Feedback please - Enchantress Deck Help

[Fraggle]

Hello all-

Please take a look at my list below, and see if you can help me improve it at all.

Its a fun flowing Chanty Beatz:

Creatures:
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Kor Spiritdancer
1 Alaborn Zelot
1 Abu Ja'far

Enchantment - Auras
2 Flickering Ward
2 Frog Tongue
3 Nature's Chosen
4 Rancor
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl

Enchantments
2 Enchantress's Presence
3 Seal of Primordium
2 Runed Halo
2 Sylvian Libary

Mana
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus

Side Board:
4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Titaina's Song
3 Aura of Silence
2 Swords to Plowshares

Main (perhaps no-so-obvious) things:

The goal is to put all the enchant lands on 1 land.  Then use Nature's Chosen to untap it multiple times in a turn for more enchantment/aura casting - card drawing fun.

Abu Ja'Far, and Alaborn Zelot are quick and dirty answers to tinkered / oathed fatties.  Plus they are white and are good targets for Nature's Chosen.

Toughest thing it has faced without a SOLID answer was an Oathed DSC


Thoughts?

[zeus-online]

How do you stop a quick tendrils or time vault/key?

[TopSecret]

Which decks are you playing against? What do you want to improve about the deck? Do you want to improve certain matchups?

Without some kind of context or initial direction for this thread, it's difficult for people to give feedback except for random card suggestions and assertions that this deck scoops to some other deck or common card combination. If this was some kind of combo deck that needed to be streamlined for speed with minimal disruption, it would be a different story. But this deck looks like it has to consider its opponent and the metagame in order to succeed and receive suggestions in a productive way.

Also, it might be a good idea to play 1-2 Auratog to combo with Rancor.

Ancestral Mask might be worth consideration as well.

[Fraggle]

How do you stop a quick tendrils or time vault/key?

The best this build has is Runed Halo for Tendrils and Seal of Primordium for Vault key.

Which decks are you playing against? What do you want to improve about the deck? Do you want to improve certain matchups?

Without some kind of context or initial direction for this thread

That's fair, and I had to think about that a bit.  I currently don't play tournaments, and haven't for over a decade, but my friends and I like net decking the tier 1 decks and seeing how they work.  My interests are in seeing if there is an archetype that I can help develop, to get me wanting to go to tourneys again.  (I'm over blue)

I know there is Dredge, but for whatever reason I like enchantress decks, and I'd like to make one work. So I made this thread with what I have, and seeing what direction would be best for me to go from here.

So I'm trying to find practical enchantress solutions to beating common wins.  i.e. Runed Halo for Tendrils, Seal of Primordium for Oath, Abu Ja'far for not to evasive fatties.  Is there any general direction this deck would have to take in order for it to be more well rounded, and competitive?

I think I'm going to have to loose the Wild Growths \ Utopia Sprawls and Nature's Chosen only to free up slots for richer draws.

How many decks would Moat Shut down? ...or Solitary Confinement?

So then I'm thinking I should go the Enlightened Tutor, Sterling Grove type build for more reliable answers.

So in general what would it have to look like, defensive control?  ...combo?  Aggressive?

Thoughts, suggestions or is that too vague now and I should just keep tinkering by myself?

[Delha]

As someone for whom Enchantress has been a pet deck since the end of when Keeper was around, I'd say this: If you're looking for something seriously competitive, you'd best look at a different deck.

Enchantress does a lot of cute things, but is simply not fast enough to race. A good start for this deck is Land->Mox->Enchantress. In comparison, consider Land->Mox->Oath or Shop->Mox->Golem. All of these are solid (but not unheard of) starts that put the opponent a step away from wrapping up the game.

After that, you need to be able to interact, and Enchantress simply doesn't do that nearly as well as Sphere effects on the play, or FoW on the anytime.
--She has access to a lot of backbreaking enchantments (ie. Choke, City of Solitude, Runed Halo, Solitary Confinement, Aura of Silence), but lacks fast tutoring to get the right ones.
--She lacks the means to force through those bombs (barring splash for duress effects)
--Most bombs are fat targets. Fueling their FOF with your drained Choke is miserable.
--Too much drawing the wrong answer. For every game against Gifts where I landed Pariah on their DSC, I would lose two where I just ate a Tendrils and died.
--Drawing too many lands. Even when the draw engine is running smooth, she often chokes out

The old build that worked best for me involved a lot of silver bullet enchantments, but the big problem I found was that by the time I could crack a Sterling Grove, the opponent had spent at least a couple turns setting up, and could either play around it, or just win before I drew it.

In a lot of ways, your build reminds me of a more fun/silly aggro build I had (as opposed to the more controlling version I mentioned earlier). Here are the first few problems that jump out at me with your build: 
--You fold to Chalice at 1 (no spells) OR 2 (no Enchantresses).
--You rely heavily on the attack phase, but lack ways to buy extra turns.
--You only run 6 targetable creatures (barring ESG), but 11 creature enchants.

Hope this helps, and sorry to be a downer. I still love Enchantress, but long ago accepted that I wouldn't be winning anything big with her. She can easily steal games here and there, but not consistently enough to be T1.

[madmanmike25]

Maindeck Seals would help the Vault issue.  So might Aura of Silence, as its good against MUD and other decks with Chalice.

No Fastbond or Exploration?

Runed Halo seems pretty good against Oath seeing as Oath can no longer target you.  It's also good if they only manage to get 1 threat out and you just name that.

Humility seems like a pretty good enchantment if things get out of hand but then it hurts your creatures as well.....until you enchant them.

