Re-Evaluating Earwig Squad Decks

[SadDubs]

Ok so I just recently picked up a set of earwig squads cuz all 4 were under the glass and I'd be crazy not to, and have lately been thinking about their use in vintage. In goblins, a resolved squad was usually gg, as it ate up tezz's win cons, and provided a huge damage threat on the board. That was the norm for my meta a year ago, and now with the rise of more resilient tezz builds,as well as oath and aggro mud, goblins, and thus earwig squad has since disappeared in the face of such power house/blowout decks. But while goblins is at the bottom of the barrel, I don't think ES should be as well. Thus I open the discussion of applying ES to non goblins builds for a better hate package in combination with a such a game changer in both disruption and creature strength. A goblin/rogue combination is not an impossible feat for a type 1 deck, and I think such a deck can succeed through the use of ES, as many decks are not prepared for it.
Lets analyize ES's strength against the meta.

vs Tezz, it takes out the vault and tinker win cons, while also providing an unbeatable 5/3 vs trygons and bobs, while jace can only hope to fateseal win vs an aggro board. He's amazing here.

vs Mud
Really only good as a beater, but can take out future threats like chalices and hellkites. Not terrible, but not great.

VS Oath
Takes out oath creatures if played quickly enough via excell. Once again, not terrible, but not great.

VS Storm
Takes out all wincons, pretty dam good.

VS Aggro
Good beater that takes out unplayed goyfs or removal. Pretty good, but not game winning like in combo matchups.

So all in all, ES is the higher end beater that can up and win games vs a big part of the meta; combo-control decks.

If a deck based around ES is going to compete though, its going to need a strong oath/mud hate and excell package to help it push through to a top 8.


4 dark ritual
1 lotus 1 mox jet 1 moxruby

4 squad
3 dark confidant
2 goblin vandal
3 goblin welder
3 oona's prowler
4 slavering nulls 

8 duress
4 diabloic edict
1 demonic tutor
2 null rod

5 waste/strip
4 bloodstained mire
4 badlands
3 mountain
3 swamp


SB
4 ingot chewer
4 chainer's edict
3 leyline of the void
1 pithing needle
2 ravenous trap
1 null rod
 
Vs oath, if we're on the play we duress them, if we're on the draw we have welder to deal with blightsteel and 4 edict to deal with other creatures, until we can get an earwig swquad. Sideboard may include 4 more edict effects or maybe gargadon. all in all, it may prove to be a better aggro deck than fish in dealing with oath.

vs mud we combine the discard heavy synergies from S-Nulls/prowler and duress/seiz, with artfact and creature removal from edict, welder, and vandals. 2 of null rod also comes into account on random occasions, while 8 accel options help power us through inital spheres. prowlers trade with lodestones after hands are emptied. sideboard includes 4 ingot chewer for chalices and further arti hate, and 1 needle and 1 rod for Karn, worker, or Staff 

vs aggro we have 4 edict main as well as a smaller rod count than other fish decks, which can be quite good at times.if they play vial, great, we have 5 arti gobs and 2 rods. ES is key against this matchup, while our 4 dark rits gives us a faster accel plan than hierarchs or vials. sideboard brings in 4 more edicts and a couple ingot chewers for more beater bulk. Hopefully our discard plan throws them off enough. plus, we can block selkies and possibly win the card advnatage race.

vs storm we are the favoured matchup, we have 8 duress effects,and even more discard creatures, followed by ES and the occassional null rod. we bring in a 3rd nll rod for consistency. done.

vs tezz we are favoured. 4 edicts to deal with their bobs and predators, making sure to save one back for tinker. 8 seize plus follow up prowler and null discard gives us a solid beater/discard mix to allow for a follow up ES, turns 1,2,3. Later, we can bring in a needle, 1 rod, and a few chewers for additional arti hate if desired.

vs Ichorid troubling, but not horrible. everything but null rod comes in to play some role in fighting ichorid.

