Black stax -- Blax?

[xerent]

Greetings.

I've been pondering a possibly (mono-)black variant of stax. To me, it seems like the synergy between Smokestack, Bitterblossom and Bloodghast is too good to pass up. Braids is a smokestack on legs and with Wastelands/Crucible, you'd be cleaning the board very fast. However, Bitterblossom and Bloodghast hardly do anything on their own. Should I just forget about this whole thing, or move it to legacy, where cards like Dark Ritual, Phyrexian Obliterator and The Abyss might actually be useful?

best regards, xerent

[Mr. Type 4]

I've played against Blax (we def called it Blax) a long time ago, back when the first Mirrodin block was current.

Originally the idea was mostly to get Braids in there.  there's probably a lot more good stuff that goes in there nowadays.  I;d say go for it.

[WhiteWolf]

Hello

a few years ago I started a thread about black stax: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31858.0

I bet they printed a lot of useful cards in the meantime.

Don't forget about Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Pit and especially Nether Void.

[madmanmike25]

The inclusion of Bloodghast (in addition to Bitterblossom) seems like enough support for Gate to Phyrexia which should be solid in todays meta.

[serracollector]

Also don't forget you can use the almighty skullclamp with bloodghast and Bitterblossom.

Do you have a proposed decklist we could see, or is this just an idea in the making?

[gold eyes]

i have played mono black stax in legacy in the past so some of this should transfer over nether void is the nuts and ups the amount of 3 spheres you can run, when playing legacy the basic concept for my deck was either throw out an early stax effect( ran 8) or get out a 3 sphere (ran 6, 4 trini and 2 nethervoid). skull clamp is quite strong but i think it starts to take away from the stax concept because chalice at 1 is super strong and what lock peices do you take out for it, im not saying blossem and bloodghast dont belong im just saying it might be tough to fit them in and still have all the lock peices you want, hope this helped

[xerent]

Also don't forget you can use the almighty skullclamp with bloodghast and Bitterblossom.

Do you have a proposed decklist we could see, or is this just an idea in the making?

This is an idea in the making. I had some initial list suggestions, but I don't want to spoil the great brainstorming session we have going here. I'd love to see some kind of list grow out of it.

Here are my thoughts regarding the cards I'm now considering.

Blax cards:

• Braids, Cabal Minion is a smokestack on legs but is legendary, so probably not a four-of. Plays well with Thorn of Amethyst. She costs four and receives no love from workshops.
• Bloodghast is a creature so plays well with Thorn of Amethyst. With crucible of worlds, you can sacrifice this guy over and over (also to Gate to Phyrexia). On its own just a meaningless creature.
• Bitterblossom gives you a new permanent each turn, so works with Smokestack/Braids as-is and can help get the lock in place quickly. Pretty cheap. Can be sacrificed when you have other lock pieces, because you're taking the one damage every turn.
• Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth – of course we want this one. Probably 2 or 3. It is, however, legendary.
• Cabal Pit I'm not so sure about. It kills small creatures sometimes, but mostly it'll just be worse than Underground River? I don't feel it'll ever be as good as Barbarian Ring in a monored build with Bazaars.
• Gate to Phyrexia works with Bloodghast and Bitterblossom, but costs double black and only targets artifacts. It doesn't do anything on its own so feels like a dead card.
• Dark Ritual is black mana fast but is probably a dead card unless you find it in your opening hand.
• Soul Net could be a singleton card. With Bitterblossoms and Cabal Pits (and possibly Dark Confidant), you'll be taking lots of damage.
• Dark Confidant is good, but I don't think he makes the cut.
• Chrome Mox could be a source of black mana if you run enough of black cards. With so few lands, you don't want to run Mox Diamond, that's for sure.
• Innocent Blood is a good sideboard card, and so is Sinkhole
• Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy I'm unsure about. I'd like to run them, but maybe the slots just aren't there.
• The Abyss would probably work better in a legacy build.
• Nether Void is brutal, but costs four and isn't an artifact. I'd say try two of them, possibly three.
• Chains of Mephistopheles probably works better in another deck?

Classic stax cards in a Blax setting:

• Sphere of Resistance is probably not a good idea in this deck. Thorn of Amethyst is probably much better, because we'll be casting some creatures.
• Bazaar of Baghdad could work with Bloodghast, Wastelands and what not. With the Tomb it is also a swamp, but I think we need more black mana in these slots.
• Chalice of the Void with X=0 or X=1. The only black card with CMC 1 is Dark Ritual. Auto-include 4x.
• Mana Vault, Mana Crypt are broken but perhaps Chrome Mox is the better choice.
• Crucible of Worlds - centerpieces. Three or four, no less.
• Wasteland - four, obviously.
• Strip Mine - yes.
• Trinisphere, why not.

