serracollector
|
 |
« Reply #150 on: September 21, 2010, 03:22:16 am » |
|
Liquimetal Coating would be ridiculous if its real.
It would make quite a few "new" decks in t1 I would think. Its synergies are crazy with so many cards. Also, on top of using it for gorilla shaman/LD shannagins, it also gives easy access to killing planeswalkers.
LMC + Energy Flux is also extremly evil.
LMC + Voltaic Key is absurd. LMC + high CC w/e + Karn is funny.
LMC + Viashino Heretic = clock.
LMC + Memnarch is cheaper....
LMC + Academy gives 2 mana....
anyways I digress. I doubt the card is real. At least for that cost.
|
|
|
Logged
|
B/R discussions are not allowed outside of Vintage Issues, and that includes signatures.
|
|
|
BruiZar
|
 |
« Reply #151 on: September 21, 2010, 03:46:19 am » |
|
 Too bad its green, nice effect
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
serracollector
|
 |
« Reply #152 on: September 21, 2010, 03:51:27 am » |
|
Wouldn't Genesis Wave be a really sick card in some kind of manland deck? Not in vintage probably, but in legacy or extended? Imagine hitting a wave of like 10, and hitting 6 lands, and 4 standstills. lol?
|
|
|
Logged
|
B/R discussions are not allowed outside of Vintage Issues, and that includes signatures.
|
|
|
|
brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
   
Posts: 1333
|
 |
« Reply #154 on: September 21, 2010, 07:25:53 am » |
|
We'll know soon enough whether the Coating is real. I think it's powerful and fun, but not broken by Vintage standards. Compare   and two cards (Shaman, Coating) to destroy a land to  and two artifacts to take infinite turns.
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards. And then the clouds divide... something is revealed in the skies."
|
|
|
BruiZar
|
 |
« Reply #155 on: September 22, 2010, 05:13:11 am » |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 05:20:37 am by BruiZar »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
BruiZar
|
 |
« Reply #157 on: September 22, 2010, 06:52:40 am » |
|
Infect will take the place of berserk stompy. I will write a set review in a couple of days. Buy recommendation, Foil Invigorates and beta Berserks Something new for the Metalworker.   Oh damn, my charge counter deck is gonna LUV the cannon!  Another interesting option to combat GY strategies. Unlike Relic, only targets your opponent's GY. Also, one mana cheaper. (Unless you decide to draw the card.)  Mini Tangle Wire. Reminds me of Phyrexian Gremlins  Solid card for redshop aggro. deals 9 damage over 2 active turns and costs 3 mana only.  This creature is nuts  This is really efficient burn.  Poor man's Berserk, sorceryspeed, no trample, but first strike and double jitte counters.  Ambivalent Duck fodder!   Another poor mans berserk  New 1 mana counterspell, not very strong but hard counters for 1 mana always need attention.
|
|
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 07:21:49 am by BruiZar »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Troy_Costisick
|
 |
« Reply #158 on: September 22, 2010, 06:57:16 am » |
|
Will this replace Null Rod in R/G Decks? Interesting...
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Nehptis
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 562
|
 |
« Reply #159 on: September 22, 2010, 08:39:56 am » |
|
I'm missing something here. What's so great about Liquimetal Coating?
It taps to turn a perm to an artifact until EOT. Cool, but not great in Vintage. What did I miss?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Phele
Basic User
 
Posts: 562
Tom Bombadil
|
 |
« Reply #160 on: September 22, 2010, 08:49:05 am » |
|
Natures Claim, Trygon Predators, Gorilla Shamans are already Vintage staples. Togehte with this they get even more broken.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow; Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
Free Illusionary Mask!!
|
|
|
AmbivalentDuck
Tournament Organizers
Basic User
 
Posts: 2807
Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
|
 |
« Reply #161 on: September 22, 2010, 08:59:09 am » |
|
Natures Claim, Trygon Predators, Gorilla Shamans are already Vintage staples. Togehte with this they have much more utility.
Fixed
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Klep
OMG I'M KLEP!
Administrator
Basic User
    
