Sum of its parts: Optimal Tezzeret

[yukizora]

Well, seems like green is a good option.
Here's what the changes I did to the 55-cards list on the beginning of this topic:
-1 Fire / Ice
-3 Volcanic Island
-1 Rebuild
-1 Tezzeret
+1 Hurkyl's Recall
+1 Library of Alexandria
+2 Tropical Island
+1 Darkblast
+1 Dark Confidant
+1 Tendrils of Agony
+2 Sower of Temptation
+1 Regrowth

So, I played a list not so different from that in a 45-man vintage event and it went pretty well, the above version is my revised one after the tournament.
I've been really impressed by Tendrils of Agony. Our win conditions once Time Vault is gone are not always good. Tendrils can help kill an opponent that's not careful enough or that removed our Time Vault win condition. Sower of temptation seems very good against fish and MUD, and always steals Dark Confidant. This card bends the game whenever it's played, exepted against Combo decks.
Regrowth is completely awesome, it's basically a "joker", whenever you need anything back again, just like a Sower, a Recall or anything from your gifts package, it's always helpful. It helps a lot to deal with anything post-SB, taking back your sideboard cards you need to be very efficient against a specific deck (Leyline of the Void, Massacre, or whatever) Also, I've never been decieved with Library of Alexandria, excepted when on the play against MUD, otherwise if you activate it quickly, it will help you defeat everything but a Wasteland or a broken play from your opponent.

Also, with green, my sideboard has become:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Nemesis Trap (I just like it but actually never had it in hand yet, it just seems to be excellent against oath and fish.)
1 Massacre
3 Nature's Claim
1 Pithing Needle
1 Hurkyl's Recall
+4 Free slots (Here I'd appreciate a lot your input, about what I should side-out and side-in for certain matchups).

I've never been disappointed with Massacre, Rebuild, Hurkyl's Recall or Nature's Claim, the only two "test cards" in there are Tarmogoyf and Nemesis Trap, which I found to be very useful for MUD and Fish Matchups, and as the Tarmogoyfs also provide a quick clock against Tezz decks, it might be used in this situation, but I'm not sure if there's anything to take out from the Maindeck.

Here's how my SB plan looks like:
MUD:
-1 Duress
-1 Darkblast
-1 Tendrils of Agony
-1 Tezzeret
+3 Nature's Claim
+1 Hurkyl's Recall

Fish:
-1 Tezzeret
-1 Duress
+1 Massacre
+1 Nemesis Trap

Mirror:
-1 Sower of Temptation
+1 Nature's Claim

Oath:
-2 Sower of Temptation
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Nemesis Trap

TPS:
-2 Sower of Temptation
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Nature's Claim

As I see, Tezzeret seems to go out against Aggro decks, and Sower against Combo / Control decks. If I wanted to optimize this I'd certainly replace these three for cards that are good in any situation, maybe 1 Jace, 1 Ponder and one other?
Maybe I'm totally off with sideboarding, but the deck seems so strong that I can't take out any of it's powerful parts.

[God_Campbell]

I feel liek right now is the best time to be running green, natures claim was amazing from the 2 times I have played the card, I have top 8'ed and split first with this list:

4 Drain
4 Fow
1 Rebuild
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Tinker
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Vamp Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Natures Claim
1 Yawg will
1 Sensei Top
3 Dark COnfidant
3 Spell Pierce
1 Repeal
1 Tezzeret
1 Jace 2.0
1 Demonic tutor
1 Sphinx of the steelwind
1 Ponder
1 Mystical tutor
5 Mox
1 Lotus
1 Sol ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Polluted delta
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground sea
2 Tropical island
3 Island
1 Forest

SB
2 Nature's Claim
2 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Trygon Predator
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Yixlid Jailer
4 Leyline of the Void

[Grand Inquisitor]

I ran a pretty standard Ubg list last night at ELD's and was pleased with how it fared against mirror, oath, tps, shops.  The adjustments I made are:

- 23 sources in the MD, 1x forest in the SB
- 2 MD Mystic Remora, 0 SB cards for combo or control (I SB'd in Leylines against TPS which were passable)
- 0 Mystical Tutor, 0 Regrowth, 0 Spell Pierce, 0 regrets
- 0 Ponder, 0 TFK, I wanted to see what it was like without them and while ok, I feel like Ponder especially should be back in a list with 23 sources
- MD 1 Nature's Claim, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1 Repeal, 1 Rebuild, these were the 'fill out' slots and while repeal and nature's claim were good, EE was inconclusive

I didn't play any MUD in rounds, but practiced on the side with Bill Copes running Smennen's list.  The matchup isn't good, but with this sideboard, it feels much more even than before:

1 Forest
3 Nature's Claim
3 Seal of Primordium
1 Krosan Grip

If you can stop the clock then you can outlast the sphere effects.  Sometimes they implode themselves and sometimes they drop the wrong hate and you can just combo out.  Seal is needed because Chalice at 1 makes it too easy for them.

