Single Card Discussion and strategies (Expedition Map)

[serracollector]

Expedition Map

Card Text:
2, Tap, Sacrifice Expedition Map: Search your library for a land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Colorless ANY land search.  3 mana, not hard to get on turn 1/2 in vintage.

Targets:

Bazaar
Strip/Waste
Academy
Gaea's Cradle (iffy)
LoA
Orchard
karakas (due to new eldrazi legends and iona)
Depths (with the vampire combo, dark rit is 3 mana right?)
mishra's workshop (mox and ancient works)
maze of ith....
Urborgh
Bojoko

sure there are others I am missing, but this card is essentially better than crop rotation since it is colorless. It can be used in any deck, and is not hard to get off.  I personally have been playing a 1 of it in any control deck with academy.  It has proven to be amazing.

Thought's, idea's, combos?  Please post.  Thank you.

[bluemage55]

3 mana to use makes it terrible.  Crop rotation not only costs 1 mana, but puts it directly into play.  This is just a horrible tutor.

A 3 mana tutor needs to approach the power of Intuition.  This falls far, far short.

[Evenpence]

3 mana to use makes it terrible.  Crop rotation not only costs 1 mana, but puts it directly into play.  This is just a horrible tutor.

This card really isn't similar to crop rotation at all - with the exception that you search your library for the best land card you have.

Academy and Strip Mine are by far the best targets for this thing, and both are in completely different decks.  I don't see this being as a Vintage staple, but definitely playable in the right deck.  Meadbert is trying to break it in a Stax shell on the Vintage Improvement Forum.  It's a really interesting idea and has a lot of potential.  I see speed as a problem (it costs 3, after all).

However, you don't have to pay all three at once, and it cantrips (always for the land you want).  Crop rotation is always card disadvantage (you have to sacrifice a land).  Sure, it puts it directly into play.  Crop rotation is also green and can be a very dead card.  There's also the issue of it being countered.  Crop rotation getting countered is much worse than this card getting countered.

I can see it making lots of creamy goodness inside a Tezz-like shell.  You leave Mana Drain open but opponent doesn't do anything during their turn, so you sac it during their EOT to go get academy and power into something ridiculous.

If you can find room for it, it seems like a very playable card in a blue based control deck.

[serracollector]

Exactly evenpence, I have been testing it in a tezz-sheel, and that exact scenerio came up, and at eot got academy to power out Gifts ftw.  Dropping it turn 1 with a mox leaving blue open for spell pierce, then turn two popping it for academy with a mox or 3 in play is great.  It helps speed things up quite a bit.  Or even using it in stax to get that red mana needed for a welder lets say.  3 mana is niether hard nor horrible for a tutor, especially colorless with no life loss or card disadvantage.

[bluemage55]

If you can find room for it, it seems like a very playable card in a blue based control deck.

The problem is, what kind of card are you cutting for it?  You need to consider the opportunity cost for this card.

Running this in a non-disruption/removal, non-threat, non-land slot means dropping a Dark Confidant, Sensei's Divining Top, or Crucible of Worlds.  How is this better than any of those?

Exactly evenpence, I have been testing it in a tezz-sheel, and that exact scenerio came up, and at eot got academy to power out Gifts ftw.  Dropping it turn 1 with a mox leaving blue open for spell pierce, then turn two popping it for academy with a mox or 3 in play is great.  It helps speed things up quite a bit.  Or even using it in stax to get that red mana needed for a welder lets say.  3 mana is niether hard nor horrible for a tutor, especially colorless with no life loss or card disadvantage.

Post your list.  I'm willing to bet that there's a better card you could be running in that slot.

[Evenpence]

The problem is, what kind of card are you cutting for it?  You need to consider the opportunity cost for this card.

Running this in a non-disruption/removal, non-threat, non-land slot means dropping a Dark Confidant, Sensei's Divining Top, or Crucible of Worlds.  How is this better than any of those?

Tezz could cut a Duress or Thoughtseize to accompany this pretty easily, I think.  That's just an example.  The cards you provided are very good, I don't think anyone is going to cut those cards for this.  The 3rd or 4th X or Y of something that you're not really sure about can be Expedition Map.

