TPS players

[jamestosetti]

I read that shop may be on somewhat of a decline. I also saw that a player got second with this deck in a tournament with around 200 players. I have not played vintage regularly for about six years, so I was wondering what everyone thinks about this decks prospects?

I put together a list. This is what I have been testing. I have also been playing quite a bit of legacy's ANT.

Lands
    3  Flooded Strand
    3  Underground Sea
    1  Tolarian Academy
    4  Polluted Delta
    2  Island
    1  Swamp
    2  Volcanic Island

// Creatures
    1  Inkwell Leviathan

// Spells
    1  Burning Wish
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Chain of Vapor
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mana Crypt
    2  Preordain
    1  Grim Tutor
    1  Lion's Eye Diamond
    1  Tendrils of Agony
    1  Past in Flames
    1  Necropotence
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Yawgmoth's Bargain
    4  Cabal Ritual
    4  Dark Ritual
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Mox Opal
    4  Duress
    1  Fact or Fiction
    1  Memory Jar
    1  Tinker
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Mind's Desire
    1  Timetwister
    1  Rebuild
    1  Ponder
    1  Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Massacre
SB: 1  Shattering Spree
SB: 1  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1  Tropical Island
SB: 1  Chain of Vapor
SB: 3  Steel Sabotage
SB: 2  Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3  Abrupt Decay
SB: 1  Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1  Past in Flames

[Djinn695]

I would like to bring up Reid Duke's Top4 deck list at Eternal Weekend:

This deck list is solid. It packs in all the powerful restricted vintage cards that all range from 0-3 mana cost. The deck has 13 fast artifact mana giving it an advantage in developing a rich mana base. Supplementing this fast mana with three draw seven effects, (Windfall, Wheel of Fortune, and Time Twister) it creates a sense of control and tempo. It also has eight ways of insight to see if the coast is clear (Gitaxian Probe/Duress). Four of those cards draw you an extra card and four disrupt your opponents hand. Thus, with the fast mana,  draw seven effect, and Duress your opponents starts to run low on gas giving you the green light to:

1. Resolve/Cast either one of your five tutors:
     - Imperial Seal
     - Myustical Tutor
     - Demonic Tutor
     - Vamperic Tutor
     - Grim Tutor
2. Yawgmoth's Bargain
3. Necropotence
4. Yawgmoth's Will
5. Mind's Desire
 
Oh yeah, four Dark Ritual and one Cabal Ritual as well to help you play such cards as Grim Tutor, Yawgmoth's Bargian, Necropotence, and Yawgmoth's Will.

With that said here is Sir Dukes Top4 Deck list!

12 LANDS
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

1 CREATURES
1 Simian Spirit Guide

32 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Windfall
1 Grim Tutor
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mental Misstep
1 Imperial Seal
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
1 Tinker
1 Timetwister
1 Tendrils of Agony

15 OTHER SPELLS
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Memory Jar
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Black Lotus
1 Chrome Mox
1 Necropotence
1 Sol Ring

SIDEBOARD
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Swamp
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Thoughtseize
2 Island
1 Pyroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rebuild

If you were deciding to run a TPS deck would you run this exact list?

or

Would you cut a few cards to your liking meta-game depending?

Here are two links to watch Dukes matches at Eternal Weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1bEsYXx9wc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULBWv3Hzs6I

[A.-1.]

I don't follow other formats at all, but I hear that Reid Duke guy is pretty good at Magic in general. Considering his deck isn't that much different than TPS lists from 2-3 years ago, I'd say his top 8 was due more so to play skill and less about card choice. Actually, the deck isn't that far off from lists from five years ago give or take a few cards with most of those being newly printed ones.

[mmcgeach]

I feel like the weirdest inclusion is mental misstep.  Is that really as powerful as other options?  Why not a thoughtseize there?  If you've been running this list, I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

Also, I feel like this list should run Gifts Ungiven.  I'd be tempted to put it in the windfall slot.  My recent experience with Menendian's burning long storm lists makes me dislike the draw-7s.  I feel like every draw 7 that resolves is a bet that you draw into more duresses and the mana to cast them than your opponent draws into missteps and forces; which is a bet I lost enough to make me not want to base the whole deck's strategy on it.

Thirdly, I question the inclusion of chrome mox over mox opal.  I think with 13 artifacts, opal is probably better.