I didn't get to play any fish (and haven't for some time).  This seems to be a New England thing, although there were fish decks at the tourney last night just not in the winner's bracket. I hear Selkie Strike is good, but I haven't played against it since I 3-0'd in at GenCon last year.This is evidence of little I've been playing in general lately, so please take all of this with a grain of salt.

[Addolorisi]

Has the 4 Misty/1 Forest plan ever backfired on you?

I'm just coming back to t1 so my experience is still a bit limited, but I've seen a fair number of Pithing Needles game 2, primarily from Stax and though I have a diversified fetchbase, the card named the most is Polluted Delta (even when my opponent has already seen 3+ unique fetches). Maybe I've just hit a string of odd flukes, but I'm still worried about opening myself to Needle.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Has the 4 Misty/1 Forest plan ever backfired on you?

Never.  That does seem like an odd fluke, but I guess if the build became more popular or if you played with the same people, it could be an issue.  Often it's more that ghost quarter ruins your day.

[honestabe]

So, Four color tezz is thew the top deck?


Owen/Maher's list just does so many things right.

Personally, I hate spell pierce, but the list is so aggressive (almost like a legacy aggro/control deck) that I think 4 pierce, 2 drain is the correct decision, maybe 3 of each.  From watching the coverage, and playing via MWS it seems like you win MANY more games via confidant/trygon beats and playing a tight control game than you do via tinker for inkwell/vault key.

Jace breaks the mirror, but I find that Tezz does as well, so I cut 1 Jace for a Tezz.  I also dont know how much I like thoughtsieze in the current meta, especially while running 4 bobs and without sphinx as a way to gain life, but it's been fine so far, and natures claiming your own mox is a fine way to stay alive

Also, only 2 basics seems a little weak, but I suppose its needed  =/

[zeus-online]

That list looks great. Confidant and jace should win you any late game, the pierces and thoughtseizes are great at making sure the game lasts long enough for those two cards to take over.
They also help make sure that you can cast trygon predator early against MUD (By stopping a sphere, they should only have 1-2 spheres on their opener). The more expensive cards like Gifts and fact have probably been cut to allow room for jace's which are good against golems.

I think a few more drains would've been good though.

[Grand Inquisitor]

I haven't tested Owen's list, but it looks great.  It adopts the same grinding strategy the list here seeks out, but with different cards.  I didn't think the 4c manabase would survive that many spheres, but obviously it works.  The red blasts give you a solid hedge against fish and trygon and jace, while not my favorite cards on their own, look good in the context of the entire list.  I'm going to test it right now.

[The Atog Lord]

After playing Owen during Vintage Champs, I can say that his list has quite a good matchup against current Oath builds.

[chrispikula]

I've been playing 4 color Tezz for months.  I've felt good about my manabase vs Stax, and I've felt great against Oath (this is part of why I've been saying that Oath is a terrible deck for months). The fact is that most of the games you lose to MUD and Oath involve draws on their part where it just doesn't matter what is in your deck.

[honestabe]

What does your manabase look like?  Owen/Maher's scares me when facing stax

[chrispikula]

What does your manabase look like?  Owen/Maher's scares me when facing stax

I've made a bunch of top 8s lately so I have a lot of decklists posted in the tourney forum.  Last tourney my mana base was this:

2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 City of Brass
1 Tolarian Academy
6 fetchlands
8 artifact mana

[Rico Suave]

Chris also mentioned playing Trygon as his win condition back in like...February.

[chrispikula]

Chris also mentioned playing Trygon as his win condition back in like...February.

Yeah I've been sending David Earley decklists via email for 6 months now with Trygons, but I keep doing pretty well with more straightforward Tezz so I never really switched things up.

