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vroman
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« on: May 03, 2011, 02:58:26 pm » |
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Gregg Keithley and I have set a bet.
We each proxy up our own copy of 5 vintage-legal decks. Play a series of tournament style best 2of3 matches with randomly selected decks (re-roll if its same ppl playing same decks). First to 13 match wins is the winner of the bet.
My $60 to his $40.
So now need to come up with five representative deck lists. There are way more than 5 viable archetypes, so cant be comprehensive metagame demonstration. Also both players will be running the same lists, so theres no value in 'surprise' tech.
Suggestions appreciated
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Unrestrict: Flash, Burning Wish Restore and restrict: Transmute Artifact, Abeyance, Mox Diamond, Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins, Shahrazad Kill: Time Vault I say things http://unpopularideasclub.blogspot.com |
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Diakonov
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Hey Now
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2011, 06:56:13 pm » |
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You could just do one per pillar, even if it doesn't cover every archetype:
Workshop Aggro
Drains/Jace/Gush
TPS
Ichorid
Noble Fish
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VINTAGE CONSOLES VINTAGE MAGIC VINTAGE JACKETS Team Hadley  |
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conboy31
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 07:57:12 pm » |
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Something like this could also lead to great match writeups! I know I have enjoyed your tournament reports in the past.
TPS
Workshops (red? mud? metalworker? rod? so many choices)
Oath of druids
Jace drain control deck
- ichorid - fish - another mud? -
Also, browsing Ellias's starcitygames vintage meta reports could be useful.
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 08:17:10 pm » |
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Balancing Tings
Mono Black Control
Tight Sight
Teen Girl Squad
ErnieGeddon
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Klep
OMG I'M KLEP!
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 08:52:28 am » |
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Battle of Wits
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So I suppose I should take The Fringe back out of my sig now...
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Bibendum
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Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 02:53:11 pm » |
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Parfait
Fruity Pebbles
Prosbloom
Astral Slide
10 land stompy
I think thats the best representation of the vintage meta these days
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The Going Get Tough, The Tough Get Debt
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Yare
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Playing to win
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 10:30:22 pm » |
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Are you wanting established archetypes or just decks that are Vintage legal?
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ELD
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Eric Dupuis
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 07:42:14 am » |
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13 Match wins is a lot. You could end up playing for 24 hours straight  I'd go with: Dredge Gush Storm MUD Tezzeret Fish |
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madmanmike25
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Lord Humungus, Ruler of the Wasteland
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 07:55:00 am » |
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1. A MUD variant OR UbaStax OR 5c Stax
2. Dredge
3. Oath
4. A blue deck with Mana Drain and/or Gush, Jace, Key+Vault, Tinker etc. Basically the other non-Oath blue decks.
5. A roguish deck or one that just sees little play. Belcher/ANT/Goblins/GW fish/Noble fish/Dark Times
These important cards should be included in the decks: Workshop, Bazaar, Oath, Dark Ritual, Mana Drain, Dark Confidant and maybe Null Rod.
To make things interesting, and time consuming, why not give each deck matchup the benefit of being on the play? That way you cant attribute a loss solely on losing the die roll. Just a thought. Can this 'tournament' span two days?
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Team Lowlander: There can be only a few...
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
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StanleyAugust
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 08:29:37 am » |
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13 Match wins is a lot. You could end up playing for 24 hours straight I'd go with: Dredge Gush Storm MUD Tezzeret Fish Probably this although I'm unsure as to whether Dredge should be in there or not. Theoretically it probably should, but if I were to participate in a challenge like this I'd rather leave out Dredge - it's simply just not fun to play with or against. Also MUD should be Metalworker MUD and then the Noble Fish deck will cover the Null Rod. |
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 12:49:35 pm » |
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BroodstarRunner
Oshawa Stompy
Highlander Keeper
Suicide Black
The Mountain Wins Again
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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BC
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 04:52:52 pm » |
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I think ELD's suggestions are fairly representative of the current metagame. It would be nice to also include Oath, but I don't know if there is anything close to a consensus Oath list at the moment.
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2011, 10:37:21 pm » |
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Oh come on, who doesn't want to read a report that features "fully powered" Tight Sight and Balancing Tings going head to head. After a while it would read like the diary of a man on the Oregon trail.
"Game 3, Day 17 - tired, hungry, considering eating my sideboard. My opponent resolves yet another Balancing Act, I think that makes six this game. But after days of monotonous bullshit who can say, every game looks like the last one. I can't believe I thought Moment's Peace was a win condition. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Anyway, Balancing Act does absolutely nothing since I just Second Sunrise everything back. Again. My opponent is visibly shaken, but that could just be scurvy setting in. I hate this so much."
