Doomsday post RoE

[median]

RoE doomsday
With The printing of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn doomsday has a really good win condition again. While the following list needs work I think the concept is solid. I even think it's enough for doomsday to make a comeback, here are the standard piles.

Top
shelldock isle
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
timewalk
anything
anything
bottom

or

Top
shelldock isle
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
shellack isle
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
anything
Bottom

the goal is to play a shelldock isle and get your Emrakul, the Aeons Torn out for free, on your free turn you attack for 15 and draw either time walk or another shelldock and do it again. the great thing about this is you have the standard brainstorm/gush/ponder storm piles to work with, and if you have a shelldock isle in your hand you can use that as a way into your doomsday pile for the standard pile.
heres a list.


4 doomsday
1 tinker
1 sphinx of the steel wind
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
1 mox jet
1 mox sapphire
1 black lotus
1 yawgmoth's will
1 time walk
1 tendrils of agony
1 ancestral recall
1 brainstorm
1 ponder
1 gush
4 force of will
4 duress
1 mystical tutor
1 merchant scroll
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
4 lim-dul's vault
4 shelldock isle
4 misty rainforest
3 underground sea
2 polluted delta
1 island
2 swamp
1 rebuild
1 chain of vapor

The shelldock isle is a way into the pile as much as gush or brainstorm ever were, if you have one in your hand you have the equivalent of as much. I threw in the lim-dul's vaults because because it was getting hard to run force, and I wanted something that could double as a 3 black mana and something else in a pinch.
off colour moxes aren't really working for me in this, maybe i need to do something differently?
Personal tutor might be worth doing in this, I really don't know
this is at about tps speed and could be brought up to the same resilience, if not more so. it can be completely graveyard independent and suffers very little when hit with spheres.

[Yare]

Interesting idea. I would note that trying to get second Emrakul into play is not really advised as Emrakul is legendary. I am also concerned that the deck will be a little slow if you're intending to Doomsday, pass the turn, draw Shelldock Isle, play it, pass the turn, win. I think an alternative plan would probably involve something like Ancestral for Shelldock Isle plus Time Walk or Amulet of Vigor or something to that effect (Final Fortune if you're really desperate for that extra turn) to try to make sure that you win the turn after Doomsday resolves. Passing twice doesn't seem particularly desirable.

[LotusHead]

This certainly looks interesting.

I'm curious to see if it works out. Kudos!

[median]

Interesting idea. I would note that trying to get second Emrakul into play is not really advised as Emrakul is legendary. I am also concerned that the deck will be a little slow if you're intending to Doomsday, pass the turn, draw Shelldock Isle, play it, pass the turn, win. I think an alternative plan would probably involve something like Ancestral for Shelldock Isle plus Time Walk or Amulet of Vigor or something to that effect (Final Fortune if you're really desperate for that extra turn) to try to make sure that you win the turn after Doomsday resolves. Passing twice doesn't seem particularly desirable.

The way I thought it would work was that Emrakul, the Aeons Torn would be treated as though he was cast from your hand normally, because of the wording on shelldock isle.  I think this needs to be cleared up.
If this does work the way I hope it does, then the second Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is just there to replace the first and buy you another free turn.

[covetousrat]

Very nice discovery there Median. I have always been a strong advocate of Doomsday/RItual decks but I feel that previous versions are too unstable. As for your first pile there, wouldnt Shelldock Isle needs U and TAP to use its ability? If your just doomsday, and and pass the turn, you draw Shelldock Isle and hideaway Emrakul? Correct me if Im wrong. I think you need an ancestral Recall/Gush somewhere. But with Ancestral recall you wont have enough cards in your deck for two attack phases.

I think you souldnt bee running so many rituals without draw7s. Have you try out Senseis Divining top? How does this deck perform as compared to the traditional Doomsday with Minds desire and R/D. A very interesting discovery here. Cheers

[Troy_Costisick]

Instead of Gush, you might want See Beyond or Lat Nam's Legacy to shuffle back Emrakul if you draw him.

[Evenpence]

Gah, Brandon Adams and I have been working on a Shelldock Isle - Doomsday - Em deck for about three weeks now.

*sadface*

Our cat has been let out of the bag.  We've made a list up in legacy that we're fairly sure is the best deck in the format.  I don't have that list on me, but we run something like 8-11 disruption (including force of will and misdirection) and have a turn 2-3 goldfish.  That's a storm list.  Sensei's Divining Top is pretty awesome in any doomsday list, btw. 

I've tried to port the deck to Vintage but haven't had a lot of success.  The deck is too slow if your Isle gets wastelanded in Vintage.  In Legacy, you have a pretty awesome backup plan when you Doomsday.  My testing has been *much* worse in Vintage, but I've also tested it less a good bit.

[Cyberpunker]

You would have to pass the turn once you play Doomsday unless you can get the Hideaway land right away. That would mean you give your opponent 2 turns before Emrakul comes out.

