Rumors/Previews/mtg.com articles 2010 - 2013

[Ten-Ten]

 

I swear .... the moment anyone plays those shitty cards against me double-sleeved and starts to unsleeve-flip-resleeve ... god .... save ... their ... soul

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Hope the Judge is faster dq'ing them for stalling than me jumping over the table...

I LOL'd so hard 

I see that they have these checklist cards, but they seem incredibly unhelpful and lame, basically a glorified proxy.

Hmm, ya'll thinkin' what me's thinkin'?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I see that they have these checklist cards, but they seem incredibly unhelpful and lame, basically a glorified proxy.

if only they made these with power, shop, time vault, bazaar instead.....

[Norm4eva]

Transforming cards sounds entirely awesome and totally shitty all at once.  Flip cards not good enough?  Morph cards not bomb enough?  Lightspeed too slow?

I'm sad that "Fight" is a mechanic, simply because I will probably have to break the habit of shorthanding the combat phase as turning my guys sideways and going "Fight you."  Some Dexter is going to say "Uhhh umm actually ah, you can't ah, you can't strictly speaking 'fight' me, as ah... as none of your creatures have the 'fight' keyword and I am not, as it stands, a creature per se.  Glavin."

[Ten-Ten]

I see that they have these checklist cards, but they seem incredibly unhelpful and lame, basically a glorified proxy.

if only they made these with power, shop, time vault, bazaar instead.....

Bingo.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Transforming cards sounds entirely awesome and totally shitty all at once.  Flip cards not good enough?  Morph cards not bomb enough?  Lightspeed too slow?

I'm sad that "Fight" is a mechanic, simply because I will probably have to break the habit of shorthanding the combat phase as turning my guys sideways and going "Fight you."  Some Dexter is going to say "Uhhh umm actually ah, you can't ah, you can't strictly speaking 'fight' me, as ah... as none of your creatures have the 'fight' keyword and I am not, as it stands, a creature per se.  Glavin."

the flip cards just seem like there are a number of logistical problems, and none of those problems have any GOOD solutions to them. At least not of the solutions in use. and if light speed is to slow, convert yourself to tachyon! and if you dont dig that... there is that whole space time expation 1 force enternal darkness speed thing.

[Troy_Costisick]

Eh, this is all one of MaRo's stupid ideas.  He's had a hard-on for doing something with the back of magic cards for years.  Morph was his first stab at it, and a complete screw-up in my oppinion since it doesn't use the stack.  Anyway, for me, it's nothing but more MaRo shenanigans.  I'm not impressed.

[ReubenG]

I am just amazed how bad these double faced cards are.  I understand the desire to have the creature change and therefore have differnt art to represent it, but that could have been done with a token.  Can you imagine the wear and tear on a high dollar chase mythic such as the new Garruk having to be pulled in and out of a sleeve repeatedly...oh but you have this handy card you can write on to take place of the card in your deck.  Sounds a lot like a proxy to me. 

If it opens the door to WOTC printing and allowing proxies in sanctioned Vintage I am all for those consiquences of this crazy idea, but since I know that will never happen, then I just hate it. I didn't like level up, and this is way worse.

Also, how do you not let an opponent know you are playing with these when representing your deck and sideboard at the begining of a match?  Don't worry about that other stack of cards, those are just my zombie tokens..

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I am just amazed how bad these double faced cards are.  I understand the desire to have the creature change and therefore have differnt art to represent it, but that could have been done with a token.  Can you imagine the wear and tear on a high dollar chase mythic such as the new Garruk having to be pulled in and out of a sleeve repeatedly...oh but you have this handy card you can write on to take place of the card in your deck.  Sounds a lot like a proxy to me. 

If it opens the door to WOTC printing and allowing proxies in sanctioned Vintage I am all for those consiquences of this crazy idea, but since I know that will never happen, then I just hate it. I didn't like level up, and this is way worse.

Also, how do you not let an opponent know you are playing with these when representing your deck and sideboard at the begining of a match?  Don't worry about that other stack of cards, those are just my zombie tokens..

I could see it being an opening to using CE cards in sanctioned events.

