History of TheManaDrain

[Yare]

Over the weekend, I was asked about the history of TheManaDrain, such as when it was founded, what there was before that, and so on. My personal knowledge only extends until a little after the "new" TMD was formed (due to the previous incarnation being lost for reasons unknown to me) around I think late 2003/early 2004, so I wasn't able to provide too many details. I am aware of things such as SCG taking ownership of TMD, a few admin changes over time, various changes to the structure of the forums (birth and death of adept/full member only forums, various changes to the Legacy forums, etc.), that Zherbus originally founded TMD, but wasn't really able to give a satisfactory answer regarding the history of the forums when prompted.

So, I was wondering who out there, if anybody, could provide details about how TheManaDrain came to be, major events that have occurred in its past, any predecessors to TMD that could be mentioned (regardless of how rough; I know that there were listservs and/or newsgroups out there along with Beyond Dominaria Beyond Dominia and/or the Magic Dojo that may or may not be really called predecessors, I'm actually not really sure what some of those sites are, as I've just heard the terms from time to time), major shakeups in the administration of the site, significant members coming and going, and so on.

Additionally, if anybody has any particularly memorable posts and/or Vintage events, perhaps this would be a good place to mention those as well (along with supporting historical links, if possible). Two incidents come to my mind. 1) the Beta Time Walk incident where the guy ate his beta Time Walk after, I think, being accused of cheating at a StarCityGames P9 tournament. I recall reading that people scrambled to pick up the chewed up, spit-soaked bits of the card off the tournament floor. 2) Where some person had a personal life epiphany after losing to an opponent that went Mountain, Raging Goblin, swing, go on turn 1 of round 1 at some Vintage Tournament (I seem to recall this also making the "Meandeck team application" as well).

In any case, I think you guys get the point. If any of you have anything interesting, informative, or hilarious to contribute to this thread, I would love to hear it. Whatever fragments you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Killane]

this would be a super interesting read and i hope the "old timers" lol post some long-ass responses.

[Diakonov]

Hah, I was wondering how long you've been on here, Yare, and upon checking, I see that I registered one day before you back in 2004.

At the moment...nothing worth contributing is coming to mind.  I'll be sure to add if I think of something.

[Smmenen]

Oh boy....

Zherbus, who is around here somewhere, can give you the definitive history.

Here's what I remember.

Bdominia was THE site for Type 1 back around 2000.   Oscar Tan was the main mod, and Azhrei (Darren Di Battista) was the biggest voice in the crowd.   There were quite a few Europeans on the site, much like this one.

Then, one day, I think in late 2001, I tried to log onto Bdominia, but the site was down.  It turns out that the owner of the site didn't pay the upkeep, and the site just died.   No one paid the bill, and eventually the domain just disappeared.     I tried to archive as much of it as I could, using the Wayback machine.  

At that point, various people started opening up Vintage forums.  I opened up a forum on Delphi Forums, and it attracted a little bit of traffic.    Zherbus opened up this website.   And I think there were a few others.   Over time, however, most of the players seemed to end up here.   The other sites, through natural competition, dried up and died down.  

Zherbus has a pretty cool vision for the website.  Nearly immediately, although not at first, he began to separate the wheat from the chaff, and created the Extreme Vintage forum for high level discussion.   It was there that he unveiled Paragon Keeper.   That was quite a discussion back in 2002ish, as it was the first version of Keeper built with Fetchlands, an entirely new mana base to an archetype whose mana base had looked largely the same since 1995.  

Another big change to the website was the short-lived attempt to create article content on the front page.   Legend wrote his great primers on Mono Blue and on Suicide Black.   Then, Team Meandeck wrote an article on mono-red Stacker.    

I was a moderator pretty early on (as were most Meandeckers), in the 'second' wave of moderatorship.    

The biggest change that I can remember is that Starcitygames bought the website, and the front page went away, and Zherbus dissappeared for a long while.

That's what I remember.

[Yare]

Hah, I was wondering how long you've been on here, Yare, and upon checking, I see that I registered one day before you back in 2004.

At the moment...nothing worth contributing is coming to mind.  I'll be sure to add if I think of something.

