[Free Article] Vintage: Old Favorites, New Tech

[voltron00x]

This week's article is over 5,000 words of dedicated Vintage content, by popular demand.  I have a full tournament report from my T8 with ICBM-style Oath on 8/29 at the N.Y.S.E. II, and then discuss how Oath might evolve in the future, with an interesting and powerful list.  I also look at the innovative Counterbalance deck from the N.Y.S.E. II, and provide an updated version created by Chas Hinkle that I think has the potential to be a serious player in Vintage going forward.  I also look at the Mana Ichorid list with Force of Will that won back-to-back events on 8/29 and 9/5, and finish up with the TPS list from the finals on 8/29.  That's a lot of Vintage! 

Interestingly, this article was submitted mid-week last week - and Chas and I managed to split in the finals with lists that were 72/75 (Oath) and 74/75 (Counterbalance) on 9/12 in Oaks, PA.  I'll link to the TO Report when it becomes available.

Enjoy - I look forward to your comments.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/18013_The_Long_Winding_Road_Vintage_Old_Favorites_New_Tech.html

[Sporkcore]

Great article and very interesting changes to the CB/Top list.

Has Karrthus still been worth it over Blessing? I do like how your latest version of Oath seems to depend more on speed than control which is the approach that I would take if I were to play Oath again.

With the new CB/Top list, is the red really better than the green without taking advantage of the red artifact removal or Reb effects? It seems to have made the Stax match up worse unless there's an early Empty or Tinker for Sphinx.

When putting the deck together originally, I never even thought of how Legacy players not willing to make the huge jump into Vintage could be able to play the deck on so few proxies. Hopefully this can draw in some new faces to the scene and we can start getting those 200+ events again.

[personalbackfire]

Great read, thanks Matt!
I do enjoy when you write mostly about vintage, and I hope the trend continues.

About Next Level Vault w/ red splash, has the ETW really been relevant at all? I mean the deck can establish a soft lock, or just go broken with vault/key but does it ever really ever use the ETW? I love the card but I don't really see how it fits in.

Also about your updated Oath list, I always thought most of the reason to run oath was the amount of disruption that the deck packs. Since your deck has drastically cut down from where it was at earlier in the year, 4 duress, 4 chalice, 4 negate, 4 force, do you feel that the more "broken cards" make the deck that much better? I always thought that Oath was supposed to be played more like a fish deck, but the direction you are taking it is more to a powerful ballsy deck

[voltron00x]

Great read, thanks Matt!
I do enjoy when you write mostly about vintage, and I hope the trend continues.

About Next Level Vault w/ red splash, has the ETW really been relevant at all? I mean the deck can establish a soft lock, or just go broken with vault/key but does it ever really ever use the ETW? I love the card but I don't really see how it fits in.

Also about your updated Oath list, I always thought most of the reason to run oath was the amount of disruption that the deck packs. Since your deck has drastically cut down from where it was at earlier in the year, 4 duress, 4 chalice, 4 negate, 4 force, do you feel that the more "broken cards" make the deck that much better? I always thought that Oath was supposed to be played more like a fish deck, but the direction you are taking it is more to a powerful ballsy deck

I guess I'm suggesting that there are two divergent styles of Oath that are both viable, and the better choice depends on the meta.  If decks like Tezz and Steel City Vault are metagaming against Fish-style disruption (Chalice / Null Rod) then that aspect of ICBM Oath loses significant value.  I think that style of deck is also always going to mulligan more, because you need to find the right disruption in the right quantity.  Similarly, the decks I'm playing against locally are minimally impacted by Chalice of the Void.  I've never really been a fan of Negate in the deck, since it puts you in more of a control role and often doesn't even really help you resolve Oath of Druids; it also does a poor job protecting against 5C Stax or Tezz (which just outdraws you anyway).

As the field has diversified, and the disruption Oath plays becomes more hit or miss, I'd rather steer the deck into a role where it is more aggressive.  The reality is that this build is able to out-power a lot of decks, and still has enough disruption between the main and SB to resolve the spells it needs to.  The list I played Saturday needs to mulligan less because it has more tutors and more avenues of attack.  The only card I'm not sure on as far as numbers is Ancient Grudge.  I may want more, especially when the mana gets even more flexible with Zendikar.  

Re: Next Level Vault, Empty the Warrens is basically just another one-card alternate win condition and gives the deck another 4-cost spell for Counterbalance.  I'm not sure how relevant it actually is - I'll ask Chas to respond.  Ditto on the red vs green.

As far as Karrthus goes, I definitely will continue to play a 3rd creature over Gaea's Blessing.  Whether that creature continues to be Karrthus, or changes to Akroma or Iona, I'm not sure as of yet.

[Bongo]

Very good article, you're quickly becoming one of my favorite writers!


1. What was the reason for choosing Wipe Away as your main bounce spell?

2. What card would you cut if you wanted to play an Ancient Grudge maindeck?

3. What's your opinion on running Iona in Oath?

4. Why no Dark Confidant in the Next Level Vault list?


Keep up the good work!

[Killane]

Very good article, you're quickly becoming one of my favorite writers!

...

3. What's your opinion on running Iona in Oath?

...

Keep up the good work!

Second the sentiment. Woudl love to have your voice in the Oath post Zendikar discussion going on right now, which is currently focused on Iona.