All in all, i think a build like this has a good shot at playability. ES allows for the crucial extra push against combo decks, while the supporting synergies enable a decent matchup against mud. Oath is still worrisome, but there seems to be enough creature hate in the 75 that can help stall for an earwig squad. It's really just dependant on the coin flip for that matchup. Anyways, please share your thoughts and ideas, this is just one build and I think we can all pitch in innovative ideas to make something of this.ES may be just what is needed for the overall strength of such aggro hate decks.

[3rdEyeThinker]

I think the 7 slots dedicated to Prowler and Snulls are the most room for change and innovation. black guards may also be an interesting option, as well as nezumi grave robber and rathi trapper.

[Mr. Type 4]

Bitterblossom tokens are Rogues, and that card's def not the worst. 

[AmbivalentDuck]

Decklist:
Mana
---Some lands---
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald

Creatures
4 Earwig Squad
4 Goblin Vandal

Spells
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

No matter how you cut or slice it, you're going to be within 20 cards of the goblins build.  You have to sit there and ask yourself, "Self, do I really want to play a less consistent version of a deck we know is presently bad?"  What you've essentially done is cut the Goblin tutoring and density for...Bitterblossoms?  Duress effects?  The cost of Earwig Squad isn't measured in mana, it's measured in CONNECTING with a goblin and/or rogue.  1 CMC goblins like Fanatic and Lackey (who has the same condition for relevance as Squad!) are clearly superior in that context since the opponent's opportunity to drop blockers is far more limited and you can use your second turn's mana for Edict effects or other removal (ie. Fanatic/Bolt/Gempalm) to help them connect.  

Also consider that cards like Oona's Prowler give your opponent the option of discarding two cards to not lose in what is now the unlikely case that they'd actually lose to a single cap or to that particular 3 points of damage.  I have to imagine that a pitch Time Walk would be the first card banned in Vintage for power level reasons...not sure why you'd let your opponent play with one.  You've also given dredge an outlet to dump Gravetroll before their first Bazaar activation.  It's hard to believe that you've really improved the Earwig Squad deck in a tier-altering way.

In a world where MUD isn't tier 1, sure, play things that have a cost measured in critters connecting.  Until then, play Jester's Cap in MUD if you think the effect is relevant.

[TheBrassMan]

Ambivalent Duck hinted at it - but I'll right out and say it: If there was ever a time where Earwig Squad was a good card, now is not that time.  MUD decks should more or less find the effect laughable.  Not only have they always been completely immune to caps, MUD decks now run any number of creatures that ignore a 5/3, Steel Hellkite and Wurmcoil Engine just don't care, Duplicant actually gets BETTER if you play a Squad.

With MUD as possibly the most popular and most powerful deck currently legal, Squad seems at an all time low.  Besides MUD, Jace means that most control decks have more than 3 win conditions - meaning it's less a kill now than it used to be.

Earwig Squad seems weaker now than it's ever been as long as it's been legal (and I'm not convinced it's ever been particularly amazing).

That said, if you're really sold on the deck, I mirror the thoughts of most of the posters in saying Oona's Prowler is the first place to look at cutting cards - it's a two mana 3/1 with a drawback - it wouldn't be playable if it didn't have the drawback, that's just too small a threat for two mana in vintage.

[SadDubs]

Decklist:
Mana
---Some lands---
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald

Creatures
4 Earwig Squad
4 Goblin Vandal

Spells
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

No matter how you cut or slice it, you're going to be within 20 cards of the goblins build.  You have to sit there and ask yourself, "Self, do I really want to play a less consistent version of a deck we know is presently bad?"  What you've essentially done is cut the Goblin tutoring and density for...Bitterblossoms?  Duress effects?  The cost of Earwig Squad isn't measured in mana, it's measured in CONNECTING with a goblin and/or rogue.  1 CMC goblins like Fanatic and Lackey (who has the same condition for relevance as Squad!) are clearly superior in that context since the opponent's opportunity to drop blockers is far more limited and you can use your second turn's mana for Edict effects or other removal (ie. Fanatic/Bolt/Gempalm) to help them connect.  