I started Magic in 1996 and Vintage competitively in 2002. I probably signed up for the "original" TheManaDrain somewhere around 2002, but I honestly don't know exactly when because TMD wasn't all that important to me at the time. All registrations (and most of the posts) from the original TMD were lost when the site was reborn.

Another big change to the website was the short-lived attempt to create article content on the front page.   Legend wrote his great primers on Mono Blue and on Suicide Black.   Then, Team Meandeck wrote an article on mono-red Stacker.

You can probably attribute my playing Vintage today to those primers more than anything else. They were insanely helpful, especially the Nether Void primers (that deck is still a personal favorite of mine).

[Smmenen]

Incidentally, the Bdominia Wayback archives still work!

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://bdominia.com

Check it out:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010118225000/http://www.bdominia.com/

Click the T1 primer link on the left hand side, and look at all the cool old primers archived.  

Like this one:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010212090515/www.bdominia.addr.com/discus/articles/franchiseFAQ.html

[Diakonov]

Hah, I was wondering how long you've been on here, Yare, and upon checking, I see that I registered one day before you back in 2004.

At the moment...nothing worth contributing is coming to mind.  I'll be sure to add if I think of something.

I started Magic in 1996 and Vintage competitively in 2002. I probably signed up for the "original" TheManaDrain somewhere around 2002, but I honestly don't know exactly when because TMD wasn't all that important to me at the time. All registrations (and most of the posts) from the original TMD were lost when the site was reborn.

Another big change to the website was the short-lived attempt to create article content on the front page.   Legend wrote his great primers on Mono Blue and on Suicide Black.   Then, Team Meandeck wrote an article on mono-red Stacker.

You can probably attribute my playing Vintage today to those primers more than anything else. They were insanely helpful, especially the Nether Void primers (that deck is still a personal favorite of mine).

Similar story here actually, I started playing when Fallen Empires was out, but didn't begin to become actively competitive until around 2000.  I could have sworn that I had registered on TMD earlier than 2004, but I had forgotten about the big switch.  I'm pretty sure that I registered on the original TMD some time in early 2003.  I also absolutely loved Nether Void, and most of my earliest posts were in that thread.  I miss playing beta Sinkholes.

[Rico Suave]

My personal knowledge only extends until a little after the "new" TMD was formed (due to the previous incarnation being lost for reasons unknown to me) around I think late 2003/early 2004, so I wasn't able to provide too many details.

TMD was created in June of 2002.  A lot of the Beyond Dominaria refugees came to this site. 

Late in 2002, the bandwidth started hitting very high levels, so Zherbus found a new server.

Later, at the end of 2003, the bandwidth started reaching to a higher level, but this time there was no warning before the host cut off the website and deleted it.  A new TMD was born in its wake.

significant members coming and going

Waaaayyyy too many to name.

memorable posts

I'll start with one at a time but I'll probably add more if this thread picks up.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=10844.msg203900#msg203900

The first reply says it all.

[Diakonov]

[voltron00x]

My personal knowledge only extends until a little after the "new" TMD was formed (due to the previous incarnation being lost for reasons unknown to me) around I think late 2003/early 2004, so I wasn't able to provide too many details.

TMD was created in June of 2002.  A lot of the Beyond Dominaria refugees came to this site. 

Late in 2002, the bandwidth started hitting very high levels, so Zherbus found a new server.

Later, at the end of 2003, the bandwidth started reaching to a higher level, but this time there was no warning before the host cut off the website and deleted it.  A new TMD was born in its wake.

significant members coming and going

Waaaayyyy too many to name.

memorable posts

I'll start with one at a time but I'll probably add more if this thread picks up.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=10844.msg203900#msg203900

The first reply says it all.

Those 2-of creatures!  I think my eyes are bleeding!  Dammit Brad!

This is a very cool thread.  Please continue.

[Prospero]

I remember reading the old TMD, though I don't know if I registered as N.Y. Wizard before the crash.  I was N.Y. Wizard on TMD version 2.0, though I wasn't able to find my old handle.  I remember getting into an argument in one of the threads back in '03 over the unrestriction of Berserk.  People were losing their minds, predicting "Aggro Summer", just after "Combo Winter" had passed.  I was told I had no idea what I was talking about, and while I was pretty terrible back then, I was glad to see a few of the heavy hitters back me up.

