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Author Topic: The Dark Times Primer  (Read 148224 times)
Djinn
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« Reply #150 on: January 11, 2011, 11:57:34 am »

I recently started to build/test this and played it at the Grudge match this past weekend. My thoughts were a shops heavy meta, but alas that was not quite the case. I saw Oath, Tezz x 2, and Belcher before I dropped to eat/trade/tichu and was not pleased with how the deck ran. I can post my list sometime, but for now it is MB and I wanted to keep it that way, but with the current state, the green splash is probably necessary to get rid of oath/spheres/CotV@2, etc. I played 2 Null Rod main and 2 in the side and was happy with the disruption it caused; chalice I am unsure about currently but I will have to play around with it. I am also tinkering with Gatekeeper main for an edict effect/bear that puts pressure with a Bob and/or Hexmage; worked at getting rid of a Sphinx/I was able to play it as a bear against Belcher (granted, I know that this is not a deck that I will see often).

Please, post your list.  We can discuss then
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« Reply #151 on: January 11, 2011, 06:41:31 pm »

I also play an unpowered version. So far this is my list... and I would like you to offer your thoughts/advise.
To cut the story short I added power hate removed artifacts and leyline combo and added land destruction, sinkhole and crucible.

Lands:
2 Dark Depths
1 Strip Mine
10 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Creatures:
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant

Sorceries/Instants/Artifacts:
4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
3 Null Rod
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Grim Discovery
1 Necropotence
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Rhystic Tutor
4 Sinkhole
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Darkblast
1 Chalice of the void
1 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Diabolic Edict

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Yixlid Jailer
3 Engineered Plague (meta lots of goblins/elves ->bad matchup)
2 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the void
1 Helm Of Obedience

Thanks in advance for any replies!
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xouman
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« Reply #152 on: January 12, 2011, 06:38:33 am »

This unpowered version is more affordable, so it's quite interesting :p

-Does rhystic tutor work fine? With so many land destruction, opponent can't always pay 2 to prevent tutoring, but how many times is useless?

-It is ok to have 3 urborg and 2 dark depths? Wouldn't be better to play 2 and 3? or even 2 and 2.

-7 duress/tgz? aren't they dead in the middle game?

-Is will useful in this deck? It seems that only works fine with rituals in the grave, and only if opponent countered your creatures.

-2 Diabolic Edict is the correct number?  do you side them out against any pairing? do you feel you want more? would malakir would be better?

-playing grim discovery and crucible, wouldn't 3-4 fetchlands be nice? stifle is not really played this days, althought the deck sacrifices lots of lifes and could be a pain, but drawing less lands in the middle game would be great.

-have you considered unearth? it's a great way to recover confidant, which is key in this deck. If it's not needed, you can always cycle it for a new card...

-when do you side in Ratchet Bomb?


thanks in advance for your answers Smile
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johnnychr
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« Reply #153 on: January 12, 2011, 07:12:34 am »

This unpowered version is more affordable, so it's quite interesting :p

-Does rhystic tutor work fine? With so many land destruction, opponent can't always pay 2 to prevent tutoring, but how many times is useless?
Well, it is another way to get the crucible/strip mine and lock the opponent...you can always cast it when the opponent is taped out to avoid the 2 mana counter. I haven't tested this..it is a new addition i made
-It is ok to have 3 urborg and 2 dark depths? Wouldn't be better to play 2 and 3? or even 2 and 2.
For me works well. Don't forget that your wastelands will also produce black mana this way
-7 duress/tgz? aren't they dead in the middle game?
They might be bad for mid game not always though because in vintage there are many ways to draw many cards, but i would love every game to start with one of these at hand...so no for me they are not many
-Is will useful in this deck? It seems that only works fine with rituals in the grave, and only if opponent countered your creatures.
I rarely used it tbh, but it was good enough to blow a ratchet and then play it again. It also brings back the combo Wink
-2 Diabolic Edict is the correct number?  do you side them out against any pairing? do you feel you want more? would malakir would be better?
2 work for me. Also 2 mana better than 3 (all black as well)Never sided them out so far
-playing grim discovery and crucible, wouldn't 3-4 fetchlands be nice? stifle is not really played this days, althought the deck sacrifices lots of lifes and could be a pain, but drawing less lands in the middle game would be great.
yes fetches could be nice, I could think adding 2..no more because of bob
-have you considered unearth? it's a great way to recover confidant, which is key in this deck. If it's not needed, you can always cycle it for a new card...
No I haven't.With 4 of them in the deck I don't think I need to unearth and I can't remember him in graveyard in the games I played in tourneys so far. Possibly a meta option? It is a nice suggestion tho...
-when do you side in Ratchet Bomb?
Against aggro decks for 1 or 2 and also against enchantments.


