
Another thing I would personally do is add a tinker but instead of getting colossus get inkwell levithan or plats.

[Sean Ryan]

The deck seems to stretch for goyf, which I really don't think he even belongs in the deck. What you are trying to do is play a creature control deck that wins over time. While goyf helps you win faster, I don't think it is worth the green when there are cards in blue and black that will help the stragety more. The first two that come to mind are
1) Scion of Oona
2) Cursecatcher

1) Since you already run bitterblossom getting 2-3 tokens then making them all 2/2's is kinda huge. Also, in response to stuff like echoing truth you can be like FLASH... AaaHaaaa... and protect your guys.

2) Cursecatcher seems decent because you already run 5 wastes and null rods so it helps with your mana denial plan.

As for Edict, I personally think it could be something better but I am not sure what. Maybe either Echoing truth? I don't know.

Also, I think you might want to run 1-2 crucible of worlds. I personally really like it when I am trying to go the mana denial package. Some games Strip lock is just that good.
Another thing I would personally do is add a tinker but instead of getting colossus get inkwell levithan or plats.

I've been considering cutting green, but Goyf provides a clock and Krosan Grip gives you game against Oath, an otherwise weak match up.  In Vintage we don't have the luxury of winning over time like the extended faeries.  Goyf helps to win through a narrow window of disruption without giving your opponent the opportunity to come back with a bomb.  That being said I am certainly open to testing other options, but that is my initial reaction.

I don't there is enough removal to warrant Scion of the Oona.  I also don't think my Faeries count is high enough.

I'm familiar with Cursecatcher just trying different things out at the moment.  I've been back and fourth with this guy and still unsure whether I prefer him or Daze.       

The Edicts are an attempt at replacing StP, but they are definitely soft.  I may be able to go with some bounce and a Sower instead since Bitterblossom helps so much against aggro.  White is very attractive with StP and Canonist, possibly better than green.

Crucible is good against anything resembling the mirror, or Shops, but other than that it is too cumbersome, and requires you find the lone Strip to really pay off.

I'm not running enough artifacts for Tinker, and I can't afford for anything fat to get stuck in my hand

[ErkBek]

You should consider Waterfront Bouncer over the Edicts. Bouncer gives you an answer to DSC, is amazing in fish mirrors, enables soft locks with Sprite/Vendillion, and he's blue.

You should also look into running Voidmage Prodigy over Bitterblossom. I understand the Blossom makes Sprite a hard counter, but so does Voidmage. Blossom is conditionally good by itself, but Voidmage is always decent and often times game breaking.

I do worry about your 2 drop slot being overflowed. You're only 1-costers in the deck appears to be 4x Duress and 3x Stifles (these seem better than daze for your list). I think you need to consider playing 3 Thoughtseizes so your consistently doing something on turn 1 to disrupt your opponent or to set yourself up for the rest of the game. Plus they allow you to remove Mana Drains  turn 1 or minimize their damage by taking what they'd be draining into.

Lastly, is 22 mana enough? I felt BUG's 23 mana with 5 strips was extremely tight. I'd recommend the following changes:

-3 Edit
-3 Bitterblossom
-2 Stifle (leave 1 random Stifle in the deck)
-1 Spellstutter Sprite

+3 Waterfront Bouncer
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Voidmage
+1 Fetchland

If you're willing to cut Goyfs and Grips for Ninjas and Snares you could make the deck more of an URBana style. 

[Stormanimagus]

You should consider Waterfront Bouncer over the Edicts. Bouncer gives you an answer to DSC, is amazing in fish mirrors, enables soft locks with Sprite/Vendillion, and he's blue.

You should also look into running Voidmage Prodigy over Bitterblossom. I understand the Blossom makes Sprite a hard counter, but so does Voidmage. Blossom is conditionally good by itself, but Voidmage is always decent and often times game breaking.

I do worry about your 2 drop slot being overflowed. You're only 1-costers in the deck appears to be 4x Duress and 3x Stifles (these seem better than daze for your list). I think you need to consider playing 3 Thoughtseizes so your consistently doing something on turn 1 to disrupt your opponent or to set yourself up for the rest of the game. Lastly, they allow you to remove Mana Drains or minimize their damage.

