[Single Card Discussion] Rumor (AR) - Sen Triplets

[Aekhold]

Sen Triplets
2wub
Artifact Creature - Human Wizard Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, choose target opponent. This turn, that player can't play spells or activated abilities and plays with his or her hand revealed. You can play cards from that player's hand this turn.
They are the masters of your mind.
Illus. Greg Staples   #109/145   3/3

(Source mtgsalvation.com)



Looks pretty strong to me, combination with Chant or TimeWalk Effects or a massive Counter or Prison Shell could be a powerhouse.
Discuss!

[BruiZar]

I was just about to post the same thing.. Looks pretty strong to me :/

[Troy_Costisick]

Wow, nice.  This card has a lot of potential in a wide range of decks.  Nice work Wizard's RnD!

[BruiZar]

I don't like this card at all to be honest. The design isn't elegant at all and the power level is just way too high. This guy can win the game on its own. We all know how easy it is to cheat creatures and artifacts into play. Also, it is the epiphany of non-interactivity, the way that trinisphere used to shut down interaction. Granted this doesn't get online soon enough to be that disruptive, but still it remains an uninteractive card. Probably find a space in that TnT deck I saw on the forum. Funtimes for welder i guess

Regardless of how much it will be played, I think the overall design of the card is just unimaginative and generally poor

[Tobi]

It is not even very hard to hardcast these guys. And one activation should be enough to win most of the time.

Time to play with Lightning Bolts again! 

[oneofchaos]

I doubt she will see play being 3 colors, she's a terrible drain sink, and tezzeret costs the same but wins.  Very cute tho.

[chrissss]

You can play cards from that player's hand this turn.

So you can play their lands? Sick.

A lot of people will try to break this card I am sure.

[Purple Hat]

I don't think this is gonna end up being good just because of the 3 color thing.  However, this shows something I have been thinking about Alara Reborn for a while.  You KNOW they're gonna make some terrible mistakes costing things with an all multi color set.  It's just too hard to keep the flavor of multiple colors while still keeping the power level down AND producing playable cards.

[rologa]

Anybody has noted that you only take control in your turn so you can only play instants from his hand?
Do not seems very powerful for me, only against counters and Xantid Swarms do the same for much less mana.

[Diakonov]

Anybody has noted that you only take control in your turn so you can only play instants from his hand?
Do not seems very powerful for me, only against counters and Xantid Swarms do the same for much less mana.

Incorrect.  You can play any cards that are legal for you to play as though they were in your hand, which includes sorceries and playing lands.  It's not the same effect as Mindslaver.  You also have to use your own mana to play their spells.

[tito del monte]

I have to agree with Bruizar that this does feel pretty raw and alarmingly inelegant.. at the same time, I think i'll have to try and get my mitts on some.

Any suggestions exactly what to fit it in? For example, could it work in a tinker-style deck running a set transmute artifacts?

[rikimaru75]

I saw in the Slaver forum that Sharuum was seeing play, so perhaps this might become a new slaver of sorts?

[Suicideking]

I think this is the new mindslaver.  Paired up with meddling mage you could have a neo-control slaver.

[sundering jerk]

Personaly I do not think this win condition is better than Tezz. It is the same number of mana with more intense colors, where you need to always have a counter in order to back up your win. Also, Tezz can be easily drained into.

The reason why I do think this is a good card for our format is because white hasn't had a decent win condition in a while. This card may open new doors to new archetypes and strategies that haven't been seen in a while.  White is my favorite sideboard color and I think the impact on the format will be a positive thing and not too powerful.

[carlossb]

Oath of Druids FTW.

[Diakonov]

On the issue of mana cost:

Don't forget they can be welded in.  It seems like Oath could also work.

[Yare]

Oh, I misread the card. Nevermind. I don't think this card is going much of anywhere.

[oneofchaos]

I would sooner see it cost 4UB, But time will tell if she sees play.  I don't think she is strictly superior to slaver tho.

[mutedequilibrium]

Personaly I do not think this win condition is better than Tezz. It is the same number of mana with more intense colors, where you need to always have a counter in order to back up your win. Also, Tezz can be easily drained into.

Benefits of Sen Triplets, over Tezz:
1. Creatures cannot directly attack Triplets.
2. Can be discarded to Thirst.
3. Can be Welded in.
4. Can be Tinkered in.
5. 'Wins' independently of another card [Time Vault] being in play/library.
6. Cannot be Needled.

Drawbacks:
1. Affected by some creature removal.
2. Affected by artifact removal.
3. Not as easy to hard cast.

I think the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Also consider that they can be Welded in on your opponents end step after TFK, being used right away.

I think this card could make Slaver viable again.