[Mr. Sligh]

It's two days I'm pondering on Owen's list and I personally have some no-answers question:
- Is playing 3x Jace 2.0 the right thing? Why does he cut Tezzeret? I think that a deck with 4 bobs, vault&key finisher and a silver bullet like pithing needle in the sideboard must play Tezzeret, in order to avoid unnecessary damages or to have a fast way to win...
- Does 2 reb and a pyroblast, and consequently the add of the 4th color, really represent the best solution against some 50-50, or lightly negative, matchups like oath or noble fish (or mirror match)? IMHO there are a lot of black or green cards that could be useful in these matchups; in fact, someone of them is already abused (nature's claim), while someone else is unused (e.g. Dispel, Guttural Response) or marginally considered (like Darkblast)...
- Why no one play Regrowth? Playing green without playing regrowth sounds like a counter-sense for me...
- (Last but not the least) Have you seen Owen's deck have no response on opponent's Tinker+Robot, both Sphinx and Inkwell Leviathan? He only runs 1x Nature's Claim on his maindeck... There are no bounce effects (Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor), spot removal or mass bouncers (Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild)... I think that is a big lack... It's true there are two Sower of Temptation in his sideboard, but those cards does not resolve the Inkwell Problem...
And what about the lack of a spot removal for creatures, like Confidants or Noble Fish creatures (Cold Eye-Selkie overall)... Why, playing 4 colors, doesn't he add a Fire/Ice for example? Personally I can't figure out me playing this deck without a Darkblast in the sideboard...

Concluding, I post my personal list, based on the my personal thoughts on the Owen's list:

1  Forest
2  Island (I think the third basic is necessarry, especially the second blue mana, against noble fish and artifact, or other denial decks)
4  Misty Rainforest
2  Polluted Delta
1  Tolarian Academy
3  Tropical Island
3  Underground Sea

4  Dark Confidant
1  Inkwell Leviathan
3  Trygon Predator

1  Ancestral Recall
1  Black Lotus
1  Brainstorm
1  Demonic Tutor
4  Force of Will
1  Hurkyl's Recall ("Removal" useful against artifact or opponent's robot)
1  Jace, the Mind Sculptor (if Mystical sucks I will add the second)
1  Mana Crypt
2  Mana Drain
1  Merchant Scroll
1  Mystical Tutor (need to test it to understand if it is useful or not)
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Sapphire
1  Sensei's Divining Top
1  Sol Ring
4  Spell Pierce
1  Tezzeret, the Seeker (I prefer the split 1/2 Jace + 1 Tezzeret)
3  Thoughtseize
1  Time Vault
1  Time Walk
1  Tinker
1  Vampiric Tutor
1  Voltaic Key
1  Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard

4  Leyline of the Void
3  Nature's Claim
1  Pithing Needle
4  Tarmogoyf
1  Darkblast
1  Tormod's Crypt (Probably using Tezzeret is greater than Jailer, but I need to test him)
1  Thada-Adel, Acquisitor (Fantastic card in mirror match)

[M.Solymossy]

I will reply to this when I get home from work, because those are some good questions.

[CHaPuZaS]

What does your manabase look like?  Owen/Maher's scares me when facing stax

I've made a bunch of top 8s lately so I have a lot of decklists posted in the tourney forum.  Last tourney my mana base was this:

(...manabase...)

Same fo me with a difference on the manabase:

1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
3 City of Brass
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

[Lemnear]

@sligh

Some of the issues bothered me too but I guess I could find some explanation.

Jace vs. Tezz: Owen did not play like a Combo-player. He controled the game till he beats his opponents to death. Did he even win a single game with vault? Jace bounces opponents creatures and go the Way with Bob and trygon. Jace solves sphinx; that's the reason for Players to switch back to inkwell. Additional bounce like chain of vapor is rarely needed. The exclusion of tezz is like the One of Mystical Tutor.

Adding Red: this gives him a edge over planeswalker on opponents side. Smart Move to protect His creatures of being bounces via jace or loose to a Random dropped tezz

Regrowth: First of all I guess this Is a Problem of space. And you have only 2 good Cards to return: ancestral and maybe tinker

[Mr. Sligh]

@sligh

Some of the issues bothered me too but I guess I could find some explanation.

Jace vs. Tezz: Owen did not play like a Combo-player. He controled the game till he beats his opponents to death. Did he even win a single game with vault? Jace bounces opponents creatures and go the Way with Bob and trygon. Jace solves sphinx; that's the reason for Players to switch back to inkwell. Additional bounce like chain of vapor is rarely needed. The exclusion of tezz is like the One of Mystical Tutor.