Also consider that cards like Oona's Prowler give your opponent the option of discarding two cards to not lose in what is now the unlikely case that they'd actually lose to a single cap or to that particular 3 points of damage.  I have to imagine that a pitch Time Walk would be the first card banned in Vintage for power level reasons...not sure why you'd let your opponent play with one.  You've also given dredge an outlet to dump Gravetroll before their first Bazaar activation.  It's hard to believe that you've really improved the Earwig Squad deck in a tier-altering way.

In a world where MUD isn't tier 1, sure, play things that have a cost measured in critters connecting.  Until then, play Jester's Cap in MUD if you think the effect is relevant.

Just because its visually similar to goblins, doesnt mean it plays out or is limited to the scope of goblins. Please donot make sweeping judgements when you have only looked at a list and compared it to another. The fact that we get ES's power in combination with disruption like duress over just stupid goblin beaters is a big separation. And if I can get my opponent to discard TWO cards from a single creature's attack, Ill be happy; i believe thats something called card advantage. The discard synergies in the deck means that quite often, mud wont have anything to discard, while tezz wont even want to discard 1-2 cards a turn. That said, prowler is very weak against ichorid and I am open to different interpretations of the deck.

The inherent greatness I see in ES is not the fact that he is amazing vs mud, but the fact that he is a solid beater in that matchup, and is a HUGE threat against the control/combo field. He effectively gives r/b hate a huge out against the likely 50% of the decks you will face in a tournament, while he also stands a decent chance in other matchups. VS Mud he takes out 3 chalices and gives you a 5/3, thats pretty big to me.

While I see that guys like you are resistant to rogue experiment decks, I have to ask you to not be so closed minded to pet builds. Obviously this deck as it exists is not likely to break the format, but when we avoid shutting down a thread by saying "no" time and time again, we destroy any new sparks of creativity or innovation. I know you're intentions are in the right place, but Im going to ask for only constructive criticism that moves the deck forward, instead of blanket generalizations and complete dismissal of the deck.

That said, I have already tested this a bit vs mud, and I am intent on the following cuts:

- 1 ES
- 1 prowler

+2 shattering spree

[AmbivalentDuck]

While I see that guys like you are resistant to rogue experiment decks, I have to ask you to not be so closed minded to pet builds.

You picked the wrong guy to say that to.  I've been playing rogue decks to top8 finishes since Urza's Saga was first printed.

If you want to accuse me of being resistant to this rogue build, fine.  I am.  I think you've taken a bad deck and made it worse through a misunderstanding of the principles presently governing Vintage.  But it's another thing altogether to extrapolate that well-founded criticism to an accusation that I'm against rogue decks or the rogue deckbuilding process.  You've misidentified the weaknesses in the format ripe for exploiting, end of story.

If you want me to show you how badly MUD crushes this thing on Cockatrice a few times, I'm happy to do so.  I'm also happy to show you my team's present rogue build.  I'm even happy to sit down and chat about rogue deckbuilding in general.  I'm not happy to endure baseless accusations about my character.

Good day sir.

[SadDubs]

Ambivalent Duck hinted at it - but I'll right out and say it: If there was ever a time where Earwig Squad was a good card, now is not that time.  MUD decks should more or less find the effect laughable.  Not only have they always been completely immune to caps, MUD decks now run any number of creatures that ignore a 5/3, Steel Hellkite and Wurmcoil Engine just don't care, Duplicant actually gets BETTER if you play a Squad.

With MUD as possibly the most popular and most powerful deck currently legal, Squad seems at an all time low.  Besides MUD, Jace means that most control decks have more than 3 win conditions - meaning it's less a kill now than it used to be.

Earwig Squad seems weaker now than it's ever been as long as it's been legal (and I'm not convinced it's ever been particularly amazing).