Lastly, is 22 mana enough? I felt BUG's 23 mana with 5 strips was extremely tight. I'd recommend the following changes:

-3 Edit
-3 Bitterblossom
-2 Stifle (leave 1 random Stifle in the deck)
-1 Spellstutter Sprite

+3 Waterfront Bouncer
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Voidmage
+1 Fetchland

If you're willing to cut Goyfs and Grips for Ninjas and Snares you could make the deck more of an URBana style. 

What about just going straight UB for consistency and cut Red too.

Here's a list I've been tinkering with a bit. The big problem is that it doesn't really have a good answer to creatures.

Wizards

Land (17):
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library Of Alexandria

Artifacts (8):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
4 Null Rod

Creatures (18):
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Voidmage Prodigy
4 Dark Confidant
3 Augury Adept
4 Ninja Of The Deep Hours

Enchantments (3):
3 Bitterblossom

Instants (8):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Force Of Will

Sorceries (6):
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk

SB
3 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Stifle
2 Chain Of Vapor
3 Gate To Phyrexia
3 Relic Of Progenitus

[Troy_Costisick]

Have you thought about trying to squeeze in Chalice of the Void in that list?  You have just a few 1cc spells, so putting a CotV at 0 and 1 could be very strong plays for you. 

Just a thought

Peace,

-Troy

[Sean Ryan]

You should consider Waterfront Bouncer over the Edicts. Bouncer gives you an answer to DSC, is amazing in fish mirrors, enables soft locks with Sprite/Vendillion, and he's blue.

You should also look into running Voidmage Prodigy over Bitterblossom. I understand the Blossom makes Sprite a hard counter, but so does Voidmage. Blossom is conditionally good by itself, but Voidmage is always decent and often times game breaking.

I do worry about your 2 drop slot being overflowed. You're only 1-costers in the deck appears to be 4x Duress and 3x Stifles (these seem better than daze for your list). I think you need to consider playing 3 Thoughtseizes so your consistently doing something on turn 1 to disrupt your opponent or to set yourself up for the rest of the game. Plus they allow you to remove Mana Drains  turn 1 or minimize their damage by taking what they'd be draining into.

Lastly, is 22 mana enough? I felt BUG's 23 mana with 5 strips was extremely tight. I'd recommend the following changes:

-3 Edit
-3 Bitterblossom
-2 Stifle (leave 1 random Stifle in the deck)
-1 Spellstutter Sprite

+3 Waterfront Bouncer
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Voidmage
+1 Fetchland

If you're willing to cut Goyfs and Grips for Ninjas and Snares you could make the deck more of an URBana style. 

Excellent ideas.  I had completely forgotten about the Bouncer he is exactly what I was looking for. 

Your right about my curve.  I didn't have enough 1 drops.  Games where I could open with Duress or stifle into Rod or Confidant usually spelled GG.  I would like to run 7 Duress effects but managing my blue count for FoW is an issue.

On the subject of the Faeries.  Like I said before, Clique is amazing and I think he belongs in every Fish list now.  AS for the Sprites, they have been so-so.  When I can chain into them or have a Bitterblossom on the board they are amazing.  Bit when I am staring at an early tinker with the lone Sprite in hand I frown.  I have found that Bitterblossom is too slow for the Drain and Ritual match, but wins games against Stax and the mirror.  So I've decided to relegate 3 copies to the sideboard instead of the main deck.  Now there is even less reason to run the Sprites.

So does this mean the Faerie experiment was a loss?  Far from it.  Clique is my new MVP and I have a sideboard that improves my second tier match ups considerably with 6 anti-Ichorid cards, 3 KGrips, 3 Jitte, 3 Bitterblossom.

This returns the deck more closely to it's origins with a splash of Faerie tech and the addition of Waterfront Bouncer.  Cards like Voidmage Prodigy and Cursecatcher along with Stifle are all options that can be customizable.

