New Phyrexia Cards that Matter in vintage

[Soapbot]

Just wanted to Arm you with the essentials for this set. Not much good stuff. Seems like they make alot of worthless cards that mirror cards we had along time ago. but NE way here is what you should be getting from the new set to add to your vintage collection

Karn, The Released. - Eh...I'd pick up 2 its good in belcher and someone wil try to make it good in stax, and other artifact decks, allthough you could way till the price cools.

Gitaxian Probe- get 4 its cheap, ups storm counts and is better than streetwraith (which you already have 4 of) all around good card with lots of potential

Phyrexian metamorph-  1 or 2, In workshops its a double of whatever you have reminiscient of steel sphere, or can copy an welder or blightsteel, or confidant, or your opponents timevault, uses are pretty good

Praetor's grip - 1 or 2 - Cool card will find some uses, fights for a grim tutor spot

Surgical Extraction 4 of,- more dredge hate, doesn't target player so gets around Leyline of Sanctity, can be played in any deck similar to ravenous trap
depending on price, I'd buy these later since these kinda cards always go down (cranial extraction, extripate etc etc.)

Beast Within - 4 of- its real good in oath as a 2 of. Luckily its an uncommon, but its foil version is getting expensive so get them while everyone's sleeping on it

Noxious Revival -1 or 2. Cool to play in tandem with ancestral recall, or brainstorm. Its free as well and another uncommon, any deck can use this card even dredge

Geosurge- 4 of- another belcher card, you could pass but its aight.
 
All in all this set sucks, Save for Blightsteel this whole block sucked, I mean Phyrexia's core ???? It's Phyrexia's CORE it should do something a bit better than gaining 1 life. Utter Garbage.

[Purple Hat]

is turning RRRR into RRRRRRR really an effect belcher needs?  I haven't seen nat have too many mana issues when I've played with him, even if you did isn't seething song just better?

I don't think noxious revival is all that good.  What deck wants this effect?  most decks don't even play regrowth and it puts the card in your hand all by itself.  putting it on top of your deck, especially with Jace in the format, doesn't seem like an upgrade.  it kinda looks like a 2 card combo involving restricted cards that can get you other restricted cards that you've already played.

[TinkerRobot]

I'm shocked Mental Misstep isn't on your list. Definitely the 4-of with the most potential for me.

Also, I really doubt Karn Liberated will see vintage play. Workshop mana doesn't pay for it, and at best it's a Vindicate every turn. Belcher would much rather have EtW as Belchers 5 through 8, and I really don't see a place for it at all in Shop lists.

Also, why suggest Geosurge and Karn for Belcher when the two obviously have dyssynergy with each other.

[Soapbot]

is turning RRRR into RRRRRRR really an effect belcher needs?  I haven't seen nat have too many mana issues when I've played with him, even if you did isn't seething song just better?

I don't think noxious revival is all that good.  What deck wants this effect?  most decks don't even play regrowth and it puts the card in your hand all by itself.  putting it on top of your deck, especially with Jace in the format, doesn't seem like an upgrade.  it kinda looks like a 2 card combo involving restricted cards that can get you other restricted cards that you've already played.

I dunno, you could play noxious revival and gush into another gush, ancestral recall into something you played eariler. ad nauseum into something you wanted. Up storm count. get back vault, key, another mana
drain for protection, or another duress if you're going off.  the possibilites are endless. a few decks run regrowth, and it sucks to see them get a second crack at what they played earlier


I'm not saying Geosurge and Karn together. Geosurge might work in belcher, or in the future if belcher gets better cards. As for Karn, he will see play because of those people out there who WANT to make him good,
he's not bad either, but you do need metalworker to pull him off. He will get better as the game advances,
I believe. Basically he is spine of Isha x 2, which is okay.

also first turn channel with karn is a strong play, so is belcher w/channel, but he could be the 5th belcher

I'm shocked Mental Misstep isn't on your list. Definitely the 4-of with the most potential for me.

Also, I really doubt Karn Liberated will see vintage play. Workshop mana doesn't pay for it, and at best it's a Vindicate every turn. Belcher would much rather have EtW as Belchers 5 through 8, and I really don't see a place for it at all in Shop lists.

Also, why suggest Geosurge and Karn for Belcher when the two obviously have dyssynergy with each other.

