brokenbacon
Basic User
Posts: 354
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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« on: January 18, 2011, 06:01:14 pm » |
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Hey guys,
With the printing of Blightsteel Colossus, it looks like it's time to make Oath a combo deck. I feel that this thing can guarantee winning within one turn of Oathing, with Emrakul and Blightsteel operating in tandem.
4 Oath of Druids
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Dragon Breath
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Jace 2.0
4 Force of Will
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Mana Drain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Intuition
1 Time Walk
1 Nature's Claim
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
5 Mox
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
Discuss!
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« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 09:50:07 pm by brokenbacon »
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Charlie
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 07:14:36 pm » |
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Seems like this could be benefited by at least two copies of Dragon Breath.
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brokenbacon
Basic User
Posts: 354
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 07:24:17 pm » |
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Ah yes of course! Dragon Breath. What a winner.
EDIT: Actually, through testing I think Iona is not necessarily a good choice. This deck wants to win right away and leave no windows open. We just Oath a fattie and Dragon Breath it to win on the spot. Therefore I think changing to -1 Iona +1 Island is a good idea.
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« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 07:53:40 pm by brokenbacon »
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Killane
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I am become Death, the destroyer of Worlds
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 10:45:26 am » |
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I still think that Dragon's Breath has no place in Oath. It's too much of a dead card, and there will be a non-marginal number of times that both are still in the Library after Oath, in which case it becomes completely useless. I'd rather use those slots to protect Emmy/BSC for the 1 turn, and then win next turn. I think Sun Titan is a better option for Combo oath for this reason. BSC belongs in a dedicated Tinker deck.
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meadbert
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 11:17:03 am » |
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I still think that Dragon's Breath has no place in Oath. It's too much of a dead card, and there will be a non-marginal number of times that both are still in the Library after Oath, in which case it becomes completely useless. I'd rather use those slots to protect Emmy/BSC for the 1 turn, and then win next turn. I think Sun Titan is a better option for Combo oath for this reason. BSC belongs in a dedicated Tinker deck.
So a huge advantage of BSC over Emrakul is that you can hardcast Dragon Breath thus negating the impact of having it in your hand. Basically Dragon Breath in hand turns into Time Walk once you Oath. |
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Delha
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 12:42:49 pm » |
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So a huge advantage of BSC over Emrakul is that you can hardcast Dragon Breath thus negating the impact of having it in your hand.
Basically Dragon Breath in hand turns into Time Walk once you Oath. Are you sure you'd call that a HUGE advantage though? I'd happily trade that for the fact that Emrakul is immune to Hurkyl's/Chain/Swords/etc while also wrapping up the game much more concretely upon swing. Having 6 permanents to spare is highly unlikely, but having 3 toughness of creatures to spare is much more feasible. |
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself. |
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brokenbacon
Basic User
Posts: 354
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 01:10:04 pm » |
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Yeah I see the argument for that - however I have been testing extensively and this thing is NUTTY. Like, guaranteed turn 3 win, most of the time. I feel like Dragon Breath actually guarantees that you win that turn. It's funny, when you see Dragon Breath it's like you scoop and play again. It's guaranteed. 2 Dragon Breath is necessary to the deck, imo. Also I have tested -1 Hurks +1 TFK, we'll see how that goes. Later I'll post a list after more testing.