[Harlequin]

My intial thoughts:

- Its casting cost is ugly.  Much worse than Tezz.
-- But it can be cheated into play, unlike Tezz
- If put into play early, it will be a righteous beating
-- But if put into play late, it will likely have little to no effect other than a onesided city of solitude.  As your opponent gets a whole turn to themself to play down thier mana, and cast whatever they have in hand.  And every turn they get to draw thier card and get "first dibs" on playing it.  They aren't just going to pass the turn over to you with Yawg or removal in hand.  If they can cast it they will.
---- Which makes it kinda the opposite of Mind Slaver.  With slaver its almost like "the later the better" because as the owner of Slaver YOU get "first dibs" on casting whatever they ~would~ draw. 
--------- Which kinda makes it worse than slaver.  Because any time you could Early Triplets you could have probably also Early Slaved.  You also can't have a player kill themselve via Necro or something.

[TopSecret]

Which kinda makes it worse than slaver.  Because any time you could Early Triplets you could have probably also Early Slaved.  You also can't have a player kill themselve via Necro or something.

I was considering this, and I think it's pretty accurate.

In addition, I'm not sure how much of a beating cheating this card into play early would be.
I mean, you have to have the mana to play the opponent's spells,
which will be more difficult early.
If you get it into play on the second or third turn, what will you be able to do exactly?
You'd have about 4 mana, max, right? So, unless you totally screw over the opponent by dropping their land, which is feasible,
and you have the appropriate colors ready, which is pretty relevant against something like Oath, Stax, and Goblins,
you can play 1-2 of their cards and that's it. So, that would be a 4-5 for one, depending on whether or not you've stolen their land.
Is that enough to win on it's own? You probably won't have a good clock unless you've stolen a 'Goyf or something,
and the opponent can still topdeck things.

And if you have 4 mana in play, wouldn't Mindslaver be just as good?
With less than four mana available in the first three turns, this card could be better as a Sundering Titan or something.

In addition to all of this, Sen Triplets isn't really a good WIN condition. It beats for three.
Yes, it can get there, but I don't think it should be compared to Tezzeret, since it's a slow kill,
and late game, it's even less of an immediate threat in most cases. It'll get blocked by everything, which could matter a lot with all the 'Goyfs floating around.
If this card sees any play, I think it'll be in addition to other things that it's being compared to, not as a replacement card.

So, I'm viewing this as, "Which extra Tinker target or weldable creature will be used?
Inkwell Leviathan, Sundering Titan, or Sen Triplets?"
Even with this comparison, it doesn't seem to be better than anything else,
especially since Inkwell and Titan are always relevant.

I think it has the possibility to see play, but I doubt it'll be as a centerpiece,
unless someone builds the most awesome mid-range Salvager-esque deck ever,
or plays an awesome jank deck.

[mutedequilibrium]

--------- Which kinda makes it worse than slaver.  Because any time you could Early Triplets you could have probably also Early Slaved. 

I agree with most of the things you said, except this statement. Activating Slaver will always happen later than getting Triplets into play. That is, to say, there will be plenty of opportunities to get Triplets into play early in the game where Slaver would sit around waiting for the appropriate mana to activate. It requires no mana investment at all to use. It is 'hands free.'

Considering everyone and their mom seems to be playing Null Rod strategies to stop Tezz, Slaver would end up being hated out as a bystander. Triplets gets around this.

The biggest thing this has going for it over Mindslaver, in my eyes, is that it finally gives Slaver a chance to truly compete with TPS game 1. Slaver was often too slow to activate against them, thus being useless. TPS can even win through Sundering Titan most of the time. I can't see how they could win through this.

[Harlequin]

Activating Slaver will always happen later than getting Triplets into play. That is, to say, there will be plenty of opportunities to get Triplets into play early in the game where Slaver would sit around waiting for the appropriate mana to activate. It requires no mana investment at all to use. It is 'hands free.' 

Ok, I don't agree with basically anything you said there...  Slaver costs to cast this costs and 3 different colors to cast.  They are both weldable.  So I can't think of many opportunites where you can get triplets in play where you wouldn't be able to cast slaver.  I mean heck, Lotus only gets you a 3rd of the way there. And drain only gets you 2/5's of the way there (and its the easy 2/5's), even if you drain a force!   Assuming you put slaver into play on the same turn as these guys both plans have to wait until your next untap step to activate.

Slaver always costs you mana.  And then you get to take FULL advantage of ~thier~ mana to cast ~thier~ spells.  Triplets requires mana investment, and actually if you plan to get a big advantage out of it, it will probably end up costing you more than to do any sort of damage to thier hand.  I can garentee that they won't be passing the turn to you with moxen, Lotus, or even rits in hand - Ever.  Never Ever!  Infact they are going to burn as much of thier own hand as they can during thier turn.  So you get whatevers left.  With slaver if you topdeck them into lotus, or have them tutor for thier lotus; you do infact "steal" mana they could have used.


And I did say it was "kinda worse than slaver"  Not strictly OMG-Worse than slaver.  Sure in the light of other disruptio cards or whatever there are some situations where Trips are better than Slaves.  But they are the exceptions to the basic idea.


EDIT: 
Actually, is this guy any better than Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir?  I mean like really, they are just going to dump thier hand during thier own turn.  So you will probably only ever play 1-2 random crappy spells.  Teferi in most cases seems better.