Adding Red: this gives him a edge over planeswalker on opponents side. Smart Move to protect His creatures of being bounces via jace or loose to a Random dropped tezz

Regrowth: First of all I guess this Is a Problem of space. And you have only 2 good Cards to return: ancestral and maybe tinker

I agree with you Lemnear... These could be probably the same reasons why Owen decides to play a 4c Tezz-less list... By the way the lack of a solution for opponent's Inkwell or other creatures, one overall Dark Confidant, is probably a weakness of his deck... Personally, after some test matches, I really enjoy to play Hurkyl's Recall and Darkblast (and I am 80-20 on the decision to cut the Mystical Tutor, even if post-side is a great tutor for Darkblast)...

Regarding the add of the 4th colour, I'm not so sure that three red cards can justify the change of a lot of side-plans... We all know Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast are very versatile cards: they could act as a counter or they could act as a removal... But let's analyze the matchups in which they could help us:
- Tez.decks (including Trygon Tezz/4c color Tezz ecc...): this is where Reb/Pyro give us the greatest advantage... They can be used like a sort of "vindicate" on opponent's Planeswalker and permit to cast ours...
- NobleFish: here I think Reb/Pyro is not a good choice... This deck runs 4 wasteland and a Strip Mine, plus Null Rod and post side probably something like Trygon Predator or Quasali Pridemage... Are you sure playing 3 red cards with only two sources of red mana (mox ruby and volcanic island, easily destroyable by the opponent) is the right thing? I guess no... I admit that could be great against Meddling Mage or Cold Eye-Selkie, but I think that's not a good side cards against NobleFish...
- Oath: Based on the lists I saw on deckcheck and morphling.de, Oath decks play the same number of counter spell that we play: 4 Force of Will 2 Mana Drain and 4 Spell Pierce... And in their side rarely appear cother counters like Negate or Dispel... So this is the question: why I have to side in 3 Re effects against a deck, whose winning cards is green, and except in the rare case he or she play Tyrant Oath, there are no blue creatures (ok someone plays Sphinx but the real problem is Terastodon and Iona)?

In conclusion, I believe that until someone told me that I'm going to play a tournament withan high percentage of mirror I refuse to play pthe 4th colour, in order to have a strongest manabase and a litle bit more defined side plan...

[Blovdek]

Helo, this is my take on vintage tezzertless tezz, i feel i had to reply due to the latest worries about the winning deck in Gen Con. I made some minor adjustements, due to thinking the metagame will change a bit...

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Sensei Divining Top

1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Trygon Predator (adding a swamp to main, to make manabase even better makes him a "little worse"
4 Dark Confidant

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (since now you are running 3 basics he gets a little better vs fish decks running wastelands, and i think he is the best
card drawing engine in matchups where card advantage is important, best bob companion and a nice alternative win condition. As i see it he just replaces
gifts, thirst and fact and gives you a steady way of card advantage over many turns where grinding out an opponent is important. I have to admitt that when
i saw 3 in the winning list i thought it was 2 many, but i think its the right decision)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoths Will

1 Natures Claim
4 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Drain
1 Diabolic Edict (answers anything you couldnt untill now and is kinda good vs anydeck in the field)
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

1 Tolarian Academy
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Tarmogoyf (great vs fish decks and vs workshop decks, which seems like a bye right now)
2 Yixlid Yailer
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Pithing Needle (combo and blue matchups, since im not running red)
1 Thoughtseize
3 Natures Claim

I like 2 play 3 basics main, because thoughseize with swamp vs some decks is really powerfull, because it lets you play bob 2nd turn and not get wastelanded. In general i just like decks, that have answers to anything and i think this deck really is very powerfull. I think workshop decks are in decline ATM since there is so much hate, and as well goes for the oath decks, because of so much trygon predator, jace and natures claim is floating arround, which are all problematic cards for oath decks. So adding 4 tarmogoyfs to the board and diabolic edict to the main is the right decision, since i see the metagame turning back to creature or combo decks.

In vintage i really like simple style control decks, as they give you good game plan throughout the whole game. And i think that is what this deck does. You know your card advantage is comming from bobs and jaces an trygons, so you just have to be worried about dissrupting your opponent with the pleny of desruption that this deck posesess. The sideboard also present an ability to transform your deck into a FISH-HATE deck vs some decks, which will make very favourouble matchups to impossible to lose matchups ...

Blovdek

[Lemnear]

I have no data how relevant red was in the end; may Bob or Owen will enlight us the Next few days. If your manabase and stability allows to splash red you can run it. Just to have an edge nothing gamebreaking I guess. I would not board the blasts vs. Fish there's better Things in the board.

If you play vs lot of fish instrad of mud I would consider coatl in the sb to turn into gro Game 2. Together with jace this is sick

[magic geek]

awesome thread.