We can discuss further my answers if u r not satisfied, and find alternatives. I am open for any ideas to improve the deck
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 07:28:25 am by johnnychr » Logged
mijah
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« Reply #154 on: January 12, 2011, 09:07:09 am »

Djinn,

Here is what I run currently:

Lands:
2 Dark Depths
1 Strip Mine
11 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Creatures:
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir

Sorceries/Instants/Artifacts/etc.:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
2 Null Rod
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Imperial Seal

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Emissary of Despair
2 Null Rod
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Perish
1 Darkblast
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Snuff Out
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Powder Keg
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« Reply #155 on: January 18, 2011, 02:59:21 pm »

At star city san jose I was in the finals of a dark times mirror match for an 8 man win a drain.  I beat gush and tps with the same board plan.  I made a mistake of thinking the 2nd opponent couldnt storm me out through a trinisphere and took his repeal vs a tendrils to lose 1 game but otherwise the games weren't all that memorable.

as for the mirror, his version had sensei's divining top and hypnotic spectre, and engineered plague in the board (which he played calling "vampire", knowing he could win off spectre where I could only beat down with bob)

I am still playing the mono black list +/- 2 cards from Max's original.

I found the most important card in the mirror was Bitterblossom from the board.  My boarding was close to if not exactly

-4 leyline of the void
-1 helm of obedience
-1 lotus petal
-1 ?

+2 bitterblossom
+2 diabolic edict
+1 darkblast
+1 sadistic sacrament
+1 pithing needle
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« Reply #156 on: January 30, 2011, 01:50:07 pm »

2nd lawl - how the heck do you handle an "oathed" up Iona?  she's getting getting on my nerves   Very Happy
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« Reply #157 on: February 08, 2011, 02:55:59 pm »

I'm looking for some advice on this deck after getting railed to the tune of 0-4 in a small weekly tourney last night (12 players I think).  Here the fairly standard list I ran:

3 Dark Depths
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
12 Swamp
5 Wasteland/strip mine
2 Mox, Black Lotus

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Null Rod
1 Necropotence
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Leyline
4 Hexmage
4 Confidant
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Tutors (Demoic, Consultation, Imperial Seal, Vampiric)

Board:
1 Crucible of Worlds (for shops)
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Emissary of Despair
2 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Massacre
1 perish


I faced 2 blue decks (Jace control with Tinker-bot, Vault-Key and Jace/Tezz as win-cons) and 2 Aggro shop decks with metalworker. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I made multiple play errors since this was my first time piloting the deck.  It was mentioned somewhere above that selecting tutor targets is the most difficult aspect of the deck.  I would say out of the gate though, that I plan to drop helm, and maybe the leylines altogether to get the full 4 null rods in the main.  It's the only card that can keep you in the game long enough to land and protect the win-con. 

Here are some scenarios I faced.
Consult brought my deck down to 10 cards looking for 1 of 3 dark confidants, removing all 3 dark depths.
First turn consult for emissary, ritual into emissary against MUD.  After 1 swing he lands trike and resistors - GG
MUD topdecks a second sphere, and I lose with helm-line on the board unable to activate for the win
Marit Lage repealed
Duplicant on Marit Lage (ouch)
Double wasteland with Dark depths and hexmage on the board
Urborg as only black source allows my opponent to cantrip his Nihil spellbomb to draw the repeal he just tutored.

