Oath of Druids Post-Zendikar

[Sporkcore]

Yup, there is definitely supposed to be 1 Hellkite in the MD.

[HouseofGames]

Is TPS just not being played these days?  That is my worst match-up and I see it a lot but generally in these tournament reports TPS doesn't even make a showing.

So is TPS just a local meta-game thing that most don't worry about or do I just not play correctly against it?

Congrats on the finish!

[Sporkcore]

The tournaments in the NY/NJ/PA area seem to only have 1 or 2 TPS players at a tournament, so I don't even worry about it.

[Rico Suave]

Is TPS just not being played these days?  That is my worst match-up and I see it a lot but generally in these tournament reports TPS doesn't even make a showing.

So is TPS just a local meta-game thing that most don't worry about or do I just not play correctly against it?

Congrats on the finish!

There were 3 TPS decks in the field, making it tied with Dredge for the 3rd most represented deck (the first being Oath and the second being Tezz).  

I was playing Oath against TPS in round 2 and managed to win, though my build is quite different from the above list.  Then again, I lost the mirror to Sporkcore in round 3, due in large part because of spirits/Crypt and Grip buying an extra turn to swing with lethal tokens despite my Will.  

Grats on your finish. =)

[median]

Is TPS just not being played these days?  That is my worst match-up and I see it a lot but generally in these tournament reports TPS doesn't even make a showing.

I just wanted to comment on the storm combo match, as i have some tech I'm willing to share now. oath is really just a deck thats just a bunch of tinker ->robot, you get much better robots though (iona), and you can't run a traditional robot + tinker plan -you could oath a robot up. using vault + volt is one solution to utilizing tinker, however i don't much like it.
the matches that oath is good at (shops, fish) are the matches that tinker robot is bad at, putting a good tinker target in oath should have no bearing on those matches. the only place you really want tinker to shine is combo and control.
oddly the trinisphere in my side board is excellent against combo, so i tried it main deck instead of vault + volt and it also improved my control matches. i was able to be a workshop deck, and an oath deck.
out of the current storm decks there is tps and maybe GWS/x that can go off under a 3sphere. most combo players aren't experts at it, and having spell pierce come against them makes it much more difficult.

give it a try

[Rico Suave]

the matches that oath is good at (shops, fish) are the matches that tinker robot is bad at, putting a good tinker target in oath should have no bearing on those matches. the only place you really want tinker to shine is combo and control.

I'm not sure I can agree with this.  In fact, my experience has shown the exact opposite.

Tinker->Robot is particularly amazing against Fish.  It has notoriously allowed blue decks to cheat and steal games against Fish ever since the early days of Control Slaver.  Is there anything wrong with running a 5th "copy" of Oath here?  No.  Especially if you are facing Pridemage or Meddling Mage naming Oath, having that Tinker->Robot plan is amazing.

Tinker->Robot is also very strong against Workshops.  Prison will frequently be unable to answer this play, especially if the Robot is unweldable, without establishing a hard lock - and it can be pretty difficult for them to do so quickly in the face of Hurkyls or pinpoint removal.

On the other hand, I find Tinker to actually be a liability against control and combo.  Why?  More often than not I find Tinker->Robot giving the opponent a window of several turns to fight back.  Against control this can be enough time for them to get Vault/Key, land a lethal Will, or perhaps do something as simple as Merchant Scroll -> Rebuild.  Combo decks in particular have it easy when given an opportunity to win while the opponent is tapped down. 

Now granted Oath is a different beast altogether, but the same strategies still apply IMO.  I have Tinker+Robot in my Oath SB, and I bring that plan in against both Shops and Fish but not against combo or control.

[median]

I probably wasn't very clear when i posted that. first let me say you I 100% agree with you about tinker against fish/shops. i just feel i don't need a robot, I have oath as my tinker -> robot for those matches (fish, shops). what i use tinker in oath for is time vault. but i usually use it against my weak matches (drains, storm). trinisphere serves the same purpose, but is easier to pull off.
oath has no problems winning under a trinisphere. and spell pierce gets a lot better, where most non oath/workshop decks have problems.

[beder]

I probably wasn't very clear when i posted that. first let me say you I 100% agree with you about tinker against fish/shops. i just feel i don't need a robot, I have oath as my tinker -> robot for those matches (fish, shops). what i use tinker in oath for is time vault. but i usually use it against my weak matches (drains, storm). trinisphere serves the same purpose, but is easier to pull off.
oath has no problems winning under a trinisphere. and spell pierce gets a lot better, where most non oath/workshop decks have problems.