[Soly]

This is the list I had been testing:
4 Dark Ritual
1 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Windfall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Manamorphose
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Lotus Petal
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Memory Jar
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Imperial Seal
1 Epic Experiment
SB: 3 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer

[personalbackfire]

Playing a storm deck without force of will seems like a mistake. Not sure how you guys are planning to ever beat Lodestone Golem.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Playing a storm deck without force of will seems like a mistake. Not sure how you guys are planning to ever beat Lodestone Golem.

I couldn't agree more!

[Djinn695]

The only answer to Loadstone Golem is to race his turn four clock just as every non FOW deck dose.

What is everyone's thought on one Flusterstorm as protection if needed? With the amount of mental missteps being ran, Flusterstorm can come in handy when an opponent missteps your duress.

[Smmenen]

Kevin Cron and I reviewed Reid Duke's deck in the SMIP podcast on Eternal Weekend.  There are some obviously problems with it, starting with the lack of Mox Opal, yet the presence of Chrome Mox, Cabal Ritual, and Simian Spirit Guide. 

[Djinn695]

I found Simian Spirit Guide and Cabal Ritual helpful. Simian Spirit Guide can be used for backup if Badlands gets hit by wasteland.

For example: Your hand consists of Simian Spirit Guide, Mox Pearl, Badlands, Island, Demonic Tutor, Gitaxian Probe, Wheel Of Fourtne.

With this hand your game plan may be to Demonic for Black Lotus. Now, Depending on what you see in your opponents hand, you may be ready to Wheel of Forutne turn two. If they are holding wasteland, Sprite Guide allows you to turn one Demonic Tutor for Lotus and turn two Wheel of Fortune. If they are holding Force of Will instead of wasteland, your Demonic Tutor may need to get you Time Twister/Flusterstorm or Duress. If you take the Demonic route for lotus because they are holding wasteland you feel more comfortable playing your only red source in the deck knowing you have the Spirit Guide in your hand to pitch for Wheel of Fortune. It is also an extra land in the deck that counts towards your's storm if you are not faced in this situations.

Would you play this hand any different if the Gitanian Probe was a Chain of Vapor? If so, would you Demonic Tutor for Duress to see if you can use Wheel of Fortune next turn? What about if you just played Wheel of Fourtne turn one without knowing what your opponent had and use Demonic Tutor as a back up plan if Wheel of Fortune meets Force of Will. If your Wheel resolves you just lost value on Demonic Tutor. BTW when you pitch your hand Cabal Ritual is more than half way online. Those two cards don't seem bad or Sub-optimal to me. Yes they can be replaced with two other cards and the deck would still function the same. If you say there not good in the deck what would you replace them with? I know I would choose Flusterstorm for one of the slots.

With the rise of aggro creature decks Like BUG, RUG Delver, Merfolfs, UW Bommerman and other Fish decks, is TPS a strong deck to play now or any other storm deck.

[Tammit67]

For those who looked at Reid's article about his trip to vintage, he recommends cutting the Spirit Guide. I also replaced the chrome mox with opal without looking back. The Cabal ritual hasn't been bad for me but what do I know

[personalbackfire]

The only answer to Loadstone Golem is to race his turn four clock just as every non FOW deck dose.

Yea, I'm basically under the assumption that isn't a realistic goal for storm without Force. The whole strategy of shops involves limiting your mana. If you have no way to fight against that you are basically hoping that the shop player makes a mistake in playing their cards or keeps a bad hand. Neither of these seem like a realistic goal to win the match.

[Soly]

My Bob Tendrils list (that I had been playing for 4ish years without Force of Will before the East Coast guys added the card) was really successful against the Shop Lists of the Era.    The problem *ISN'T* Lodestone Golem.  It's if they have turn 1 Lodestone Golem and Turn 2 Sphere or Thorn.  The game plan is always the same;  Play tight, even though they don't have to, and use your bounce spells effectively in Game 1; then sideboard.

[personalbackfire]

My Bob Tendrils list (that I had been playing for 4ish years without Force of Will before the East Coast guys added the card) was really successful against the Shop Lists of the Era.    The problem *ISN'T* Lodestone Golem.  It's if they have turn 1 Lodestone Golem and Turn 2 Sphere or Thorn.  The game plan is always the same;  Play tight, even though they don't have to, and use your bounce spells effectively in Game 1; then sideboard.