All in all a frustrating night.  I plan to give it another go, but was wondering if anyone had experiences to share in tutoring properly, and what are good options to replace helm-line (rods, tendrils, phyrexian negator against control decks?)
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Daenyth
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« Reply #158 on: February 09, 2011, 07:21:23 pm »

MUD topdecks a second sphere, and I lose with helm-line on the board unable to activate for the win
How does that work exactly? Sphere only affects casting, not activating. It should just cost  {1}
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« Reply #159 on: February 09, 2011, 09:22:59 pm »

MUD topdecks a second sphere, and I lose with helm-line on the board unable to activate for the win
How does that work exactly? Sphere only affects casting, not activating. It should just cost  {1}
[/

It does just cost 1 to activate as Sphere only effect casting cost not activation costs. You could have won that match : (
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« Reply #160 on: February 09, 2011, 10:03:25 pm »

MUD topdecks a second sphere, and I lose with helm-line on the board unable to activate for the win
How does that work exactly? Sphere only affects casting, not activating. It should just cost  {1}
[/

It does just cost 1 to activate as Sphere only effect casting cost not activation costs. You could have won that match : (

Over three turns I hardcast Leyline under 1 sphere.  Then tutored for helm and would have sufficient mana to play and activate it the next turn, when my opponent played another sphere.  I wasn't very clear on that.  I had to tap out to play the helm, and with his triskelion my opponent had lethal on the board.  It was a close game. 
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2nd_lawl
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« Reply #161 on: February 10, 2011, 04:09:12 am »

Duplicant on Marit Lage (ouch)

So what you are trying to say is your Opponent cheated? Read Duplicant.

Edit: I find it pretty insulting that you do badly at a tournament, Come right out and admit that you made tons of play errors, and the first thing thing you try and do is change the deck.  Perhaps its my fault in that I havent provided detailed enough instructions on how to play the deck correctly, but whenever i see other people playing it I feel like stabbing my fucking eyes out.  This deck Happens to be semi budget friendly but it is NOT an easy deck to play.  The majority of your wins against blue decks will NOT be turn 2 kills, they will be protracted resource wars: If you misplay duress/seize you will lose, If you misplay a tutor you will lose, If you Fight over their mana when you should be fighting over their cards or visa-versa, you will lose.  You get all the information: you generally know all or most of your opponents cards.  That said, played correctly your matchup with various flavors of jace decks is excellent, Your oath Matchup is excellent, your storm matchup is even or slightly favored (unless they are straight up ad-nauseum), your dredge matchup is stone unlosable, and the MUD matchup is passable and even favorable against some builds on the play.  Your maindeck list is mostly fine (although I fucking hate gatekeeper of malakir, that card is stains against everythinbg but fish, just play crucible maindeck)

I am of the opinion that if you want to beat shops you need Both  Engineered Explosives and Snuff Out, along with ghost quarter, I also like mana crypt vs Shops. Sadistic sacrament is garbage unless you expect tons of Storm decks, as that is all they are really good against at this point.  Nihil spellbomb is just unnessary, 4 leyline, 2 Jailer + the 5 maindeck and 2 SB waste effects w/ crucible combined with the fact that hexmage can nuke bridges should me MORE than enough to beat dredge.  Massacre is garbage, Perish is fine if you expect alot of fish, but not worth it otherwise,  Engineered plague is the more versatile card since you can bring it in against Oath and fish.  If you expect infinite oath, cut a swamp for a phyrexian tower maindeck.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 04:38:20 am by 2nd_lawl » Logged

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« Reply #162 on: February 10, 2011, 04:41:02 am »

2nd lawl - how the heck do you handle an "oathed" up Iona?  she's getting getting on my nerves   Very Happy
Karakas, or just don't let them oath: Phyrexian Tower and Engineered Plague are both good for this.
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« Reply #163 on: February 10, 2011, 11:30:00 am »

I can't figure how engineered explosives is key in the shops matchup Sad I know a friend who plays it for 0 under two spheres (or for 1 under 1 sphere), paying 2 different colored mana so it effectively destroys all CC2 permanents (including bobs). Are explosives here to destroy moxen?

Surely I'm losing something...
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« Reply #164 on: February 10, 2011, 12:56:18 pm »

I can't figure how engineered explosives is key in the shops matchup Sad I know a friend who plays it for 0 under two spheres (or for 1 under 1 sphere), paying 2 different colored mana so it effectively destroys all CC2 permanents (including bobs). Are explosives here to destroy moxen?