Would be fun if this could work, or at least be *somewhat* viable. 

[Fraggle]

Maindeck Seals would help the Vault issue.  So might Aura of Silence, as its good against MUD and other decks with Chalice.

That is my thoughts too, but you have to have equally fast mana to work it out.  You could run off color moxen for Seals both Primoridum and Cleansing.

As for Aura I love the card but then you'd be building a white primary (whatever color secondary)  I'm not saying is bad, but it is a color direction one would have to make.

No Fastbond or Exploration?

No I have had many build with them, and although I like the acceleration I feel it doesn't warrant the card slot.  So I can draw more card and generate more mana that doesn't do too much good when I follow it by saying your tun.  IMHO I think Enchantress desks need to be laden with constant threats to out draw counters, not simply accelerating my win.  unless it was a turn 0 win.

Runed Halo seems pretty good against Oath seeing as Oath can no longer target you.  It's also good if they only manage to get 1 threat out and you just name that.

Oath and targeting is something I didn't even think of an IMO make this whole thread worth it. (for me)  As for the threat I was alll over that

Humility seems like a pretty good enchantment if things get out of hand but then it hurts your creatures as well.....until you enchant them.

Would be fun if this could work, or at least be *somewhat* viable. 

Humility, although awesome, shuts down the enchantress's themselves (unless you run solely enchantress's presence) and therefore should be considered in that light.

As for the somewhat viable I think the list above, although it needs a good deal of improvement is *somewhat* viable.

It can beat Oath, Ichorid, & Tezz the only decks I've tested with my friends (under or around 50%), but it does need work.

As posted by Delha you have to consider the richness of draw and or hand against the top tier.  I'm not completely sold that Enchantress can not meet that challenge.

You do have to look at it in a different way though.   Perhaps the enchantress is only the supporting cast, all other decks are known by their win, so should enchantress.  An enchantress, unless it is Yavimaya or Kor Spirtdancer can not win you the game.

But don't underestimate those paired with disruptive enchantments.

[Fraggle]

Enchantress does a lot of cute things, but is simply not fast enough to race. A good start for this deck is Land->Mox->Enchantress. In comparison, consider Land->Mox->Oath or Shop->Mox->Golem. All of these are solid (but not unheard of) starts that put the opponent a step away from wrapping up the game.

I understand this point, and if I may paraphrase.  Enchantress as we know it today lacks richness of draw vs. tier 1 decks.  I will agree.  ...but I'm not sold it has to be.

An enchantress deck could run 8 seals (Seal of Priomorduim and Seal of Removal) and there should always be some target.  So in both your examples Fetch land (i.e. Windswept Heath, or Misty Rainforest) to Savannah and off color [or on] (moxen, ESG, SSG, Lotus petal, what have you) which is more probable could beat.

Land (correction: Forbidden Orchard)->Mox->Oath or Shop->Mox->Golem

Could...

After that, you need to be able to interact, and Enchantress simply doesn't do that nearly as well as Sphere effects on the play, or FoW on the anytime.

Okay  I know this is the old timer in me but what are sphere effects?

as for FoW... I know this sounds dumb, but Force of Will does NOT win you the game.  ...it simply prolongs you from losing in exchange for a loss in card advantage and life.  Granted that is HUGE, but can that not be overcome with anything?

i.e. Counter decks can not counter everything, they do not have the card resources nor the mana. So enchantress should just assume the attitude that we can out play / draw them.  We still draw (pending an enchantress in play) even if they counter, and if an enchantress deck builder assumes the role the every draw is a threat then counter will loose to the deck almost all the time.

--She has access to a lot of backbreaking enchantments (ie. Choke, City of Solitude, Runed Halo, Solitary Confinement, Aura of Silence), but lacks fast tutoring to get the right ones.
--She lacks the means to force through those bombs (barring splash for duress effects)
--Most bombs are fat targets. Fueling their FOF with your drained Choke is miserable.
--Too much drawing the wrong answer. For every game against Gifts where I landed Pariah on their DSC, I would lose two where I just ate a Tendrils and died.
--Drawing too many lands. Even when the draw engine is running smooth, she often chokes out

Choke Although good when playing blue is too narrow IMO. Same with City, just plan to out draw FTW.  Enchantress's force is to out draw threats to opponents.  That is the difference.  As for the right silver bullet I don't think Enlightened Tutor is that out of the question especially being fairly recently unrestricted.  Sterling Grove isn't too bad either as long as you can make an engine to support it.

Pariah, why not just use Sprit link?

As for too many land it all depends on the build, ESG, SSG, moxen, Land Tax, Mox Diamond, Fastbond; these are all things that come to mind.

In a lot of ways, your build reminds me of a more fun/silly aggro build I had (as opposed to the more controlling version I mentioned earlier). Here are the first few problems that jump out at me with your build:  
--You fold to Chalice at 1 (no spells) OR 2 (no Enchantresses).
--You rely heavily on the attack phase, but lack ways to buy extra turns.
--You only run 6 targetable creatures (barring ESG), but 11 creature enchants.

First off I don't think my build is the be all end all by any means, but...
Fold to Chalice 1 not exactly Seal of Primordium
Fold to chalice 2 perhaps-ish, pending when my opponent could play chalice 2

heavy on attack, I'll eat that criticism

Creatures to enchants was a work in progress, but I did use ESG dually to get over that.  I used those for Kor Primarily.

Hope this helps, and sorry to be a downer. I still love Enchantress, but long ago accepted that I wouldn't be winning anything big with her. She can easily steal games here and there, but not consistently enough to be T1.