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Delha
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 01:27:18 pm » |
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Yeah I see the argument for that - however I have been testing extensively and this thing is NUTTY. Like, guaranteed turn 3 win, most of the time. I feel like Dragon Breath actually guarantees that you win that turn. It's funny, when you see Dragon Breath it's like you scoop and play again. It's guaranteed. 2 Dragon Breath is necessary to the deck, imo. Also I have tested -1 Hurks +1 TFK, we'll see how that goes. Later I'll post a list after more testing. That's an unrealistic claim. NO Oath deck always has Oath, much less Oath AND Orchard. I'd go so far as to say you won't even have them assembled "most of the time" on turn 2, which is obviously necessary for a turn 3 kill. That's the whole reason Jace and Vault/Key got included in the deck; they allow for alternate paths to victory should you be cut off from Oath (be it by hate or luck of the draw). "Guaranteed" is also excessive. It's been mentioned repeatedly that pretty much all bot hate works against BSC. Hurkyl's, Swords, Edict, Chain, etc... Even traditional MUD hate in the form of Duplicant works, so long as they can chump with a Golem first. You suggest running 2 copies of Breath, which means you have a 50% chance of whiffing on it and hitting a creature without breath. I'd argue that's pretty far from most people's definition of "guaranteed". Don't get me wrong, I like BSC. I just think that your assessment is a bit overblown. |
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself. |
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meadbert
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 02:35:57 pm » |
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So a huge advantage of BSC over Emrakul is that you can hardcast Dragon Breath thus negating the impact of having it in your hand.
Basically Dragon Breath in hand turns into Time Walk once you Oath. Are you sure you'd call that a HUGE advantage though? I'd happily trade that for the fact that Emrakul is immune to Hurkyl's/Chain/Swords/etc while also wrapping up the game much more concretely upon swing. Having 6 permanents to spare is highly unlikely, but having 3 toughness of creatures to spare is much more feasible. Jace is a key factor here. You do not want to pass the turn with Emrakul if Jace is out. Regarding 3 toughness creatures. If you have Dragon Breath out you can simply pay  to get through those. Red is doable off Orchard and even current Oath decks run Volcanic sometimes for sideboard cards. A 5 color mana base is always an option too. |
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« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 02:58:00 pm by meadbert »
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brokenbacon
Basic User
Posts: 354
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 03:19:42 pm » |
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Yeah I see the argument for that - however I have been testing extensively and this thing is NUTTY. Like, guaranteed turn 3 win, most of the time. I feel like Dragon Breath actually guarantees that you win that turn. It's funny, when you see Dragon Breath it's like you scoop and play again. It's guaranteed. 2 Dragon Breath is necessary to the deck, imo. Also I have tested -1 Hurks +1 TFK, we'll see how that goes. Later I'll post a list after more testing. That's an unrealistic claim. NO Oath deck always has Oath, much less Oath AND Orchard. I'd go so far as to say you won't even have them assembled "most of the time" on turn 2, which is obviously necessary for a turn 3 kill. That's the whole reason Jace and Vault/Key got included in the deck; they allow for alternate paths to victory should you be cut off from Oath (be it by hate or luck of the draw). "Guaranteed" is also excessive. It's been mentioned repeatedly that pretty much all bot hate works against BSC. Hurkyl's, Swords, Edict, Chain, etc... Even traditional MUD hate in the form of Duplicant works, so long as they can chump with a Golem first. You suggest running 2 copies of Breath, which means you have a 50% chance of whiffing on it and hitting a creature without breath. I'd argue that's pretty far from most people's definition of "guaranteed". Don't get me wrong, I like BSC. I just think that your assessment is a bit overblown. Yeah you're correct. I guess what I meant was that if you have the god hand then you def win vs. Shops, Oath, Tez, whatever turn 3. But that doesn't always happen. My b. |
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Adan
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 04:16:48 pm » |
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The problem of Oath is, that it's Oath. No matter what kind of Oath you play, you always have many cards that are redundant in multiples. Although I will try it some day for the sake of playing real Vintage-Magic, I don't like it very much.
There have been a couple of Emrakul-Oaths out there with maindeck Dragon Breath as well as Show and Tell if I recall correctly and I have never seen one of them Top8ing anywhere.
And well, Dragon Breath is just good when you already have Oath active, but otherwise it's another dead card that will very probably clog up your hand as you draw it.