The biggest downside to this card (which you didn't mention yet, but I will for you), is what do you do when you already have Academy out?

[bluemage55]

Tezz could cut a Duress or Thoughtseize to accompany this pretty easily, I think.  That's just an example.  The cards you provided are very good, I don't think anyone is going to cut those cards for this.  The 3rd or 4th X or Y of something that you're not really sure about can be Expedition Map.

That's not a relevant example.  Duress and Thoughtseize are disruption slots, not card drawing/selection.  If you're putting in Expedition Map, it's because you feel that it fulfills the cad drawing/selection role better than an existing alternative.

The biggest downside to this card (which you didn't mention yet, but I will for you), is what do you do when you already have Academy out?

You just cycle it for a fetch if you're not running/needing Strip Mine/Wasteland/LoA, but that doesn't overcome the fundamental problem that even at it's best Expedition Map is inferior to card selection that is currently used.

[serracollector]

That is based upon one deck.  You guys assume "confidants, tutors, restricted blue list.dec, etc", but I am talking it can work in stax, works great with crucible, and stax has a million different variants that can easily fit one or two of these in it.  Also if you play something that returns artifacts to from grave, such as goblin welder, you can have ANY land find recursion.  Lands in magic are already pretty powerful, and getting more new abilities constantly. 

Mono black can fit one or two in to find:
Depths
Urborgh
Strip/Waste
Bojoko

Mapping for bojoko to stop that y will or slow down dredge deck for a turn is great also.

If karakas became a big deal in say, fish/w/g beats type decks, they would already have crop or sylvan scrying, so I wouldn't see its use in those decks either.

My "tezz" deck currently is mono blue, so I have room for 1 map, and have found it great.  Its rare to get on first turn, but when it does it can even effect other peopls game play, becuase they know now that next turn:

A:  Ur gonna strip one of their lands
B:  Your gonna get a bazaar or academy (more than likely)

either of these situations change the plans of the board.  That is an effective tool.

Not just stax, but 5-color stax MAY use one in addition to a crop rotation since it can get any land for colorless mana, can be cast with a workshop, and popped with moxen, and it is welderable, and works great with crucible.

There are other decks/situations I am sure, but these are the ones off the top of my head.

I am NOT saying it's better than "black/blue tutor X, Y, and Z", but in certain decks,  in quite a few, I could see it's use, and the fact it CAN work in almost any deck in t1, is why I think it will see use.

[nineisnoone]

3 mana to use makes it terrible.  Crop rotation not only costs 1 mana, but puts it directly into play.  This is just a horrible tutor.

A 3 mana tutor needs to approach the power of Intuition.  This falls far, far short.

Crop Rotation is terrible in my eyes.  Intuition is an entirely different card.  And, sure Intuition's better.  Demonic Tutor is better too, but neither comparison is particularly relevant.

It's great in a Workshop deck.  The main reason why it doesn't see play is because Null Rod is generally better and hitting your own Moxen plus this card is hurting yourself far too much. 

Running it in anything else, though, I feel is a poor choice.  Maybe if you are running Trinket Mage you can run one of these as part of your search package, but otherwise I'm not sure a deck like that would have a worthwhile land package.  I guess there is also Dark Depths, generally though I'm not all that big on that combo, though I recognize it as legit.  I don't see it as being better than the other options to search though.

[bluemage55]

Also if you play something that returns artifacts to from grave, such as goblin welder, you can have ANY land find recursion.

Only if it's worth pitching artifacts in play to find lands.  As your main targets are often single copy, you run out of good targets quickly.

Lands in magic are already pretty powerful, and getting more new abilities constantly. 

Sure, but unless you're building a deck around lands you're not going to run most of them.  Despite the constant influx of lands, manabases have remained relatively static in Vintage.

Mono black can fit one or two in to find:
Depths
Urborgh
Strip/Waste
Bojoko

Mapping for bojoko to stop that y will or slow down dredge deck for a turn is great also.

Monoblack has access to Grim Tutor for tutoring.