[LotusHead]

To use the checklist card, set your double-faced card aside and make a mark on each checklist card next to the name of the double-faced card it represents. (Be sure to use a writing implement that won't be visible through the back of the checklist card, and to mark only one double-faced card name on each checklist card.)

You'll use the checklist card when the card is in your library, in your hand, or exiled face down, and the double-faced card when the card is on the stack, on the battlefield, in the graveyard, or exiled face up.

I actually now totally approve of these checklist cards, as I approve of anything ANYTHING to get "proxies" onto Wizards' good side someday.

[Prospero]

I am just amazed how bad these double faced cards are.  I understand the desire to have the creature change and therefore have differnt art to represent it, but that could have been done with a token.  Can you imagine the wear and tear on a high dollar chase mythic such as the new Garruk having to be pulled in and out of a sleeve repeatedly...oh but you have this handy card you can write on to take place of the card in your deck.  Sounds a lot like a proxy to me. 

If it opens the door to WOTC printing and allowing proxies in sanctioned Vintage I am all for those consiquences of this crazy idea, but since I know that will never happen, then I just hate it. I didn't like level up, and this is way worse.

Also, how do you not let an opponent know you are playing with these when representing your deck and sideboard at the begining of a match?  Don't worry about that other stack of cards, those are just my zombie tokens..

I could see it being an opening to using CE cards in sanctioned events.

I think that this is an exceptionally good (and important) point.

The biggest strike against CE and IE cards in the past has been that the backs of the cards have been different from regular Magic cards.  If we're going to complain about the borders - saying that the borders are different (squared instead of rounded) then how can we not come back to Alpha cards (which are not normal corners either) being legal in this format?  If cards that already have different backs from Beta-Current cards are legal, is it that much of a stretch to see cards with squared borders being legal?  You're already required to play Alpha cards in opaque sleeves - it's not as though this would be any different.

It wouldn't change anything with regards to the Reserve List - after all, WotC isn't actually printing new cards, they're just taking cards that are already in circulation and making them legal. 

It would affect the price of power, though I don't think it would cause power to drastically drop.  Would you prefer a CE Mox or an Unlimited one?  I'd still prefer the Unlimited one, I think, as it still feels 'real'. 

Very good point, I'd really like to see where this leads us...

[CorwinB]

I saw the set referred to as UNnistrad on MtGSalvation. Seems pretty appropriate for a mechanic that should have been kept to UN-sets. MaRo's article today on the design of double faced cards was the real horror story of the block, as far as I'm concerned...

[Yare]

Perhaps this new mechanic also opens the door to a change of the standard magic card back. I know they've wanted to change that roughly forever.

[DubDub]

Just saw this over on TheSource:

After seeing this mess cards like Chaos Orb and Shaharazard don't seem all that strange to me anymore.

Which is not a bad point.  Chaos Orb still requires dexterity, but Shaharazad is banned just for Organized Play issues.  Unsleeving, flipping, and resleeving 6-8 Werewolves potentially every turn seems like a worse time sink.  Especially if you're doing the flipping without losing the number of +1/+1 counters on each, checking that Equipments/Auras haven't fallen off, etc.  A ton of headspace and time/effort is required on the players' end for the marginal benefit of... two arts?

Also, with different conditions for transforming on different cards, isn't it possible that one player will have 'day' cards while the other has 'night' cards face up?  That seems really poorly thought out.

[maatn]

It does feel kinda comfortable to know that whenever something completely new and exciting is launched from Maro-HQ, TMD is the place where it gets burnt.

I must say, I don't like the flippin' double faced cards from what I know now. It does seem a more fitting mechanic for 'kitchen table'-fun times than a competitive setting. Also qft

MaRo's article today on the design of double faced cards was the real horror story of the block, as far as I'm concerned...

[AmbivalentDuck]

Unsleeving, flipping, and resleeving 6-8 Werewolves potentially every turn seems like a worse time sink.

I suspect that the strategy of choice will be to double-sleeve the cards.  Once the card is played, the opaque-backed outer sleeve is removed and the transparent inner sleeve can be flipped as quickly as bare cardboard.