I don't think you are a downer at all.  A downer would be getting no posts

It looks like you know a thing or two about the enchantress archetype too.  May I challenge you to think of her as a supporting role to greater on color disruptive effects to steal the Kor Spritdancer win ala Quiran Dryad?  What could you come up with then?

[Mr. Fantastic]

I'm always a fan of anything fun/creative and therefore want to see this deck flourish.  Most of what I wanted to say has already been said by Delha and madmanmike but I still have some general ideas I'd like to throw out there.

-RE: Rancor + Auratog—I'm a fan. I don't think putting opponent on a clock is ever a bad thing, plus Tog is a decent blocker vs. most non-tinker/oath creatures.

-How about splashing black for Bitterblossom + Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize?

-No disrespect intended but your anti-Oath/Tinker-robot creatures are mind-blowingly horrible imho. Splashing black opens up Edict as an answer for Shrouded/protected fatties. But if you're gonna stick with the blocker plan, why 1 of each? I'd rather have 2 Alaborn Zealot, 0 Abu since at least Zealot has 1 power. And I think I'd just maindeck Swords if I wanted something more generally useful against non-Oath threats. Another card to consider might be Tariff. It gets rid of Colossus/Emrakul/Progenitus/Iona-on-green/Terastrodon and possibly Sphinx/Inkwell. It's also the tiniest of speed bumps vs. Double Dragon.

-I'm probably biased since it's such a pet card but I think Aura is worth making the main color White.

How many decks would Moat Shut down? ...or Solitary Confinement?

Qasali Pridemage and Trygon Predator are two annoying as shit creatures that make Moat/Solitary Confinement/The Abyss/other a lot less good than they once were. And they weren't even that good before the printing of said creatures, imo, despite having a place in my heart as pet cards.

The best this build has is Runed Halo for Tendrils and Seal of Primordium for Vault key.

Null Rod is your friend imo. The main problem with your deck is that it doesn't interact enough w/ opponent's deck, ie, disrupt hand/board/other rather than focusing on just developing its own board.

So then I'm thinking I should go the Enlightened Tutor, Sterling Grove type build for more reliable answers.

Those are both really slow, imo.

So in general what would it have to look like, defensive control?  ...combo?  Aggressive?

Thoughts, suggestions or is that too vague now and I should just keep tinkering by myself?

Aggressive/disruptive.


Edit: to answer your question, Sphere effects are Sphere of Resistance/Thorn of Amethyst/Lodestone Golem.

[TheShop]

How about taking it in a seriously White direction for:

Suppression Field
Seal of Cleansing (better than primordium-sphinx)
Aura of Silence

this could give you 8 disenchants, 4 double sphere effects, and 4 cardsthat slow combo&sac lands

for reference these 12 disruption cards bring you within 6-7 lock slots of some of the older stax builds.

[madmanmike25]

The only real turn 1 disruption thats an enchantment is Root Maze, maybe you should try it.

Also if u go mostly white, Serra's Sanctum might be ok.

[BruiZar]

Spiritdancer is a Wombat Enchantress, so Rancor comes to mind. Rancor is awesome against Smokestack. You could side in Umbra Mystic against fish type decks and just sack Rancor. There's also this awesome future sighted aura i've been dying to try. Daybreak Coronet.



Umbra Mystic can do some really cool stuff Enchant Lands and a Wasteland.

This looks pretty awesome as a one off as well if theres a way to cheat it in play

[Lurker101]

Auratouched Mage combos with Eldrazi Conscription but Mage costs 6 anyway so it's not really worth it IMO. I agree with The Shop about adding Aura of Silence/Suppression Field/Seal of Cleansing too. Those are too powerful not to ignore. Zealot and Ja'far should be cut. There are better ways to deal with fatties that are more synergystic like Arrest, Oblivion Ring, Faith's Fetters, or Crystallization.

[Fraggle]

Sorry I haven't had the time to give everyones posts a proper answer, nor to tinker around with the suggestions, but here are some quick thoughts.  I'll follow-up with more when I can.  Please keep the improvements coming.  I like where this is going.

-RE: Rancor + Auratog—I'm a fan. I don't think putting opponent on a clock is ever a bad thing, plus Tog is a decent blocker vs. most non-tinker/oath creatures.

I agree.  I love this, and I had it in an earlier version.  Things we would have to consider are which Enchantress's will this deck be running?  If Kor, then obviously this would be a good fit.  If Argothian then we could have a problem (shroud.) 

The only bad thing about Kor Spirit Dancer is she only draws on aura spells.  If we were to use The Shop's suggestions above of Aura of Silence, Suppression Field, and Seal of Cleansing that would be 12 non-aura's and we should probably look to a different enchantress.  The next (or the best) best one is Argothian.  So then you have to run other creatures in there to support Rancor, I'm thinking more than 4, and is this combo worth all of those slots given the conversation on "richness of draw?"  At this point I do not know.

-How about splashing black for Bitterblossom + Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize?

I'd like to focus on Green and White for now, but this idea has crossed my mind.  My hesitation is I'm looking for more synergy with the enchantress.  If nothing turns up on color I will certainly explore it further.

-No disrespect intended but your anti-Oath/Tinker-robot creatures are mind-blowingly horrible imho.

To answer all of these statements. YES with out a doubt these have to go, but to understand why I put them in here was why.  They were a cheap white target for Nature's Chosen, creatures for all of my creature enchants, and did SOMETHING against SOME fatties.

The only real turn 1 disruption thats an enchantment is Root Maze, maybe you should try it.

Also if u go mostly white, Serra's Sanctum might be ok.

I think we should be looking at these a lot.