That said, if you're really sold on the deck, I mirror the thoughts of most of the posters in saying Oona's Prowler is the first place to look at cutting cards - it's a two mana 3/1 with a drawback - it wouldn't be playable if it didn't have the drawback, that's just too small a threat for two mana in vintage.

I disagree with you on jace. Even if they play 3 jace, a resolved ES is gg. What can a jace do against a 5/3 and a number of other creatures? Bounce it? Sure, I'll recast him and take out your other 2 jaces, and Fate-seal cant do a thing vs a full board of creatures.

And as for Mud, ES can get rid of their 1 of wurmcoil and 2 of other beater. Thus I can save my 11 other removal effects for his golems and such.

[SadDubs]

While I see that guys like you are resistant to rogue experiment decks, I have to ask you to not be so closed minded to pet builds.

You picked the wrong guy to say that to.  I've been playing rogue decks to top8 finishes since Urza's Saga was first printed.

If you want to accuse me of being resistant to this rogue build, fine.  I am.  I think you've taken a bad deck and made it worse through a misunderstanding of the principles presently governing Vintage.  But it's another thing altogether to extrapolate that well-founded criticism to an accusation that I'm against rogue decks or the rogue deckbuilding process.  You've misidentified the weaknesses in the format ripe for exploiting, end of story.

If you want me to show you how badly MUD crushes this thing on Cockatrice a few times, I'm happy to do so.  I'm also happy to show you my team's present rogue build.  I'm even happy to sit down and chat about rogue deckbuilding in general.  I'm not happy to endure baseless accusations about my character.

Good day sir.

Your post was anything but pro-rogue building, you compare a build separated by 20 cards to mere goblins dec and you've made judgements on a build that you have not tested or seen developed. That was the type of character I was shown. I only ask that you abide by my request.

Good day sir.

[Blue Lotus]

There are, for the sake of simplicity, infinite magic decks. You don't test them all because theory dictates what is playable. Your deck is unplayable. No one looking for a competitive deck will test it.

[TheBrassMan]

Blue Lotus is being a little harsh, but there's a grain of truth there - people just aren't going to test every deck - particularly decks in the creative board.  That said, I don't think Ambivalent Duck was attacking you by comparing your deck to Goblins.  Ambivalent Duck has played Goblins many times in the past, and wasn't using that comparison to dismiss your ideas. 

If anything, using phrases like "mere goblins dec" means you're being the antagonistic one / the one dismissing rogue strategies (Though I'm sure this was unintentional).

Some of this conversation has revolved around the idea that right now, in "the global metagame", Earwig Squad is of a low power level.  This is completely true, and I stand by this, but that doesn't necessarily mean the metagame you personally play in is reflective of that global metagame.  Maybe where you play MUD is less common, and control decks are unprepared to deal with creatures - if so, Earwig Squad makes a lot more sense.

If you are intending to purse the the deck for that reason, again, I'd bring up Oona's Prowler as the weakest link in your deck.  Bitterblossom isn't particularly amazing, but it does what Prowler does a little better.

Prowler is low-hanging fruit though, two things seem to job out at me as problems you'll need to solve.

1.  A large number of cards in your deck seem to rely on not being blocked.  Squad, Vandal, and Nulls are all pretty terrible if your opponent has blockers, and you have no particular way of discouraging other players from blocking.  In some matchups your opponent won't naturally have any, but in many more they'll have access to something, if it's just the Confidants and Lotus Cobras of Tezzeret lists, or the Ready-For-Battle Tarmogoyfs and Hellkites of fish and stax.  What is your plan if your opponent plays a 1/3 or bigger in the early game?

2. The deck is loaded with ways to make an opponent discard cards, but that's an old strategy with a number of well-known Achilles heels.  Mostly discard-based strategies can have a lot of trouble against topdecked threats and topdeck tutors.  Four Diabolic Edicts is a start,  but it may be hard to find one against Tinker-Blightsteel, and might not do anything against Tinker-Myr.  Vampiric Tutor for Oath of Druids or Yawgmoth's Will may be more problematic.  What is your plan against Vampiric Tutor?