 

[ErkBek]

So does this mean the Faerie experiment was a loss?  Far from it.  Clique is my new MVP and I have a sideboard that improves my second tier match ups considerably with 6 anti-Ichorid cards, 3 KGrips, 3 Jitte, 3 Bitterblossom.

So Clique is good, Sprite is bad. Are you saying play Clique in BUG fish?

[Stormanimagus]

He there guys. So I'm not sure if this deck belongs in this forum, but I had a cool 3-color fish deck that I really think could benefit from Vendilion Clique. It's an adaptation of an idea I had a while ago with Cold-Eyed Selkie.

Selkie-Strike

Land (18):
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library Of Alexandria

Artifacts (9):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
4 Null Rod

Creatures (18):
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Meddling Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Vendilion Clique

Enchantments (3):
3 Seal Of Primodium

Instants (11):
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force Of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Stifle

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

SB
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
3 Trygon Predator
4 Wheel Of Sun And Moon
4 Swords To Plowshares

[Sean Ryan]

So does this mean the Faerie experiment was a loss?  Far from it.  Clique is my new MVP and I have a sideboard that improves my second tier match ups considerably with 6 anti-Ichorid cards, 3 KGrips, 3 Jitte, 3 Bitterblossom.

So Clique is good, Sprite is bad. Are you saying play Clique in BUG fish?

Basically.  In addition, Bitterblossom is a great sideboard option that helps your soft match ups (Stax and other aggro decks).  I also think Bouncer should be added to provide more consistency against Tinker/DSC.

[Vegeta2711]

Clique is soooo ridiculously good. Also the deck from the OP split finals at our local Vintage 1k yesterday. Other than having 0 game against Ichorid unless you go Relic - Relic, the deck seems really awesome against other Fish and blue decks.

Also, Bouncer is terrible. Oath is going to be running Prog now and Inkwell Leviathan is going to be the main Tinker target for anyone living in a Fish infested metagame.

[Sean Ryan]

Clique is soooo ridiculously good. Also the deck from the OP split finals at our local Vintage 1k yesterday. Other than having 0 game against Ichorid unless you go Relic - Relic, the deck seems really awesome against other Fish and blue decks.

Also, Bouncer is terrible. Oath is going to be running Prog now and Inkwell Leviathan is going to be the main Tinker target for anyone living in a Fish infested metagame.

Just so there's no confusion...If your Fish deck is not running Clique it's probably wrong.

Damn!  Your right about Bouncer.  I haven't played against Progentius or Leviathan yet, but yet is the key word.  Any thoughts on what to do about those cards?

 

[ErkBek]

Bouncer didn't work so well in BUG Fish. Here's what I had to say about him:

I started off with a few Waterfront Bouncers and Ninja of the Deep hours in the deck. Ninja was just terrible. I rarely ever would slide him into play early and pulling my other creatures out of play was painful especially since Cursecatcher was my only 1 drop.

With Ninja leaving the deck, I wasn't satisfied with Waterfront Bouncer. Bouncer is amazing in URBana fish because he constantly keeps the board clear so your Ninja's and 1/1's can connect. Not only are your guys connecting, but your opponent is having to invest mana in recasting their guys. This is pretty much the definition of tempo. Also, because of URBana's 4 Ninja + 4 Confidant based draw you're almost always have a card you're fine with dumping to bounce their guy. BUG fish didn't have all this going for it, thus it wasn't able to utilize Bouncer very well.

The quantity of cards that URBana drew made Bouncer good. Sometimes he was a vanilla 1/1 that enabled Ninja, other times I'd activate him 2-4 times over the course of a game. I could afford to have him be either given the quantity of cards the deck drew. Since BUG doesn't have URBana's draw engine, he wasn't working out. Vamp/Scroll/Echoing Truth tested much better.


I could definitely see Clique rounding out BUG's creature base (I was very happy with him in UR Landstill). Having Flash on the 3 mana creature is huge since you can leave up Stifle or Negate/Leak. Playing Clique on the opponent's end step can also play out as functionally having haste. I think he'll end up having great synergy with Cursecatcher too, since opponents are forced to leave their critical spells in hand just a little longer than normal.