I think the core to Tez is way smaller than 55.

I reckon this lot is the "core" 30 cards..

1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind (or Inky Leviathan)
4 Force of Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 Gifts Ungiven  (And/or Fact or Fiction)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Blue Mox
1 Black Mox
3 Blue Fetches
3 Underground Sea
1 Snow-covered Island
1 Tolarian Academy


I reckon this lot is the "25 Really strong cards that work"

1 White Mox
1 Green Mox
1 Red Mox
1 Mana Crypt
3 Dark Confidant
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Mana Drain
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Rebuild
1 Fire/Ice
2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Blue Fetches

If you look at the first group it is simply a different level of cardboard.
The two groups are literally the difference between a Blue Mox and a Green mox. The blue one is the one you want. The first group oozes power. The second group is strong, no argument, but it aint the reason the deck exists. The second group can be entirely switched and the deck is still playing the same gratuitous power that makes it tick.

I mean, if you had a choice between running two lots of the first group, or two lots of the second group, it aint hard to figure out. All the stupidly broken stuff is in the first group. The second group is just treading water compared to the godlike power in exhibit A.

I spoze I reckon this because I have ended up at a pretty close valley.
I use the core cards too, and similar stuff for the second group. but, No card for card discard any more.

Could someone tell me why having some Islands & Snow Covered Islands is Important?

So much effort is put in for the fire section of Fire and Ice.

[personalbackfire]

I reckon this lot is the "core" 30 cards..

1 Gifts Ungiven  

Could someone tell me why having some Islands & Snow Covered Islands is Important?

It's not important. However, people run Snow Covered Islands when they run Gifts Ungiven so that if they ever need to Gifts for some lands they can gifts for (Island, Snow Covered Island, X,X).

Unless you meant why running basics in general is a good idea... And the answer to that is so that you don't lose to Wasteland.

[magic geek]

   funny

So, if you get a first turn Gifts ungiven, what do you get?

[honestabe]

Surprisingly, I've found that Confidant Tezz is still and extremely viable option in today's meta.  Here's what I've been running

3 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn

5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

4 Dark Confidant
1 Mox Monkey
1 Sphinx of The Steel Wind

1 Sensei's Top
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Pithing Needle

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
2 Spell Pierce
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Repeal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Thirst for Knowledge

SB:
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Rack and Ruin
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Oxidda Scrapmelter
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Tormods Crypt
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Mountain

I find red to be a better auxilary color.  Not only do I prefer the red options to defeat shops, but it also opens up Reb effects to beat the gush and storm decks.

[marcb]

I actually agree that red is probably a better auxillary color. The only card that I would really miss from green is nature's claim. Also, I think that if I were going to add an auxillary color I might try to add both red and green, then you get access to Ancient Grudge, which kills Workshop and allows for REB as you mentioned. Maybe the following list


1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mana Drain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Doom Blade
3 Dark Confidant
2 Spell Pierce
1 REB
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tinker
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature’s Claim
1 Echoing Truth
1 Time Walk

Lands (17):
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 City of Brass
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Tropical Island
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

SB
4 Leyline of the void
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Yixlid Jailor
2 Perish
1 Doom Blade
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Greater Gargadon
1 REB

This list is probably not as good against the mirror or Gush decks as the one posted above, but it probaby annihilates shops and actually has game against Oath thanks to Nature's Claim Doomblade, and Greater Gargadon. My point in suggesting this deck is that if the auxillary color is there mostly for the sideboard, then having access to red and green might be the best option. This list has a chance against everything but Fish game 1, and a decent chance against everything post board.

[personalbackfire]

After doing reasonably well at bluebell last week (top 4) with trygon tezz I decided to play Tezz again yesterday at the Bloomsburg tournament.
This is what I played:

3 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
3 Islands
1 Black Lotus
5 Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
4 Force of Will
4 Dark Confidant
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Voltiac Key
1 Time Vault
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Bounce Spell
1 Tinker
1 Sphinx
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Yawgamoth’s Will
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
3 Mana Drain
3 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
1 Sower of Temptation

Sb:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
3 Nature Claims
1 Forest
3 Trygon Predator
2 Red Elemental Blast

I personally feel that Tezzeret style decks are the best blue decks available at the current moment.

I did pretty bad at the tournament for my standards going 3-2. I lost to MUD and Ichorid, while beating Oath, Ichorid and something else I completely forget.