Spiritdancer is a Wombat Enchantress, so Rancor comes to mind. Rancor is awesome against Smokestack. You could side in Umbra Mystic against fish type decks and just sack Rancor.

I love Kor, but I don't think the direction this thread is taking (not enough auras) that it is the best enchantress, and that for me puts Rancor and Auratog in question.  What does everyone think?

As for Umbra Mystic I'd like to use that card slot (for now) to look at wins, or locks.  ...but I will certainly keep that in mind.

I need to get a better grasp on the deck's win now to know if this would be a good fit.

With that does anyone have any ideas of what the best way an Enchantress deck could intrinsically win?  Kor Spiritdancer could work, but we would need to look at more auras IMO.  Maybe just use Auratog and Yavimaya?

Something else I've been toying with, is this a good deck for Academy Rector? 

This would be good for Eldrazi's Concription, Transcendence, and Sigil of the Empty Throne...

[TopSecret]

I think that you are going to want to play a fair amount of cheap disruptive spells that shut off win conditions that can race you.

Auras are not bad, but the problem is that you will likely end up being either slower than the other deck in terms of goldfishing and/or too open to disruption if you play too many auras that don't disrupt.

The other problem is that the aura plan needs creatures to enchant, which leads to a lot of scenarios where you are depending on certain things being drawn, cast, and resolving in a certain order in a way that can make the deck get bad hands too often or be really open to disruption.

Since there is only so much space in the deck and only so many cards you can get in the opening hand, I think that the hypothetical best way to address these problems with the aura plan would be to play cards that serve double duty in terms of the roles they fill. I don't know how feasible this is, since I have not checked gatherer for all auras...etc.

Kor Spiritdancer is a good example of a card that would perform multiple roles. It can be enchanted and it draws cards. If you are going to go with the aura plan, then having more cards that fill multiple roles as some combination of creatures to enchant, early disruption, card drawers, auras...etc. could be a good direction to go in.

If there aren't the cards to do this, then you should probably abandon the aura plan for a more traditional enchantress deck that plays a bunch of disruptive cards that happen to be enchantments to slow down the opponent long enough to win. I don't know if either strategies are viable.

[BruiZar]

I think that right now the Aura route is too reliant on beat down plan so its more for a legacy deck I think. Vintage simply requires more hard-hitting effects and limiting yourself to enchantments is already sort of crippling, if you are limiting yourself to auras its going to be even worst. Not to be negative of course, because I do think there will be enchanment printings that may push enchantress to a top tier.

Also, I think maybe we should look at enchantress differently. Maybe Serra's Sanctum is the engine (4x tolarian!), not enchantress. Just keep in mind that Vedalken Archmage isn't played in shop decks either!

[TheShop]

Blue gives you access to In the Eye of Chaos....never underestimate your opponent's "o shit" expression when that bad boy hits play.

Hate Suite:
4 Root Maze
4 Suppression Field
2 In the Eye of Chaos
3 Energy Flux
4 Choke
4 Aura of Silence
4 Opalescence
4 Replinish


This would be hillarious...I cant imagine trying to play tezz through this if you got more than one of them down.  Plus, you can run a full set of power instead of garbage like wild growth effects that take up a whole turn to drop these bad boys.

I might also run something like this:
4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
several Riftstone portal

4 Bazaar

Bazaar + Suppression field is definitely negative synergy, but replinish is huge and game ending + enough rifstones may let you just tap bazaar for white/green consistently.

this oddly compares to a less straight forward stax deck:
21 locks
4 grave recursion for your enchantments
4 lands that tap for multiple mana
1 academy
4 waste
1 strip
a karn effect

I dont know if this will be good enough for the big leagues.  But seeing this many permanents that are hateful fills my heart with joy. The deck needs more ways to stop artifact mana.

[BruiZar]

I like opalescence as a win condition. Also, Decree of Silence has always been very dear to me. For the love of everything broken, if you can make that thing work its game ending.

[Delha]

I understand this point, and if I may paraphrase.  Enchantress as we know it today lacks richness of draw vs. tier 1 decks.  I will agree.  ...but I'm not sold it has to be.

Land (correction: Forbidden Orchard)->Mox->Oath or Shop->Mox->Golem

I'd say that it's not just draw that's limiting Enchantress. isn't bad at all for turning 80% of your deck into cantrips. Confidant sees a card per turn with a potentially terrible drawback. Argothian in this deck is pretty much a Confidant on crack.

The problem is that a beatdown version is too slow to race most decks, and if you can't race you need to disrupt, but our ways of interacting are simply not as good as Trinisphere and Mana Drain.

Oh, and Oath doesn't need an Orchard, because you just landed a creature against them on turn 1. I've tried holding back Enchantresses when they didn't have Orchards on the table, but that just means that their draw spells still work, but yours don't.

as for FoW... I know this sounds dumb, but Force of Will does NOT win you the game.  ...it simply prolongs you from losing in exchange for a loss in card advantage and life.  Granted that is HUGE, but can that not be overcome with anything?

Unfortunately, I'd have to say no, it probably cannot be overcome. FoW is traditionally what keeps combo in check. Even in a vaccuum, it's probably harder for us to find and resolve Rule of Law or Runed Halo on turn 3 than it is for TPS to win in the same timeframe. That's before you consider that they run Duress + FoW, there's the Tinker plan, or that they might be able to find their bounce.

i.e. Counter decks can not counter everything, they do not have the card resources nor the mana. So enchantress should just assume the attitude that we can out play / draw them.  We still draw (pending an enchantress in play) even if they counter, and if an enchantress deck builder assumes the role the every draw is a threat then counter will loose to the deck almost all the time.