How do you 2 deal with that? Have you thought of a plan?

I am worried that this may be too slow in both Legacy and Vintage...

[Yare]

Interesting idea. I would note that trying to get second Emrakul into play is not really advised as Emrakul is legendary. I am also concerned that the deck will be a little slow if you're intending to Doomsday, pass the turn, draw Shelldock Isle, play it, pass the turn, win. I think an alternative plan would probably involve something like Ancestral for Shelldock Isle plus Time Walk or Amulet of Vigor or something to that effect (Final Fortune if you're really desperate for that extra turn) to try to make sure that you win the turn after Doomsday resolves. Passing twice doesn't seem particularly desirable.

The way I thought it would work was that Emrakul, the Aeons Torn would be treated as though he was cast from your hand normally, because of the wording on shelldock isle.  I think this needs to be cleared up.
If this does work the way I hope it does, then the second Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is just there to replace the first and buy you another free turn.

You should get the extra turn. The problem is that you play Doomsday, pass the turn, draw Shelldock Isle, play it (and hideaway), pass the turn yet again (since Shelldock Isle comes onto the battlefield tapped), THEN the next turn you get to use the combo. This is just too slow, I think. Regarding playing the second Emrakul, yeah you'll get an extra turn, but how do you intend to win once both Emrakuls die? Unless I'm missing something.

[pierce]

The deck is too slow if your Isle gets wastelanded in Vintage. 

wastelands stock is very high right now. your design for this deck must take this into account.

interesting find, gl with the inherent puzzles that occur with building a doomsday list

[Evenpence]

The deck is too slow if your Isle gets wastelanded in Vintage.

wastelands stock is very high right now. your design for this deck must take this into account.

interesting find, gl with the inherent puzzles that occur with building a doomsday list

Doomsday honestly isn't any harder to figure out piles than Gifts or something like Fact or Fiction.

You would have to pass the turn once you play Doomsday unless you can get the Hideaway land right away. That would mean you give your opponent 2 turns before Emrakul comes out.

How do you 2 deal with that? Have you thought of a plan?

I am worried that this may be too slow in both Legacy and Vintage...

Sensei's Divining Top.

Most decks in Vintage have a goldfish of turn 3 or later.  The ample disruption that the deck can play is more than enough to hold them off until later (you have far more disruption than any deck in Vintage).

The problem is Wasteland, straight-up.  If they waste your Shelldock Isle, you have to try for a funny storm plan.  It rarely works out.

Like I said, I don't have exceptionally high hopes for this deck in Vintage.

It works out really well in Legacy because you just put it in a Tendrils shell w/ 4x petal, 4x LED, 2-4x Chrome Mox + 4-12 disruption.

[Cyberpunker]

Great idea. Now I want to try it too. Would it be too much to ask for the legacy list?   I understand if it is though.

[median]

This is the thread on the source legacy forums regarding the combo
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17048-%5BDeck%5D-Shelldrazi/page2

[Adan]

Why should you need 4 Shelldock Isle? You only want 1 of each Emrakul and Skelldock Isle, the remaining slots can be filled with Pithing Needle (to combat Wasteland) and Sleight of Hands (seriously, Doomsday without Cantrips suck). On a sidenote, you have to stack your piles a bit differently with Sleight of Hand, but it will be a fine option when it comes to breaking into *brokeness*.

[median]

Why should you need 4 Shelldock Isle? You only want 1 of each Emrakul and Skelldock Isle, the remaining slots can be filled with Pithing Needle (to combat Wasteland) and Sleight of Hands (seriously, Doomsday without Cantrips suck). On a sidenote, you have to stack your piles a bit differently with Sleight of Hand, but it will be a fine option when it comes to breaking into *brokeness*.

The shelldock isle is what you want to cantrip into, thats also why there are four. Thats also why there are no cantrips.
The main problem right now is that shelldock isle basically comes out tapped. I'm not sure how I want to handle that.

[Portalis]

Can add that artifact that allows your come into play tapped untapped. Forgot the name .

[Portalis]

Amulet of vigor. That is it. Could not edit my last post here on my cell here.

[Doomsday]

I ordered these Shelldocks after seeing the Legacy deck idea last week, then realized that you have to pass the turn after playing them

[AmbivalentDuck]

This is Vintage: you could even use Fastbond and Minamo.

[Doomsday]

What Minamo?  The Minamo land only untaps Legendary things, which Shelldock isn't.

[Chill79]

This is Vintage: you could even use Fastbond and Minamo.

you meant:fastbond+Deserted Temple??

[goober]

Twiddle!

[AmbivalentDuck]

This is Vintage: you could even use Fastbond and Minamo.

you meant:fastbond+Deserted Temple??

Doh, yeah.

