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Author Topic: [Free Article] How To Use Gifts Ungiven in Vintage Tezzeret  (Read 6213 times)
Smmenen
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« on: November 22, 2009, 11:58:42 pm »

Gifts Ungiven is in my view the single most skill intensive card in Vintage magic.   No other card combines high-stakes, high-pressure decision making in a single card, forcing you to select four unique cards in less than sixty seconds.   Not even Necropotence is as skill intensive.   You have to not only calculate which four cards to select, but you have to look at all six possible combinations of card pairings that they may give you, while trying to have the greatest positive impact on the game.    You can't just substitute one card for another in your calculations, because each card's interactions are unique, and require their own separate analysis.   Moreover, every single context interacts differently with those potential piles.   Your opponent's board, your board, your hand, your opponent's hand, etc -- all of these things, and more, matter.

Back in the Gifts era, I had alot of fun writing about Gifts Puzzles (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/13064_Gifts_The_Puzzling.html ), both for entertainment and to help people acquire a mode of thinking that would help them make better Gifts decisions.   In some ways, Gifts piles today are even more challenging, both because Gifts is a less frequent play, and thus it is a skill that is used less often (much like using a muscle less leads to atrophy), and because so many cards are restricted, there are more unique cards in most Vintage decks, which means more potential options.  Finally, because there isn't a standard "gifts package" as there was back in the Gifts era, the difference between a mediocre Gifts pile and an excellent one can easily mean the difference between winning and losing.

Today, I spend 12 pages sketching out how to build Gifts piles in each stage of the game, focusing on guidelines, goals and other considerations to keep in mind, illustrated with many specific examples.   Whether you are a Vintage novice or an expert, there is probably something that you'll find entertaining and educational in this article.  

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/18317_So_Many_Insane_Plays_How_To_Use_Gifts_Ungiven_In_Vintage_Tezzeret.html

Enjoy.   Smile

- Stephen
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 02:06:08 pm by Smmenen » Logged

pierce
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 02:52:36 am »

for the scenario of:
Gifts Ungiven
Mana Crypt
Mox Emerald
Island
Polluted Delta
Mana Drain
Force of Will

I may or may not cast gifts early. Waiting until I find a tutor of some sort and then firing it off for some combination of mysitical/vamp/demo/lotus/tinker for the quick combo win. Why cast gifts if it won't just win the game for you? You know, if you wait, it always will. Can't think of a single time I've resolved gifts and lost.

Strongly disagree with your piles for this scenario:

Tolarian Academy
Island
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Gifts Ungiven
Force of Will
Mana Drain 

My pile would always be geared towards getting a mystical tutor. I'll just throw in cards they straight up cannot give me, and win with tinker.
A call
mystical
tezzeret the seeker
demonic tutor

sensei's diving top barely belongs in vintage decks. it does not belong in gifts piles.

I would also never drop a bob in a gifts pile. If I am casting gifts, I believe it should win me the game.

as for:
Tolarian Academy
Gifts Ungiven
Black Lotus
Demonic Tutor
Imperial Seal
Sensei’s Divining Top
Volcanic Island

I would go, volc, top lotus, imp for key, tap top to draw, draw key, play demonic tutor for time vault and hope to race.
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 03:22:24 am »

Hello Stephen,

Thanks a lot for that article. I recently started playing Vintage, and I've found Gifts a very challenging card to play, in spite of its enormous power. Articles like this one are the reasons why I suscribed to SCG, and I'm glad I did.
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 03:39:22 am »

Why does everybody want to cast Gifts Ungiven to just win the game on the spot (more or less)? If you cast an early Gifts you probably won't win the next turn, but you can get enough advantage out of it to just overwhelm your opponent in the next 2-3 turns and win then.
What's the problem with that use of Gifts?
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 03:52:07 am »

One of the best articles in a while. I agree that Gifts is one of the hardest cards to use properly and this article provided a lot of practical applications of the card.

As for the question at the end, there are a few possible solutions. I will assume this is game 1 so the answer can't just be "Gifts for hate:"

If you are on the play, this hand is significantly better. You have 3 turns instead of 2 to win the game. I would go Volcanic, Lotus > BBB. Cast Demonic for Key, play it off Volcanic. Then cast Imperial Seal off Lotus, get Vault. Next turn, play Top, Vault, and untap and win on the third turn. This of course bypasses Gifts, but it also gets around said turn 0 Leyline.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to win with this on the draw before turn 3. Lack of a constant B source as well as being 1 mana short of most solutions is my problem at the moment. I'll edit this with an answer tomorrow when I figure out something.

