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Author Topic: [Free Article] Mastering The Perfect Storm: High-Level Tips for Winning With  (Read 19924 times)
neotrophy
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« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2009, 05:00:03 am »

One thing about the inky vs DSC on the board thing, if you're winning the race with inky, you're very likely to continue to win it. Where DSC can be blocked all day by either DSC or Inkwell Leviathan, Inky can usually islandwalk past your opponent's robot.
Edit: I could have sworn that inky was 7/12.  Carry on, nothing to see here.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 07:41:31 am by neotrophy » Logged
FlyFlySideOfFry
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« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2009, 07:34:38 am »

One thing about the inky vs DSC on the board thing, if you're winning the race with inky, you're very likely to continue to win it. Where DSC can be blocked all day by either DSC or Inkwell Leviathan, Inky can usually islandwalk past your opponent's robot.

Last I checked Inkwell has 11 toughness and DSC has 11 power so he can only block once then his non-indestructible *** goes down. Once again, standoffs are better than losing 2/3 of the time it is NOT an advantage. Not to mention in that 1/3 of the time you are in the "advantage" bracket if your opponent is aware that you can race him he SHOULD Tinker out either Time Vault, Voltaic Key, or Memory Jar because he'll have an extra turn to either find the other combo piece or crack Jar untapped that DSC wouldn't have allowed for. So the whole "Inky breaks standoffs" argument is pretty horrible. Leveler breaks standoffs also in that case. The big advantages are blue in hand and unweldable.
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« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2009, 12:03:44 am »

       I finally tested top in the place of ponder today after I finally thought it through. Once I started focusing on the critical mass aspect  and the pitchability of Inkwell Leviathan I realized how awesome top would be in the deck. It will allow you to make some pretty incredible plays. Lets say so many insane plays lol. It must be good if I beat red workshop aggro when that was typically one of my hardest matchups.

        When playing against workshop I've been s/bing the force of wills out against the versions that don't run juggernaught and s/bing out duress for the ones that do. On the topic of fact or fiction and intuition I'm not so sure it matters wich one your using as long as you give it some thought.
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« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2009, 09:53:48 am »

One thing about the inky vs DSC on the board thing, if you're winning the race with inky, you're very likely to continue to win it. Where DSC can be blocked all day by either DSC or Inkwell Leviathan, Inky can usually islandwalk past your opponent's robot.
Edit: I could have sworn that inky was 7/12.  Carry on, nothing to see here.

Even if it was 7/12, wouldnt have changed anything. DSC attacks, inky blocks ( 7/12) next turn inky attacks, opponent on 13, dsc attacks you on 9, inky attacks opponent on 6 DSC attacks you die.

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Yes,Tarmogoyf is probably better than Chameleon Colossus, but comparing it to Tarmogoyf is like comparing your girlfriend to Carmen Electra - one's versatile and reliable, the other's just big and cheap.(And you'd run both if you could get away with)
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« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2009, 01:13:58 am »

One thing about the inky vs DSC on the board thing, if you're winning the race with inky, you're very likely to continue to win it. Where DSC can be blocked all day by either DSC or Inkwell Leviathan, Inky can usually islandwalk past your opponent's robot.
Edit: I could have sworn that inky was 7/12.  Carry on, nothing to see here.

Even if it was 7/12, wouldnt have changed anything. DSC attacks, inky blocks ( 7/12) next turn inky attacks, opponent on 13, dsc attacks you on 9, inky attacks opponent on 6 DSC attacks you die.



I didn't realize Inkwell Leviathan was required to attack each turn if able.
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IDK why you're looking for so much credibility:  You top 8ed a couple tournaments.  Nice Job!
Smmenen
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« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2009, 09:55:43 am »

FYI: This article is free tomorrow.  I'm sure I'll forget, so I'm flagging it now.

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« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2009, 11:43:56 pm »

WOW, nice inkwell thread with a splash of top! Seriously, this is one of the most complicated decks ever and everyone is talking about this crap? So I guess I'll have to ask real questions, to start discussion.

(Anyway, @ Smenenenenen)<--edit: I didn't mean to type this. I know he goes over some of these topics a bit but I feel they deserve more debate and discussion.

One thing I definitely find strange about this deck is that it has 9 counter (4 duress, 4 FOW, Misd) is this really necessary? I hate drawing a duress when I need either more gas or guns. I tend to draw hands with 2 duress and a force and I think to myself, WTF is this the fastest deck in the format? Are their really no better cards? Please discuss.

Also, other than ichorid/belcher do you ever bother with the needles in the side?

What is your usual remora plan?

Why not splash a color for more options? Wheel/ETW is amazing, orim's chant is good, and so's regrowth/ zantid swarm. Their are certainly enough good cards.

P. S.
Inkwell is better
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 01:12:49 pm by sundering jerk » Logged

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« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2009, 12:00:15 am »

I definitely agree with Leviathan.

What did you think of the article?
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Marske
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« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2009, 02:47:59 am »

@Steve,
I've said this before when I first read this article. It's one of the best articles you've written imo and I learned a great deal from reading it. I also think it's still very relevant at this point because TPS is still a viable deck in the current and new Vintage meta-game.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2009, 09:34:08 am »

Thanks man!