I'm almost certain that's how my cube will handle it if Garruk Relentless is playable.  Alternatively, I'll just get two copies and leave one double-sleeved backside-visible in the token box.

[ReubenG]

Just saw this over on TheSource:

After seeing this mess cards like Chaos Orb and Shaharazard don't seem all that strange to me anymore.

Which is not a bad point.  Chaos Orb still requires dexterity, but Shaharazad is banned just for Organized Play issues.  Unsleeving, flipping, and resleeving 6-8 Werewolves potentially every turn seems like a worse time sink.  Especially if you're doing the flipping without losing the number of +1/+1 counters on each, checking that Equipments/Auras haven't fallen off, etc.  A ton of headspace and time/effort is required on the players' end for the marginal benefit of... two arts?

Also, with different conditions for transforming on different cards, isn't it possible that one player will have 'day' cards while the other has 'night' cards face up?  That seems really poorly thought out.

I agree the play logistics of this is a nightmare (which goes with the theme of the set).

I think the most trouble will be limited play, like at pre-releases.  Every booster is getting one of these cards, but not all are getting the checklist cards.  At pre-releases I see few people running opaque sleeves, but all will have these cards and some players won’t have the correct number of checklists.  Hopefully they send more checklists for pre-releases.

The other concern I could see happening, is someone checking off all of their checklist cards with the bomb double-faced card they pulled and/or inserting more checklists than double-faced cards to up your chances of access to one of them if your pull a limited bomb double-faced card.  Deckchecks rarely if ever happen around where I play, even in tournaments.  

[MaximumCDawg]

The biggest strike against CE and IE cards in the past has been that the backs of the cards have been different from regular Magic cards.  If we're going to complain about the borders - saying that the borders are different (squared instead of rounded) then how can we not come back to Alpha cards (which are not normal corners either) being legal in this format?  If cards that already have different backs from Beta-Current cards are legal, is it that much of a stretch to see cards with squared borders being legal?  You're already required to play Alpha cards in opaque sleeves - it's not as though this would be any different.

As the proud owner of a CE set I've never been able to use in constructed play, I'm all for this idea.

However, I think CE is the wrong analogy.  What WotC has now done is said it is acceptable to use a proxy to represent a card you actually have with you, but is off to the side and does not get involved in the game until you play the proxy.  What's the difference from having your power in sealed containers off to the side and playing with proxies to prevent wear and tear?  It's EXACTLY the same thing.  Especially since a non-negligible percentage of power in circulation is banged up enough that the backs are marked anyway.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I saw the set referred to as UNnistrad on MtGSalvation. Seems pretty appropriate for a mechanic that should have been kept to UN-sets. MaRo's article today on the design of double faced cards was the real horror story of the block, as far as I'm concerned...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI&feature=related

[Norm4eva]

I was hoping the rules blurb would talk a little about weird interactions with 'werewolf' cards and things like Illusionary Mask, but apparently not.  I want to know if I can cheat that 13/13 trample guy into play without meeting the dumb 'hatchling counter' requirements.

That proxy card thing is probably the only way I can stand to play those things and stay sane.  I'm not keen on opaque transparent sleeves, if only because they reveal information, and I definitely don't think I'm going to feel like resleeving a bitch every time it transforms.

I really hope this is one of those mechanics that only *looks* stupid, because it looks absolutely awful in terms of execution.  I appreciate everything about it as a creative endeavor but I really never want to have to play any of these goons.

edit - so that the words i use are actually the words i meant instead of the words i said

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I'm not keen on opaque sleeves, if only because they reveal information...

Not sure if you know the definition of opaque.

That being said, I am not a fan of these cards, and think something like the flip cards from kamigawa would have been a better way to do the day/night thing.

[Norm4eva]

Jesus. I didn't mean opaque I meant transparent.  I'm bonkers.  People keep complaining about opaque sleeves for some reason, I guess the word was stuck in my brain.

At any rate, agree that they probably could have just revisited flip cards.