Mental mistep... I know I'll get some flack, but its not all that great. Spell pierce just outclasses the card.
it has absolutely no chance against workshops, the powerhouse right now, and in control, you'll be lucky if you get anything WORTH it. Yeah it stops vampirc, but I'd rather stop the tinker that vampiric fetched.
Rather spell pierce the other spell pierce. Its far to narrow of a card. Sure, it can be annoying, but the strongest cards in the game don't cost 1. mostly just the tutors and recall, and spell pierce can take care of those when it matters. It will just be FOW fodder....sorry

[brokenbacon]

Mental mistep... I know I'll get some flack, but its not all that great. Spell pierce just outclasses the card.
it has absolutely no chance against workshops, the powerhouse right now, and in control, you'll be lucky if you get anything WORTH it. Yeah it stops vampirc, but I'd rather stop the tinker that vampiric fetched.
Rather spell pierce the other spell pierce. Its far to narrow of a card. Sure, it can be annoying, but the strongest cards in the game don't cost 1. mostly just the tutors and recall, and spell pierce can take care of those when it matters. It will just be FOW fodder....sorry

I actually agree with this statement. Although I've always been iffy on Pierce vs. Thoughtseize, I think Mental Misstep is strictly a Legacy-specific card. It might see play in Shops vs. Claims or something or other vs. Dredges Chains and Claims, but all in all it's pretty narrow and pretty weak.
Personally it's like Spell Snare. Everyone wants to play it because it's really cool, but it actually really sucks because of how narrow it is. Soapbot is right - it does nothing at all against Shops (stops Sol Ring and Mana Vault), which is a crucial matchup in any given situation.
However don't get me wrong it is beautiful in Legacy. By no means am I saying it's a bad card in general. I'm just saying it's too narrow for the applications of Vintage.

[serracollector]

It may not be maindeck viable, but SB misstep could be an option, remember it still stops

Its stops:

Mystical Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Consultation
Imperial Seal
Dark Ritual
Thoughtseize
Duress
Ancestral
Gorilla Shaman
Nature's Claim
Sensie's Diving Top
Spell Pierce
Goblin Welder
Cabal Therapy
Pithing Needle
Noble Hierarch
Swords to Plowshares

and some other's I am sure I am missing, but having spell pierce "5-8" g2 where I only need to stop those specific cards, sounds good to me.

[brokenbacon]

and some other's I am sure I am missing, but having spell pierce "5-8" g2 where I only need to stop those specific cards, sounds good to me.

I don't know though..... for me, I feel like even sacrificing one SB slot for a Misstep is a mistake. There are a lot more relevant cards that hate on what you listed, and most of those cards seem pretty narrow. What I mean is that if you side in Misstep vs. Fish, you hit Swords and Hierarch. You could have a lot better of a chance siding in Perish or Nature's Ruin vs. Fish. Against Blue.dec, you hit conditional tutors, Duress/Seize effects, Pierce and A Call if you're lucky. I would much rather have REBs or another Duress or two in this case. Against Storm you hit their Blue.dec crap and Rituals, here it's a little more strong. But I'd rather be packing Mindbreak Trap or something like that.
I don't know. Personally I think it's a mistake to use SB slots in a blue based control deck for a narrow card like Misstep. In Shops, maaaaaybe. Not in Dredge, not in Fish, not in Storm.
Also why would you need to stop the specific cards listed? I'd be much more worried about Tinker, Necropotence, Null Rod, Force, Drain, Yawg Win, etc. The cards you list are all finders for the bombs, but stopping the finders doesn't stop the bombs. I'd rather just stop the bomb and make the opponent waste a card grabbing it.

[Soapbot]

@Hey SerraCollector, are you KNIGHT on MWS???? I play you sometimes i think. Ne way, I think you're looking at mental mistep to win battles instead of winning the war altogether.  Against fish I'd play deathmark over mental mistep. Since everything that's gonna kill you is green or better yet massacre. Swords won't kill you.
.Also ever played 2 spellpierce???? you' can't play 2 mental misteps to counter anything good. Spell pierce stops every 1st turn workshop play (if you're on the play) except for metal worker and Lodestone. Spell Pierce can stop you from losing to 1st turn Trinisphere,tinker, and lotus+vault+key. So anything that can do that AND be maindecked in conjucntion with FOW is in a class all its own
win the war, not the battle.  