Posts: 1872
|
 |
« Reply #162 on: September 22, 2010, 09:06:20 am » |
|
Natures Claim, Trygon Predators, Gorilla Shamans are already Vintage staples. Togehte with this they have much more utility.
Fixed And whether that's worth running an otherwise completely dead card is an entirely different question.
|
|
|
Logged
|
So I suppose I should take The Fringe back out of my sig now...
|
|
|
Troy_Costisick
|
 |
« Reply #163 on: September 22, 2010, 09:26:01 am » |
|
I'm missing something here. What's so great about Liquimetal Coating?
It taps to turn a perm to an artifact until EOT. Cool, but not great in Vintage. What did I miss?
I don't know. Think it would be cool to blow up your opponent's Mishra's Factory using Gorilla Shaman or Ancient Grudge? Blow up Jace or Oath using Tinstreet Hooligan?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Aace
|
 |
« Reply #164 on: September 22, 2010, 09:30:36 am » |
|
It requires a little tailoring, but the beauty of it is that it doesn't require your deck to run crap for it to be good. Sure, it's useless by itself, but artifact destruction should already be included in your deck, and they work wonders even without Liquidmetal.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
RecklessEmbermage
|
 |
« Reply #165 on: September 22, 2010, 10:34:46 am » |
|
Tainted strike looks fun with dreadnought.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
nineisnoone
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 902
The Laughing Magician
|
 |
« Reply #166 on: September 22, 2010, 10:43:54 am » |
|
Natures Claim, Trygon Predators, Gorilla Shamans are already Vintage staples. Togehte with this they have much more utility.
Fixed And whether that's worth running an otherwise completely dead card is an entirely different question. I think so, yes. Compare it to Cruicible + Stip Mine. 3 mana upfront and 1ish mana (since it's taking up your land drop) to lock them out of their lands. Shaman + Liquimetal is 3 mana upfront and 1 mana to lock them out of their lands. It's not like Crucible has a huge amount of utility on it's own either.
|
|
|
Logged
|
I laugh a great deal because I like to laugh, but everything I say is deadly serious.
|
|
|
Klep
OMG I'M KLEP!
Administrator
Basic User
    
Posts: 1872
|
 |
« Reply #167 on: September 22, 2010, 10:54:01 am » |
|
It requires a little tailoring, but the beauty of it is that it doesn't require your deck to run crap for it to be good. Sure, it's useless by itself, but artifact destruction should already be included in your deck, and they work wonders even without Liquidmetal.
So you don't have to run any terrible cards for it to be good, except for itself, because it's useless on its own. And on top of that, the cards it improves are already very good without it. This is not a convincing or even compelling argument.
|
|
|
Logged
|
So I suppose I should take The Fringe back out of my sig now...
|
|
|
Nehptis
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 562
|
 |
« Reply #168 on: September 22, 2010, 11:01:02 am » |
|
I'm with Klep on this. A fun card, yes. But, a useful card, no. I don't see it having an impact on Vintage.
If I have to choose between this and Null Rod, I choose Null Rod. If I have to choose between this and other spots in a non-Null Rod deck like other utility, Counter Spells, or Draw. I don't choose this.
There will be at least one Vintage Star in Scars. The question is which one. The Mox will be $$$. But, not too impactful. I'll get back to you on my thoughts.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Razvan
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 772
|
 |
« Reply #169 on: September 22, 2010, 01:00:19 pm » |
|
I don't know. Think it would be cool to blow up your opponent's Mishra's Factory using Gorilla Shaman or Ancient Grudge? Blow up Jace or Oath using Tinstreet Hooligan? Gorilla Shaman still couldn't kill Factory (I suppose you can both mana sink in response to him making it a creature), and Grudge already can.  Did you mean workshop?
|
|
|
Logged
|
Insult my mother, insult my sister, insult my girlfriend... but never ever use the words "restrict" and "Workshop" in the same sentence...
|
|
|
Nehptis
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 562
|
 |
« Reply #170 on: September 22, 2010, 01:10:47 pm » |
|
OK, I'm back. My thoughts on Scars for Vintage:
There will be a Top Poison deck in Vintage. But, it will get the same bad PR as Flash decks did and something will get neutered. Leonin Arbiter will become a Fish staple. Kuldotha Forgemaster will have some success in Shop decks. Prototype Portal will be tried with minimal to zero success in Shop decks.
Legacy:
Secretly hoping that Copperhorn Scout can make Opposition decks viable again!
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
The Atog Lord
|
 |
« Reply #171 on: September 22, 2010, 01:49:53 pm » |
|
Nephtis, what do you think the Vintage poison deck will be?
|
|
|
Logged
|
The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
|
|
|
TopSecret
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 864
|
 |
« Reply #172 on: September 22, 2010, 01:59:41 pm » |
|
My guess is he is referring to the synergy between Poison guy + 4 power pump and maybe + double strike enabler/Berserk. There are a bunch of each type of card and they are all inexpensive (or free) to cast. Meaning you can easily assemble a hand that kills by turn 2/3 every game if unmolested and in a redundant way, with an aggro backup plan. I have not yet bothered to figure out how good this will be.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ball and Chain
|
|
|
BruiZar
|
 |
« Reply #173 on: September 22, 2010, 03:30:06 pm » |
|
The poison deckThe Infect mechanic will leave its mark on Eternal. Infect is a natural evolution for Berserk Stompy. Kavu Predator, pumped by Invigorate, Skyshroud Cutter, Swords to Plowshares and Reverent Silence, used to be the muscle of the deck. Kavu Predator turns the alternate costs of your cards into an advantage and a threat by growing your Kavu Predator. In the days of Kavu Predator, you would have to attack at least once to nullify the life gain effects of Invigorate and the other support cards. The following turn is the first opportunity to capitalize on your pumped Kavu Predator.  The infect mechanic completely ignores life totals, adding poison counters instead. This makes life gain irrelevant. In Berserk stompy, life gain was turned into an advantage, but with the introduction of the Infect mechanic, life totals become irrelevant. This means that the extra turn required to remove the life gain is gone which results in a great tempo boost. With infect, you only need to deal 10 points of damage, which means your Invigorates, berserks, Might of Old Krosa's, Bounty of the Hunts, are now doubly effective. These critical improvements of the archetype will result in a much more competitive and aggressive deck capable of winning on the second turn.   Another important piece of the puzzle is the creature type. Ichor Rats and Plague Stinger are Rats and Insects that can be regenerated with Swarmyard. This means that the Infect Stompy player can slice and dice Tarmogoyf and Regenerate. Berserk doesn´t require you to sacrifice the creature, but destroys it at the end of your turn. Swarmyard protects your vermin from getting destroyed by Berserk. 
|
|
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 03:37:46 pm by BruiZar »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
   