[vartemis]

It's a cool effect, but in the end it won't see play.  Slaver is better.  Why you ask?  Slaver is a time walk and a mind twist in one.  This is a weak mind twist at best.  With slaver you pay to activate it, then use your opponent's mana to cast their stuff, then on your turn you still have your mana available.  With the three stooges, you have to use your mana to cast your opponent's stuff, then they get a turn while you tapped out playing their crap.  Regarding stealing land, worrying about on-color mana isn't really that big of a problem because most mana bases are UBr (sometimes a green splash) for the most part, unless you are stax or belcher.  The decks that should be worried about this are storm combo if they have reached critical mass and for some reason don't go off.  You can steal their moxes, land, draw and tutors and decimate their hands, but if their hand was really that good in the first place... they deserve to get a football in the groin for not going off anyways.

Bottomline:  someone will try and break it, but it will end up as a casual "win more" card.

j

[Diakonov]

It's a cool effect, but in the end it won't see play.  Slaver is better.  Why you ask?  Slaver is a time walk and a mind twist in one.  This is a weak mind twist at best.  With slaver you pay to activate it, then use your opponent's mana to cast their stuff, then on your turn you still have your mana available.  With the three stooges, you have to use your mana to cast your opponent's stuff, then they get a turn while you tapped out playing their crap.  Regarding stealing land, worrying about on-color mana isn't really that big of a problem because most mana bases are UBr (sometimes a green splash) for the most part, unless you are stax or belcher.  The decks that should be worried about this are storm combo if they have reached critical mass and for some reason don't go off.  You can steal their moxes, land, draw and tutors and decimate their hands, but if their hand was really that good in the first place... they deserve to get a football in the groin for not going off anyways.

Bottomline:  someone will try and break it, but it will end up as a casual "win more" card.

j

It is not a weak mind twist.  Yes, you have to spend all your resources, but you get to play all of their cards.  That's not even Mind Twisting, really, that's like Commandeering their entire hand.  And then, when you're done with theirs, you can go back to your full hand that's waiting.

Of course they will try to play everything good that they can when Triplets hits play, but at some point they probably will run out of mana, and not to mention that any card advantage they attempt to build will be completely null.  In other words, if they play Ancestral before they pass the turn, all they have done is save you from having to spend , because you will get the next opportunity to play those three cards anyway.  The only thing they can do is search for answers and try to put permanents in play.  Obviously they shouldn't be handing you any moxen, but you'll probably at least get a free land out of the deal (as far as stealing mana goes).

Mindslaver is not necessarily strictly better.  They do still get their attack step, but you get to cast some of their creatures/permanents and keep them.  Slaver relies on Welder to stay active, which is a drawback, but if you have Pentavus you can lock down.

The points go back and forth.  This debate could go on forever because the two cards are so situational.  I wouldn't discount Triplets just yet though.

[zeus-online]

Hooray for word of command!....I really doubt that it will be all that strong to be honest.

There are way more scary things to cheat into play, and hardcasting it is nigh impossible.

Kinda cool effect though.

/Zeus

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

Once this hits play your opponent has 1 turn to win, its that simple. Build a deck that can get this in play fast enough so your opponent can't win or run enough control that your opponent can't utilize the one turn effectively and you win. This should become the new Tinker target of choice because all you need is a bit of mana on the table and it wins faster than DSC. I mean in all honesty I see no way for your opponent to get back from you simultaneously Duressing+casting all the best spells in their hand unless they rip Will or something.

[policehq]

Once this hits play your opponent has 1 turn to win, its that simple. Build a deck that can get this in play fast enough so your opponent can't win or run enough control that your opponent can't utilize the one turn effectively and you win. This should become the new Tinker target of choice because all you need is a bit of mana on the table and it wins faster than DSC. I mean in all honesty I see no way for your opponent to get back from you simultaneously Duressing+casting all the best spells in their hand unless they rip Will or something.

This is only true against a Mana Drain deck that allowed it into play... It doesn't do that much against aggro or Stax.

[Eastman]

That's a pretty powerful effect, and really easy to cheat into play.  This would have a place in a re-vamped Cerebral Assassin.  That deck would probably be tops at bringing this thing in on the first or second turn.  Obviously the colors exclude it from workshops unless bazaar or master transmuter is involved.  Best use would be to TFK or bazaar it into the yard on opponent's end step so they don't get a turn knowing about it to unload all their stuff. 

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

Once this hits play your opponent has 1 turn to win, its that simple. Build a deck that can get this in play fast enough so your opponent can't win or run enough control that your opponent can't utilize the one turn effectively and you win. This should become the new Tinker target of choice because all you need is a bit of mana on the table and it wins faster than DSC. I mean in all honesty I see no way for your opponent to get back from you simultaneously Duressing+casting all the best spells in their hand unless they rip Will or something.

This is only true against a Mana Drain deck that allowed it into play... It doesn't do that much against aggro or Stax.

A 3/3 permanent that lets you cast your opponent's creatures and lands seems pretty good to me against aggro and mana denial decks. I would love to see some sort of 5-color Cerebral Assassin deck that cheats this guy in early then completely screws your opponents by stealing their lands and gas. It would definitely be fun and I can see it working its way in some top tier decks.