Yea I disagree that it's as simple as play tight. The problem is that every turn they can cut you off much needed mana sources by spheres, wastes, tangle wires, or whatever. Previous to Lodestone you had more time since if they played something like a Smokestack, that was a turn where you could get ahead (or back to parity) on mana and hopefully cast a mass bounce spell to steal the game. Nowadays, save these 5 color lists I've been seeing,  they have Lodestone, which is another sphere and a fast clock. They continue to cut you off mana and present a clock. You simply do not have time. Force of will allows you to counter a threat which hopefully allows you to get to a place where you have time to mass bounce. Not being able to counter spells means they get to do what they want to all most entirely unmolested. I'm not seeing how that is a plan, with or without  Bob.

The reason we added Force of Will to your list, and cut Duress a few years back, was to have game against shop decks. I honestly don't think that traditional ritual decks (excluding Oath versions), have been well positioned since Lodestone Golem. Golem is the defining card that made TPS/ Bob Tendrils unplayable, in my opinion.

[WhiteLotus]

I couldn't agree more that you need Fow now to beat workshops if you don't have something like Oath into Griselbrand. Plus Duress effects and Xantid Swarms don't really seem to cut it any more with Mental missteps being all over the place.
The reid duke list really doesn't look like it was build for today's metagame and I don't think anyone but him (or so very few) could of achieved the same results with the same decklist. To his credit he almost never plays Vintage and built this deck almost on the spot.

I've been playing around with a Burning Wish/ Mystic Remora/ Pitch Long list myself and so far here is what I've come up with:

1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Ritual
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Memory Jar
2 Mystic Remora
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall
1 Mind's Desire
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Burning Wish
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Mental Misstep
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor

SB: 1 Yawgmoth's Will
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Rebuild
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Island
SB: 1 Mountain

I'm not entirely sure about the Remora Approach but it serves the gameplan well by acting as a Blue sphere effect against most decks, bait and/or helping you to compete in counter wars. It can also be an engine if your opponent is foolish enough to ignore it.

[Soly]

I don't think Force of Will is really that important.  I am in the minority, but I am completely fine playing combo decks without force of will against Workshop decks.  You play enough mana sources that you can easily break out of their average openers.  Sure, if they open Golem + Chalice you probably just lost, but most decks lose to that anyway.    Force of Will creates a vaccuum in that you lose two cards, and if your hand isn't gasoline, they're going to lock you out anyway.  Force of Will also forces you to run more blue cards than you'd want to in a deck like this.

[Tammit67]

I don't think Force of Will is really that important.

I'm in the camp as well, for however little it is worth. Everyone else I talk to seems to think it is a necessary evil, but I find it often clogging my hand

[zeus-online]

.

[Djinn695]

there are many ways to play around FOW. With 4 Duress and 4 Gitaxian Probe you can plan your game accordingly to resolve the critical spells you need to win. Mental Misstep can cause you problems but there are ways to bait them out of you opponents hand.

[WhiteLotus]

Fow isn't really meant for the control match-up even though it makes you "faster" by allowing you to force threats through if need be. The primary role of Fow is against WS on the draw, to counter their threat until you get can Bounce their lock pieces and go off or just counter their turn 1 and win on your turn. Duress & probe clearly won't do anything to stop a lodestone, so as mentioned above you can't usually bounce their board before you're dead. Also how stupid does it feel going turn 1 ritual> necro when they go shop, mox, sphere/ lodestone and you're ready to go lethal next turn but don't have a fow and just loose.  I don't really see why you would want to be running 4x Duress and 4x Probe when you can have a broader efficiency in a permission package with the same number of slots.

there are many ways to play around FOW. With 4 Duress and 4 Gitaxian Probe you can plan your game accordingly to resolve the critical spells you need to win. Mental Misstep can cause you problems but there are ways to bait them out of you opponents hand.

What are you baiting missteps with? rituals, tutors, tral? Duress is supposed to be your bait^^ but it works better when your opponent Fows it, when they misstep it you're blind and have wasted a card without taking something that could stop your engines, it doesn't really advance your gameplan and there's no way that they've kept a hand that just had a misstep against you (in most cases).

Also you have as much access to a duress effect as you'd want with Burning wish for thoughtseize. Which brings up another point, what's your angle for not playing Burning Wish? it Gives you a toolbox to deal with certain dire situations, as well as reducing bad opening hands with Tendrils in them, and most importantly giving you maximum access to Yawgmoth's Will and your win con's.