[Sean Ryan]

Bouncer didn't work so well in BUG Fish. Here's what I had to say about him:

I started off with a few Waterfront Bouncers and Ninja of the Deep hours in the deck. Ninja was just terrible. I rarely ever would slide him into play early and pulling my other creatures out of play was painful especially since Cursecatcher was my only 1 drop.

With Ninja leaving the deck, I wasn't satisfied with Waterfront Bouncer. Bouncer is amazing in URBana fish because he constantly keeps the board clear so your Ninja's and 1/1's can connect. Not only are your guys connecting, but your opponent is having to invest mana in recasting their guys. This is pretty much the definition of tempo. Also, because of URBana's 4 Ninja + 4 Confidant based draw you're almost always have a card you're fine with dumping to bounce their guy. BUG fish didn't have all this going for it, thus it wasn't able to utilize Bouncer very well.

The quantity of cards that URBana drew made Bouncer good. Sometimes he was a vanilla 1/1 that enabled Ninja, other times I'd activate him 2-4 times over the course of a game. I could afford to have him be either given the quantity of cards the deck drew. Since BUG doesn't have URBana's draw engine, he wasn't working out. Vamp/Scroll/Echoing Truth tested much better.


I could definitely see Clique rounding out BUG's creature base (I was very happy with him in UR Landstill). Having Flash on the 3 mana creature is huge since you can leave up Stifle or Negate/Leak. Playing Clique on the opponent's end step can also play out as functionally having haste. I think he'll end up having great synergy with Cursecatcher too, since opponents are forced to leave their critical spells in hand just a little longer than normal.

Thanks for the input on Bouncer.

What are your thoughts on Bitterblossom as a sideboard card?

[ErkBek]

Thanks for the input on Bouncer.

What are your thoughts on Bitterblossom as a sideboard card?

It seems alright. I ran it in URBana's sideboard for a little while, but never once got to cast it. If you run BB you run Jitte too.

I haven't played t1 for at least 3-4 months now, so I'm a little uncertain about what the current meta looks like.

[tomjoad]

I split the finals (as mentioned by Josh above) of a 27 person tourney with the exact deck from the 1st post yesterday (I went with Stifles over Daze), and I thought I'd share a few thoughts.

1) The Spellstutter Sprites were underwhelming. I countered a Rebuild with one. I flashed one in so I could deal the last point against a BUG Fish deck. That was pretty much all they did. If you don't have a Blossom down, they just don't counter very much. If Brainstorm or Ponder were unrestricted this would probably be a more exciting card.

2) Vendilion Clique is amazing. That is so easy to discover that it suggests conspicuousness or little need for perspicacity in the observer.

3) This deck seems to be very good against the more standard BUG decks. You have Edict and guys with evasion in the main. Trygon Predator is pretty good against you, but it's easy enough to deal with. They have Echoing Truth and maybe Smother as removal. Smother doesn't hit Sower of Temptation, which should be in the board if you expect any number of opposing Fish decks (I wanted a 3rd all day).

4) I only got one early Blossom. My opponent had mulliganed to 5 and was mana screwed, so it wasn't really relevant, as I almost could not lose that game. Therefore, I'm not really sure how good or bad it plays in this deck. It draws a lot of FoW's, and there is some value in that. It seemed, and this just dawned on me, that the players who never play Standard or Extended weren't nearly as concerned about Blossom as the players who keep up-to-date on the other formats.

Overall, the deck was very fun to play and can do some powerful things. I wanted the Sprites to be Negates or Mana Leaks all day, but that is a limited sample size, so I wouldn't be too hasty in cutting them altogether.

[John Jones]

Have you thought about using skullclamp and bitterblossom as a draw engine?

[Vegeta2711]

Have you thought about using skullclamp and bitterblossom as a draw engine?

In a null rod deck? That seems... bad, to say the least.

[Sean Ryan]

I split the finals (as mentioned by Josh above) of a 27 person tourney with the exact deck from the 1st post yesterday (I went with Stifles over Daze), and I thought I'd share a few thoughts.