Surely I'm losing something...

EE is there to get rid of the otherwise seriously bothersome chalice of the void (which is painful when set on 2...). The fact that it kills moxen is icing on the cake...

EDIT:

Also, Ive recently dded a 1-off tendrills to the deck (kicked an edict for it) and I really like it as it's such an easy way to win right after you've walked in a couple of times with dark confidant or hexmage. (probably because I liked Forino Black back in the day...)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 02:21:15 pm by overseer1234 » Logged
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« Reply #165 on: February 10, 2011, 10:32:42 pm »

Edit: I find it pretty insulting that you do badly at a tournament, Come right out and admit that you made tons of play errors, and the first thing thing you try and do is change the deck.  

Well, at least now we know how to get the designer to respond to the thread!  In all seriousness, I felt I was pretty open in admitting my personal limitations with the deck, and apologize if you took offense to my post. First time in a tournament setting is bound to yield a lot of...teachable moments.  I did a lot of testing against my opponents after the matches and began to get a feel for the decision trees.  That said, your point is well taken.  Thing is, MUD, and in particular aggro based Metalworker MUD has been putting up some impressive numbers lately.  Maybe I misinterpreted my poor showing as being a weakness in the build itself against a changing field.  It's been stated many times on this thread that the deck is difficult to pilot.  I conceded that my tutoring decision tree was really challenging.  BTW, thanks for the call on Duplicant (non-token).

I went back and reread your tourney report from this thread, and noted that helm-line won you multiple matches, yet at the beginning of thread, it appears you side the combo out in a majority of matches.  Are you getting the combo online when Leyline isn't in your opener?  Do you ever tutor for the parts with that as the primary win-con over Hex-Depths?  Also, having to tutor for your disruption (i.e. singleton null rod) rather than drawing it is not insignificant when facing a 4-turn clock with a sphere effect attached.

I like the suggestion for crucible over gatekeeper.  Do you think ratchet bomb could come in over EE, or is EE strictly better?  If so, why?  Have you dumped Bitterblossom in the SB?

The feedback is appreciated.  After all, you designed the deck, and know it's interactions better than anyone else here.  I feel that tourney reports are very helpful in understanding the deck, so if you have time to post any more, I for one would be greatly appreciative. 
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« Reply #166 on: February 11, 2011, 02:56:22 am »

ratchet bomb wont give you an out to chalice for 2 hence the EE
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« Reply #167 on: February 11, 2011, 03:41:51 pm »

Edit: I find it pretty insulting that you do badly at a tournament, Come right out and admit that you made tons of play errors, and the first thing thing you try and do is change the deck.  

Well, at least now we know how to get the designer to respond to the thread!  In all seriousness, I felt I was pretty open in admitting my personal limitations with the deck, and apologize if you took offense to my post. First time in a tournament setting is bound to yield a lot of...teachable moments.  I did a lot of testing against my opponents after the matches and began to get a feel for the decision trees.  That said, your point is well taken.  Thing is, MUD, and in particular aggro based Metalworker MUD has been putting up some impressive numbers lately.  Maybe I misinterpreted my poor showing as being a weakness in the build itself against a changing field.  It's been stated many times on this thread that the deck is difficult to pilot.  I conceded that my tutoring decision tree was really challenging.  BTW, thanks for the call on Duplicant (non-token).
I wasnt offended by your post per se, just the general trend of this thread.  Go read a thread of one of the blue decks and see if its filled with people who have never played or played the deck once suggesting that they cut tinker.

I went back and reread your tourney report from this thread, and noted that helm-line won you multiple matches, yet at the beginning of thread, it appears you side the combo out in a majority of matches.  Are you getting the combo online when Leyline isn't in your opener?  Do you ever tutor for the parts with that as the primary win-con over Hex-Depths?  Also, having to tutor for your disruption (i.e. singleton null rod) rather than drawing it is not insignificant when facing a 4-turn clock with a sphere effect attached.