[TheWhiteDragon]

I don't know though..... for me, I feel like even sacrificing one SB slot for a Misstep is a mistake. There are a lot more relevant cards that hate on what you listed, and most of those cards seem pretty narrow. What I mean is that if you side in Misstep vs. Fish, you hit Swords and Hierarch. You could have a lot better of a chance siding in Perish or Nature's Ruin vs. Fish. Against Blue.dec, you hit conditional tutors, Duress/Seize effects, Pierce and A Call if you're lucky. I would much rather have REBs or another Duress or two in this case. Against Storm you hit their Blue.dec crap and Rituals, here it's a little more strong. But I'd rather be packing Mindbreak Trap or something like that.
I don't know. Personally I think it's a mistake to use SB slots in a blue based control deck for a narrow card like Misstep. In Shops, maaaaaybe. Not in Dredge, not in Fish, not in Storm.

The thing is, you just named why misstep is good.  Perish is better vs fish, mindbreak is better vs storm, rebs are better vs gush.dec, darkblast is better vs welder, and there are better cards vs goblins, elves, belcher, ANT, and a billion other decks.  Unfortunately, my sb doesn't have a billion slots, so using a card that hits typically 30+% of spells in any given deck is pretty good.  Vintage is all about fast, and fast means low mana cost or low mana accelerators (ritual, sol ring, mana vault, etc) that get you to the higher costs.  This card not only stops these things, but duress effects from hitting you, U counters from thwarting you, and other clutch plays for your opponent.  Best, it does all this for free and on turn 0 when you are on the draw.  That's damn good in my book.  Pierce may be more versatile when you have mana, but it doesn't let you tap out, doesn't hit welder, heirarch, hex parasite, etc., and doesn't protect you the 50% of times you lose the coin flip.  It can still be useful later when your opponent rips that tutor/ancestral to break the stalemate, but has a base of 6 mana (occurs often enough) late-game.  This card has plenty of uses and is quite versatile.  The fact it is good against nearly every matchup (even decent at stopping dredge's claim/chain on your leyline) makes it definitely a 4-of to grab.

[GU3ST]

If I thoughtseized or duressed you during the first turn, I would never snag mental mistep from you, since I could easily play around it. Spell pierce I might take, because even though it can be played around, it can hit my jace and a slew of other CRITICAL cards if I'm not careful.

Who would let a duress or thoughtseize resolve if they are holding mental misstep?

[brokenbacon]

I don't know though..... for me, I feel like even sacrificing one SB slot for a Misstep is a mistake. There are a lot more relevant cards that hate on what you listed, and most of those cards seem pretty narrow. What I mean is that if you side in Misstep vs. Fish, you hit Swords and Hierarch. You could have a lot better of a chance siding in Perish or Nature's Ruin vs. Fish. Against Blue.dec, you hit conditional tutors, Duress/Seize effects, Pierce and A Call if you're lucky. I would much rather have REBs or another Duress or two in this case. Against Storm you hit their Blue.dec crap and Rituals, here it's a little more strong. But I'd rather be packing Mindbreak Trap or something like that.
I don't know. Personally I think it's a mistake to use SB slots in a blue based control deck for a narrow card like Misstep. In Shops, maaaaaybe. Not in Dredge, not in Fish, not in Storm.

The thing is, you just named why misstep is good.  Perish is better vs fish, mindbreak is better vs storm, rebs are better vs gush.dec, darkblast is better vs welder, and there are better cards vs goblins, elves, belcher, ANT, and a billion other decks.  Unfortunately, my sb doesn't have a billion slots, so using a card that hits typically 30+% of spells in any given deck is pretty good.  Vintage is all about fast, and fast means low mana cost or low mana accelerators (ritual, sol ring, mana vault, etc) that get you to the higher costs.  This card not only stops these things, but duress effects from hitting you, U counters from thwarting you, and other clutch plays for your opponent.  Best, it does all this for free and on turn 0 when you are on the draw.  That's damn good in my book.  Pierce may be more versatile when you have mana, but it doesn't let you tap out, doesn't hit welder, heirarch, hex parasite, etc., and doesn't protect you the 50% of times you lose the coin flip.  It can still be useful later when your opponent rips that tutor/ancestral to break the stalemate, but has a base of 6 mana (occurs often enough) late-game.  This card has plenty of uses and is quite versatile.  The fact it is good against nearly every matchup (even decent at stopping dredge's claim/chain on your leyline) makes it definitely a 4-of to grab.