[Doomsday]

Thanks a lot for posting this.  Can't ever have enough free vintage articles.

[Sporkcore]

4. Why no Dark Confidant in the Next Level Vault list?

I wasn't running Dark Confidant in my list due to the fact that if you have a Counterbalance out, you rarely want to disturb what the top couple cards are. Being able to keep a 2cc and 3cc on top of your library is very important and saving the mana by not having to Top after flipping with Bob to keep it like that means that you have one more mana to possibly counter a spell being played.

[voltron00x]

4. Why no Dark Confidant in the Next Level Vault list?

I wasn't running Dark Confidant in my list due to the fact that if you have a Counterbalance out, you rarely want to disturb what the top couple cards are. Being able to keep a 2cc and 3cc on top of your library is very important and saving the mana by not having to Top after flipping with Bob to keep it like that means that you have one more mana to possibly counter a spell being played.

The Counterbalance deck just has non-traditional (for Vintage) "draw" engines.  In Legacy, many versions play Bob, but that takes time that isn't always readily available in Vintage.  Instead of drawing cards, this deck creates virtual advantage via Counterbalance, and supplements that with the tutor + card draw that you get out Trinket Mage, and better card selection because you almost always have a Top in play.  While I had serious doubts, this strategy actually seems surprisingly viable to me; in all honestly I shouldn't have been shocked.  AJ Grasso racked up a huge portion of his Blue Bell Champs points playing Landstill ported over for Vintage, another deck that "shouldn't work" in Vintage yet clearly did for some time.

[voltron00x]

Very good article, you're quickly becoming one of my favorite writers!

1. What was the reason for choosing Wipe Away as your main bounce spell?

Thanks!  I'm running Wipe Away for a few reasons.  One is that I got beat down by Chalice on 2 on 9/5 (where I was running H. Recall main) and wanted something that got around Chalice on 2.  I also lost a game to Tinker for Sphinx of the Steel Wind (who is very good against my chosen creature configuration); Wipe Away bounces Sphinx and they can't protect against it with any amount of counterspells.  Finally, its uncounterable bounce in the Oath mirror (which is suddenly quite common on the east coast).

2. What card would you cut if you wanted to play an Ancient Grudge maindeck?

I cut the Crucible of Worlds and one Wasteland for an Ancient Grudge main and a 2nd Tropical Island, and added a Tormod's to the SB.  I'd happily SB another Grudge; it was that good.

3. What's your opinion on running Iona in Oath?

  In theory she seems excellent, and I look forward to testing with her.  I already ordered a playset...  I could easily see running one main or SB.  The only question is how game-breaking she really is.  For instance, against Tezz, the majority of their deck is blue, but black could easily let them still win.  Similarly against TPS, black prevents them from winning but their bounce spells for Iona are blue.  Iona does little against most Shop decks, also.  So, there are potential issues.  I've hardly ever lost games once I got Oath active, since I switched to the all-Hellkite or triple dragon lists.  This list is very good at winning after one activation due to the extra tutors, Regrowth, and Will.

4. Why no Dark Confidant in the Next Level Vault list?

see above

[nineisnoone]

Sort of off topic, but haven't been paying too much attention to the Vintage scene so new to Sphinx of the Steel Wind.  Is her rise basically on the back of flying/vigilance/lifelink/first strike/protection green being so good against Tarmogoyf?

[DubDub]

Sort of off topic, but haven't been paying too much attention to the Vintage scene so new to Sphinx of the Steel Wind.  Is her rise basically on the back of flying/vigilance/lifelink/first strike/protection green being so good against Tarmogoyf?

That's one of several reasons.  Obviously Sphinx makes combat unprofitable for fish decks of any color, while still attacking.  In a race between two robots it generates 12-point swings, effectively hitting for more than even DSC.

When Thirst got restricted many Tezz lists began to incorporate Dark Confidant, but the life loss can't be ignored (hence the inclusion of Fire//Ice, or Pyroclasm in some lists).  Sphinx gains life, which plays nicely with Dark Confidant.
Additionally, due to the non-negligible life loss many Tezz decks began including Tendrils as an alternate win condition.  Again the life gain helps against Tendrils.

[voltron00x]

Sort of off topic, but haven't been paying too much attention to the Vintage scene so new to Sphinx of the Steel Wind.  Is her rise basically on the back of flying/vigilance/lifelink/first strike/protection green being so good against Tarmogoyf?

Yeah, I mean Sphinx basically trumps any R/G or G/W type beats decks, and Fish decks can have serious problems with Sphinx as well.  If you're in an area where people play Oath, especially with Hellkites, Sphinx is pretty amazing.  The life gain can also be relevant against decks like TPS or to survive infinite turns with Key/Vault and Bob in play.

I think the real reason Sphinx sees play is that in addition to all of the above, Sphinx ignores cards like REB, Krosan Grip, Oxidize, and Ancient Grudge, AND because of Inkwell, most people are playing bounce that doesn't target (like Hurkyl's or Rebuild) or spells like Diabolic Edict.  Since that's the case, it sort of makes sense to play the Tinker target that is better against Fish / Aggro / Oath.

At least, that's the line of thought.

[Sporkcore]

Sphinx is also good in Workshop heavy metas where it can't be blocked all day by Karn or Sundering Titan and can't be welded out.