Sullivan Solution

[Wildthing]

I have been trying to play fish for some months, after trying some different builds (UR, URB, UGB, etc., I felt that the raw power of these decks was insufficient. Toying around with confidant-based builds an old deck came to my mind.

The deck is Sullivan Solution which was played circa 2006. I am sure it needs some modifications from its original form especially for the MUD and oath matchup but against gush decks I thinks it has a favourable matchup

I would start off with what I think is the skeleton of the deck:

//Lands (17)
6 feches
4 underground
1 island
1 swamp
4 wasteland
1 strip mine

//Artifacts (8)
5 moxes
1 lotus
1 petal
1 engineered explosives

//Creatures (11)
4 Dark confidant
4 Dimir cutpurse
3 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

//Counters and disruption (11)
4 Force of will
3 Stifle
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize

//Others and restricted stuff (5)
1 Ancestral recall
1 Time walk
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Mystical tutor
1 Brainstorm

That leaves 8 open slots for discussion. There are many candidates for filling up these slots, probably 2 hurkly's recalls, 2 repeals and 1 top would be on top of them.

During my initial testing I encountered difficulties with trygon predators and other X/3 blockers of dimir cutpurses, brown decks seem also difficult to beat pre-board. Do you guys think dimir cutpurses are viable nowadays?

On the other hand, Erayo has proven to be amazing for me, especially coupled with wastelands and stifles to limit mana development. I think the card has some serious potential and has not been played very much.

I would welcome any inputs from anyone who has been familiar with the deck on how could we do to revamp it.

[Mr. Type 4]

Dimir Cutpurse was in the deck to generate a soft-lock when combined with Erayo.  It might be antiquated by today's standards - when this was originally played, most decks had very few creatures.  Nowadays decks play a lot more dudes, especially Shop.  Shop decks used to be a lot worse before Lodestone.Cutpurse costs a lot of mana, and being 2 colors makes it feel like it costs more.  Hypnotic Spector would have a similar effect, but really isnt so much better, and is actually worse when it comes to drawing cards or pitching to FOW.

Is there a 2 drop that makes people discard a card when it hits?  The 2 drop Nightmare guy from torment that steals a card from hand wouldnt be awful.  also Tidehollow Sculler, which would put you into a 3rd color, but that could be worth it if you have trouble with dudes like Trygon - you could add a STP or two. 

Consider playing cards like Mox Opal to help Flip erayo faster. 

Consider playing Aether Vial to help push creatures in tru Shop effects.  Might be a bit slow to cast 3 drops, tho.

[Daenyth]

I have a list that's somewhat similar and I don't think you want more than 2 cutpurse. It also had a problem with x/3 creatures. I haven't solved it yet.

Tidehollow is amazing, especially when combined with Meddling Mage + Duress, but it makes the color requirements too severe IMO.

Here's my (mostly awful) list. I do not like sensei's top because the mana is tight already and the tempo loss is painful. When the deck goes well it's pretty brutal but it lacks punch.

I think this copy is outdated. I'll check on my main computer to see what changes I've made since.

3 Duress
4 Dark Confidant
4 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Preordain
3 Stifle
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Dimir Cutpurse
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Meddling Mage
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
2 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Thoughtseize
2 Vindicate
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 4 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 4 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Plains

[meadbert]

Jace seems strong with Cutpurse since you can bounce their creature to get a swing in and potentially make them discard it.

Demonic seems like an auto include.

I usually like Imperial Seal since SS frequently needs answers to threats.

Yawg Will is a strong consideration, but is probably weaker without Brainstorm.

Dreadnoughts interact well with Stifle.

I have a friend who ran SS with maindeck Planar Void and that one card was a HUGE pain when I was playing Dredge.  Without Brainstorms it is probably weaker since you cannot shuffle it back as easily in matchups where you do not want it, but Planar Void is 100% 1-sided if you are not running Yawg.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Consider running Trinket Mage since it can search up Dreadnought.

Also, a lot has changed since SS was mainstream playable.  You need to ask yourself what this deck does that MUD doesn't do better.  I can only think of one thing: support FoW.

[Wildthing]

I do believe that including a 3rd color would bring more problems than solutions, adding problems of inconsistency to an already light mana base.
My view is to make the deck as redundant as possible. I would only consider hypnotic as superior to dimir if I were running 3/4 dark rituals to cast them easier. That would lead to a build with tendrils, yawgmoths will, demonic tutor, necropotence and potentially hymn to tourach. I do not know if that would make the deck better.