Yes Helm-line comes out in a majority of matches, Its generally worse then your Specific Sideboard Hate for those matches.  Even if Helm-line is only 40%(these are made up numbers) Effective against the the feild (and 90% effectrive vs dredge) It beats playing a bunch of null rods which makes it so that you can practically Never win G1 Against Shops or Fish.  The reason Helm Line is there g1 Is that its superior to be proactive against unknown opponents then to fill your deck with a bunch of "wrong" reactive cards like null rod.  The Helm itself Hedges against the Leyline(which has SOME utility against practically every deck due to will, crucibe, and Tarmogoyf)But the Null Rod can be and actual nothing and even hurt YOU in some matchups.  We can hedge further by playing the 1 null rod main, which its a great tutor target not because its so good against many decks but because its very good in particular situations agianst blue decks.  Null Rod is a necessary Evil, it is NOT a good card.  If you replaced helm/line with 3 null rods + whatever Your dredge matchup woyld become SIGNIFICANTLY worse on the order of 20-30%, your Fish Matchup would be worse, your MUD Matchup would be WORSE then it already is(null rod is terrible vs mud),  Your Already Positive Blue Matchups would Improve Slightly (as it is I dont even Like the full compliment of Rods Post-board against decks like Oath for example, and Have gone down to 1 main 2 SB Before and am considering doing it again) g1. The only matchup that gets significantly better is probably Ad Nauseum, but almost noone plays that deck.

I like the suggestion for crucible over gatekeeper.  Do you think ratchet bomb could come in over EE, or is EE strictly better?  If so, why?  Have you dumped Bitterblossom in the SB?

EE Is necessary to Kill Chalice at 2.  basically If you play against workshop opponents who arent idiots they know that the best way to beat this deck is Chalice at 2. It also can do alot of neat tricks, I think I went over them earlier in the thread.


The feedback is appreciated.  After all, you designed the deck, and know it's interactions better than anyone else here.  I feel that tourney reports are very helpful in understanding the deck, so if you have time to post any more, I for one would be greatly appreciative. 

I haven't played Anything since the grudge match(the one in NY).  I am not a primarily vintage Player and am working hard on extended right now, The reason I like Vintage is that it moves so slowly that I don't have to put in nearly as much work keeping up with what is going on.
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« Reply #168 on: February 14, 2011, 04:46:37 am »

Quote
your MUD Matchup would be WORSE then it already is(null rod is terrible vs mud)
.
2nd lawl do you believe that this shift to the meta meaning a lot more metalworkers on the board isn t a reasonable answer playing more null rods on the second match specifically when you play first? or we normally board in the usual hate meaning EE, snuff out, 2* quarter,mana crypt, 2* emissary of despair taking out null rod, necro, 5*helm/void?
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« Reply #169 on: February 14, 2011, 09:10:11 am »

How do you get Engineered Explosives up to 2 with only black mana in the deck?

I like your point about Helm/line being strongly defensive (Leyline), but also very proactive (leyline and Helm). Any number of Nullrods are not win conditions, but yes Helm/line is.
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« Reply #170 on: February 14, 2011, 09:37:41 am »

How do you get Engineered Explosives up to 2 with only black mana in the deck?

I like your point about Helm/line being strongly defensive (Leyline), but also very proactive (leyline and Helm). Any number of Nullrods are not win conditions, but yes Helm/line is.

Leave it at zero. (;
Sunburst != CMC
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« Reply #171 on: February 14, 2011, 08:52:11 pm »

Quote
your MUD Matchup would be WORSE then it already is(null rod is terrible vs mud)
.
2nd lawl do you believe that this shift to the meta meaning a lot more metalworkers on the board isn t a reasonable answer playing more null rods on the second match specifically when you play first? or we normally board in the usual hate meaning EE, snuff out, 2* quarter,mana crypt, 2* emissary of despair taking out null rod, necro, 5*helm/void?