I agree with Rico Suave : against fish or aggro, having access to :
- a "fifth" oath,
- that is not impacted by that "meddling mage naming oath",
- that is not disrupted by that painfull Pridemage or that "seal of cleansing/primordium...",
- that is not anhiled by that greater gargedon played by shop,
- that is not countered by that chalice at 2 played by shop
...
is according to me a good idea. Especially game 2, when the oath hate is sided in by the opponent.

Oath being now again a real contender, a well known "big player", dedicated hate is going to be more and more present in sideboards. Tinker/Robot can really help here.

[median]

I understand the worries about mage, chalice at two, and gargadon ~ oath hate in general. That’s the very reason I want to utilize tinker. But the reason oath is doing so well isn't because we have a beat stick, it's because we have a disruptive beat sick. Running trinisphere gives the disruption you need to get your bounce online while slowing your opponent’s game plan. And it can just downright win some matches. The utility bounce oath runs usually costs 3 mana or close to that, so trinishpere doesn't slow you down much. And if you play it proactively it has larger net benefits.

The idea isn't that you tinker out 3sphere and then your opponent concedes, it's that you use it to win the way you would a sphinx. Running sphinx in oath isn't possible and I believe trinisphere in oath is on par with time vault in effectiveness. When a tinisphere hits play, the game usually slows to a crawl, imagine how easy it will be to win with a deck like oath. If all your opponent can do is hold open drain mana or cantrip. And if they drain something, they still will probably just cast one spell, with little to no back up. That’s what trinisphere does.

Edit, thought i would mention that if your worried about gargadon, chalice and seal, try venser's diffusion


Second Edit:
it's better than i thought, take a look

[beder]

I understand the worries about mage, chalice at two, and gargadon ~ oath hate in general. That’s the very reason I want to utilize tinker. But the reason oath is doing so well isn't because we have a beat stick, it's because we have a disruptive beat sick. Running trinisphere gives the disruption you need to get your bounce online while slowing your opponent’s game plan. And it can just downright win some matches. The utility bounce oath runs usually costs 3 mana or close to that, so trinishpere doesn't slow you down much. And if you play it proactively it has larger net benefits.

The idea isn't that you tinker out 3sphere and then your opponent concedes, it's that you use it to win the way you would a sphinx. Running sphinx in oath isn't possible and I believe trinisphere in oath is on par with time vault in effectiveness. When a tinisphere hits play, the game usually slows to a crawl, imagine how easy it will be to win with a deck like oath. If all your opponent can do is hold open drain mana or cantrip. And if they drain something, they still will probably just cast one spell, with little to no back up. That’s what trinisphere does.

Edit, thought i would mention that if your worried about gargadon, chalice and seal, try venser's diffusion


Second Edit:
it's better than i thought, take a look

Fist and regarding trinisphere, I am not saying that this cannot be a side card with tinker. According to me, in oath sideboard, one could have tinker+sphere+shynx. Tinker+sphere may be used when it comes to fighting combo and storm decks in general.

Second : surely, there are efficent bounces that help you dealing with the oath hate. But why just siding in bounces that "remove the hate but still need oath to win" when you can side in "cards that don't care about this hate and are a win conditions by themself". Especially when one of this card - the robot - fits pretty well in the original game plan of oath.

My conclusion is : sure, siding in bounce or any other cards to deal is interesting, but siding in "tinker+sphynx or leviathan" is just to powerful to be ignored, especially in some matchups. It diversifies you threats providing a new game plan if your primary plan is blocked, there is no dysinergy with the original game plan, cards are powerful by themselves and they don't care about most of the oath hate (except creature discruption). I don't know what more to expect from a" 2 sideboard cards slot".

[MirariKnight]

That spells does very little to stop Gargadon. They can just re-suspend it. The only way it possibly works is if you bounce on their end step, then after it resolves tap Orchard. The best answer to Gargadon is Pithing Needle, and that card doesn't suck against other things.

[Sporkcore]

I ran 2 Pithing Needles in my board just for Gargadon. If the board wasn't tight as it was, I would advocate running as many as possible. Not only are they good against Gargadon, but they help against Ichorid, Pridemage, and the Seals. If Pithing Needle wasn't in my board for the NYSE IV, I wouldn't have won that tournament.

The only card I am really afraid of when playing Oath is Chalice of the Void. Chalice on 2 stops every key spell in the deck, from Oath, to Impulse and Lim Dul's Vault. It's the only card that specific hate is run against, such as Rebuild, Wipe Away, Repeal or Rushing River as all of those get around Chalice on 2. The scary part is, if a Stax player knows what you're running, they will put one out there against you and you can only pray you have an answer for it then, or by the time you draw into one, it may be too late.