1) The Spellstutter Sprites were underwhelming. I countered a Rebuild with one. I flashed one in so I could deal the last point against a BUG Fish deck. That was pretty much all they did. If you don't have a Blossom down, they just don't counter very much. If Brainstorm or Ponder were unrestricted this would probably be a more exciting card.

2) Vendilion Clique is amazing. That is so easy to discover that it suggests conspicuousness or little need for perspicacity in the observer.

3) This deck seems to be very good against the more standard BUG decks. You have Edict and guys with evasion in the main. Trygon Predator is pretty good against you, but it's easy enough to deal with. They have Echoing Truth and maybe Smother as removal. Smother doesn't hit Sower of Temptation, which should be in the board if you expect any number of opposing Fish decks (I wanted a 3rd all day).

4) I only got one early Blossom. My opponent had mulliganed to 5 and was mana screwed, so it wasn't really relevant, as I almost could not lose that game. Therefore, I'm not really sure how good or bad it plays in this deck. It draws a lot of FoW's, and there is some value in that. It seemed, and this just dawned on me, that the players who never play Standard or Extended weren't nearly as concerned about Blossom as the players who keep up-to-date on the other formats.

Overall, the deck was very fun to play and can do some powerful things. I wanted the Sprites to be Negates or Mana Leaks all day, but that is a limited sample size, so I wouldn't be too hasty in cutting them altogether.

Congrats on your success!

I reached the same conclusion on Spellstutter Sprite.  The other issues I had with the original list was the lack of blue cards supporting Force of Will and not enough turn 1 plays.  This leads me to think that some combination of Cursecatchers and Stifles are necessary.  The other option is too ramp up on Duress/Thoughtseize while trying to maintain the blue count. 

What do you think about main decking two Sowers and moving the Bitterblossoms to the SB?  This would let you cut Edict as well, making sure you have access to some bounce.

Sean   

[tomjoad]

Congrats on your success!

I reached the same conclusion on Spellstutter Sprite.  The other issues I had with the original list was the lack of blue cards supporting Force of Will and not enough turn 1 plays.  This leads me to think that some combination of Cursecatchers and Stifles are necessary.  The other option is too ramp up on Duress/Thoughtseize while trying to maintain the blue count. 

What do you think about main decking two Sowers and moving the Bitterblossoms to the SB?  This would let you cut Edict as well, making sure you have access to some bounce.

Sean   

I'm not sure about main deck Sowers. There was only one Oath deck at the tournament I played in, and his main deck kill was Progenitus. Obviously, if you expect a lot of Fish and Tinker-->DSC, Sower is a fine choice. If you want to have any chance against Oath, I would think that Edict is better. I didn't face a single huge robot all day, though, so who knows.

As far as sideboard Blossoms go, I can't see that is a good option. I suppose if you decide to MD the Sowers, you could just switch them around...Still, if you don't think Blossom should be in the main, I would just want to cut them altogether.

Keeping in mind that I played against BUG Fish twice in the swiss, I would say that the Edicts were great though. Actually sending a creature to the graveyard, as well as having a way to deal with Progenitus if it had come up, was very valuable. When my Goyfs got bounced, it was bad for my tempo. Then they came back down and I won. When I dealt with the other guys Goyf (or Predator) it stayed dealt with. If you expect a lot of Fish, you could play Smother instead, and if you want bounce you can almost certainly make room for it, but I would be hesitant about cutting ways to actually kill creatures.

Also, you are absolutely right about the lack of support for Force of Will. I had 7 cards in hand at one point and had revealed a FoW on a Bob flip. Thankfully, my opponent didn't know I was holding 5 black cards and a land along with said Force, or else I think I would have lost that particular game. Having nothing to pitch, or only having one card to pitch, was an issue all day, and I was probably lucky that it didn't bite me in the ass (in round 1 it very nearly did, but I top decked the second Sower at the exact moment that I needed to).