[median]

Just to make this easy, lets put a mind's desire in. Then you can use one of the many,

<Top>
ancestral
ritual
lotus
will
mind's desire
tendril's
<bottom>

variants.
You can even play the shelldock isle on you first turn to grab one of the above cards and hold onto it until you go off.
The exact list of cards that you can have in hand and use to augment the win like 23. Theres 4 sheeldock, 8 ritual, 2 eldazi, 1 lotus, 1 time walk, 1 ponder, brainstorm, 1 will, 1 desire, 1 gush, 1 tendrils, 1 ancestral. get one of those and cast a doomsday and you win.


Edit, it's 4:40 and I had a weird train of thought.
1, twiddle might be good -> cloud of fairies was mentioned in the legacy version and is better -> time walk is better than cloud of faeries.
! No need for twiddle.

[nineisnoone]

The problem is Wasteland, straight-up.  If they waste your Shelldock Isle, you have to try for a funny storm plan.  It rarely works out.

You could go with a mana disruption package with Stifle. 

On this list I'd see...

-4 Cabal, +3-4 Null Rod
-3 Shelldock, +3 Wasteland
-4 Duress, +4 Spell Pierce
-1 Scroll/Tinker/Sphinx, +3 Stifle
-4 Vault, +4 Confidant/See Beyond
-1 Chain, +1 Massacre/Infest

I'm not sure if I'd run an alt win, since Doomsday by natures is very committal.

[nineisnoone]

Edit: NEver mind.

[median]

Regarding wasteland, even fish doesn't play them these days in my area so I'm not worried. The back up tendrils plan and back up tinker plan should be enough if i'm desperate.

I ordered these Shelldocks after seeing the Legacy deck idea last week, then realized that you have to pass the turn after playing them

There are piles that allow for you to win without passing the turn
<top>
brainstorm
time walk
lotus
shelldock isle
emrakul
<bottom>
 that works

The problem is Wasteland, straight-up.  If they waste your Shelldock Isle, you have to try for a funny storm plan.  It rarely works out.

You could go with a mana disruption package with Stifle. 

On this list I'd see...

-4 Cabal, +3-4 Null Rod
-3 Shelldock, +3 Wasteland
-4 Duress, +4 Spell Pierce
-1 Scroll/Tinker/Sphinx, +3 Stifle
-4 Vault, +4 Confidant/See Beyond
-1 Chain, +1 Massacre/Infest

I'm not sure if I'd run an alt win, since Doomsday by natures is very committal.

Can we please try to be constructive here, this is in the development forum for a reason. That doesn't mean it should be trashed and I should build fish  .
This is one of the most fun fast and easy to play lists I'm come across since flash hulk. The only thing I could possibly think of that would make it better would be 4 gush.

In a different direction; does any one have any thoughts on adding an oath plan? Theres only two creatures and they're both possible oath targets, shelldock isle also has nice synergy with oathing.

[Doomsday]

Regarding wasteland, even fish doesn't play them these days in my area so I'm not worried. The back up tendrils plan and back up tinker plan should be enough if i'm desperate.

I ordered these Shelldocks after seeing the Legacy deck idea last week, then realized that you have to pass the turn after playing them

There are piles that allow for you to win without passing the turn
<top>
brainstorm
time walk
lotus
shelldock isle
emrakul
<bottom>
 that works

So you draw Brainstorm and play it, putting card 1 and card 2 back.  You play the Shelldock (exiling Emrakul), Lotus and Time Walk.
On Time Walk turn you draw Card 1 and cast Emrakul, giving you another Time Walk.
On the second Time Walk turn you draw Card 2, attack with Emrakul for 15 and wipe their board.  Luckily for them they don't need any board position because they win on your next draw step.

[Darkenslight]

Amulet of Vigor?

Seems strong with Hideaway.  Also useful for other gubbins.

[median]

Regarding wasteland, even fish doesn't play them these days in my area so I'm not worried. The back up tendrils plan and back up tinker plan should be enough if i'm desperate.

I ordered these Shelldocks after seeing the Legacy deck idea last week, then realized that you have to pass the turn after playing them

There are piles that allow for you to win without passing the turn
<top>
brainstorm
time walk
lotus
shelldock isle
emrakul
<bottom>
 that works

So you draw Brainstorm and play it, putting card 1 and card 2 back.  You play the Shelldock (exiling Emrakul), Lotus and Time Walk.
On Time Walk turn you draw Card 1 and cast Emrakul, giving you another Time Walk.
On the second Time Walk turn you draw Card 2, attack with Emrakul for 15 and wipe their board.  Luckily for them they don't need any board position because they win on your next draw step.

Yeah thats right... my bad I had done the pile using cloud of faeries and just threw a time walk in its place because I assumed it was a better card.
Use cloud of faeries, that solves the draw step issue.


Edit: I don't think Amulet of vigor is the card for this deck but I could be wrong. I also don't think it works in this case as I believe the card has to say enters the battlefield tapped on it which the hideaway mechanic dodges.