My "tezz" deck currently is mono blue, so I have room for 1 map, and have found it great.  Its rare to get on first turn, but when it does it can even effect other peopls game play, becuase they know now that next turn:

A:  Ur gonna strip one of their lands
B:  Your gonna get a bazaar or academy (more than likely)

either of these situations change the plans of the board.  That is an effective tool.

So is flashing Intuition, TfK, or Tinker if you had those in your hand, but we don't usually do that.  It's not at all accurate to consider revealing this threat to be an advantage.

But when you say that your list is monoblue, then I'm more iniclined to believe that the card may have a place, since that naturally impacts your card selection options substantially.  However, you're then going to have to explain why a monoblue Tez list is better than the Confidant using lists that have been dominant.

Not just stax, but 5-color stax MAY use one in addition to a crop rotation since it can get any land for colorless mana, can be cast with a workshop, and popped with moxen, and it is welderable, and works great with crucible.

You need 2 moxen.  But yes, Stax is the most reasonable home, as nineisnone has pointed out.

I am NOT saying it's better than "black/blue tutor X, Y, and Z", but in certain decks,  in quite a few, I could see it's use, and the fact it CAN work in almost any deck in t1, is why I think it will see use.

That's a weak argument.  For a card to see use (by competitive players anyway), it needs to be good enough to replace a card in a competitive deck, at the very least for certain metagames if not always.  If you want to argue that Expedition Map is viable, then show a competive list where it is a proper addition.

[serracollector]

Mana:(27)
3 x Misty Rainforest
3 x Polluted Delta
1 x Tolarian Academy
6 x Island
10 x SoLoMoxen/Petal/Crypt/Vault/
4 x Grim Monolith

Toys:(9)
1 x Time Vault
4 x Voltaic Key
1 x Sensei's Diving Top
1 x Time Walk
1 x Reconstruction
1 x Repeal

Draw: (6)
1 x Ancestral Recall
1 x Thirst for Knowledge
1 x Ponder
1 x Brainstorm
1 x Fact or Fiction
1 x Stroke of Genious

Tutors: (9)
1 x Mystical Tutor
1 x Merchant Scroll
1 x Expedition Map
1 x Tinker
1 x Gifts Ungiven
4 x Transmute Artifact

Disruption: (4)
4 x Force of Will

Win conditions: (5)
4 x Tezzeret
1 x Inkwell Leviathan

Side Board: (15)
3 x Threads of Disloyalty
4 x Cursed Totem
3 x Hurkyll's recall
3 x Tormod's Crypt (or ravenous trap, not sure yet)


This is the mono blue tezz build I have been running quite successfully as of late.  It makes up for in disruption with speed and consistency.  When you play with nothing but bombs, and tutors to get bombs, eventually one goes off.  Expedition Map makes this happen quicker, and more consistently.

[Grand Inquisitor]

This card is absolutely too slow for Tezzeret (wayfarer and reliquary would be better).  However, I don't see why it couldn't fit into workshops easily.

In a heavy sphere list this could be the card that could grab strip mine (if you have crucible) or academy ruins (if you have wire or smokestack in grave).  If you're flooded or stalled it gets canopy or bazaar.  The fact that it acts as a toolbox to answer stuff like tinker>bot is gravy.

Opportunity cost is the thing here, you probably only run 2-3x, but it's very different in cost and ability when compared with stuff like intuition or gamble.

[Neonico]

Something to mention : All stax decks aren't 5cStax....
Having acces to a "Crop Rotation like" spell in a mono brown stax shell is also pretty interesting.

[BruiZar]

I dunno, going shop, map, sphere, activate on turn 2 seems pretty strong, especially if it fetches a strip mine.

[madmanmike25]

I have played with Map and it's solid.  No, it's not for every deck though.  If you aren't playing with Crucibles you aren't really abusing it properly.

Besides getting the Strip-lock, Map has been pretty good when I have to clear the board with Smokestack.  I just get Shop and leave it in my hand until the board resets, then have a good advantage over my opponent when the Smoke finally goes away.  That's of course when I would lose if not for amping Smokestack. 

Even if you don't have Crucible out yet, pulling another Shop out is usually handy in any mirror.

Well, opportunity cost has been said several times here so I'll go ahead and suggest Serracollector could cut the Map for Personal Tutor and would probably be better off getting Tinker faster.