I really think that you have to interact with your opponent nowadays, you can't just ignore your opponent's game plan any more you're not just facing 4 fow and 4 Drains in a slower deck (We're not even talking about 13 spheres decks). Most blue decks have 10-15 counterspells which is pretty much on par with your number of bombs, seeing as they have draw engines and you don't, how are you going to keep up if they manage to slow you down long enough to bring one online before you can resolve a bomb ? Also those decks are way faster than they use to be, so their might be a chance that they can disrupt you long enough to win, since you can't do anything to stop them reactively. You have to make them interact as storm decks have always done but you need something that allows you to interact to a lesser extent as well in my opinion (although I am by no means anything else but a humble and passionate beginner).

I guess it all boils down to playstyle and player preference, In my case I prefer the free mana counter-magic while having access to Thoughtseize with Burning Wish.

I don't think Force of Will is really that important.

I'm in the camp as well, for however little it is worth. Everyone else I talk to seems to think it is a necessary evil, but I find it often clogging my hand

Well, i don't think it's a necessity, in the strictest sense of the word, either.

I'd be more interested in seeing the difference between the lists instead though. What does FoW replace? and do you have to further change the list in order to support FoW ?

That's what i think is important, not whether or not it runs FoW.

In the build I've mentioned above it replaces some Mana (I trimmed down to 28 instead of 30) and the duress disruption package.
Also you obviously need to add more Blue spells in order to play your pitch magic consistently (I think I Have about 20 blue spells currently). I Swapped Imperial seal for Mystical tutor, Added Gifts (though not very convincing since you only have one tutor for YWill, I wonder if Fact or intuition wouldn't be stronger here) and the two remoras as well. Remora works well in this deck especially against control decks, if they counter it it served it's purpose anyway, but if it resolves it will just Punish your opponent for trying to counter your bombs (since you'll draw counterspells to match them or just more bombs to overwhelm their defences) and if they hesitate and don't know what to do you can just go for the win. Versus Workshop it will help you dig to find your Bounce spell while at the same time forcing them to really think before they play. It's pretty awesome against almost everything but your easiest match-ups (non-blue Aggro and Dredge).

[zeus-online]

.

[WhiteLotus]

In the build I've mentioned above it replaces some Mana (I trimmed down to 28 instead of 30) and the duress disruption package.
Also you obviously need to add more Blue spells in order to play your pitch magic consistently (I think I Have about 20 blue spells currently). I Swapped Imperial seal for Mystical tutor, Added Gifts (though not very convincing since you only have one tutor for YWill, I wonder if Fact or intuition wouldn't be stronger here) and the two remoras as well. Remora works well in this deck especially against control decks, if they counter it it served it's purpose anyway, but if it resolves it will just Punish your opponent for trying to counter your bombs (since you'll draw counterspells to match them or just more bombs to overwhelm their defences) and if they hesitate and don't know what to do you can just go for the win. Versus Workshop it will help you dig to find your Bounce spell while at the same time forcing them to really think before they play. It's pretty awesome against almost everything but your easiest match-ups (non-blue Aggro and Dredge).

I don't see how those changes would be all that great against shops. You are cutting mana sources, adding a four mana card (Gifts ungiven), two mystic remora. While i agree that remora seems like it could be good against shops it doesnt work versus lodestone, and you better be drawing force of wills and bounce spells or his board is still gonna contain spheres and chalices since remora does not actually prevent him from casting it.

But the idea of a Remora based storm deck intrigues me, have you tried more remoras?

You're not really cuting mana sources but rather running the right number i'd say, and you have 2 lands in the side precisely to combat mana denial with a solid basic land mana base. Gifts is usually cut post boarding against shops along with necro since they're your weakest engines against them.
Gifts is the 60th slot, I'm not really impressed with it in this deck, but I needed higher threat density and blue count. You could probably be running intuition instead just to fetch 3 Bwishes to go for the yawgwill kill, since you need one in grave. But I still think Gifts is better if you go for Tinker, Bwish, tutor, tral/draw7/whatever bait. It's even better if you have a wish in hand or just need mana.

I use to run a remora in the side for the stax and control match ups, but I wouldn't go to 3 in the main because people play way more creatures then they use to, and remora is just bad against creatures and Dredge although those are the matchups you're pretty happy of playing since you're usually a nightmare for those decks.