Yes, I think you're correct. However, it seems that in a control role Misstep is not as good as Pierce. In a combo role in which you need to protect your threats from Seize/Duress/Pierce yes Misstep is better. But in the case that you're on the control end of the matchup, Pierce/Thoughtseize is definitely better.
Look personally, I'm just not a big fan of the card in Vintage. This is why I'm being narrow about it. So yes I guess I'm being biased, and as a result I'm not supporting my argument very well. So in that sense I concede that Misstep may turn out to be a legitimate force in Vintage.

But I'm not going to be the one to do it first - power to you, sir! (Note: I mean that in an entirely non-aggressive way - I would love to see this card broken in two in Vintage, since it's a really really cool card.)

[Daenyth]

I think this card will be played, and it will be good, but I'll be playing Pierce over it. It reminds me a lot of the discussion about Nix and Spell Snare when they came out. Lots of hype and now they're not really played at all.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Nix was never good because it only countered moxen (weak), black lotus, and force/MisD...vs any other deck than FoW decks, it sucks.  Hitting a pair of spells is lame too...and for U mana.  Spell snare is still played at times and still very decent.  It hits spheres, DT, oath, and other clutch spells.  But Misstep has a head above snare in that it costs 0 mana and it actually has about 3 times as many viable targets commonly played in almost all decks.  Snare is probably better vs shops or fish, but hitting random critter or sphere is hardly great.  Hitting welder, ancestral, see list above and do a deck check, and you can see how this card is far better than its predecessors.

[Troy_Costisick]

I don't think Miststep is going to matter much in Vintage.  A Vintage deck has a great diversity of spell costs from zero to three.  In Legacy, gobs of decks huddle around one or two mana making Miststep and Spell Snare really good.  But Vintage is different.  Very different.

[TheWhiteDragon]

If we really want to judge this more scientifically, we should run a deck check of the top 20 decks and see what percentage of each deck costs 1 (not counting lands).  That'd give you a good picture of how versatile this card is.  I think the only decks that will show statistical shortfalls at 1cc are shops and dredge.  But hitting the 100% 1cc anti-hate of dredge is great g2/3, and hitting the welders that accompany shops are a huge play.  I would do this, but I am WAY too lazy.

[Soapbot]

Nix was never good because it only countered moxen (weak), black lotus, and force/MisD...vs any other deck than FoW decks, it sucks.  Hitting a pair of spells is lame too...and for U mana.  Spell snare is still played at times and still very decent.  It hits spheres, DT, oath, and other clutch spells.  But Misstep has a head above snare in that it costs 0 mana and it actually has about 3 times as many viable targets commonly played in almost all decks.  Snare is probably better vs shops or fish, but hitting random critter or sphere is hardly great.  Hitting welder, ancestral, see list above and do a deck check, and you can see how this card is far better than its predecessors.

In Legacy they hang around 1 and 2 cc, In vintage the Magic number is 0. 3 of the Pillars use zero (bazaar, Workshop, FOW) . The Lotus, Mox and friends ramp us out way past 1 being a significant number in vintage. Bazaar doesn't use mana that much, and Workshop starts at 2 or 3 cc.

Yeah mental mistep can hit any number of spells true. But what are the best one casting spells in the game

Ancestral , Vampiric, Mystical, sensei's top....

These cards are great but they are a means to an end. They all get tinker, yawgmoth's will, tendrils, time vault, jace or whatever card you use to win even auriok salvagers. I'd rather have a card that could counter my opponents win conditions as well as anything that can grant card/board advantage. Most 1 casting cards aren't that powerful (hence why they cost 1 ). Would you rather stop the opponents dark ritual, or the ad nauseum. I'm just baffled how people think this card will have impact, it will be annoying at best. Has no application against workshops either that's what religates it to a sideboard card, and there are way better side board options. Relic and Leyline stop both goblin welder AND dredge. Yeah
Lemme side in my mental mistep hoping to hit your welder. When i could just Kill the graveyard and have a chance against dredge too.

[TinkerRobot]

As with anything else, the usefulness of Mental Misstep depends on one's metagame.