Neither of those problems make your deck completely unplayable- they're just things you'll want to think about.

[SadDubs]

There are, for the sake of simplicity, infinite magic decks. You don't test them all because theory dictates what is playable. Your deck is unplayable. No one looking for a competitive deck will test it.

Well thats fine, and thats why this is in the creative forum. I for one, am testing this deck and tweaking it throughout. I think there are alot of people looking for alternative strategies that are not always going to be competitive. Fish will hardly ever beyond 5th place, but there are still countless variations and threads of people discussing and pondering their possibilities. It's called innovation, and I can't stress that word enough. Thats why I am going down this unlikely path to see what I can come out with. Everyone reading this thread can join me for the ride. That is why we all acknowledge the reality that this is an unlikely, "creative forum" deck and we suspend such comments saying that its just "plane uncomptetitive," and we just go along and test and tweak without being continually bogged down by such comments.

*to the manadrain community* Please leave only constructive criticism that will move the discussion forward, or feel free by your own accord to let this thread die. Just dont leave anymore comments saying "no this deck wont work, this deck won't work"

That said, I still believe ES offers a unique approach to the "hate deck" archetype and I'm tweaking it to see where it can go. And I wouldn't mind hearing a few ideas on card choices and synergies that can work in this r/b hate deck.

[Shax]

To be honest, I would just run Goblins. They get all the bonuses Goblins get. What people have said here remains true. MUD can be knocked out easier if you connect with Lackey and they are just dropping Spheres every turn. You can play some pretty mean disruption with Null Rod. Lodestone Golem is stilll the nuts against you. Creatures they pointed out are also relevant. BSC is a pain in the arse. So a Goblins build packing old innovations like Stingscourger sounds icyhot good. Shattering Spree will be your friend against MUD, but has the problems have getting cast all the time with lots of replicated Sprees. Ichorid/Dredge game one is bad for all decks not packing Leyline/Graveyard Removal/Luck sack win conditions. Which are Vault/Key, DSC, Storm to highlight the big ones.

My assumption is that a Goblins deck can do well, but it is better off trying to hate out the big contenders. Earwig Squad feels.. at its weakest point right now. MUD laughs, Dredge laughs, blue control decks now laugh. We're all laughing. The worst part is that its at you, Earwig Squad.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I think there are alot of people looking for alternative strategies that are not always going to be competitive.

If you're going to do this, then just stick to friendly games at the kitchen table.  If you are already conceding that a given deck choice is not competitive, but you play it just because it's fun, then tournaments probably aren't your cup of tea.  Especially in a global meta, like you displayed theory against, if you know the deck is probably going to go 2-4-1 in a tourney, then I don't think that's a lot of fun.  It's fine as a pet deck, but you said yourself that this deck is an alternative - not necessarily a good choice.  If I were even looking at outlier decks for butget reasons, I'd play null rod fish or something.

[AmbivalentDuck]

SadDubs, let me do you a favor and get your thread "back on track."

1.  Quickly address sorites paradox: what changes can we make to your deck without being accused of talking about a different deck?

2.  In what context do you believe Earwig Squad is playable?  This isn't general.  What is YOUR meta like?

3.  Set up a git project or other tracking system so that we can see your present build and what you've already tried.  Do the work of giving us the evidence we need to have a productive conversation.  Maybe make a post and edit it after each matchup so that we can talk about problem areas.

[TheBrassMan]

Have you considered running blue instead of (or in addition to) red?

There are quite a few blue Rogues that could fill holes in the deck while also triggering Earwig prowl

Looter-il Kor filters cards and is unblockable
Rootwater Thief acts as extra Earwigs and has conditional evasion
Thada Adel is not only hard for some decks to block, but can single-handedly win some matchups

Replacing your red artifact hate for blue would give you more inherent strength against Tinker, and running counters instead of a few discard spells could solve some of your trouble with topdecks (you could still run some discard, but 12 seems high)

If budget isn't an issue, you get Time Walk and Ancestral, which are not only obviously good, but likely triple the value of the tutors you're already running.