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nataz
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Mighty Mighty Maine-Tone
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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2011, 10:34:38 am » |
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Oh come on, who doesn't want to read a report that features "fully powered" Tight Sight and Balancing Tings going head to head. After a while it would read like the diary of a man on the Oregon trail.
"Game 3, Day 17 - tired, hungry, considering eating my sideboard. My opponent resolves yet another Balancing Act, I think that makes six this game. But after days of monotonous bullshit who can say, every game looks like the last one. I can't believe I thought Moment's Peace was a win condition. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Anyway, Balancing Act does absolutely nothing since I just Second Sunrise everything back. Again. My opponent is visibly shaken, but that could just be scurvy setting in. I hate this so much."
hilarious |
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I will write Peace on your wings
and you will fly around the world
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Delha
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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2011, 02:15:15 pm » |
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That sounds like it could totally be the next Desert Bus for Hope.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself. |
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vroman
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2011, 03:38:24 pm » |
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the tournament is certainly not intended to be run in one sitting. also the point is not to decide what is the best deck, its who is the best player, so die rolls should either even out or we just alternate each match.
thanks for input thus far.
I think this is prob what I want in abstract
workshop
ritual
drain
gush
fish
This leaves out dredge and oath, but dredge vs field is more a sideboarding crapshoot than a skilltesting experiment. also I was under the impression oath was barely played anymore.
Eliminating dredge from the tournament makes sideboards simpler, but that might make it too unrealistic. I could go either way. I assume Gush gets the bump if dredge joins the lineup.
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« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 03:42:52 pm by vroman »
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Unrestrict: Flash, Burning Wish Restore and restrict: Transmute Artifact, Abeyance, Mox Diamond, Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins, Shahrazad Kill: Time Vault I say things http://unpopularideasclub.blogspot.com |
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honestabe
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How many more Unicorns must die???
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2011, 04:28:03 pm » |
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Why not just put dredge hate in the sideboards even though there won't be any dredge in the bet?
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As far as I can tell, the entire Vintage community is based on absolute statements
-Chris Pikula |
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Shax
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2011, 02:12:07 am » |
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To have more accurate metagame, maybe having...
MUD/Workshop Aggro
Gush deck
Drain deck
Dredge deck
Fish deck since it has actually topped recently; or another Drain or hybrid deck with Gush and or Oath(not play much is true). *imagination counts here, Trygon Tezz, Turbo Tezz, etc.
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Jesus Christ the King of Kings!
Vintage Changes: Unrestricted Ponder
Straight OG Ballin' shuffle em up tool cause you lookin' like mashed potatoes from my Tatergoyf. Hater whats a smurf? You lucksack? I OG. You make plays? I own deez. You win Tourneys? I buy locks. You double down? I triple up. Trojan Man? Latex. ClubGangster? I own it.Sexy mop? Wii U. Shax 4 President?
-Hypnotoa
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A_Outcast
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« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2011, 10:32:20 pm » |
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Why not just put dredge hate in the sideboards even though there won't be any dredge in the bet?
this would keep sideboards realistic and you dont have to worry about dredge. just tell him dredge will be one of the deck, let him build the sideboards, then say "suprise, no dredge" |
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... "OMGWTFElephantOnMyFace". |
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Mantis
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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2011, 04:34:59 am » |
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Shaymora
TPS
Jace/Confidant/Drain.dec
Slaver
Gush
5 blue decks, a true skilltester.
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2011, 08:13:26 am » |
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The top 4 from this tourney http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1436 seems like a promising start: 1. Bob "blue" that's too control heavy. 2. A poor build of Goblins (no Mox Ruby?!?) 3. Grim Long 4. Forgemaster MUD (7. Dredge) |
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honestabe
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How many more Unicorns must die???
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2011, 09:48:30 am » |
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Mox Ruby is definitely there, and can you honestly say Goblins is a major part of Vintage, not now, but ever?
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As far as I can tell, the entire Vintage community is based on absolute statements
-Chris Pikula |
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2011, 12:45:05 pm » |
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Oops, that's a Mox. Good catch.
My understanding is that the decks are being chosen to compare relative skill levels. All four of those decks are heavily slanted towards tutoring and require a good knowledge of mulliganning. While not particularly representative, I think they're reasonable.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2011, 01:19:46 pm » |
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This leaves out dredge and oath, but dredge vs field is more a sideboarding crapshoot than a skilltesting experiment..
I actually completely disagree with this. The skill in sideboarding decisions (what to bring in and, more importantly, what to bring out). and post-game game decisions is actually huge. Post-board dredge games are actually very skill intensive. What to name with Cabal Therapy, etc, are hugely skill intensvie. |
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