The problem is that very few of your spells are threats. At game start, they only need to counter Enchantress. Even if she's already on the table, the only spells I see them caring about are the 3x Seal of Primordium. All the rest they should be able to safely ignore while assembling Key/Vault.
 

Choke Although good when playing blue is too narrow IMO. Same with City, just plan to out draw FTW.  Enchantress's force is to out draw threats to opponents.  That is the difference.  As for the right silver bullet I don't think Enlightened Tutor is that out of the question especially being fairly recently unrestricted.  Sterling Grove isn't too bad either as long as you can make an engine to support it.

That's actually indicative of another problem w/ Enchantress. To affect the board in a meaningful way, candidate enchantments are incredibly powerful. This is generally balanced by the fact that they are expensive and narrow. That makes them both slow to play (meaning they have time to get Drain online) and reduces threat density.

Having 4x Enlightened could help, but it is still one of the Mirage tutors. Sterling Grove is the same, but at sorcery speed, and more expensive. Grove is a decidedly fair card in an field of broken ones (ie. Tinker).

As for too many land it all depends on the build, ESG, SSG, moxen, Land Tax, Mox Diamond, Fastbond; these are all things that come to mind.

ESG, SSG: Enchantress wants permanent mana, she likes tapping out turn after turn.
Moxen,Fastbond: Well, yes. These are a given, we'd run more if we could.
Land Tax: Way too slow. Also, redundant when we're running properly.
Mox Diamond: Often useful only after we're up and running. The rest of the time, -CA hurts. At least this time around, the blowout risk from running this into Gorilla Shaman is way lower.

First off I don't think my build is the be all end all by any means, but...
Fold to Chalice 1 not exactly Seal of Primordium
Fold to chalice 2 perhaps-ish, pending when my opponent could play chalice 2

heavy on attack, I'll eat that criticism

Creatures to enchants was a work in progress, but I did use ESG dually to get over that.  I used those for Kor Primarily.

Seal of Primordium is a three of, and you have no tutors to dig it up. With Enchantress down, you can throw spells away at the chalice to dig, but that probably means at least 3-4 turns for the Shop deck to drop more lock pieces or start pushing your face in.

Any hand that can land a turn one Lodestone Golem can also affford a turn 1 Chalice set at 2. Your best hope is that they don't know to gun for it (pray they don't put you on Oath). That said, if you're on the draw, turn 2 is still probably fast enough for them to lock you out.

It looks like you know a thing or two about the enchantress archetype too.  May I challenge you to think of her as a supporting role to greater on color disruptive effects to steal the Kor Spritdancer win ala Quiran Dryad?  What could you come up with then?

I would say that was what my control build was essentially trying to do. The Enchantress was often just an engine to help me dig for silver bullets faster. The big problem was that by the time you can tutor for a bomb, there's usually a threat on the other side of the table, and you have to dig for an answer instead.

The problem with comparing Spiritdancer to Dryad is that the latter grows by casting lots of draw spells, which in turn helps keep your opponent from doing anything while you bash. Spiritdancer gets you a hand full of Auras, none of which stop them from resolving Will and just comboing you out.


Some random answers to stuff, not all of it good:
Key/Vault: Seals, Aura of Silence. I'm totally on board to overloading on these.
Fatties: Journey to Nowhere/Oblivion Ring, Worship, Pariah. Maybe Squirrel Nest/Sacred Mesa (probably not).
Oath: Aura Fracture
Smokestack: Squirrel Nest (+Earthcraft, wooo!)
Welder, Dread Return: Ground Seal
Tendrils: Rule of Law, Solitary Confinement, Root Maze, Aura of Silence


Things I probably wouldn't run:
Opalescence: Makes all your silver bullets easier to remove. If using a beatdown kill, Squirrelcraft goes infinite and helps a bit against Shops.
Sigil of the Empty Throne: Awesome, but pricey, and no immediate return. The controllish build also tends towards more expensive stuff, so you don't trigger it as often.

Gotta run, but I'll try to expand on a few specific cards later.

[TheShop]

I think earlier comments are correct on decree of silence.  The best enchant deck I have ever seen did this:

bazaar taps dropping: arcane lab, decree, opalescence....cast replinish, win game. Intuition.deck

But if we are going for locks and combos:
squirrelcraft is misreably slow
ground seal is cute but will be dead 99% of the time.

As sub-optimal as most of this sounds, I really like lock and combo pieces that aren't artifacts/creatures...the blindsiding element is fantastic.  If your blue opponent is running hurkyl and Jace as bounce spells, all of your enchants stick permanently! 

[Fraggle]

Well... Here are my thought in mid stream of consciousness.

Looking at Aura's for a bit there is nothing disruptive enough to build a deck out of them, so Kor Spiritdancer is scrapped.

This saddens me a bit because she had a built in win condition, but it's time to move on.

I was even looking at running white /black and using Academy Rector with Animate dead / Dance of the Dead, and Auratog... but I think at least for now I should put those ideas to bed (too conditional) unless any of you can spring board of that start and on to a more robust thought.

So with a benched Kor we are on to The Shop's suggested build of (at least):

4 Aura of Silence 
4 Suppression Field 
4 Seal of Cleansing 

I'm going to add (at least):
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo

because they are so flexible get-you-out-of-jams card.

This give us the on color of Mesa Enchantress ...but as BruiZar said is an Enchantress really needed?

Other questions:
Do we run 4 Serra's Sanctum even though it is legendary?  ...and if so what do we do with the dead draws?

What other color(s) should we target?