Edit:
The solution has to somehow involve Time Walk and Voltaic Key/Vault...but everything winds up one mana short, or at the very least needs a stable source of B instead of Volcanic. If we can assume that we draw either some kind of artifact mana (esp. Jet), a piece of Vault/Key, or Time Walk I can figure multiple outs, but otherwise I just see some ways that are one turn too slow. If we have the option of going for stuff like Recall to assume drawing one of the key cards then I can see some good Gifts piles as well. Maybe I'm still missing something though
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 01:20:22 pm by MirariKnight » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 10:22:02 am »

as for:
Tolarian Academy
Gifts Ungiven
Black Lotus
Demonic Tutor
Imperial Seal
Sensei’s Divining Top
Volcanic Island

I would go, volc, top lotus, imp for key, tap top to draw, draw key, play demonic tutor for time vault and hope to race.

On turn 2, you now have Volc in play, you can play Tolarian Academy, but it taps for 0 until you drop an artifact. It was outright stated that "you lose on turn 3," so your "hope to race" won't work. On the play, you have that extra turn to get there, and it's no longer much of a puzzle.

If I may dictate that I draw a Mox for my Turn 1 draw, there's a solution in, Mox, Lotus, Academy, tap Mox for SDT, tap Academy for UUU, sac Lotus for BBB, D. Tutor for Vault, play Vault, Imp Seal for Key, play Key. Smile and pass turn.

If the Turn 1 draw is a dead card, then there doesn't appear to be a way around it without using Gifts, and since this was a Gifts article, it seems a safe assumption. Beyond that, are there any assumptions we can make here? Can we assume that we're going to counter Dread Return with Mana Drain to live until turn 3 and 4 mana? Is Ancestral Recall dead since we don't know what we're drawing?
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Smmenen
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 11:53:38 am »

If I am casting gifts, I believe it should win me the game.


It should contribute to you winning the game, but asking a Gifts to 'win the game' is asking too much.

In old Meandeck Gifts, in control matches, I used to Gifts for this pile all the time:

Fact or Fiction
Gifts Ungiven
Merchant Scroll
Another controllish blue card, or maybe Drain, mystical, time walk, etc. 

Esp. if it was a turn 2-3 gifts.   Alot of times they'd give me the Fact and the Gifts, which is insane. 

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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 12:14:37 pm »

Your aim is to win on your second turn. This is easily accomplished by drawing one of 11 cards(listed below) in your first 2 draw steps (Which you are roughly 34% to accomplish). Those cards are:

Time Walk, 5 Moxen, Mana crypt, Sol Ring, Mana vault, Voltaic key, Time vault.

Your sequence of plays is Draw, Volcanic, Top, Lotus, pass. Draw, Academy, tapp academy and sac lotus for UUBBB.

The mana artifacts allows you to get past the "1 mana short to activate Key-vault" issue. You will use Mana crypt  to set up a gifts pile to ensure you find tinker or a way to bounce your mana crypt.

With time walk you are going to demonic for key, vap your volc and play key, imperial seal for time vault, then play time walk with your remaining 2 mana.

Both Vault and key allow you imperial for the other flip top and activate the combo immediately: UUBBB, Imp. UUBB, flip top, Play key-vault leaving 2 mana available(untapped volcanic still).

This seems like the bset plan of attack.
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 02:19:12 pm »

Tolarian Academy
Gifts Ungiven
Black Lotus
Demonic Tutor
Imperial Seal
Sensei's Divining Top
Volcanic Island

It is clear that we should immediately sac lotus for BBB because otherwise we can't play demonic nor imperial and we have to win on the power of a lone gifts. Imagine this line of play:
Play lotus and sac for BBB. PLay demonic for manacrypt! play crypt and play top. We have B1 floating, play tolarian.Now we have the option to play gifts or to imperial seal for time walk/broken stuf. If we gifts now we will win for sure on our next turn with seal into will if we manage to get a Black source from gifts. I would search for the following cards: Time walk, mox jet, a fetchland and mystical. We will probably get jet and the fetchland. We can now play jet + imperial for will to protect ourselves from cabal therapy. Next turn we will win for sure.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 02:25:40 pm by benny » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 04:29:52 pm »

you are right, as I shouldnt draw with top, just leave the other half of the combo there. Was going to bed, didnt think that one through.
so the right play is then:

trop, blotus, crack for BBB, demonic for key, play it with the island, imp seal for the tvault. this play also renders you safe from any hand disruption, which ichorid aways seems to have.

no steve, I strongly believe you to be wrong. This extends beyond this point and to most of the gifts piles you listed. Your counterargument that listed a gifts pile with Meandeck Gifts is at most arbitrary--as the deck ran four gifts, you need not just win with the card, though often you were able to.