I'm from Mass, and around here Blue decks seem to outnumber Shops greatly. I'd maindeck it just to gun down Voltaic Key, D. Ritual and Spell Pierce. Especially V. Key, because a huge number of archetypes seem to be throwing in Vault/Key as their 2nd/3rd win con just because it's available.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I already conceded that misstep is not great vs shop and dredge, but it is very good in general, and i believe maindeck.  Are you going to run main relics and leyline?  Of course not, but if you have main misstep and face welder g1, it is not dead.  Even if you face mud and they try to cast voltaic key (kuldotha combo) sol ring, or mana vault, you can at least get something out of it.  G2/3 vs dredge, I thing it is very good since they play cabal therapy to hit your counters, and /darkblast/natures cliam/chain of vapor as their ONLY ways to kill your hate.  If you can stop even one anti-hate spell, you have a great chance of riding that single jailer/leyline/etc.  If you have FoW, great, if not, this is good.  Yes, pierce will stop these too if you have the mana, but what about when you are on the draw g3, and mull into your leyline, then they open with city/claim on your leyline?  This is a very common play for them.  They expect the hate and often mull into an answer rather than bazaar....and many times just happen to have both.  If they have bazaar and a hand of 7, odds are decent they have 1 of their 8 claim/chain and one of 8 city/paradise.
That's the big thing here.  People are underestimating FREE.  Pierce may hit a broader spectrum of CC spells, but it can't hit critters like welder, heirarch, parasite, lackey, vandal, etc., and it does nothing but mock you on the draw.  Has a pierce ever saved your awesome ancestral/tinker hand from a turn 0 duress?  I think not.  Understand that vintage is not about 0cc, but about SPEED.  To say that decks run 8 moxen and therefore everything good costs more than 1 is ridiculous.  many games people open with just a land and want to cast something good on turn 1.  Look at decks and see that 40-50% of non-shop, non-dredge decks are 1cc spells.  Dredge's entire deck basically has no casting cost and runs through a land, so pierce isn't doing much g1 anyway.  Vs shops, pierce is better.
But I don't think shops are 100% of the meta just yet.  Vs every other archetype, 1cc is abundant.  You say you want to stop the opponents timevault...isn't stopping key just as good?  You want to stop tinker...if you can stop their ancestral/vampiric/mystical and they never get tinker into hand, isn't that as good?  You want to stop tendrils...isn't hitting ritual crippling?  Want to stop gush?...how about hitting their brainstorm or fastbond?  Trouble with confidant?...killing that sensei top makes for a good move.  The fact that misstep lets you stop these plays on turn 0, again, is huge.  Vintage IS about speed, regardless of cc.  They run a lot of accelerants, but also a lot of CHEAP spells to enable bigger plays or fix their hand.  If you stop them from drawing/digging/tutoring, then they start playing draw, spell, go.  If they try to clear the path like ANT or TPS does, then misstep can help a lot.  Why do I mention speed?  Because when you start half of the games on the draw and your opponent is capable of winning, doing something broken, ruining your hand, or putting you in a deep hole on their 1st turn when you have no mana, misstep is great.
And I couldn't give a healthy, steaming, coffee-inspired shit about standard or legacy.  This is a Vintage thread, and the impact in other formats is completely irrelevant (beyond price).

[nineisnoone]

How about Act of Aggression?  The fact that it doesn't need red opens it up to a lot of decks.  The fact that it is instant means that you can use it defensively to set-up trades with creatures. 

It might also be an interesting card for Shop decks that run Smokestack.  Stealing Metalworkers should be good in the mirror.

[Guli]

Mental Misstep is powerfull. Two things I want to say about it:

- It has the free aspect of Daze
- and it has the hard counter element of Spell Snare

So it is a free hard counter for spells with cmc 1. You are telling me that in a format like Vintage, this is not good enough? I dropped Gaddock Teeg for this, to combine it with Force of Will.

[hitman]

So it is a free hard counter for spells with cmc 1. You are telling me that in a format like Vintage, this is not good enough? I dropped Gaddock Teeg for this, to combine it with Force of Will.

That seems strange to me.  I don't know in what deck you swapped Gaddock Teeg for Mental Misstep but they do very different things.  It seems like an odd replacement.