I like the idea of blue, and I have have had a version with In The Eye of Chaos before, but I have my concerns that this is more not loose, and less lets win. ...but if we go Blue Energy Flux and Erayo, Soratami Ascendant are definitely in.

Questionable:

Choke - Kills your own islands, but you'd just have to build around that.

I like the idea of Bizarre, but I am not a fan of the complete non-synergy of Suppression Field so that would have to be assessed.

Green give you access to more on color enchantress's and Life from the Loam + Root Maze

This could fill up a fattie yard for a nice Replenish / Animated Rector and the alike.  It also give you Survival of the Fittest a nice rector Finder.

*Remember with each draw you could dredge so loam  / dreage enchantress could be a good engine.

And if you just want to go crazy Manabond.

Black would give you access to Cabal Therapy (Academy Rector nabber), Blitterstorm as Mr. Fantastic said plus the ever-so tantilizing animate enchants.

I'm going have to leave you with that sketch of a thought, but I wanted to give us all something to ponder as we all go to sleep later tonight.

[TheShop]

If the bazaar disynergy is too much to stomach, I would cut In the Eye of Chaos so that I could run:

4 Force of Will
1 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Mana drain

and just play Replinish with Suppression field and Seal as the disruption suite.

I know this is worlds away from where you started.  But it still utiliizes enchantments, and lets you have a viable win.  Notice no Aura of Silence because it cant be played off moxen.  If you can get used to this, you could still run choke by just running rainbow lands instead (ie really old oath build method).

[Mr. Fantastic]

Interesting discussion so far. Right now we're all over the road with our ideas. Which I kinda like, actually!

If the bazaar disynergy is too much to stomach, I would cut In the Eye of Chaos so that I could run:

4 Force of Will
1 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Mana drain

and just play Replinish with Suppression field and Seal as the disruption suite.

I know this is worlds away from where you started.  But it still utiliizes enchantments, and lets you have a viable win.  Notice no Aura of Silence because it cant be played off moxen.  If you can get used to this, you could still run choke by just running rainbow lands instead (ie really old oath build method).

I don't even know if it's my place to say so, but after going down that road, I kinda think you start to ask yourself "Wait, now that I'm playing a drain/replenish deck, is my drain deck better than a more conventional drain deck using say, Mystic Remora +Repeal/Sensei Top for an engine w/ Painter/Grindstone for win condition?

And if the answer is no, then you start tweaking it further still and eventually just end up cutting the enchantments entirely at which point you're just playing another drain deck.   Okay, maybe I am just projecting but this happens to me a lot when I am trying to do something creative in a well defined format. It's not easy being a Johnny in a world of Spikes. With that said, I just don't see how it can ever really be a bad thing to open up access to broken goodness in the form of Ancestral and Time Walk, plus Tinker+Robot for shoring up leaks vs. aggro.

So with a benched Kor we are on to The Shop's suggested build of (at least):

4 Aura of Silence  
4 Suppression Field  
4 Seal of Cleansing  

I'm going to add (at least):
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo

My only question is is this actually better so far than the old Stax decks which used Suppression Field alluded to earlier? I guess only testing will tell for sure.

RE: the Rector plan, it doesn't tickle me with a feather but that doesn't mean you shouldn't test it out anyway just for the sake of exhausting every option. Hell, try everything, just to be sure. I've learned to be cynical and I suspect this deck is doomed from the start if you're trying to actually putting something together that can really be competitive, but fuck it. Trying and failing to make a pet deck competitive is usually a learning experience anyway, so it's not like this whole thing is a waste of time.

Do we run 4 Serra's Sanctum even though it is legendary?  ...and if so what do we do with the dead draws?

I guess filter w/ Bazaar/Frantic Search/Thirst for Knowledge/Attunement. At some point PandeBurst decks were using 4 Bazaar/Squee if I'm not mistaken.  (Though no synergy between Suppression Field and Bazaar/Attunement, obv.)

[BruiZar]

Do we run 4 Serra's Sanctum even though it is legendary?  ...and if so what do we do with the dead draws?
I would definately test it with 4 of them and run Mox Diamond to filter them out. The idea to consistently get a Serra's Sanctum in every game is really good. It's also one of the few ways to really power out large amounts of mana AND you can run Tolarian in addition.

Rector Plan
In the Dark Times thread I came up with the interaction of Lost Auramancers and Vampire Hexmage. This means that you could potentially run Auramancers, Hexmage, Dark Depths and perhaps also Rector+a sack outlet such as Therapy, Gatekeeper or Edict. Sacking Hexmage on Auramancers to put a Decree of Silence into play can be much better than putting a Marit Lage in play due to repeals and such.

Replenish
I currently have a Leviat deck sleeved up because I love the idea of running Bazaars with Mana Drains. The deck however, is too dependent on the graveyard so in a field with Ichorid hate its going to die due to collateral damage. Either the deck needs a complete overhaul, a secondary win condition that doesn't rely on the yard, or find a way to protect the yard through Stifles and such. Another option would be to run Meadberts Rasputin oath deck.

If you aren't going to use something to fill your yard up, you shouldn't run Replenish because they have no way to kill your enchantments anyway.



