[Free Article] VINTAGE DECK EXPLOSION!!!!

[voltron00x]

This week's article is... VINTAGE DECK EXPLOSION! 

Check it out, here:  http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/20250_The_Long_and_Winding_Road_Vintage_Deck_Explosion.html

6,000 words including 10 decks pulled from the best minds in Vintage.

Enjoy in moderation to avoid Vintage player brain explosion.

[Sextiger]

I will probably add more comments as I dissect the decks but from looking at the Sun Titan list, if your gonna remove Maze of Ith/Life from the Loam, I question whether it is still good to use those 2 intuition.  Intuition piles with Loam seem to be one of the main reasons to use Intuition in the first place. 

[Bibendum]

Great read as always!

[voltron00x]

I will probably add more comments as I dissect the decks but from looking at the Sun Titan list, if your gonna remove Maze of Ith/Life from the Loam, I question whether it is still good to use those 2 intuition.  Intuition piles with Loam seem to be one of the main reasons to use Intuition in the first place. 

Interestingly, I thought the same thing, but in hindsight (at least based on my actual testing with the deck) that opinion is wrong.  Intuition is terrific in this deck.  Besides the obvious applications (find 3x Orchard, 3x Oath, 3x Dtutor / Mystical / Vamp -> Will, 3x Force, etc), it lets you win on the spot with Sun Titan (example:  Key / Vault / Regrowth).  As a set-up card for Titan at 3 mana, it is one of the more important pieces of the deck.

[Tha Gunslinga]

so a deck like ANT can kill you before you get a turn

That's why I wedged 4 Leyline of Sanctity into the SB of Joe's list.  They wreck Oath and ANT.

Also, I noticed you mentioned Horizon Canopy, but it wasn't in the deck.  Have you been running it?  How has it been?

[voltron00x]

so a deck like ANT can kill you before you get a turn

That's why I wedged 4 Leyline of Sanctity into the SB of Joe's list.  They wreck Oath and ANT.

Also, I noticed you mentioned Horizon Canopy, but it wasn't in the deck.  Have you been running it?  How has it been?

So far, I like it.  Chris Pikula's idea.  I think if I were to play today I'd have 2 Bomb, 3 Crucible (kind of need it vs other Shops) with at least one Canopy.

[Cunningbeaver]

"Thus far, this is the most “broken” of the Gush decks I've seen in terms of skewing toward raw power. It uses the combination of Fastbond, Gush, and Lotus Cobra to do really broken things, usually involving Yawgmoth's Will and the storm mechanic. The use of Jace with Gush lets you power into some insane turns, even if the overall casting cost in this deck is relatively high.

In one game against this deck on 10/2, my opponent had the following sequence of plays on turn 1:

Black Lotus, sacrifice to add GGG, play Lotus Cobra, play Fastbond, play Polluted Delta (add B to pool), fetch for Underground Seas (add B to pool), tap Underground Sea (BBB in pool), play Dark Ritual (BBBBB in pool), play Demonic Tutor, play Necropotence. Draw a new hand and pass turn."

I'm not sure who did this to you but a Demonic Tutor for Will ends the game.   Will with no mana floating replay fetch land add black crack add black BB floating, replay lotus cracked for black
BBBBB floating recast ritual BBBBBBB floating DT for tendrils win.

[Stormanimagus]

so a deck like ANT can kill you before you get a turn

That's why I wedged 4 Leyline of Sanctity into the SB of Joe's list.  They wreck Oath and ANT.

4 Copies Of Chain of Vapor beg to differ with this statement.

[Cyberpunker]

nice

[BruiZar]

Edit, nm

[Killane]

I like these kind of articles. With 2 kids, 2 jobs plus volunteer work and sitting on the Board of Directors of my local theatre compnay, I don't have much time for deck building. This is a good bunch of lists.

Now I need to go order 4 Lotus Cobras. Excuse me....

[voltron00x]

"Thus far, this is the most “broken” of the Gush decks I've seen in terms of skewing toward raw power. It uses the combination of Fastbond, Gush, and Lotus Cobra to do really broken things, usually involving Yawgmoth's Will and the storm mechanic. The use of Jace with Gush lets you power into some insane turns, even if the overall casting cost in this deck is relatively high.

In one game against this deck on 10/2, my opponent had the following sequence of plays on turn 1:

Black Lotus, sacrifice to add GGG, play Lotus Cobra, play Fastbond, play Polluted Delta (add B to pool), fetch for Underground Seas (add B to pool), tap Underground Sea (BBB in pool), play Dark Ritual (BBBBB in pool), play Demonic Tutor, play Necropotence. Draw a new hand and pass turn."

I'm not sure who did this to you but a Demonic Tutor for Will ends the game.   Will with no mana floating replay fetch land add black crack add black BB floating, replay lotus cracked for black
BBBBB floating recast ritual BBBBBBB floating DT for tendrils win.

I didn't say that it was the optimal sequence of plays, just that it is what my opponent did on turn one  

EDIT:  Beaver, just an FYI, I posted the deck name as NEPA Cobra Gush because that sums up its parts.  They named it NEPA Cobra Rush instead.  Cobra Rush is actually kind of a cool name, if you ask me.  Anyway, just in case you're curious what happened there.