Turning the Blossoms into Cursecatchers seems like that first step to fixing this problem. Bob was an all-star, so I would be loath to cut him. I've already said how much I liked the Edicts, but probably 2 x Edict, making room for Cursecatcher #4 would be fine.

[Sean Ryan]

I'm not sure about main deck Sowers. There was only one Oath deck at the tournament I played in, and his main deck kill was Progenitus. Obviously, if you expect a lot of Fish and Tinker-->DSC, Sower is a fine choice. If you want to have any chance against Oath, I would think that Edict is better. I didn't face a single huge robot all day, though, so who knows.

Why can't Edict just be blue I have yet to see Progentius, but Colossus is always present.  Sower is a good choice if you expect alot of Fish as you know.

On Bitterblossom:  Which math ups do you want to draw it over other disruption or beats?  Without Sprite it's only really good against fish/aggro and Stax.  IT's simply too slow against Tez and TPS, where I would prefer additional disruption and a way to deal with turbo tinker.  My maindeck is designed to have advantage over Tez and TPS while the sideboard is regulated to beating the second tier Ichorid, Oath, Stax, Fish. 

I like Becker's idea for Voidmage Prodigy.  He provides an answer to a top deck tinker or Yawgswill, while making your Cursecatchers relevant late game.  I wish Glen Endra Archmage was just 1 mana cheaper, she would be perfect.   

[Stormanimagus]

Congrats on your success!

I reached the same conclusion on Spellstutter Sprite.  The other issues I had with the original list was the lack of blue cards supporting Force of Will and not enough turn 1 plays.  This leads me to think that some combination of Cursecatchers and Stifles are necessary.  The other option is too ramp up on Duress/Thoughtseize while trying to maintain the blue count. 

What do you think about main decking two Sowers and moving the Bitterblossoms to the SB?  This would let you cut Edict as well, making sure you have access to some bounce.

Sean   

I'm not sure about main deck Sowers. There was only one Oath deck at the tournament I played in, and his main deck kill was Progenitus. Obviously, if you expect a lot of Fish and Tinker-->DSC, Sower is a fine choice. If you want to have any chance against Oath, I would think that Edict is better. I didn't face a single huge robot all day, though, so who knows.

Ummm. . . you DO realize that Edict is naught but a Time Walk against Progenitus as they'll just shuffle it back up and Oath it up next turn right? Edict is not a card that stops Progen. Just about the only thing that stops a resolved Progen. is Ensnaring Bridge or Tangle Wire as they don't target. Since those are bad cards to run in this style of a deck then your only other option is to stop your opponent from Oathing in the first place. Stifle is your friend in this regard combined with one of the three: Trygon Predator, Seal Of Primordium, Krosan Grip.

[Troy_Costisick]

Congrats on your success!

I reached the same conclusion on Spellstutter Sprite.  The other issues I had with the original list was the lack of blue cards supporting Force of Will and not enough turn 1 plays.  This leads me to think that some combination of Cursecatchers and Stifles are necessary.  The other option is too ramp up on Duress/Thoughtseize while trying to maintain the blue count. 

What do you think about main decking two Sowers and moving the Bitterblossoms to the SB?  This would let you cut Edict as well, making sure you have access to some bounce.

Sean   

I'm not sure about main deck Sowers. There was only one Oath deck at the tournament I played in, and his main deck kill was Progenitus. Obviously, if you expect a lot of Fish and Tinker-->DSC, Sower is a fine choice. If you want to have any chance against Oath, I would think that Edict is better. I didn't face a single huge robot all day, though, so who knows.

Ummm. . . you DO realize that Edict is naught but a Time Walk against Progenitus as they'll just shuffle it back up and Oath it up next turn right? Edict is not a card that stops Progen. Just about the only thing that stops a resolved Progen. is Ensnaring Bridge or Tangle Wire as they don't target.

A lot of times one more attack phase is all you need to win against Oath.  Edict can give you that.  Also Curfew and Noetic Scales can bounce Prog which means they have to find a way to discard him before he can come into play again.  Energy Field can buy you enough time to combo out.  There's ways around Prog.  No really great ones, but there are more than you suggest.