I would like nothing more then for every one of my MUD opponents to begin they games with metalworker, go.  Firstly you can just edict/snuff out it alot of the time or You can just ignore it and make a 20/20.  If your Hand cant kill a creature or make a 20/20, why did you keep it against Workshops? AT LEAST you should be able to mess up their next turn with thoughtsieze.  The only time metalworker is even good against you is if you keep a hand like 2 Wastelands, 2 Swamp, Crucible, Hexmage, EE and you were hoping for them to go workshop sphere, so you can lock them under their own spheres with wasteland (+ee to kill moxes if necessary).  I could see leaving 1 null rod in against a deck with metalworker and steel hellkite. In that case cut yawgs will(which should come out before necro anyway VS shops).  One more point is they are a welder controllish build, its actually reasonable to leave Helmline, especially if they are playing bazaar. If you leave in helmline Then you want to cut rod, necro, will, and 4 duresses on the draw.  This is a better plan than duress against decks that want to chalice2 you on the play, since you can still win.
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« Reply #172 on: February 14, 2011, 08:53:02 pm »

How do you get Engineered Explosives up to 2 with only black mana in the deck?

I like your point about Helm/line being strongly defensive (Leyline), but also very proactive (leyline and Helm). Any number of Nullrods are not win conditions, but yes Helm/line is.

Chalice of the void's CMC is 0
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« Reply #173 on: February 17, 2011, 04:08:49 am »

Quote
In that case cut yawgs will(which should come out before necro anyway VS shops)
2nd lawl you are right about it. i have forgotten this because i havent tested the deck since the introduction of SCARS. but i also want to say that i cut necro because of pithing needle. i would use this card for trisk, hellkite, mine/ crucible if they have it online.
without any playtesting i think that dark times has a better chance against the modern workshop decklists (after SCARS). but i m afraid that MBS add nothing to our arsenal. so we stick to your last version.
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« Reply #174 on: April 04, 2011, 09:24:49 pm »

Sorry to necro this thread, but I think a card that definitely deserves some discussion for Dark Times is the following juicy spoiled critter from New Phyrexia:

Hex Parasite         {1}

Artifact Creature — Parasite

X[PB]: Target a Permanent. Remove up to X counter from that permanent. Hex Parasite gains +1/+0 for each counter removed this way.

(PB may be paid with either  {B} or 2 life)

1/1

This might be a solid solution to Smokestack & Tanglewire that gets around Chalice @1, Thorn AND Lodestone. Just thought I'd point him out for discussion.

-Storm
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« Reply #175 on: April 05, 2011, 03:36:41 am »

It also gets around Needle on Hexmage, as you can get all of the counters off DD in 2 in 3 turns.
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #176 on: April 05, 2011, 05:49:56 am »

He also takes down Planeswalkers without having to attack.  Nice addition to the deck, I think.
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« Reply #177 on: April 06, 2011, 10:32:13 am »

it seems early (without seeing all the other cards of the set) but i believe hex parasite deserves it. the opinions regarding its use vs tangle wire, smokestack, chalice at @2 (it is not a typo as we all know that is the main problem- semi instant loss of this deck vs MUD) as well as that it can pass through lodestone and thorn (these are the 8/13 of the resistors of MUD) intrigue me very much. As we all know until now the sb plan vs MUD is adding:
2 * emissary
2 * quarter
1 * EE
1 * snuff out
1 * mana crypt
From these cards the best canditate to cut is in my opinion emissary of despair. she is a nice clock but her sole use is vs MUD minimising the design space of our sb. i believe that hex parasite deserves these spots as it can play the role of the defender vs golems that emissary couldnt in addition with all the other abilities which are the main reasons we discuss about this card.

In addition this can be useful vs plainswalkers, remora, gemstone mine, aether vial and in extremely rare situations activating Marit Lage as mentioned above or in general strategy discussion. Hex parasite gives us the opportunity to add an extremely useful tool that will help greatly.