[Qube]

"Thus far, this is the most “broken” of the Gush decks I've seen in terms of skewing toward raw power. It uses the combination of Fastbond, Gush, and Lotus Cobra to do really broken things, usually involving Yawgmoth's Will and the storm mechanic. The use of Jace with Gush lets you power into some insane turns, even if the overall casting cost in this deck is relatively high.

In one game against this deck on 10/2, my opponent had the following sequence of plays on turn 1:

Black Lotus, sacrifice to add GGG, play Lotus Cobra, play Fastbond, play Polluted Delta (add B to pool), fetch for Underground Seas (add B to pool), tap Underground Sea (BBB in pool), play Dark Ritual (BBBBB in pool), play Demonic Tutor, play Necropotence. Draw a new hand and pass turn."

I'm not sure who did this to you but a Demonic Tutor for Will ends the game.   Will with no mana floating replay fetch land add black crack add black BB floating, replay lotus cracked for black
BBBBB floating recast ritual BBBBBBB floating DT for tendrils win.

I didn't say that it was the optimal sequence of plays, just that it is what my opponent did on turn one 

Which isn't bad at all 

[Daenyth]

Thanks for the article! It was a really good read and the lists are very interesting

[Cunningbeaver]

"Thus far, this is the most “broken” of the Gush decks I've seen in terms of skewing toward raw power. It uses the combination of Fastbond, Gush, and Lotus Cobra to do really broken things, usually involving Yawgmoth's Will and the storm mechanic. The use of Jace with Gush lets you power into some insane turns, even if the overall casting cost in this deck is relatively high.

In one game against this deck on 10/2, my opponent had the following sequence of plays on turn 1:

Black Lotus, sacrifice to add GGG, play Lotus Cobra, play Fastbond, play Polluted Delta (add B to pool), fetch for Underground Seas (add B to pool), tap Underground Sea (BBB in pool), play Dark Ritual (BBBBB in pool), play Demonic Tutor, play Necropotence. Draw a new hand and pass turn."

I'm not sure who did this to you but a Demonic Tutor for Will ends the game.   Will with no mana floating replay fetch land add black crack add black BB floating, replay lotus cracked for black
BBBBB floating recast ritual BBBBBBB floating DT for tendrils win.

I didn't say that it was the optimal sequence of plays, just that it is what my opponent did on turn one 

I just like giving him a hard time.  Reading your stuff is always insightful and always worth at least one chuckle due to some anecdotes.

I think what I like most is how you show there are more than a "few" decks that could be/are considered viable. Keep up the good work!

[V is for Vintage]

"Thus far, this is the most “broken” of the Gush decks I've seen in terms of skewing toward raw power. It uses the combination of Fastbond, Gush, and Lotus Cobra to do really broken things, usually involving Yawgmoth's Will and the storm mechanic. The use of Jace with Gush lets you power into some insane turns, even if the overall casting cost in this deck is relatively high.

In one game against this deck on 10/2, my opponent had the following sequence of plays on turn 1:

Black Lotus, sacrifice to add GGG, play Lotus Cobra, play Fastbond, play Polluted Delta (add B to pool), fetch for Underground Seas (add B to pool), tap Underground Sea (BBB in pool), play Dark Ritual (BBBBB in pool), play Demonic Tutor, play Necropotence. Draw a new hand and pass turn."

I'm not sure who did this to you but a Demonic Tutor for Will ends the game.   Will with no mana floating replay fetch land add black crack add black BB floating, replay lotus cracked for black
BBBBB floating recast ritual BBBBBBB floating DT for tendrils win.

I didn't say that it was the optimal sequence of plays, just that it is what my opponent did on turn one  

EDIT:  Beaver, just an FYI, I posted the deck name as NEPA Cobra Gush because that sums up its parts.  They named it NEPA Cobra Rush instead.  Cobra Rush is actually kind of a cool name, if you ask me.  Anyway, just in case you're curious what happened there.

.....yeah, didn't see that play. I suck at Magic

My first loss in the day was against Dave playing shops, 1-2

I wouldn't underestimate this deck against shops though. it might be an uphill battle, but resolving a cobra nets a huge advantage. I ran my version with tinker/bot main, and that helped against shops as well.

Despite the fact that I'm a horrible Magic player (apparently), I stick by the statement that if Beaver and I hadn't had to play the win-and-in, you'd see all 3 Nepa cobra gushes in that top 8 list

[honestabe]

Another week, another sweet article.

However, no love for Brassman, or was your article written before his was released?

[voltron00x]

Another week, another sweet article.

However, no love for Brassman, or was your article written before his was released?

Of course I love Brassman, why?

[honestabe]

Another week, another sweet article.

However, no love for Brassman, or was your article written before his was released?

Of course I love Brassman, why?

No mention of his Riddlesmith list, which is putting up strong results at the weekly vintage scene here in new england.  Do you not think its any good, or was this article written before his ws released?  Sorry I wasnt clearer with my original post.