I started playing when gifts came out--my first ptq I lost my last few rounds to strong gifts players. My first two t1 tournaments I lost to Travis Spero in both finals while he was playing Gfts. I learned the lesson after these three events. I took my first ptq t8 with an extended gifts control deck that I would later miss out on a GP day two on tiebreaks (back when that bullshit happened) with a similar list.

Since then, I have not lost a game where I've cast gifts, in any format, in as long as I can remember. Gifts is powerful enough to simply win the game, and it should be used to it's full power each time.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 04:38:31 pm »

Until Mark Gottlieb erratas Gifts Ungiven, it does not have the phrase "win the game" on it.   What that means is that there will always be other actions necessary to satisfy those conditions.  Asking Gifts to 'win the game' is therefore too much to ask.   It can contribute to a game win, but it can never win the game.   Not even Mind's Desire can do that.  

Until then, I will always play Gifts -- or not -- to maximize my chances of winning the game.  
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 04:45:16 pm by Smmenen » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 10:58:00 am »

I started playing when gifts came out--my first ptq I lost my last few rounds to strong gifts players. My first two t1 tournaments I lost to Travis Spero in both finals while he was playing Gfts. I learned the lesson after these three events. I took my first ptq t8 with an extended gifts control deck that I would later miss out on a GP day two on tiebreaks (back when that bullshit happened) with a similar list.

Since then, I have not lost a game where I've cast gifts, in any format, in as long as I can remember. Gifts is powerful enough to simply win the game, and it should be used to it's full power each time.
Congratulations. You've lost to Gifts Ungiven when it's cast, and you've won with Gifts Ungiven when it's been cast. Join the club. Your narrow experiences don't define this card. The point of Steve's article that you seem to disagree with, is that Gifts Ungiven can be used as a utility or setup spell. Like every other card in your deck you should recognize the fact that it can merely be a tool to advance you to your ultimate goal: winning the game. Having a very narrow application in mind will cause you to overlook options that would otherwise win you the game earlier or when facing difficult situations (IE some forms of resistance on board or in your opponent's hand), because you were looking to win the game with Gifts as a blowout spell.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 11:09:49 am »

Yeah -- Waiting to use Gifts because you want to wait until you can make the final blow with the cards you find could paradoxically cause you to lose the game because you aren't making the most of your resources now.   The goal is to maximize your chances of winning the game, regardless of whether that's next turn or three turns from  now.  
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 11:12:28 am by Smmenen » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 11:36:09 am »

Gifts, even early on, tends to either win the game or "win the game".  Played early, Gifts is usually able to provide insurmountable additional resources to a Tezz player with the end result of Tezz winning the game.  Played late, it is extremely easy for Gifts to allow for a straight-up win on the spot.

I've almost never won against Tezz when they've resolved a Gifts, unless the Gifts was played in desperation or the Gifts choices were extremely poor.

EDIT:  Also wanted to say this was a very good article, not many articles are written that are this detailed about technical aspects of play, especially Vintage play.  Gifts is a great card to highlight the strategic differences inherent in a format like Vintage compared to other formats like Block / Standard / Extended.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:40:18 pm by voltron00x » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 02:25:00 pm »

Any thoughts of adding 1 tropical island and a regrowth? Smile
Really liked both in 4 Thirst tez....although i played 2 trops...

Would make gifts and fact alot better.

Meandeck Gifts was one of my favorite vintage decks ever, Gifts is incredible broken even if it just finds 4 card drawers (Say...Fact, Scroll, Skeletal scrying, Thirst)

I've won many games with meandeck gifts by simply getting more card-draw to fuel the deck.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 02:06:19 pm »

Article is now free!  Enjoy!
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2010, 04:19:02 am »

Thanks Steeve for this article Smile!
There are a lot of interesting thoughts inside it.
Just one question about the early lines of play for Gits Ungiven (as you mean, on turn 1 or 2) : why a card like Deep Analysis is not considered as a potential choice? I understand that you made the article with a "standard" model of your Tezz list (and I agree that a Gifts set-up like Confidant - Demonic - Time Walk - Merchant Scroll is a strong choice), but Deep offers a way to  draw cards whatever opponent's choice, and then allows flexibility for the choice of the 3 remaining cards (tutors, broken like Tinker, counters...). Then opponent's choice is becoming : letting you outdraw him if you get Deep, or giving you the brokeness. It's just a thought, but I think the card might be an interesting 1-of in the Tezz list (even if I know it adds a spell nobody wants to reveal on Dark Confidant Surprised).
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2010, 10:05:44 am »

This was the possibly the best article I've ever read.  I was underusing gifts SOOOO much.  This helped a lot
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2010, 12:58:02 pm »

An interesting read, Steve. Thanks for writing this.
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