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brokenbacon
Basic User
Posts: 354
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 04:36:15 pm » |
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@Adan - Very true. Hopefully this doesn't end up in the same basket as Spaghetti Oath  Here's the list I've been goldfishing on MWS. Lands 4 Misty Rainforest 2 Polluted Delta 2 Underground Sea 2 Tropical Island 1 Volcanic Island 4 Forbidden Orchard 2 Island 1 Tolarian Academy Creatures 1 Blightsteel Colossus 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Spells 4 Force of Will 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor 1 Time Walk 1 Brainstorm 1 Ancestral Recall 2 Mana Drain 1 Time Vault 1 Voltaic Key 2 Thoughtseize 1 Mox Ruby 1 Tinker 1 Mana Crypt 1 Sol Ring 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Jet 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Mox Emerald 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Demonic Tutor 4 Oath of Druids 1 Black Lotus 1 Ponder 1 Nature's Claim 2 Preordain 2 Dragon Breath 1 Intuition 1 Gifts Ungiven 1x Intuition might be a mistake. Thoughts? |
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Fuck your horse and the couch you rode in on
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 04:59:16 pm » |
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@Adan - Very true. Hopefully this doesn't end up in the same basket as Spaghetti Oath Here's the list I've been goldfishing on MWS. Lands 4 Misty Rainforest 2 Polluted Delta 2 Underground Sea 2 Tropical Island 1 Volcanic Island 4 Forbidden Orchard 2 Island 1 Tolarian Academy Creatures 1 Blightsteel Colossus 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Spells 4 Force of Will 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor 1 Time Walk 1 Brainstorm 1 Ancestral Recall 2 Mana Drain 1 Time Vault 1 Voltaic Key 2 Thoughtseize 1 Mox Ruby 1 Tinker 1 Mana Crypt 1 Sol Ring 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Jet 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Mox Emerald 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Demonic Tutor 4 Oath of Druids 1 Black Lotus 1 Ponder 1 Nature's Claim 2 Preordain 2 Dragon Breath 1 Intuition 1 Gifts Ungiven 1x Intuition might be a mistake. Thoughts? Interesting list actually. I might go with -2 Mana Drain and -2 Thoughtseize for +4 Spell Pierce though. You really want to have turn 1 disruption when playing Oath and Spell Pierce just owns in a lot of situations, especially in resolving Oath. Intuition might be decent but I agree that it is difficult to say. I'll have to get back to you, but I'm not 100% sold on the creature combo. I think that Iona should at least be in the SB for the Storm match-up. Emrakul would come out there as it has issues finishing the game against Storm at times even with a swing. There are many ways that a competent TPS pilot can win with 0 permanents on the board and a little bit of luck. I'll start tinkering with a list, but I'm pretty sure the Spell Pierce is a great call for Oath in general and helps ensure an early Oath resolution. -Storm |
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brokenbacon
Basic User
Posts: 354
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 05:34:36 pm » |
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I'll try Spell Pierce as well, good call. Intuition feels right at times, not always though.
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TEAM TOP DECK INSURRECTION-luck draws...fukin luck draws
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Delha
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 06:15:01 pm » |
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I'll try Spell Pierce as well, good call. Intuition feels right at times, not always though. Just a suggestion... whenever you Oath, take a look at the game state before you start flipping and ask yourself which fattie is better for you. I don't know what your testing meta has been like, but with storm combo less popular, and MUD riding high, I figured the situations where BSC is better tend to crop up less often. |
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself. |
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voltron00x
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2011, 06:55:57 pm » |
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Maybe something like this?
4 Oath of Druids
1 Colossus
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Time Walk
1 Nature's Claim
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Island
2 Dragon Breath
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
2 Preordain
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Nature's Claim
SB: 2 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 1 Mana Crypt
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« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 08:04:39 pm by voltron00x »
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“Win as if you were used to it, lose as if you enjoyed it for a change.”
Team East Coast Wins
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2011, 07:30:34 pm » |
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Maybe something like this?