OR

If you're looking for something truly off the beaten path, Auntie's Snitch is an interesting card to look at.  Not only does it represent a never-ending stream of threats, it can play very very nicely with anything requiring "discard a card" as a cost.  Snitch turns Looter il-Kor into an unblockable Scroll Thief, and likely does obscene things with Bazaar.  A Snitch build would trade consistency for synergy.

[madmanmike25]

I honestly don't think Earwig is as bad as people are making it out to be.  Taking three cards from my library (even from MUD) is nothing I would ever enjoy.  I built a rogue deck ages ago and had some success with Sygg, River Cutthroat, but 99% of the time Confidant is just a better card.

Frogtosser Banneret is also a rogue and makes prowl cost only 2 mana.  Seems like today it would be helpful against Sphere and Lodestone.

I wish I could find my old rogue deck, but I dont feel like going through every page of my posts.

[xouman]

I played a Rogue rogues deck (lol) a couple of years ago. I took that deck about 4 tournaments, being 3-3 the best result. That was more or less the deck:

creatures 15-18
4-earwig squad
4-oona's blackguard
2/4-looter il kor
0/4-rootwater thief
0/3-cold-eyed selkie
0/2-dark confidant

instants 12
4-force of will
3-daze
2-stifle
1-misdirection
1-hurkyl's / echoing
1-brainstorm
0/1-ponder

sorceries 6
5/6-duress + tgz
1-demonic tutor

enchantments 0/4
0/4-bitterblossom

artifacts 4
3/4-null rod

lands 21
2/3-underground sea
5/7-fetchlands (mostly polluted)
4-wasteland
1-strip mine
2-mutavault
3-island
3-swamp



I lost lots of times after resolving Squad, and lots of times it got countered. I planned to change some rogues for spellstutters, but that deck was utterly crap, losing to mud and aggro easily and having often bad hands against drain decks. I switched to merfolks+faeries and things went frankly better.


With RB I wouldn't play ritual at all. I would fit it in a control deck, maybe with liquidmetal+welder+vandal. I also bought slavering nulls in case i would play Squad again, but i found difficult to find a good combination of rogues, at least paired with any other tribal deck (as goblin, merfolks or even faeries)

[Mr. Type 4]

I've def had to counter Earwig in a recent tournament or I'd have been left without win conds. So Earwig Squard is going to be good against some of the decks you'll face at a tournament, and it will be far from optimal against others.  I think the takeaway is that you will want to gear your deck to have main deck solutions to MUD, which is one of the reasons I suggested Bitterblossom.  It helps you get ahead on permanents making Tangle Wire or Smokestack weaker against you, and provides some blockers as well as a potential air-force alpha strike. 

You're going to need a lot more than Bitterblossom to beat MUD, tho, and if your deck doesn't test favorably against MUD then it's no good for serious tournament play.  The challenge is building a deck that can win vs MUD and plays well against the rest of the field- which is the general theory behind beating the current Vintage metagame with any deck. 

BTW -  It's hard to make up ANY deck that can beat MUD consistently and still be good against the rest of the field, and if I made up a rogue deck and said "this crushes MUD all the time" people would probably call foul.  Instead we need to think, "what can we do to make this concept competitive vs MUD?" and then "how badly does improving my percentages against MUD ruin my percentages against the rest of the field?" 

[SadDubs]

right now is exam time so me and my friend who plays MUD wont be able to do very much testing, but I will eventually get back with some results. Bitterblossom is probably the best engine for earwig squad and I will test it out a bit. The addition of blue is an interesting option, so we'll see how that turns out too. B/G rogues may also be effective as you can better deal with enchants and artifacts together.