[median]

first, on venser's diffiusion.
i thought it could be used main deck instead of wipe away. so that post board you have more answers to every piece of oath hate out there.

secondly on tinisphere,

yes i agree if your using it you should run a sphinx or other anti fish creature in the board. but i think you should defiantly put one trinisphere main if you expect a storm heavy meta. it also improves the drain match by about 10%.

[conboy31]

Assuming an oath list identical or similar to Vromans and The Deck as listed by steve mend, what should oath board in?
I was playing around with the matchup last night trying to figure out what would be best.
I tried bringing in 2 sadistics which usually won the game when they resolved, but triple B is tough vs. 4 wastes and a strip with a crucible floating around within their 60.  I also tried using 2 extirpates in the deck to eat drains, primarily thinking that I can resolve threats easier and not having to worry about drain -> pain.  I wondered if the deck would board out sowers because they are lackluster vs. iona and as a result bringing in tinker and sphinx.  All in all I was struggling to figure out the ideal board but I know the right substitutions exist.

[MirariKnight]

Assuming an oath list identical or similar to Vromans and The Deck as listed by steve mend, what should oath board in?
I was playing around with the matchup last night trying to figure out what would be best.
I tried bringing in 2 sadistics which usually won the game when they resolved, but triple B is tough vs. 4 wastes and a strip with a crucible floating around within their 60.  I also tried using 2 extirpates in the deck to eat drains, primarily thinking that I can resolve threats easier and not having to worry about drain -> pain.  I wondered if the deck would board out sowers because they are lackluster vs. iona and as a result bringing in tinker and sphinx.  All in all I was struggling to figure out the ideal board but I know the right substitutions exist.

I've tested this match really extensively, here's what I cam up with:
Extirpate is pretty good, not super awesome, Sad Sac is decent but doesn't really fit you game plan too well (Aggro out an Oath through counters).
In my build of The Deck I ran Sad Sac myself, which means Oath boards up to 4 win cons (3 guys + Tezz or something. I'm not sure if that hurts or helps the matchup more. If you know they have Gargadon bring in Needle. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to SB for The Deck, especially with Oath.

[median]

i would also side board in some red blasts. the one thing that i have no problem taking out in this match is pernicious deed. it will usually be very weak, especially since they will also be utilizing it.

[Everrid1234]

Here is my decklist it runs fiarly well.
what do you think about it? i have so far no really bad matchups (maybe ichorid but who hasnt)

stax: oath, natures claim, flux, early counters/seize
control: lots of cheap control elements
fish: if i can prevent trygon/meddling somehow (seize helps here) game is fine. sphinxen help a lot while racing. tinker --> sphinx immediately stops trygon to help oathing up more

Qty   ED   Name   Cost   Type   Rarity   Color
      // Lands            
1   7E   Island      Basic Land - Island   C   Lnd
1   OV   Library of Alexandria      Land   R   Lnd
1   U   Tropical Island      Land - Forest Island   R   Lnd
2   A   Underground Sea      Land - Island Swamp   R   Lnd
4   ON   Polluted Delta      Land   R   Lnd
2   ZEN   Misty Rainforest      Land   R   Lnd
1   DPA   Swamp      Basic Land - Swamp   C   Lnd
4   CHK   Forbidden Orchard      Land   R   Lnd
1   US   Tolarian Academy      Legendary Land   R   Lnd
      //\\            
      // Creatures            
2   ARB   Sphinx of the Steel Wind   5WUB   Artifact Creature - Sphinx   M   Gld
      //\\            
      // Spells            
1   6E   Mystical Tutor   U   Instant   U   U
2   LG   Mana Drain   UU   Instant   U   U
1   ON   Chain of Vapor   U   Instant   U   U
1   MM   Misdirection   3UU   Instant   R   U
3   ZEN   Spell Pierce   U   Instant   C   U
2   LRW   Thoughtseize   B   Sorcery   R   B
4   EX   Oath of Druids   1G   Enchantment   R   G
1   A   Black Lotus   0   Artifact   R   Art
1   5E   Brainstorm   U   Instant   C   U
1   B   Ancestral Recall   U   Instant   R   U
1   LRW   Ponder   U   Sorcery   C   U
1   A   Mox Sapphire   0   Artifact   R   Art
1   A   Mox Ruby   0   Artifact   R   Art
1   B   Mox Pearl   0   Artifact   R   Art
1   B   Mox Jet   0   Artifact   R   Art
1   U   Mox Emerald   0   Artifact   R   Art
1   OV   Vampiric Tutor   B   Instant   R   B
1   R   Sol Ring   1   Artifact   U   Art
1   PR   Mana Crypt   0   Artifact      Art
1   A   Mana Vault   1   Artifact   R   Art
1   UL   Tinker   2U   Sorcery   U   U
4   AL   Force of Will   3UU   Instant   U   U
1   A   Demonic Tutor   1B   Sorcery   U   B
1   A   Time Walk   1U   Sorcery   R   U
1   US   Yawgmoth's Will   2B   Sorcery   R   B
1   CHK   Gifts Ungiven   3U   Instant   R   U
1   A   Regrowth   1G   Sorcery   U   G
1   8E   Merchant Scroll   1U   Sorcery   U   U
1   M11   Preordain   U   Sorcery   C   U
1   P3   Imperial Seal   B   Sorcery   R   B
1   CHK   Sensei's Divining Top   1   Artifact   U   Art
      //\\            
      // Sideboard            
1   LRW   Thoughtseize   B   Sorcery   R   B
3   WWK   Nature's Claim   G   Instant   C   G
3   5E   Energy Flux   2U   Enchantment   U   U
1   R   Hurkyl's Recall   1U   Instant   R   U
1   UL   Rebuild   2U   Instant   U   U
1   ZEN   Iona, Shield of Emeria   6WWW   Legendary Creature - Angel   M   W
1   DIS   Simic Sky Swallower   5GU   Creature - Leviathan   R   Gld
1   DS   Echoing Truth   1U   Instant   C   U
3   DK   Tormod's Crypt   0   Artifact   U   Art