4 Oath of Druids
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Time Walk
1 Nature's Claim
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Island
2 Dragon Breath
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
2 Preordain
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Nature's Claim
SB: 2 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 1 Mana Crypt
Sphinx makes very little sense in a build with Dragon Breath. You are trying to win on the first Oath with haste regardless of which creature you flip. BSC is gonna win now off a Dragon Breath far more often than Sphinx. That's why these Dragon Breath lists are popping up again. Now you have a bot (Tinkerable) that can serve as Oath Creature number 2 in case you have the other in hand and still want to be able to "win now." Here's why I think the combo of BSC and Emrakul can work as a game 1-3 plan vs. Shops and a game 1 plan vs. the field changing to Iona games 2 and 3 often: If you have one in hand the other one should often win now when oathed up and hitting a dragon breath. Consider an average game-state: your opponent has double Confidant at best if they are Jace-Control (sometimes more but often not). You have Emrakul in hand and BSC in your deck. You oath up the Bot and attach a dragon breath to it. You have 1 Red producing mana source so you make him a 12/11 trampler. -2 of that is spent killing confidants and 10 goes to the face for 10 poison counters. GG. Or. . . The reverse. Now your opponent has double confidant but you have Emrakul with 1 red source. You are going to deal 16 damage to an empty board. Very few Control decks can recover from this in 1 turn. The only danger in that case becomes combo as they might be able to recover. I suppose testing will have to inform me on this one, but I think Iona out of the SB could help that a lot. Bottom line is that this dude is great in Oath decks that need to Oath in order to win consistently. Sure TV/Key is nice to include, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Oath is a TV/Key deck primarily because it isn't. It is an Oath deck. If we can find a way to win (or create an unbeatable board state) the turn we Oath then we are living the dream and I really think that this creature config allows for that dream to be lived more often. But, as always, testing must be the judge. -Storm |
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
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voltron00x
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2011, 08:04:12 pm » |
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Sorry, its not Sphinx, its Colossus; Colossus is not yet available in Cockatrice so that was a proxy. EDIT: That was a long post over a relatively obvious typo, man  |
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2011, 08:06:34 pm » |
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Sorry, its not Sphinx, its Colossus; Colossus is not yet available in Cockatrice so that was a proxy. EDIT: That was a long post over a relatively obvious typo, man True. Sorry bout that. But, it did allow me to explain why this creature setup could be quite good. |
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
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Phele
Basic User
Posts: 562
Tom Bombadil
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2011, 01:04:05 am » |
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Maybe something like this?
4 Oath of Druids
1 Colossus
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Time Walk
1 Nature's Claim
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Island
2 Dragon Breath
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
2 Preordain
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Nature's Claim
SB: 2 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 1 Mana Crypt
Very good first approach. One turn quicker than old Angel Oath with the addition that you can Tinker one of your dudes and that you can easily play Vault-Key as an alternative kill. Only things to think about after my first look on it: - Arent four 4cc-spells a bit too much without Drains and Crypt in the main? - Couldn't Lotus Petal be a nice addition somewhere? With Colossus you probably wan't red mana quite often, to let it get its lethal strike over a couple of Orchard tokens. And it allows quicker Oathes and quicker Oathes with counter backup, wich serves the combo appeal of this Oath approach - Is Lim Duls Vault still powerfull enough? - What about Merchant Scroll? Yes, playing no bounce is reasonable, but searching Anc/Brainstorm or FoW still seems very powerful - What about Thirst for Knowledge? Could be a smooth way to get rid of the creatures and Breathes in your hand and to put them exactly where they should be: In the lib or in the grave. It is an Instant and it costs one less than Jace, so it might be an option. And at least, but this is probably just an unimportant side step, it leaves you at least with one additional way to recure your graveyard, by discarding Emrakul (Thoughtseizes on yourself serves for that case as well) |
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 02:48:33 am by Phele »
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voltron00x
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2011, 08:03:08 am » |
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I was playing this last night after some testing; the version with 0 Drain goes -2 Drain, +1 Preordain, +1 Thoughtseize. I haven't tested Drains yet but I did miss them last night.
4 Oath of Druids
1 Bsc
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Time Walk
1 Nature's Claim
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Thoughtseize
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Dragon Breath
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Island
1 Regrowth
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Mana Drain
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Nature's Claim
SB: 2 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Lightning Bolt
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 08:21:07 am by voltron00x »
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“Win as if you were used to it, lose as if you enjoyed it for a change.”