I've heard it argued that the real motivation behind doing this was to force suckers into getting "8-of" playsets instead of "4-of".  Heh, I doubt that's true, but you know that someone's going to 'have to' do this; keep their Chinese foil 'day' playset in their deck and put the Japanese foil 'night' ones on their 'not-sideboard' for when they transform, just so they aren't using either checklists or resleeving.

If checklists sell for more than $0.03 we should all lol and puke ourselves to sleep.

[Yare]

If checklists sell for more than $0.03 we should all lol and puke ourselves to sleep.

lol, which bubble is filled in suddenly becomes really important. Maybe people will get artist altered ones with some fancy bubbling. I can see it already!

[mike_bergeron]

The sales figures on the official magic sleeves must be low, hence a directive to get people to wear sleeves out faster and have to buy new sleeves for casual decks.  Shaaaazzzzzzaaaam! Werewolves!

(Also Bill Copes can transform his Moxes into a lodestone golem, he had 7 of them in play last game)

[vartemis]

I don't know why they didn't just bring back the flip card frames from Kamigawa.  The only thing these do better is have twice the amount of art at a cost of functionality.

j

[ELD]

One thing is for certain, people are resistant to change.  The amount of work required is not actually substantial.  I mean, we're talking about flipping cards over, not building a railroad through Siberia.  It is unlikely that many, if any, of these creatures will be Eternal format worthy.  They will likely reside in draft and, if they're lucky, standard decks for a couple years, and then be remembered as a cool footnote in Magic history.  I'm sure they'd only bring them back if the player response was positive. 

[AmbivalentDuck]

I was hoping the rules blurb would talk a little about weird interactions with 'werewolf' cards and things like Illusionary Mask, but apparently not.

Ixidron and Ixidor.  Are they "face-down" when nightside up?  Does Ixidron turn them into morphs or nightside?  Does he make nightside critters go dayside or stay as they are?

[Marske]

@AmbivalentDuck,
Reading is a artform lost on multiple a forum dweller.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b

Knowing where to look is an even bigger issue for most....

Although the physical action is the same, transforming is not the same as being turned face down. This means that a double-faced card that transforms will not, for example, trigger Unblinking Bleb. Double-faced cards are always face up; they are never face down. If an effect (say, Ixidron) tries to turn a double-faced card face down, nothing happens.

[Norm4eva]

@AmbivalentDuck,
Reading is a artform lost on multiple a forum dweller.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b

Knowing where to look is an even bigger issue for most....

Although the physical action is the same, transforming is not the same as being turned face down. This means that a double-faced card that transforms will not, for example, trigger Unblinking Bleb. Double-faced cards are always face up; they are never face down. If an effect (say, Ixidron) tries to turn a double-faced card face down, nothing happens.

This is another of the interactions I'd been hoping to find out about.  Bummer, although I guess it sort of makes sense, you can't flip a two-faced quarter to tails right?  Eh.

One thing is for certain, people are resistant to change.  The amount of work required is not actually substantial.  I mean, we're talking about flipping cards over, not building a railroad through Siberia.  It is unlikely that many, if any, of these creatures will be Eternal format worthy.  They will likely reside in draft and, if they're lucky, standard decks for a couple years, and then be remembered as a cool footnote in Magic history.  I'm sure they'd only bring them back if the player response was positive. 

It isn't just about being different though, I mean just the application is weird enough and kind of falls into that realm of things that are Neat, but unnecessarily time-consuming.  Playing a sleeved deck with no checklists is just going to add more maintenance to the actual playing of the game; not as much as Diving Top or the Rebel chain - things WotC kind of said they hoped to avoid in the future since they just slow the game down.  Play the card, unsleeve it when it transforms, resleeve it if it changes zones... it's not a ton of work, no, it just adds more goofy shit to the game.

For what it's worth I like everything about the cards except for the idea of actually using them.

[AmbivalentDuck]

@AmbivalentDuck,
Reading is a artform lost on multiple a forum dweller.

I'm hereby indicted for laziness.  Oh noes.

[LotusHead]

Another 3 mana Planeswalker. Dark Ritual this out, discard fatty, animate turn 2.