My main concern is that Map goes really well with a mana denial strategy and yet at the same time is almost mutually exclusive with Null Rod.  That's why I don't think running a full set of 4 is optimal.  It is vintage viable for sure, but even Shop decks should consider the opportunity cost of running this card. 

I dunno, going shop, map, sphere, activate on turn 2 seems pretty strong, especially if it fetches a strip mine.

It can be.  In this situation if you are using your turn 2 land drop to activate Map then you have to wait until turn 3 to actually use Strip.  Also note that turn 2 you would be limited to only 2 mana because of Sphere and that might prevent you from playing another threat like Lodestone, Tangle, or Smoke.  I think that may help illustrate on why I think Map can be a great utility card, but not an auto include for all Shop decks.  The 1cc makes it a tad deceptive for when you actually get to use Map.

[BruiZar]

True, there are numerous ways to get 2 non-shop mana in the second turn (Many of which cost a land drop, but there are  ways to generate the mana without spending a land drop too).

[Grand Inquisitor]

1cc makes it a tad deceptive for when you actually get to use Map.

That's also why I see it as a later game play in a sphere list.  I've seen a decent amount of games where, in their zeal to deny mana, shop decks can't get in a crucible or smokestack (which would be game ending) because of lack of mana.  The Map will be easy to cast through your own spheres and then get workshop for a bomb, or one of the cards I mentioned above to seal the deal.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

This falls into the category of "almost good enough". It is a solid card but I doubt it will ever be the best option for a deck slot unless you're mono brown and really need some fixing.

[bluemage55]

This is the mono blue tezz build I have been running quite successfully as of late.  It makes up for in disruption with speed and consistency.  When you play with nothing but bombs, and tutors to get bombs, eventually one goes off.  Expedition Map makes this happen quicker, and more consistently.

So in other words, you're not really playing a Tez deck, since that generally implies a control shell.  Rather, you're playing with what looks to be a bad mono-blue Vault-Key combo deck.  In which case you're going to have to explain how this is viable when it rolls over to Null Rod, as well as why this would be faster or more consistent than Steel City Vault, especially when the latter is much more resilient.

Regardless, I still don't see Expedition Map as being ideal in your deck.  If you're going to play a (bad) combo deck, you're probably going to want Impulse over this, and this doesn't even begin to address the fact that you really need more disruption even more badly.

[Cyberpunker]

But the problem with decks that would use Expedition Map is that tutoring for a land is a great effect. But wouldn't there be other better alternatives? (Metalworker combo, Crop Rotation, Intuition)

Expedition Map fits in with Fabricate in my opinion. It will work very well in Legacy but will only work in Vintage if all other options are exhausted.

[TheShop]

3 mana to use makes it terrible.  Crop rotation not only costs 1 mana, but puts it directly into play.  This is just a horrible tutor.

A 3 mana tutor needs to approach the power of Intuition.  This falls far, far short.

Crop Rotation is terrible in my eyes.  Intuition is an entirely different card.  And, sure Intuition's better.  Demonic Tutor is better too, but neither comparison is particularly relevant.

It's great in a Workshop deck.  The main reason why it doesn't see play is because Null Rod is generally better and hitting your own Moxen plus this card is hurting yourself far too much. 

Running it in anything else, though, I feel is a poor choice.  Maybe if you are running Trinket Mage you can run one of these as part of your search package, but otherwise I'm not sure a deck like that would have a worthwhile land package.  I guess there is also Dark Depths, generally though I'm not all that big on that combo, though I recognize it as legit.  I don't see it as being better than the other options to search though.

I find crop rotation to be amazingly strong in Stax... Your run several utility lands and it allows you to have a workshop on turn 1 instead of random 5color land.  If finding strip mine is worth activating bazaar multiple times just to put it in the yard with crucible...then putting it into play for 1 green is strong.  True enough, I have not found another particularly relevant use for Crop rotation yet.

My suggestion may be to try this in The Deck.  They are slowing the game down enough to use the card more like a utility finder than a combo enabler.  It would grab that strip mine on those occasions when you are sitting on crucible + mox monkey.

All in all, I am not really impressed with this card.