Everything can't fit into the small 60-slot container. Probably I would run two-three Bitterblossoms and two Bloodghasts. Opinions?   [/list]

[Onslaught]

I've been playing this on MWS every now and then over the last few years without ever updating it, so it's well overdue for a tuneup. I forget where I even got the list in the first place, because I don't remember making it. Maybe it will give you some kind of starting point though (Gate to Phyrexia was sick even with just blowing away your own Confidant or animating Factory and looping it with Crucible, so I can't even imagine how good it is with Bloodghast). I remember when I thought Chains of Mephistopheles was good in Blax, but tapping Bazaars for black with Urborg out is sick (not to mention Bazaar lets you run 4 Urborg more smoothly). So a starting point would be to take Chains and other stuff to add Bazaars. Braids is my favorite card ever printed but she doesn't really cut it here, I just run one and even that may be too many.


// NAME: Blax

// Lands
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Mishra's Factory
    3  Cabal Pit
    3  Wasteland
    1  Tomb of Urami
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 [DDC] Swamp

// Creatures
    1  Braids, Cabal Minion
    4  Dark Confidant

// Spells
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Imperial Seal
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1 [DDC] Demonic Tutor
    3  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Sickening Dreams
    3  Chains of Mephistopheles
    3  Nether Void
    4  Chalice of the Void
    1  Trinisphere
    3  Tangle Wire
    4  Smokestack
    1  Mana Crypt

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Sickening Dreams
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 3  Mind Twist
SB: 3  Maze of Ith
SB: 3  Gate to Phyrexia

[xerent]

Here's a draft:

1   Black Lotus            
1   Mox Jet            
4   Mishra's Workshop            
1   Sol Ring            
1   Mana Crypt            
2   Chrome Mox            
4   Wasteland            
1   Strip Mine            
4   Cabal Pit            
2   Swamp            
2   Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth            
               
            23    mana sources
               
1   Trinisphere            
3   Smokestack            
4   Chalice of the Void            
4   Thorn of Amethyst            
3   Tangle Wire            
3   Crucible of Worlds            
            18    stax cards
2   Braids, Cabal Minion            
3   Nether Void            
3   Bloodghast            
3   Bitterblossom            
3   Chains of Mephistopheles            
1   Yawgmoth's Will            
1   Demonic Tutor            
1   Vampiric Tutor            
1   Gate to Phyrexia            
1   Damnation            
            19    blax cards
               
            60    in total
SB:               
4   Leyline of the Void            
1   Helm of Obedience            
1   Innocent Blood            
1   Damnation            
1   Skeletal Scrying            
4   Yixlid Jailer            
2   Gate to Phyrexia            
1   Mind Twist            
            15    sideboard cards

What's wrong with this? I like to believe I'm good at building decks, but ... 

[LotusHead]

Sundial of the Infinite (or whatever from M12) lets you end your turn for 1.
Might be good with Smokestack/Brainds idea.

[Wagner]

I remember some Blax playing Phyrexian Totem as extra mana early game and as a quick finisher once you start to lock the game. Much faster clock than Blossom and Ghast.

[LotusHead]

Here's my list for Braids Stax.  The only new tech is Solemn Simulacrum, 2 Sundial of the Infinite, and random Spine of Ish Sah (to combo with smokestack/braids plus it deals with something if you have nothing going on).
I would love to fit in Wellsprings (either) and goblin welder, but I don't own Badlands, so I'm sticking with mono black for now.

Is there anything obvious I am missing? VT? Bob?



// Lands
    1  Ghost Quarter
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    3  Wasteland
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    6  Swamp

// Creatures
    4  Lodestone Golem
    4  Phyrexian Metamorph
    4  Solemn Simulacrum
    3  Braids, Cabal Minion
    4  Bloodghast

// Spells
    2  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Smokestack
    3  Thorn of Amethyst
    4  Tangle Wire
    2  Sundial of the Infinite
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Sol Ring
    1 [BIN] Mana Crypt
    1  Spine of Ish Sah
    1  Demonic Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 3  Chalice of the Void
SB: 3  Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4  Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4  Pithing Needle

[potato]

Here's my list for Braids Stax.  The only new tech is Solemn Simulacrum, 2 Sundial of the Infinite, and random Spine of Ish Sah (to combo with smokestack/braids plus it deals with something if you have nothing going on).
I would love to fit in Wellsprings (either) and goblin welder, but I don't own Badlands, so I'm sticking with mono black for now.

Is there anything obvious I am missing? VT? Bob?