Again, this article is *Free*, so I urge people to check it out.   It's full of interesting/useful examples about TPS.   Let me know if you have any questions. 
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« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2009, 04:24:35 pm »

Thanks Smmenen!  I enjoy your insight on magic.  It gives my friends and I something else to argue about!  Wink  thanks for everything!

Also can anyone tell me why can't I post a reply in the Tournament annoucement forum just in these boards?
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« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2009, 04:37:18 pm »

I actually enjoyed this article and I am NOT a huge fan of Steve's articles.
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?

"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
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« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2009, 08:30:55 pm »

I've done a little playtesting with this deck and read the series of TPS artciles you've written (which i found very insightful and helpful). However I seem to struggle on when to use my duress. Do you fire it off first turn to see what your opponent is playing and disrupt their game plan, or do you hold on to the Duress until the turn you want to push through a threat/bomb?

Also when to use tutors. Do you reserve them for the turn you are going off, or do you play them out each turn to sculpt your hand? If I play them out turns 1 and 2 I need the extra mana from the moxes in my hand, but you advised to hold them until the critical mass turn.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 12:32:13 am by GNU » Logged
neotrophy
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« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2009, 09:49:09 pm »

Duress is a particularly important card to the whole strategy of TPS.  It should be played early.  By playing Duress, you gain invaluable information.  You get to see what you opponent is playing, allowing you to pick the best lines of play and engines of choice.  You get to see how much time you have to craft your hand before you must either get more disruption or make something happen.  This information gathering and disruption is Duress' primary function.  The fact that it's also kind of handy for removing obstacles to your own path to victory is just an important bonus.

So, GNU, play it ASAP.  As Steven points out in has article, you should also be on the lookout for opportunities to chain a couple more spells off a ritual, and see if you can actually advance the game at the same time.  Trust that the deck will cough up something useful to you.  If you don't play the Duress first, and the useful thing that it coughs up is a tutor, for example, you will be in a far worse position to make the right play.

... additional ...
For tutors, it depends on what your critical resources are.  As a general rule, if you're short on mana and/or time, play the tutors out and get yourself into a position where you know you can win.  Otherwise, you're probably better hanging onto them, keeping options open, and building storm count.  Of course, if you're going for the Tinker/Robot plan, storm doesn't matter so much.  If in doubt, hold them.  It's called The Perfect Storm for a reason.  "One big turn" is your primary line of play, supported by every engine in the deck.  If you're playing out tutors, and even more so, moxes; you're using up valuable spells that could be part of that Perfect Storm.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 10:02:27 pm by neotrophy » Logged
Smmenen
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« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2009, 04:53:46 pm »

that's exactly right.   

As much as it is disruption, duress is a planning tool.  It provides invalable information that allows you to select a plan that maximizes your chances for winning.   

As for when to use tutors, I wrote about that in my three part primer.  Thetiming should be governed by stay of the game. 
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« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2009, 08:14:49 pm »

One thing I definitely find strange about this deck is that it has 9 counter (4 duress, 4 FOW, Misd) is this really necessary? I hate drawing a duress when I need either more gas or guns. I tend to draw hands with 2 duress and a force and I think to myself, WTF is this the fastest deck in the format? Are their really no better cards? Please discuss.

While I completely agree with this, it would seem that there is no right answer.  No, there is no fastest deck in the format.  TPS is glacially slow for a combo deck, but anything that is faster/smoother (ANT, GWSx, ICBMTendrils, GrimLong, et. al.) has nigh-unwinable matches in some part of the metagame.  I think that it is just bad times for combo, right now, and the emerging ubiquity of Mystic Remora only compounds this.
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« Reply #76 on: July 01, 2009, 10:12:35 am »

I had a few questions in reference to TPS. First, I wanted to know if its viable to drop grim tutor completely, as I feel more so than not its a dead card plus its very costly @ 1BB, not to mention it's a sorcery. Second, assuming you run a full playset of duress, for arguments sake if you wanted to include thoughtseize as more disruption, would it make more sense to drop a 4th duress for it or could it be the replacement for grim?
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Smmenen
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« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2009, 10:16:34 am »

Thoughtseize is very problematic because you rely so heavily on Necropotence and Bargain.   Sometimes, you will need two turns with active necropotence, and you will be using Duress aftering having drawn 6-8 cards with Necro, often in a precarious life range.   You will want to Duress, topdeck tutor, and then play a blue draw spell to win the game.   When the card you need to play at 3-4 life is Thoughtseize, that could provent you from playing the Imperial Seal/Vamp Tutor+ Ponder/Brainstorm you need to win the game.    Thoughtseize is simply too risky for TPS, and I strongly advise people not to play it.

Also, Grim Tutor is a great turn two play to try and win on turn three.

T1: Duress
T2: Mox, land Grim Tutor
T3: Tinker/Necro/Bargain/Ancestral etc

Grim Tutor is also there because of its ability to chain together spells for an early victory.   If you have 7 mana and a Grim tutor on turn one, you win the game. 
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« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2009, 11:41:51 am »

Thanks for the input Smmenen, its greatly appreciated Very Happy. I would also like to know If its a good idea to run TPS in meta, which is primarily stax, tezz, and fish?
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