Old TMD really did feel like a tightly knit community.  Nothing was better than reading articles by Oscar Tan about Keeper, or reading about how OSE (Old School Expulsion) wasn't just a Keeper deck without white.

[Juggernaut GO]

I remember getting banned for calling out people on meandeck because they pretty much ran the site until scg bought it.

I'm not really sure what era was worse.

I also remember being turned down on multiple occasions when I offered the owner of SCG 10,000$ cash  to buy TMD  just so I could ban people.  One was a memorable exchange in a hotel elevator in Richmond during the winter storm at one of their p9 events.

[zeus-online]

If people are interested in even older stuff i have a link to The Magic Dojo:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990429045129/thedojo.net/historydex.html

Including the primer for the very first control deck (to my knowledge)...The Deck. I remember reading this primer when i just started playing magic and it really was a great help in all of its simplicity.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990223232244/thedojo.net/history/thedeck2.html

[GrandpaBelcher]

Can someone explain what this site is?  http://zherbus.proboards.com/index.cgi

[Marske]

@Lochinvar81,
IIRC that site was created by Z because TMD went "down" to help people keep the discussion going when others were working on getting the "real" TMD back up and running. I remember being around on the "old"  TMD then re-entering the user base in 07 after lurking for a few years. Oh my have things changed, from a high dutch influence (BRAM, Pyromanic, RVS, BigMac etc) to a slight decline in "dutchness" on TMD to the rise of the "New School" Dutchies (Myself, Zieby, Duncan, Mantis, XdeckX, Waikiki)

Good times, we've luckily kept our "Dutchjacking" to a bare minimum although it does tend to happen from time to time....

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

@Lochinvar81,
IIRC that site was created by Z because TMD went "down" to help people keep the discussion going when others were working on getting the "real" TMD back up and running. I remember being around on the "old"  TMD then re-entering the user base in 07 after lurking for a few years. Oh my have things changed, from a high dutch influence (BRAM, Pyromanic, RVS, BigMac etc) to a slight decline in "dutchness" on TMD to the rise of the "New School" Dutchies (Myself, Zieby, Duncan, Mantis, XdeckX, Waikiki)

Good times, we've luckily kept our "Dutchjacking" to a bare minimum although it does tend to happen from time to time....

To quote a great man from the epic movie Goldmember: "There only two things i cant stand in this world. People that are intolerant of other people's culture, and the Dutch". XD

[Rico Suave]

Good times, we've luckily kept our "Dutchjacking" to a bare minimum although it does tend to happen from time to time....

"We don't call it "Holland", we call it "Meandeck Europe".  It's like regular Europe, except by making a few minor changes, we've improved it immeasurably."

-Saucemaster

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=21381.0

[Marske]

And bare witness to the awesomeness that is the:



The mere mention of the word has people "derailing" a thread about TMD's history and sprouting insanity about how they "dislike" the Dutch....oh how epic a folk are we still that we manage these huge feats with ease...

Good times, we've luckily kept our "Dutchjacking" to a bare minimum although it does tend to happen from time to time....

"We don't call it "Holland", we call it "Meandeck Europe".  It's like regular Europe, except by making a few minor changes, we've improved it immeasurably."

-Saucemaster

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=21381.0

Meandecks influence "died" when ISP retired... looks like Reflection took over though or did we Dutch take over Reflection and turned it into RND? who knows who got jacked on that exchange!

[T00L]

Team GGs stopped playing vintage just so we wouldn't get dutch jacked.

[Rico Suave]

Trivia:

Once upon a time a lot of people thought Suicide Black was good.  Threads about this deck would flood the forums, and those threads would be filled with all sorts of flood by posters going back and forth arguing that suicide black was good, no it's not good, etc.

Then Zherbus created the Suicide Black forum.

True story. 

[Yare]

Trivia:

Once upon a time a lot of people thought Suicide Black was good.  Threads about this deck would flood the forums, and those threads would be filled with all sorts of flood by posters going back and forth arguing that suicide black was good, no it's not good, etc.

Then Zherbus created the Suicide Black forum.

True story.  

I definitely remember this now that you mention it. I'm pretty sure some people took it as an affirmation of suicide black's greatness at the time.