EDIT:

I think I'm going to try a   version of this idea. I want to fool around with Clockspinning which could remove a depletion counter from Decree of Silence to hardlock someone out of the game and to remove counters from Lost Auramancer, Smokestack, Tangle Wire and add to oppo's Mystic Remora. Also, I gotta test Divine Intervention

[BruiZar]

This is sort of a draft of what I'm thinking about. It's not really enchantress but I think it could work. I still have to make the mana base and remove some cards but here it is:

There are several win conditions available in this build:
1: Robot (Tinker or Show and Tell)
2: Vault Key (Tinker + Tutors)
3: Decree of Silence (Hexmage Lost Auramancers or Show and Tell or Lost Auramancers Clockspinning/Time Walk)
4: Dark Depths (Hexmage Dark Depths)

On Clockspinning:
*used to make a hardlock with Decree of Silence
*disables Chalice of the Void and Engineered Explosives
*to vanish Lost Auramancers
*to increase or decrease smokestack
*to increase upkeeps for opposing Mystic Remora
*To help disable planeswalkers


On Hexmage:
*Use it to waste dredge's Gemstone Mines
*Kill Tezzerets or Jace
*Reset your Decree of Silence
*Kill Lost Auramancers
*Reset your Mystic Remora
*Summon Marit Lage
*Kill giant Golgari Gravetroll and bridges at the same time

2x Dark depths
1x Voltaic Key
1x Time Vault
1x DSC/Sphinx/Inkwell
1x Tinker
2x Decree of Silence
1x Yawgmoth’s Bargain As crazy as it may sound, this is win more
2x Lost Auramancers
4x Vampire Hexmage
1x Show and Tell
3x Spell Pierce
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Brainstorm
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
1x Balance
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Tariff (Only when playing Academy Rector), otherwise Diabolic Edict
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Clockspinning
1x Repeal
2x Mystic Remora
3x Seal of Cleansing
2x Thoughtseize

The reason why I like Auramancers over Rector is because:
A: They die if you do nothing. You can just sit back and play the control roll until Auramancers trigger
B: It curves better. Hexmage costs 2 and can be played before Auramancers, Tariff costs 2 and can be cast after you play Rector. Therapy is a good card but you don't want to sack Hexmage, Robot or Marit Lage to flashback it should you not have Rector in play.
C: Gives Hexmage and Clockspinning more utility and adds to the power of Time Walk.

I'm not sure yet which other Enchantment bombs should be in the deck. Moat/Humility don't seem good enough. Dovescape doesnt really work either because Marit Lage doesn't have trample. I'm thinking either expensive sweepers, hand destruction or something else that's going to help win the game now. Confiscate could be a good way to pull a time vault / oath / tinker creature to your side of the table.

[Delha]

Going the prison route, I'd still stick with WG and use Argothians as your base. Hitting double white for Aura isn't the hardest thing ever, just build with White dominant and green splash. I'll admit that to bias in favor of this direction because it's what I'm familiar with. That said, most of your bombs are white, but Argothian is the best you can hope for in an Enchantress. Cheaper than Verduran/Mesa, shrouded, and hawt to boot.

So, assuming that's where you take this deck, here's a bunch more random stuff I either used to run, or considered at one point.

I might run these:
Pariah: Two for ones all day. Generally, this is Removal + Time Walk at minimum, since they waste a turn swinging to kill their dude. Great against tinker bots in particular, since they have to dig for bounce AND a counter so you don't just recast. Replenish this onto Inky for good times.
Worship: This plus Enchantress trumps Tinkered or Oathed fatties. With Sterling Grove, the game can be literally unwinnable for them, as blue often runs only a singleton bounce spell.
Wheel of Sun and Moon: I stopped running Enchantress before this was printed, but I would mainboard it, happily. Major obstacle for any deck reliant on Welders, Will or Dredgers, which is probably 70% of the field or more.
Runed Halo: See last entry, but for Oath, Tendrils or Tinkered Bots.
Sterling Grove: Three or four. I see control Enchantress as having anti-Ichorid strategy matchup, but against everyone. You want to resolve some hate and protect it. One piece is often just a speedbump, but two is often enough. These get you pieces, but slooowly, then protect what you have out. Drawing your second is often good, but seeing three usually sucks.
Replenish: Amazing and meh at the same time. Seems like an auto four-of, but they tend to just get stranded in your hand. When you've got bombs in both hand and grave, you just keep casting new ones, because it draws more cards. Seeing multiples tends to be lame. I think that by the end, I'd cut down to 2 of these. I see this like Twister for TPS. It gives you great recovery power, but not a lot the rest of the time. Unless your bombs have been duressed or countered already, it's worthless.
Enchantress's Presence: Argothians 5+, and tutorable. Prolly run 2. If only this cost ...
Regrowth: Necessary evil, IMHO. Saves you from autoscooping when they Force your T1 Enchantress. Also cute for picking up random stuff that gets Duressed or nuked, without being so expensive as Replenish.
Enlightened Tutor: Yes. Dunno how many, I shelved the deck before this got unrestricted.
Fastbond: Hell yes.
Root Maze: Root Maze is easily your best substitute for sphere effects.
Serra's Sanctum: Yes. Probably 2 or 3, to balance between seeing it, and drawing extras. I'd happily go to 4 if your meta is Shop/Fish heavy.
Squirrelcraft: Yes. Neither is useless solo. Earthcraft gets you extra mana of either color from Enchantresses (helps more than you'd think). Nest gets you blockers for Fish, and helps vs Smoky/Wires. Might as well get some marginal utility out of your kill.
Solitary Confinement: Probably 1. Note that unless you have multiple Enchantresses, you still eventually run out of cards. That said, it's often buys you three or more turns. Unfortunately, by the time you cast it, most decks are content to wait you out.
Rule of Law: Sometimes awesome, sometimes worthless. The theorey behind mainboarding this is that your silver bullets are bombier than whatever they're doing. In practice, that sometimes works, and sometimes leaves you spending several turns cantripping worthless enchants while looking for a real bomb.