[voltron00x]

Ah, well, a few reasons.  I chose mostly decks that I've played, or have had a prominent finish in recent months.  The Riddlesmith deck is still very new and hasn't had a breakout performance yet (that I know of), and it's Brassman's deck and he writes for SCG now, so I didn't want to step on his toes. 

[waikiki]

Nice article matt, I love seeing deed hitting vintage

[Qube]

Can Brassman's list be viewed anywhere or just in his article? (which hopefully will include this list)

[ReubenG]

Great article.  I really helped someone like myself who didn't play back when gush was around to get an idea of how those decks might look.  Looks like I need to add Lotus Cobra's to my list of needed cards.

[Hagrid]

Great article Matt as always a fine read thanks for the insight.

[Juggernaut GO]

I'll be really interested to see how much new shit comes out this weekend.  This tournament seems like it's going to be the one to set the meta for quite some time.

[pierce]

I like the lists for the most part, especially that you are on the 0 null run 4 vial plan for fish decks now as well (my 8th place at Ann Arbor is hardly noteworthy, but seeing as I lost to runner-runner in both g2 and g3 in t8, and that my t4 matchup would have been very good--Smemmen repeatedly pointed out in my t8 match that he wanted Yang to win as he didn't want to play vs my brew--and the finals would have been vs a guy who played silence maindeck; meaning my finish damn well could have been.) I don't see null rod as playable anymore. I'm glad you're on the same page.

I was curious about the following two card choices in different decks: 1) rachet bomb over powder keg in workshop variants--isn't keg better due to being more synergystic with tangle wire?  and 2) having 5 sb cards for dredge in your ad nas list (3 jailer, 1 tormods, 1 needle). Shouldn't that number be closer to 0? Dredge is a great matchup for ad nas, as the ritual deck is at least a full turn faster on average, and the match is hardly interactive--very much a race. You just slow yourself down with these hate cards, even though the dredge player most likely has added several anti-hate cards after board, effectively slowing him down at least a turn or two. Shouldn't a good anti-dredge board just answer the only interactive cards in chalice @0 and Unmask/cabal therapy?

[voltron00x]

I like the lists for the most part, especially that you are on the 0 null run 4 vial plan for fish decks now as well (my 8th place at Ann Arbor is hardly noteworthy, but seeing as I lost to runner-runner in both g2 and g3 in t8, and that my t4 matchup would have been very good--Smemmen repeatedly pointed out in my t8 match that he wanted Yang to win as he didn't want to play vs my brew--and the finals would have been vs a guy who played silence maindeck; meaning my finish damn well could have been.) I don't see null rod as playable anymore. I'm glad you're on the same page.

I was curious about the following two card choices in different decks: 1) rachet bomb over powder keg in workshop variants--isn't keg better due to being more synergystic with tangle wire?  and 2) having 5 sb cards for dredge in your ad nas list (3 jailer, 1 tormods, 1 needle). Shouldn't that number be closer to 0? Dredge is a great matchup for ad nas, as the ritual deck is at least a full turn faster on average, and the match is hardly interactive--very much a race. You just slow yourself down with these hate cards, even though the dredge player most likely has added several anti-hate cards after board, effectively slowing him down at least a turn or two. Shouldn't a good anti-dredge board just answer the only interactive cards in chalice @0 and Unmask/cabal therapy?

1 - Bomb blows up Oath of Druids.  That's a huge, huge deal.

2 - Leyline of Sanctity changes things somewhat, IMO.  I think you need to acknowledge Dredge is a deck b/c that Leyline exists.  If no one is playing it where you are, then perhaps it's fine to ignore Dredge, but builds that throw out Leyline T0 + chalice 0 T1 are capable of racing (although its still a bad match-up on the Dredge side).

[pierce]

Ok, but how does a pithing needle or yixlid jailer answer leyline? The same exact problem persists.
I was thinking that chain of vapor/echoing truth belongs in the sb to answer chalice in the matchup, seems fine vs leyline too.

The bomb makes perfect sense now.

[minusblindfold]

I think his plan is to play ball instead of ignoring them. i think either strategy is fine. I can see the argument that the bounce spell might not slow you down as much as the hate, but i think its nice to have some silver bullets sometimes too.

[Guli]

First I would like to say that I love the fact that a Vial list is incorporated in the article. Second, I find it odd that their is no Null Rod based fish variant. In the article null rod is mentioned as a problematic card for some decks. At least one up to date null rod list should have been included.

I want to make a comment about the vial list. The writer states that it isn't battle tested and should most likely not be played. I find this disappointing as an experiences vial user. The deck indeed looks rough and quickly designed. And I am not sure that bant is the right color configuration right now. That being said, it is great that some direction and space is given to this archetype.

The best 1 drop that can be vialed in right now is Gorilla Shaman. The best 2 drop to follow that up is Leonin arbiter. The extra mana you get in between should be used to strip/waste/quarter and thoughtseize/duress them while you get to vial@2. Kataki is also powerfull with vial, Arbiter and the strip effects to further squeeze their throat. Your draw engine should be Dark confidant. I strongly advice to use   . What also might be possible is to use  and go for cursecatcher instead of gorilla shaman.

Peace,

Guli