Yeah the Remora part isn't really that great against aggro variants of shops, but it's not like it's bad (they still have at least 26 non creature spells). When they play acceleration and lock pieces (apart from the golem) they're possibly giving you answers, Tinker for Blightsteel (which is in the deck just for workshops) or tutors to get one of the above. Post sideboarding it gets much worse for them when you bring all the hate in, since you'll have a much higher density of board bounce with Ingot Chewers on top, the remora will really shine.
They have to play tight or expose themselves to the power of remora, so that's a good point I think because without it their deck is pretty much auto-pilot against combo. Also when you can't play anything, just paying for the remora makes you feel like you're actually doing something in the game.

Anyway if you're expecting a lot of shops I wouldn't play this deck but rather Burning Oath since it has a much better shop matchup. This deck has better Bug Fish and blue match ups though and it feels lighter and smoother to play even though not quite as broken.

[personalbackfire]

I don't think Force of Will is really that important.

I'm in the camp as well, for however little it is worth. Everyone else I talk to seems to think it is a necessary evil, but I find it often clogging my hand

Well, i don't think it's a necessity, in the strictest sense of the word, either.

I'd be more interested in seeing the difference between the lists instead though. What does FoW replace? and do you have to further change the list in order to support FoW ?

That's what i think is important, not whether or not it runs FoW.

I think its a necessity if shops are a part of the metagame and your goal is to win a tournament. I am willing to abandon my beliefs about 0 Force storm and how terrible it is against shops when and if we start seeing Tendrils based decks doing well consistently without Force. TPS, not Reid Duke's deck which is misnamed I think, was a deck that ran Duress and Force of Will. It also ran 4 basics and between 2 and 3 bounce spells. It was made to be better against workshop decks of it's time then its counterparts (grim long or pitch long). Conventional wisdom was to play basics, force, and bounce if you wanted to beat shops. Cutting Force is flying in the face of this proven method, which is where my resistance comes. I think some of the problem is that Shops have gotten better, and TPS style decks have not.  It's not like storm is naturally good against a deck that limits the numbers of spells you can play a turn. While they have gotten more spheres and lodestones, ritual decks have gotten opal and Burning Wish. The shop decks now are just more consistent then they were before.

I think playing remora is bad for what it's worth. In the past there has been some ANT decks that ran him in the side to some success but that's all I can remember. Remora is probably at an all time low in playability with the rise of creature decks.

[failtofind]

I have not played forces for a while..the shops match up is.never great, but in my experience having more business spells to capitalize on any weakness or opening they give you ( and they usually do) is.better than 2 for 1ing any one of the many 4 its they have in the deck.

[WhiteLotus]

I think playing remora is bad for what it's worth. In the past there has been some ANT decks that ran him in the side to some success but that's all I can remember. Remora is probably at an all time low in playability with the rise of creature decks.

Combo couldn't care less about the rise of creatures it's even pretty happy to face them rather than shops, so even though remora might not be as hot against them, the rest of the deck is great.
By the way remora is still a lot more useful in those match ups than you give it credit, as those decks usually pack twice as much non creature spells (25-30) than beaters (10-15). And those that are all in on the aggro plan have even less a chance of racing you if they don't disrupt you, so you won't really care that remora isn't as strong against them.

Also, you're not playing remora to stop their creatures you're playing it to protect your spells and make them doubt their decisions, possibly leading to a fatal missplay on their part.

Remora also changes the 2 for 1 equation that people seem to be concerned about with running Fow.

By the way Reid duke never called his deck TPS he called it Storm combo.

I have not played forces for a while..the shops match up is.never great, but in my experience having more business spells to capitalize on any weakness or opening they give you ( and they usually do) is.better than 2 for 1ing any one of the many 4 its they have in the deck.

You can have a hundred business spells if you want, if they lock you you won't be able to play your game.
Workshop is a match up that forces you to interact with it which is also your strategy against blue decks only workshop do it a lot better than you, so you can't be the beatdown here unless you create an opening by interacting.
You want to Fow the Golem/threat (not a random lock piece) to buy enough time to be digging for your answers or Tinker, you can also just counter it on their turn 1 on the draw and go off on your turn 1.

Fow is strong tempo here, duress is just crap. On the play I'd much rather play a draw 7 and forcably mulligan them out of gas since they are strongly dependent on mulliganning, rather than just 1 for 1 something they didn't even make the mana investment into, they have way to much lock pieces but they can't deploy them all at once. Tempo is the Key to winning the Ws match up wheter you're on combo, control or aggro.

[Soly]

TPS, not Reid Duke's deck which is misnamed I think, was a deck that ran Duress and Force of Will. It also ran 4 basics and between 2 and 3 bounce spells. It was made to be better against workshop decks of it's time then its counterparts (grim long or pitch long).