This decklist formatting is a mess.  Please make it easier for people to decipher next time.  -DA

[honestabe]

I think the best bet for Oath right now is to stop trying to be a control deck and perhaps revert to a more disruptive King James-ish list.  Off the top of my head...

1 island
3 wasteland
1 strip mine
4 orchard
3 seas
1 trop
4 delta

5 moxen
lotus
lotus petal
4 chalice

4 force
2 misdirection
ancestral
b-storm
4 spell pierce
vamp
wipe away
2 impulse

4 thoughtseize
demonic
merchant scroll
ponder
2 preordain

4 oath

2 terastodon
1 hellkite

SB
1 iona
1 sphinx of the steel wind
4 leyline of the void
1 tormods
1 relic
2 pithing needle
1 hurkyls
2 natues claim
2 firespout

[Cyberpunker]

I think the best bet for Oath right now is to stop trying to be a control deck and perhaps revert to a more disruptive King James-ish list.  Off the top of my head...

Why would you say that?

[Suicideking]

I went 5-1 in the steel city tournament against time vault tezz decks with out playing null rod or time vault in my list.

My old oath lists would beat on blue based control and could be good right now. They would certainly win the oath mirrors.

[Odd mutation]

I went 5-1 in the steel city tournament against time vault tezz decks with out playing null rod or time vault in my list.

Would you mind charing that list? I'm working on a 'new' list myself, so could use some inspiration from a 'paragon'.

Robrecht

[Everrid1234]

what do you think about my list? there is no vault combo, no tendrils or brain freeze since i think these take space and waste slots in the early game. i hate seeing krosan rec, iona, flash or the artifact combo tools in my hand. oathing is always (or nearly always) a prerequisite for going off with the alternate win. yes, there are situations you get 2 combo parts and win.
but how often does that happen? and how often do you have iona on your hand? its the only creature in vroman oath.... i see a problem here.

my win plan is just oath up sphinx or tinker sphinx.
2 sphinxen means consistency compared to sphinx/iona and lets me for sure get a sphinx even when i have one on the hand. its a very nice tinker target.

i'm not sure about the drains and cards like lim-duls, the amount of basic lands Ä(czrrently i just play 1 island because colored mana is so damn necessary, about imperial seal, senseis top, skeletal scrying, mind twist or fact or fiction.

input wanted!

another question: is just voltaic key and time vaullt enough for hte combo? or do i neew something else? i want the least amount of necessary cards for an alternative win option. another would be cunning wish for brain freeze but i think without having oathed and having had luck with that its much worse than voltaic vault.

[mistervader]

How sure are you that you can protect Sphinx all the time?

Iona can shut off W for STP. Sphinx shuts off R/G, which hardly has anything against Iona unless they use that new G card that destroys flying critters. Sphinx is great, no doubt, but it does nothing on its own until it starts a-swinging, whereas people like Iona and Terastodon do far more in one go.

You don't need to Oath before using your alternate kill condition of Time Vault. You can just draw/tutor into it. I don't see what you're getting at, because I've assembled the Vault-Volt combo about 30% of the time that I win with Oath, which is not an insignificant number.