[Iron_Chef]

I decided to go look when I registered, and I'm taking a perverse pleasure in being the longest registered "Tournament Organizer" (having never applied for Full Membership).

Hooray for 1-18-2004

This definitely takes me back to the day; it would be cool to get Zherbus, Jacob Orlove, or a few of the other old guard to discuss a specific timeline of TMD.

[Yare]

This definitely takes me back to the day; it would be cool to get Zherbus, Jacob Orlove, or a few of the other old guard to discuss a specific timeline of TMD.

I just messaged a few people in hopes of getting a little more information.

[nataz]

I'm pretty sure the raging goblin story is from Ray - aka - the guy who ran waterbury. I think he was playing belcher...?

The best threads I can remember are the old trash talking threads that got deleted in the forum archive. All I can remember is something Kowal posted about boner guitars and ninjas.

Huge influences from back in the day that no one really remembers include PTW and Kowal (really the entire shortbus team dissapeared), the original Dutch-jackers that I remember (RVS/morefling, Bram, etc), Oscar Tan (the original smmeenmememen), and Jacob Or<3,Toad and Carl Winter (meandeckers). I'd include brassman and Travis on the list, even though both have posted recently.

points to anyone who can remember what the entire meandeck europe comment was about (both the card and the deck).

as far as I know the only owners were Z and Pete (SCG). Travis tried to buy the site, but Pete wouldn't sell (or was it Zherbus wouldn't sell?). The super admins that I can remember were Z -> Jacob -> DA(current)

I think rico covered the different boards pretty well. original -> new server -> [crash] -> proboard temp -> new boards -> new software (I think this was before SCG's buyout) -> SCG ownership


there were tons of petty internet fights and squables that in retrospect are hillarious because of how seriously we all took them.

Does anyone still hang out in the IRC channel?

 

[T00L]

Does anyone still hang out in the IRC channel?

 

yes

[Mantis]

To Feinstein!

[Godder]

I originally came across BDominia as place to discuss Extended(!) because that was my favorite format at the time (this was when Dual Lands were still specifically legal in 1.x), and there were no decent forums at all for Extended, so BD it was. I had been reading Oscar Tan (Rakso) on SCG, so was familiar with BD as a place for Type 1, but K-Run's primer on Parfait got me into Vintage because I liked mono-W decks (my avatar for years was Serra Angel) and here was a cheap Vintage White deck that wasn't terrible.

Back then, big names on BD included Matt D'Avanzo, Azhrei, Rakso, JP Meyer and some others. I also remember some noob getting into some serious arguments/flame wars over Prohibit... When BD died, and TMD was created, a lot of the names moved across, but not all of them. TMD itself started in June, 2002, and by the end of 2002 was using too much bandwidth, and was shut down. However, Zherbus retained FTP access, and he moved the site to a new host. At the end of 2003, the new hosting company shut down TMD because of high bandwidth. The site was deleted as well, and all with no prior warning. TMD was forced to restart from scratch, this time hosted by one of Leviat's friends, although Leviat was able to use the backups to create the archives. Later, TMD was hosted by Leviat himself until it was moved to its present location on the SCG server.

While the supreme overlords have been named already, other admins we've had over the years are Azhrei, Toad, Leviat, Ferrett and me.

Just for kicks, here's some trivia relating to staff:

There were 16 Moderators at different times prior to the reboot in 2004, plus 2 Admins (Zherbus and Azhrei). Post-reboot, 2 of those Moderators became Admins (Toad and Jacob Orlove), and we also acquired Leviat (who looked after the site's back end before SCG and Ferrett took over). JP Meyer was the last original Moderator to stand down. The longest-standing current Moderator is Matt. Post-reboot has seen 15 Moderators, plus 6 of the original crowd for a total of 21 Moderators since the reboot.

As a random exercise in trivia, feel free to guess at as many staff as people want - I have a full list and will mark them as we go along (have obviously given some of them away here).

[TracerBullet]

As a random exercise in trivia, feel free to guess at as many staff as people want - I have a full list and will mark them as we go along (have obviously given some of them away here).

I'll start - Puschkin

[Godder]

Puschkin - yes (Casual Forum).

[Yare]

CHA1N5
Hyperion