Team East Coast Wins
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2011, 08:05:55 am » |
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What were you testing against that made you miss them?
Peace,
-Troy
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voltron00x
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2011, 08:22:52 am » |
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Gush and shops
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“Win as if you were used to it, lose as if you enjoyed it for a change.”
Team East Coast Wins
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Commandant
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2011, 10:46:34 am » |
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I still don't get why people are running <4 Preordain; have you cast this card?
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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2011, 01:16:27 pm » |
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I still don't get why people are running <4 Preordain; have you cast this card?
SHHHHH!!!! We're not talking about that! lol |
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Cruel Ultimatum
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2011, 01:32:05 pm » |
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So the point of oathing up BSC and Emrakul is so that you win next turn? Couldn't we already have that option with 2x hellkite overlord and have the added bonus of not getting boned by hurklys recall and rebuild (for bsc)
EDIT: didn't see the dragons breath in the latter lists
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« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 01:39:59 pm by Cruel Ultimatum »
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Egan
ECW
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Delha
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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2011, 01:35:41 pm » |
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So the point of oathing up BSC and Emrakul is so that you win next turn? Couldn't we already have that option with 2x hellkite overlord and have the added bonus of not getting boned by hurklys recall and rebuild (for bsc) The point of this list is swinging for lethal on your first Oath activation. That's why there's Dragon Breath included. |
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself. |
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Mr. Type 4
Creator of Type 4
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Creator of Type 4 - Discoverer of Steve Menendian
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2011, 03:42:15 pm » |
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Dragon's breath is better than i thought just because its feasible to hardcast it, so drawing copies of it isn't as bad as you'd think. Still, there's a frustrating and nontrivial chance of not hitting Dragon's breath even when you roll through a lot of cards. It actually happens a lot, and because of that I'm pretty sure DB isn't worth it. I'd rather just have a mana drain.
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2008 VINTAGE CHAMPION 2013 NYSE OPEN I CHAMPION Team Meandeck Mastriano's the only person I know who can pick up chicks and win magic tournaments at the same time.
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Elric
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2011, 05:05:17 pm » |
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Dragon's breath is better than i thought just because its feasible to hardcast it, so drawing copies of it isn't as bad as you'd think. Still, there's a frustrating and nontrivial chance of not hitting Dragon's breath even when you roll through a lot of cards. It actually happens a lot, and because of that I'm pretty sure DB isn't worth it. I'd rather just have a mana drain.
Indeed, if you have 2 creatures and 2 Dragon's Breaths, you have a 50% chance of revealing a creature before a Dragon Breath. |
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meadbert
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2011, 05:15:31 pm » |
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So I have more experience with Dragon Breath than I should. I guess I liked it in Dredge back in the day and so I have thrown into Oath fairly frequently.
Here are a few comments:
1) Enlightened Tutor gets better because you can ET on upkeep for Dragon Breath thus ensuring it is in your yard when you Oath. ET also Finds Oath or Key/Vault or (if you run Show And Tell) a fattie!
2) Intuition gets better if you have 2xDragon Breath. Basically you can Intuition for 2 and one goes to the yard.
3) If you run 2 Oath targets then to reliably get Dragon Breath you need to run close to 4. Maybe 1 Oath target is best but that makes you vulnerable to all sorts of stuff.
4) If you run 2 targets and 3-4 Breath or even just 2 Breath and 1 target you really want Brainstorm abilities. These include Brainstorm, Jace and Scroll Rack.
5) Regarding Emrakul/BSC lists: A huge advantage of Terastodon is that it removes Ensnaring Bridge. Without Terastodon I would prefer running just 1 BSC and then maybe Krosan Rec and Yawg to deal with Ensnaring Bridge.
Something I have not tried yet is running Scroll Rack with Gush. I doubt it is type 1 viable, but I may explore that.
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T1: Arsenal
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