I probably wouldn't run these:
Amulet of Vigor: Cute interaction w/ Root Maze, but largely dead otherwise.
Priviledged Postion: Too pricey, largely redundant w/ Groves.
Ground Seal: Fewer Welders these days, and no Dragon, no Gifts (which ran Recoup).
Karmic Justice: You're more likely to see bounce than Disenchants. I'd add Grove #4 first.
Aura Fracture: Not enough targets. Maybe sideboard 1?
Aura Shards: Cute interaction w/ Squirrel Nest, occasionally useful w/ extra Argothian's you've drawn.
Sylvan Library + Pursuit of Knowledge/Abundance: Cute, but slow. Pursuit has lots of neat tricks and lets you wall up then just deck the opponent, but still probably not worth it.
Sacred Mesa: Usually worse than Squirrel Nest. Maybe useful to stall against Iona/Sphinx, but that's probably too corner of a case to make it worthwhile. Also, requires Wild Growth/etc to go infi.
Carpet of Flowers: Too slow.
Compost: Maybe against Ichorid? Potentially draws you into any hate you side against them.
Drop of Honey/Poryphory Nodes: Used to work vs Fish/etc. Now it kills Arogthian. Lame.
City of Solitude: Probably sideboard 1 + Choke.

If I were to add a color, it would be black for superior tutors and duress effects. The things I want most out of a new color are disruption for combo and ways to force through lock pieces. Blue is cute (Attunement is a pet card of mine), but I think Black is better for plugging the aforementioned gaps.

At any rate, it's probably best for us to to pick a variant and focus down on that. We could start separate threads for all the other neat ideas coming up. Until you pick one though... I've got a casual enchantment-based WUB deck I'll discuss in another post!

[TheShop]

If we are locking them out, I dont know how you would do without suppression field + Choke (at least a few).  When playing against blue you can cut off literally all of their lands.

I agree with most of what Delha said.  However, instead of suppression field you could run a bunch of sac lands in your colors, basics over duals, and splash blue for back to basics.

runed halo is a house, it stops 99% of vintage win conditions.  I would run 4.  Humility/moat is the bomb too.  This whole discussion makes me want to run parfait.

[Delha]

I was even looking at running white /black and using Academy Rector with Animate dead / Dance of the Dead, and Auratog... but I think at least for now I should put those ideas to bed (too conditional) unless any of you can spring board of that start and on to a more robust thought.

Ever since I saw Ertai, the Corrupted, I've wanted to build a deck around him. The big problem I keep running into is that all the everything I build ends up better (which still isn't to say they're good) without him in the list.

The most recent deck from which he'll soon be cut is built around the following:

Reanimation
Recurring Nightmare
Animate Dead/Necromancy

Utility Creatures
Auramancer
Faith Healer

Utility Enchants
Legacy's Allure/Seal of Removal/Seal of Doom/etc
Oblivion Ring
Delaying Shield

Other
Intuition
Stormscape Familiar
Sigil of The Empty Throne

Cute, but dumb
Ertai, the Corrupted
Ancestral Knowledge
Hatching Plans

[Delha]

If we are locking them out, I dont know how you would do without suppression field + Choke (at least a few).  When playing against blue you can cut off literally all of their lands.

I agree with most of what Delha said.  However, instead of suppression field you could run a bunch of sac lands in your colors, basics over duals, and splash blue for back to basics.

runed halo is a house, it stops 99% of vintage win conditions.  I would run 4.  Humility/moat is the bomb too.  This whole discussion makes me want to run parfait.

What does Suppression Field do to lock most people out? It hits fetches, bazaar, welder, top, and key/vault. Am I missing much else that's dominant? There's Necro/Bargain/Jar in TPS, but my understanding was that TPS isn't seeing much play.

The fact that it only slows those abilites, rather than outright stopping them also pushes me more in the direction of Aura/Seal. Of the listed cards, only Bazaar is unaffected by disenchant effects.

My problem with Humility/Moat is that in most cases Worship is as effective or more, less difficult to cast, and asymmetrical. Against Fish, I'd agree that Humility is more helpful, but as a mainboard option, I much prefer Worship.

Edit: As an additional bonus to Squirrel Nest, it works to keep Worship active through a Massacre. I'd forgotten about that one.

[Fraggle]

I'm sorry I do not have a whole lot of time to type this out, but I wanted to give everyone something to think about.

We can still turn this back into and enchantress deck yet ...or at least enchantress like.

Looking into The Shop's drop of ...this whole discussion make me want to play parfait. It made me realize that Sacred Mesa is a Solid win condition with this deck.

Sacred Mesa (makes a 1/1 white for   ) with Nature's Chosen (Enchant creature: if white Untap target Land, Creature, or Artifact) coupled with Serra's Sanctum could be pretty sick.

Like a not so infinite (untapped) Squirrelcraft.  This gives you the ability to run Concordant Crossroads to win faster than Squirrelcraft ever could, and each piece is more relevant to everyday play than Squirrelcraft's.

Plus Replenish, and Opalescence could be a solid runner up.

Nature's chosen could give you an enchantment alt to Key for Vault/Key. And Enlightened Tutor will find both.

mix this with 4 Argothians, and the disruption package mentioned above you have a reason to keep it in the vain of enchantress rather then build a weaker known deck as alluded to by Mr. Fantastic

I love the idea of the Lost Auramancers for Decree of Silence but I'm concerned with the mana curve of this deck as we know it now.

Other than that does anyone have any ideas on how to break Root Maze?  As in hurt your opponent more than you.