I would not play vial in a deck with only 11 creatures (4 of them cc=3). To support vials the deck should go to a more fishy direction in my opinion. Also I have not had any problems flipping Erayo with current mana curve.

Demonic and jace seem like nice additions in the 8 slots proposed.

Having so many 4 offs and not depending on yawg will, demonic consultation could also be a nice fit (I prefer it to imperial seal)

Dreadnoughts synergize well with the deck but could damage control matchups. I would include them in the sideboard against fish, dredge and MUD for the moment.

Here are the two proposals:

//8 slots (Option 1)
2 Jaces
2 Hurkly's recall
1 Repeal
1 Demonic tutor
1 Sensei's diving top
1 Vendillion clique / Stifle (for sideboard dreadnoughts primarily) / Thoughtseize / Demonic consultation / Sower of temptation

//9 slots (Option 2)
(swapping 4 dimirs for 3 hypnotics)
3 Dark ritual
2 Hurkly's recall
1 Yawgmoths will
1 Demonic tutor
1 Tendrils of agony
1 Necropotence

Also for the sideboard I have thought something along these lines:
//Sideboard
4 Steel sabotage
4 Planar void
3 Phyrexian dreadnought
2 Mental missted (to protect against ReBs, duress and creature removal)
1 Extirpate
1 Energy flux (??) / sower of temptation

[AmbivalentDuck]

Dreadnoughts synergize well with the deck but could damage control matchups.

How?

[Wildthing]

I think the deck is more close to a fish deck than it is to MUD. For me its main advantage vs. other fish is being able to flip an Erayo on 1st turn

Dreadnoughts synergize well with the deck but could damage control matchups.

Synergize well because you widen the applications of stifle and have a clock in matchups where you need it

Damage control mathcups because it is card disadvantage and vulnerability to hurklys recall / ancient grudge that most players pack

[AmbivalentDuck]

In other words, you don't think that control players want to board out their Hurkyl's Recall and Grudges against you?

[Wildthing]

Sure, I was talking about damaging the control matchup pre-side (when they already play with these cards)

[TopSecret]

I think playing a maindeck Edict to tutor for could be very strong.

[Wagner]

Is there a 2 drop that makes people discard a card when it hits?

Headhunter in black and Riptide Pilferer in blue.

[Wildthing]

I don't think headhunter or pilferer are strong considerations for this deck, they do not improve any of the weakest matchups (if at least discarting was random...)

After playing some games with the deck I am quite happy with current version which is very stable. I had some problems with bob damage so I cut the 2nd maindeck jace.

I really like demonic consultation in this deck, i has been golden in finding duress, fow, stifle or confidant. Maindeck edict has also proved very strong vs. inkwell leviathan and other tinker targets and also provides additional answers against MUD and fish creatures.

I wanted to have 1 dreadnought in the maindeck in case I need a quick win condition or for tutoring purposes against creature based decks. I would add another in the 3rd dimir slot if I expect lots of fish and Mud.

Yawgmoths will is a potential sideboard consideration at the moment.

//Lands (17)
6 feches
4 underground
1 island
1 swamp
4 wasteland
1 strip mine

//Artifacts (8)
5 moxes
1 lotus
1 petal
1 engineered explosives

//Creatures (11)
4 Dark confidant
3 Dimir cutpurse
3 Erayo, Soratami ascendant
1 Phyrexian dreadnought

//Counters and disruption (12)
4 Force of will
4 Stifle
4 Duress

//Tutors and restricted stuff (7)
1 Ancestral recall
1 Time walk
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Mystical tutor
1 Demonic tutor
1 Demonic consultation
1 Brainstorm

// Rest (5)
2 Hurklys recall
1 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Repeal

// Sideboard (15)
4 Steel sabotage
4 Planar void
3 Phyrexian dreadnought
2 Mental misstep
1 Dismember
1 Extirpate

I want to test non-control matches in the forthcoming days, and improve my playskill with the deck. Will come up with results

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

In other words, you don't think that control players want to board out their Hurkyl's Recall and Grudges against you?

If I smell a dreadnought, I'm definitely keeping in a grudge.
Even if I don't think a naught is coming,  It's got bobs and dudes. It should be running either time vault or null rod. People do the right thing for the wrong reason a lot.

[serracollector]

Gitaxin Probe and Cabal Therapy are also very good when trying to flip Eryao, and in general as a Discard outlet before you get Dimir online.  As far as MUD we got steel sabotage now.  As for trygon, and MUD, wouldn't running a Dismember or 2 answer this, as well as giving you that extra turn vs BSC?  Just my thoughts.