Posts: 1333
|
 |
« Reply #174 on: September 22, 2010, 04:52:54 pm » |
|
The Crucible comparison is very apt and was the card that came to mind for me when thinking of a card that does nothing on its own but enables an advantage afterwards that it's justified. Coating has that potential. It wouldn't take the place of Null Rod in a deck that runs Shaman since Shaman is usually occupying the space devoted to taking care of artifact mana. Crucbile + Strip =  and a land drop to destroy any land once per turn. But Strip Mine is restricted. So the effect drops to destroy any nonbasic land once per turn. Crucible can be countered, but Strip/Waste cannot. Vulnerable to artifact destruction. Good synergy with Smokestack. Enables re-use of fetchlands & utility lands. Coating + Shaman =   , payable in installments of  and  , to destroy any land or Mox for  . Expands to destroy larger noncreature artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers. Neither is restricted. Either can be countered. Vulnerable to artifact destruction and creature removal. Good synergy with Ancient Grudge and any artifact removal. Enables shenanigans with Goblin Welder, Magus of the Unseen, Qasali Pridemage, Voltaic Key, Tolarian Academy, Emissary of Despair, Hurkyl's Recall and more. Non-obvious obscure uses also, like saving a creature from The Abyss or sacrificing an Academy Rector to Tinker. It looks like they both have pros & cons, and that says a lot for the Coating, given that Crucible + Strip is one of the best locks in the game.
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards. And then the clouds divide... something is revealed in the skies."
|
|
|
BruiZar
|
 |
« Reply #175 on: September 22, 2010, 04:56:05 pm » |
|
If you have 1 shaman, drawing multiple coatings isn't drawing dead either.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
   
Posts: 1333
|
 |
« Reply #176 on: September 22, 2010, 04:57:02 pm » |
|
If you have 1 shaman, drawing multiple coatings isn't drawing dead either.
Good point, BruiZ. BTW, nice layout on the Infect cards.
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards. And then the clouds divide... something is revealed in the skies."
|
|
|
Troy_Costisick
|
 |
« Reply #177 on: September 22, 2010, 04:59:42 pm » |
|
If you have 1 shaman, drawing multiple coatings isn't drawing dead either.
Damn good point.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
FlyFlySideOfFry
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 412
|
 |
« Reply #178 on: September 22, 2010, 06:15:38 pm » |
|
If you have 1 shaman, drawing multiple coatings isn't drawing dead either.
Damn good point. In the same line of thinking if some sort of deck takes off running Shaman/Coating and decides to run Key/Vault as well it gives you tricks like making Academy an artifact and adding tons of mana with Key or just blowing up 2 permanents for  with Key+Coating+Shaman. Slaver 2k11 is looking hot. :O
|
|
|
Logged
|
Mickey Mouse is on a Magic card. Your argument is invalid.
|
|
|
nineisnoone
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 902
The Laughing Magician
|
 |
« Reply #179 on: September 22, 2010, 08:01:05 pm » |
|
I kinda see the direction of a Poison deck, but I'm not sure if there is enough cards that can support it.
That said I think the core of any deck would involve Steady Progress and Tainted Strike. Steady Progress seems like the best proliferate card (instant, castable, and cycles). Tainted is the best infect card since it can work on any creature.
With Gush coming back, I could see this fitting into a GAT deck. Perhaps that just trying to be cute, but I don't really think a straight-aggro-creatures-with-infect would be better than a Zoo deck and a GAT deck might be better. Maybe running the combo as part of a Cunning Wish package or something.
|
|
|
Logged
|
I laugh a great deal because I like to laugh, but everything I say is deadly serious.
|
|
|
|