I think you have your history a little mixed here Steve.  TPS was originally designed in 2004 to combat 4 trinisphere workshop decks.  It played often times 5 to 6 basics (3/4 islands and 2 swamps), and usually 2 rebuilds.   It also ran Cunning Wish, and often times, would even run Library of Alexandria too!  The deck was often a turn 4 or turn 5 deck, while disrupting the decks of the time (Slaver, Tog, 5/3, and $t4cker (that's how they named it... "the $4,000 solution")   An example of one of the earliest TPS decks is here:

January 2005
Kenny –berg
The Perfect Storm

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Rebuild
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
1 Brain Freeze
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Coffin Purge
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Defense Grid
1 Echoing Truth
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
3 Hydroblast
1 Meditate
1 Rushing River
1 Stifle


So you are correct in that TPS Decks have been misnamed.  I don't think a REAL TPS Deck has existed in about 6 or 7 years.

[WhiteLotus]

TPS, not Reid Duke's deck which is misnamed I think, was a deck that ran Duress and Force of Will. It also ran 4 basics and between 2 and 3 bounce spells. It was made to be better against workshop decks of it's time then its counterparts (grim long or pitch long).

I think you have your history a little mixed here Steve.  TPS was originally designed in 2004 to combat 4 trinisphere workshop decks. 

So you are correct in that TPS Decks have been misnamed.  I don't think a REAL TPS Deck has existed in about 6 or 7 years.

It's way time to bring them back then !!!

Only this time to help combat Lodestone golem instead of Trinisphere. Storm decks are greatly underestimated today, obviously that has to change.

[jamestosetti]

I finally got some time and picked the last list I posted back up. I looked at some of the other lists posted as well tournament reports, and started making some changes. This deck pretty much plays how I want it to. I like playing it without force of wills because it makes the game less complicated. Even if I counter loadstone golem or some other threat there is a good chance of losing anyway, so I decided to just make it more explosive and play it how I want.

If I could add anything, I would like to put in more one drop discard spells, but I don't think there would be much of a benefit. The burning wish opens up quite a few possibilities like past in flames, cabal therapy, empty the warrens, and toxic deluge. Many of the changes came from looking at Soly's list. I had never played with some of the cards such as epic experiment, but they are all very practical in this deck. I really like lion's eye diamond because the amount of plays it adds to the deck such as a response to memory jar or a tutor. Gitaxian probe works out much better than I expected. This deck is actually interesting enough to make me want to play something besides legacy and actually enjoy it.



// Lands
    1  Island
    1  Swamp
    1  Badlands
    1  Volcanic Island
    2  Underground Sea
    4  Polluted Delta
    1  Scalding Tarn
    1  Tolarian Academy

// Spells
    1  Ponder
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Mind's Desire
    1  Tinker
    1  Hurkyl's Recall
    1  Chain of Vapor
    1  Timetwister
    1  Brainstorm
    1  Gifts Ungiven
    1  Mystical Tutor
    3  Cabal Ritual
    1  Time Walk
    3  Gitaxian Probe
    1  Imperial Seal
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Memory Jar
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Necropotence
    1  Lion's Eye Diamond
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Yawgmoth's Bargain
    4  Dark Ritual
    2  Duress
    1  Epic Experiment
    1  Manamorphose
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Wheel of Fortune
    1  Mana Vault
    2  Thoughtseize
    1  Burning Wish
    1  Tendrils of Agony

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1  Tendrils of Agony
SB: 4  Ingot Chewer
SB: 1  Past in Flames
SB: 2  Toxic Deluge
SB: 1  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Extirpate
SB: 1  Empty the Warrens
SB: 1  Cabal Therapy
SB: 1  Misdirection

[zeus-online]

.

[WhiteLotus]

Storm decks are greatly underestimated today, obviously that has to change.

I don't think so. I think storm is poorly placed in a format with so many powerful 1 mana counterspells, loads of spheres and a ton of efficient weenies that encourage aggro control.

So i think it is properly estimated, and not underestimated

Okay so maybe they're not underestimated, but they're way underplayed...
If you take the example of Smmenen's Burning oath, that deck is pretty well positioned towards the metagame compared to the classic combo lists we've been talking about above. Yet no one (or almost) seems to bother picking it up, so how is it going to post strong results if they are so few playing it ?
Will It take someone winning a major tournament with that deck for people to consider it as a viable option, like with Joe Lim's Merfolk Fish?