[Wagner]

I really just don't think Mental Misstep is that much a big deal in Vintage. Yes it counters some cards, but it doesn't counter as many as Spell Snare (which isn't played a lot) and the cards it does counter are either restricted (fewer in number) or utility (Preordain, StP, Top). Yes it's free, yes it can be played in any deck, but, I just don't see it being a well rounded answer. And against Stacks, it counters pretty much nothing except Sol Ring.

[kenoc]

Mental Misstep is obviously good enough to play in vintage.  If not now, maybe later.  So the real question is "Should I get 4 now or later?"

Being that they are an uncommon, and starcitygames has it on their front page at $4.99, I think the answer is obvious:

Who knows?

$5 bucks!!!  WTH?

[nineisnoone]

Mental Misstep is obviously good enough to play in vintage.  If not now, maybe later.  So the real question is "Should I get 4 now or later?"

Being that they are an uncommon, and starcitygames has it on their front page at $4.99, I think the answer is obvious:

Who knows?

$5 bucks!!!  WTH?

I don't think it obviously is.  There are a long list of spells I'd pick over Misstep.  The name is pretty much ironic.

[Mr. Type 4]

I think Mental Misstep is sideboard quality for Vintage.  It's not good enough main deck because Shop is such a major player in the metagame, but that doesn't mean it's bad or unplayable. Here's an quick example of how it could be used competitvely: Put it in a Shop deck sideboard to stop Nature's Claim if its popular in your metagame (right now the card most played to hose Shops is Hurkyl's Recall, due to the amount of Blightsteel in the meta, but you get the point)

Obviously decks with easy access to blue mana have some debateably better options that will compete for that space, but non-blue decks dont usually have the luxury of playing free counterspells that actually do something relevant.

It's $5 because it's good in those other formats that really drive the prices on new singles.  

[evouga]

Sure, every now and again you'll snag an Ancestal or Top. Stop a key tutor, or inopportune Nature's Claim. Or counter a Spell Pierce and win a key counter-war.

Most of the time, though, you'll be staring at Mental Misstep forlornly while your opponent resolves his actual game-winning spells, like Oath, Tinker, Trinisphere, Jace, etc, and bitterly regretting your decision not to "splurge" for Spell Pierce.

Yeah, put me firmly in the "overhyped" camp.

[Guli]

Mental Misstep is obviously good enough to play in vintage.  If not now, maybe later.  So the real question is "Should I get 4 now or later?"

Being that they are an uncommon, and starcitygames has it on their front page at $4.99, I think the answer is obvious:

Who knows?

$5 bucks!!!  WTH?

I don't think it obviously is.  There are a long list of spells I'd pick over Misstep.  The name is pretty much ironic.

Spells that you wont be able to cast in time will not matter. The strenght lies in the fact that Mental Misstep can be cast WHILE you drop a hoser like for example Ethersworn Canonist. Being able to catch those so called 'small' spells is huge IF combined with hosers. Mental Misstep is not ment to stop the big bombs but more like disrupts the glue of their deck. It adds pressure to pressure.

[Daenyth]

I think it's relevant to ask what cards you would cut in a similar list to make room for Misstep.

[Guli]

It is also relevant to know about what archetype we are talking about. What I am suggesting is specific, aggro control with most likely strong 2 drops like Qasali, Canonist, Gaddock Teeg, Kataki, Tarmogoyf, ...

[nineisnoone]

Mental Misstep is obviously good enough to play in vintage.  If not now, maybe later.  So the real question is "Should I get 4 now or later?"

Being that they are an uncommon, and starcitygames has it on their front page at $4.99, I think the answer is obvious:

Who knows?

$5 bucks!!!  WTH?

I don't think it obviously is.  There are a long list of spells I'd pick over Misstep.  The name is pretty much ironic.

Spells that you wont be able to cast in time will not matter. The strenght lies in the fact that Mental Misstep can be cast WHILE you drop a hoser like for example Ethersworn Canonist. Being able to catch those so called 'small' spells is huge IF combined with hosers. Mental Misstep is not ment to stop the big bombs but more like disrupts the glue of their deck. It adds pressure to pressure.

No.  It doesn't add pressure.  How does not-countering-their-big-bombs add pressure? 

All you are doing is weakening your threat/answer density.

Think about it this way... if they counter your spell, then that is 1 less counter that they have to use to protect THEIR bombs.  The correct play is to draw out their counter, then counter their threat, then play another threat.  You win through attrition not by trying to power out a single spell.