// Lands
    1  Ghost Quarter
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    3  Wasteland
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    6  Swamp

// Creatures
    4  Lodestone Golem
    4  Phyrexian Metamorph
    4  Solemn Simulacrum
    3  Braids, Cabal Minion
    4  Bloodghast

// Spells
    2  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Smokestack
    3  Thorn of Amethyst
    4  Tangle Wire
    2  Sundial of the Infinite
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Sol Ring
    1 [BIN] Mana Crypt
    1  Spine of Ish Sah
    1  Demonic Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 3  Chalice of the Void
SB: 3  Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4  Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4  Pithing Needle

I feel like this deck would be improved with 1 Bazaar of Baghdad to go with your bloodghasts.

Also, against Dredge you could use some sweet black hate like Yixlid Jailer or Planar Void if you don't mind losing the bloodghast synergy. Worth considering maybe?

[Wagner]

No Lotus?

Not even a single Fetch?

why 1 Ghost Quarter but only 3 Waste?

Also, wouldn't Demonic Consultation be good in that list? You have a lot of 3-4 of.

[LotusHead]

No Lotus?

Not even a single Fetch?

why 1 Ghost Quarter but only 3 Waste?

Also, wouldn't Demonic Consultation be good in that list? You have a lot of 3-4 of.

A single fetch is definatly a possibility. GQ plust 3 waste 1 strip has been fine. 4th waste isn't neccessarily better than 1st ghost quarter.

I don't own a lotus anymore, so it's not always neccessary in non-yawg will list.  There was debate on Lotusless Shop decks last year, and 6th swamp does get around chalice for 0 (and help get braids online.

I haven't tested this much on MWS and don't have it sleeved up for IRL testing, so I haven't worked the kinks out. I do want Braids in my smokestack deck tho! and Sundial of the Infinite is just that excuse. Just haven't gotten it in play yet.

[vaughnbros]

Spine of Ish Sah seems bad to me a 7 drop that doesnt even have a chance to win you the game doesnt really seem worth it.  If you want something that goes well with smokestack and braids try Thopter Assembly, 1 mana less and it and its tokens can attack with evasion.   with 12 black sources (including Solemns) it seems like casting a Braids would be difficult, and with no discard outlets bloodghast seems almost pointless, i mean a recurring 2/1 that cant block is good but when the earliest youll probably be dropping it is turn 3, it doesnt really seem worth it unless you plan on adding bazaars and a 3rd crucible, and probably some cabal pits instead of swamps.  The only other thing that i dont like is that your Chalice of the Voids are in your sideboard and you only have 3 of them.  From my experience this is the best card in stax.  Not only can you drop it at 0 and now your opponent cant use their power which is important when your relying on smokestack to win, but more importantly you can drop it 1 which shuts off half of a blue players library.

[Twaun007]

Is there anything obvious I am missing? VT? Bob?.........

// Lands
    1  Ghost Quarter
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    3  Wasteland
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    6  Swamp

// Creatures
    4  Lodestone Golem
    4  Phyrexian Metamorph
    4  Solemn Simulacrum
    3  Braids, Cabal Minion
    4  Bloodghast

// Spells
    2  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Smokestack
    3  Thorn of Amethyst
    4  Tangle Wire
    2  Sundial of the Infinite
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Sol Ring
    1 [BIN] Mana Crypt
    1  Spine of Ish Sah
    1  Demonic Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 3  Chalice of the Void
SB: 3  Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4  Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4  Pithing Needle

This list seems to be all over the place with Braids, Lodestone's, and Bloodghasts....

I would take time to reflect and find out what you're trying to accomplish with the deck? Are you building a workshop prison deck that splashed for black or are you trying to build a mono black deck that splashes Lodestone Golems/Smokestacks?

If you're playing black I would immediately include quad lazer Dark Confidant.

If I were to tinker with a monoblack workshop prison deck I'd probably start off with something like this....


4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Cabal Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
5 Swamp
2 Bloodstain Mire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
2 Phrexian Totem

4 Dark Confidant
2 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Lodestone Golem

2 Smokestack
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Duress
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sensie's Divining Top

This leaves 10 cards for you to full around with pending on where you want to take the deck.

I'd probably get cute and go for something like this...

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Time Vault
2 Voltaic Key
4 Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst, Thoughtsieze

I like the concept of attacking your opponents mana base and hand instead of trying to snuff them out with Sphere effects.

[xerent]

A potential Blax card was spoiled the other day:

Heartless Summoning  
Enchantment
Creature spells you cast cost   less to cast.
Creatures you control get -1/-1.

There has to be some way a black workshop deck can utilize this card.