I  love REB right now so I agree with everyone that wants to run that card. With people playing Gush again REB just got better then it already was. I don't agree with the fact that RED is better in the shop option. I think that Trygon is just too good not to run in that matchup. Yes he loses to Hellkite but not everyone is playing that card and its not like green doesn't have claim as well. I also think its completely fine to splash both colors which is what I did.

The maindeck Sower is the 60th card in my opinion and I don't really know what it should be. The other options I was considering was TFK and Mystical Tutor. It should prob just be Mystical to help for the Tinker play against MUD.

The other change I would make would be to run a Hurks in the sideboard over the 3rd claim. Since I am only boarding the 3rd claim against shops I feel alright trading it for another dedicated shop card. I lost a frustrating game 2 yesterday due to not drawing Trygon and getting locked out with Chalice at one. I had already used my hurks earlier in the game and felt like I could benefit from another one.

[Grand Inquisitor]

After doing reasonably well at bluebell last week (top 4) with trygon tezz I decided to play Tezz again yesterday at the Bloomsburg tournament.
This is what I played:

Having not played T1 in a while, I'm really interested to hear about some of your deck choices.

Can I assume you found Trygon too narrow and so decided to move it to the SB?
Have you tested the Lotus Cobra version, how did it compare?
Has preordain been good?  Everyone I talked to said it was too weak.  I'm especially surprised to see it over SDTop #2.
What was the MD bounce slot (or is it variable)?
How is the matchup against Gush decks?

[magic geek]

. . .Unless you meant why running basics in general is a good idea... And the answer to that is so that you don't lose to Wasteland.

or Dwarven(Blast) Miner, or Dustbowl, or Ghost Quarter ?

Obviously the correct answer to most of those is. . . Teferi's Response  


. . .Back to basics, or Price of Progress, or Tsabo's web ?




Also, if the last lot of decklists are compared there is an extremely strong backbone there, and a whole lot of other stuff around it.

[personalbackfire]

After doing reasonably well at bluebell last week (top 4) with trygon tezz I decided to play Tezz again yesterday at the Bloomsburg tournament.
This is what I played:

Having not played T1 in a while, I'm really interested to hear about some of your deck choices.

Can I assume you found Trygon too narrow and so decided to move it to the SB?
Have you tested the Lotus Cobra version, how did it compare?
Has preordain been good?  Everyone I talked to said it was too weak.  I'm especially surprised to see it over SDTop #2.
What was the MD bounce slot (or is it variable)?
How is the matchup against Gush decks?

1) Yea I found Trygon to be too narrow. I do think he is an all star in the MUD matchup and that is the reason I moved him over to the side. I think that he might had been better before blue players became torn on to play Tezzeret Style decks or Gush Decks, as he is underwhelming in the Gush match up.

2) I have tested against the Lotus Cobra version briefly and played against it in a tournament. That is the extent of my experience with or against it. All I can say about it is that I think spell pierce and is a weak card and that I can't see how that deck does well against most blue decks. The best thing about it is the Necro/Claim interaction, but in doing so it forces you to play 3 Claims maindeck, which I cant see being optimal against most decks. I also am not the biggest fan of Lotus Cobra in Vintage, as I don't think it does enough.

3) Yea I like Preordain. This kind of reminds me to an early Tezz discussion when people were talking about if they should include Ponder or not and if they would run more if it wasn't restricted. I think that Preordain gives you more options early on in the game which is always nice. It helps you dig for cards you could need, or filter through some junk. It is also nice that it doesn't require a fetch land like some of the other one casting cost blue cantrips. I could see 2-3 being a good number to run. I certainly wouldn't fault someone for playing another Top over one though.

Top is a really great card in the Control Mirror and against shops. It is possible that I should had included another one over the 3rd Preordain. To be honest with you I did not test the list before the tournament so I was just experimenting with the idea. The thing that I don't like about top is that it doesn't ever seem good until turn 2 at the earliest. Unless you have a Mox, if you just cast it turn one off a land, most of the time you aren't using it on your upkeep of turn two so it doesn't really do anything for a turn or so.

4) The bounce slot was a Hurkyl's Recall. I just copied and pasted the list from an email and when I type lists short hand I just write bounce instead of the actual card. I have found Rebuild to be too slow for Tezzeret style decks.

5) I think that matchup against Gush is good. You have a more consistent draw engine in Bob and are able to play a ton of disruption while using the most absurd 2 card combo.  I am constantly underwhelmed by Gush. As I said earlier in the thread I think Tezz style decks to be the best blue decks in vintage right now and one of the reasons why is the ability for it to beat other blue decks.