Enough about it for now. The other card that may be useful is praetors grip. i am not sure if this one is useful to this deck but it may help us vs blue based decks. some applications:
stealing an orchard from oath
yawgmoths will
tendrils
natures claim or ancestrall recall (we could also play them if thre is black lotus or lotus petal online. extremely rare)
demonic tutor (and play it too!)
vampiric tutor
pithing needle/ crucible/ mana artifact
strip mine/ wasteland
time vault
tinker/fatty
dark confidant
i find this card extremely versatileand may serve double duty either by pseudo sad saccing an opponent to avoid a coup de grace if we already are in a disadvantageous position (for example voltaic key allready on play) or by stealing someting dependind of the game state to use it as soon as possible (see some ideas above).
i find it better than sad sac and it may worth a try as a one of in sb.
looking forward for your opinions.
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2nd_lawl
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« Reply #178 on: April 10, 2011, 04:52:24 am »

hex parasite is a very real card.
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« Reply #179 on: April 19, 2011, 12:10:25 am »

Last sunday I participated in The Black Border Brawl tournament and got 3rd/4th place with dark time's, winning a tundra.

My actual List wil fllos (when it's put online I can simply copy/Paste it)

Round 1:Dredge
G1 I didn't get to scout so I didn't go for the free win with turn 1 leyline... he get's bazaar, I wasteland, then follow up with hexmage, he goes to play that land that gets his bazaa back, I can delay him for a while but my 20/20 come's to late as my first hexmage catches a darkblast...
G2: Double leyline and a jailer get there
G3: leyline+wasteland + EE for 0 and the 20/20 gets me there.

Round 2 MUD
G1: Pretty much get smacked around by golem's...
G2: I get the turn 1 Emissary, but his wormcoil engine make's him able to race... in the end I did 31 damage, but the lifelink sucks...

Round 3 MUD
G1: (I knew he was playing mud as he won against my girlfriend last round) I get the perfect had, Turn 1 urborg into dark ritual into hexmage + pithing needle naming wasteladn, turn 2 dark depth's and nog tangle wire means GG
G2: I get turn 1 leyline, mox+swamp and demonic for helm, topdeck lotus and GG it was... (I got lucky, ...)

Round 4 JaceVault
G1: I cad thoughtseize him and get the win on the table (next turn 20/20) but he topdecks the tiem vault so that was GG
G2: I get a good start with keyline, some discard + confidant, then he twisters and gets me the saddistic sacrament, my hexmage ( already have dark depth's in play) and enough stuff to tendrils for the win... nuff said....
G3: I duress and see oath (WTF) I draw nothing for a while, and try to thoughtseize + confidant but he had a hand consisting out of oath drain force Force, so I take the oath again...
We play draw go for a while and I find tendrills more discard and my sadistic sacrament and am able to bait his counters and tendrills for 12 life+ get my confidant to resolve (strange), but he put his oath on top with brainstorm so I get a free attack with confidant, (he's at 6 because of confidant+ tendrills + fetch)) he oath's up terrastodon and blows up his oath and some of his own.
I play my hexmage, he atacks with terrastodon and a token, I edict and topdeck my next edict. I draw some more hexmages and that was that.

Round 5: jacevault/Gush
G1:pretty standard discard vs countermagic game with me winnign with the 20/20token...
G2: more of the same realy but now with helm kill (I sided out 2 leyline's and get them both in my hand together with lotus and a tutor)

Round 6: ID into the top 8


T8:Gush vault
G1: he goed broekn with turn 1 jace TMS, ancestral+lotus+ saphire+ SDT and what not.... I get T1 rituals into duress (getting the 2nd jace) and hexmage to get rid of his jace. he draws vampiric (put safe away with brainstorm) and getw yagmoth's will to replay his stuff + jace. I vampiric for needle and needle jace, and het get rid of needle and goes on to win.
G2: I go balls to the wall here with only 1 swamp and go... EOT consultation for black lutus (7th card from the bothom) duress + lotus + hexmage + dark depth's and he doesnt fund his answer...
G3: I get mox, rutuals duress canfidant and waste his sea, I draw necropotence, he counters, and then he's out of gass and I tendrils him for the last 10-ish life...

T4: MUD
G1:He get's chalice for 2 and then hardlocks with smokestack and crucible...
G2: phyrexian revoker for hexmage + chalice at 0, crucible, then  revoker for helm, and then mishra's factory and more stuff... Yeah, this went downhill fast.

Props:
nice to have this deck preform so damn broken sometimes
Good location and really friendly people all around great tournament.

Slop's:
MUD
The sandwiches not being that good and the hot water for the noodle's wasn't hot enough...
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