Screw Sphere of Resistance! Workshop Aggro at its Finest

[yespuhyren]

Start a new thread for your list and post reasons for your choices, playtesting results, and the like and you’ll have a way better chance at getting feedback.  Posting it in here isn’t going to do that much.

Also, List Update as of June:

4x Mishra’s Workshop
4x Mishra’s Factory
4x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy

1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault

4x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Precursor Golem
4x Wurmcoil Engine

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Tangle Wire
3x Null Rod
1x Trinisphere

[msg67183]

Why are you running null rod with all these creature decks running around? Also precursor has lost its luster to me because of all the creature removal running around.

[yespuhyren]

What creature decks running around?  Are you playing in my metagame too?  If your metagame has a lot of aggro and you’re netdecking my list, then you should be changing the cards to fit your metagame.  My area has forgemasters and Time Vaults.  Oh yeah.  And it doesn’t hit a single creature non mana permanent in my maindeck.

This whole precursor argument is so weak as you only need one on the board to have a threat.  If you play forgemaster and they hit it with a removal spell, it dies too.  This is true shop aggro that tries to hurt the opponent as much as possible without affecting itself.  Same reason there’s no sphere.  This just needs to disrupt and smash face.

[Samoht]

I find your lack of Steel Hellkite disturbing.

[yespuhyren]

There’s 3 in the board and you can easily replace 1-2 Precursor and 1-2 Wurmcoil for 2-4 Hellkite

[Samoht]

There’s 3 in the board and you can easily replace 1-2 Precursor and 1-2 Wurmcoil for 2-4 Hellkite

1) You didn't post a SB.

2) Hellkite is better in almost every match up than Wurmcoil/Precursor.

[msg67183]

Here is my most recent list that I will be playing when I can get to a tournament sometime:

"Dirt and Water"

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
1 City of Traitors
Strip Mine
Tolarian Academy
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl

4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Trinisphere

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Porcelain Legionnare
4 Wurmcoil Engine

Sideboard:

4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Precursor Golem
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 City of Traitors

My Sideboarding plan goes as follows:

Dredge:
-4 Tangle Wire
-4 Phyrexian Revoker
-4 Chalice of the Void
+4 Grafdigger's Cage
+4 Precursor Golem
+3 Tormod's Crypt
+ City of Traitors

I bring in Precursor Golems because they are such a beating against dredge and they increase your clock which you need against them. The City of Traitors comes in also because my mana curve goes up. Chalice of the Void comes out due to the lack of use it has, if I play chalice at 1 then I shut off my cages.

Fish:

-4 Thorn of Amethyst
-4 Tangle Wire
+4 Precursor Golem
+3 Crucible of Worlds
+ City of Traitors

I take out Thorn of Amethyst because it has very little use against Fish. Tangle Wires are only really great against Fish if I were playing Smokestack or other cards of that sort. I bring in what I bring in for the same reasons, and the Crucible of Worlds are to prevent myself from being mana screwed.

Oath:

-4 Porcelain Legionnare
+4 Grafdigger's Cage

This one was a tough one. I was deciding between Porcelain Legionnare and Phyrexian Revoker but then came to the conclusion that I can name the "only oath creature" now, Griselbrand. Grafdigger's Cages coming in is common sense.

Landstill:

-4 Porcelain Legionnare
+3 Crucible of Worlds
+ City of Traitors

Porcelain Legionnares seem to be the weakest card here since Phyrexian Revoker can name Jace, the Mindsculptor, one of the decks few win cons. The cards that come in prevent the mana screw that Landstill tries to preform.

Shops:
(play)

-4 Thorn of Amethyst
-4 Tangle Wire
+4 Precursor Golem
+3 Crucible of Worlds
+ City of Traitors

On the play I keep Chalice of the Void in to attempt to play it for 0 on turn 1. The cards brought in explain themselves.

(draw)

-4 Chalice of the Void
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
-2 Tangle Wire
- Trinisphere
+ Everything on play
+3 Tormod's Crypt

On the draw Chalice of the Void is really useless. I keep 2 Tangle Wires in because they might save me, more than any of the other cards I take out. I bring in Tormod's Crypts to answer my Opponent's graveyard to prevent a strip lock against me.

Against other decks I tend to not sideboard.

As for my card choices, Phyrexian Revoker NEEDS to be main decked, it has too many uses not to be.
Porcelain Legionnare is an amazing card against Shops and Fish as well as Dredge, a 3/1 with First Strike for 2 mana and 2 Life is amazing. As you can see he does come out against a few decks, where I dont need to simply attack.

Well let me know what you think. And if you have any questions, simply ask.

[msg67183]

It has been quite a while since I or anybody else for that matter has said anything on this forum, but here is what I think has changed about this Workshop Aggro deck, at least from my personal list:

I have added 4 Batterskull:

The card is simply an all star! The ability to dodge removal and to equip to make any of your guys a monstrous life linking beast is absolutely insane! Batterskull along side of Wurmcoil Engine makes any matchup that involves the opponent trying to kill you through damage near unloseable.

I have been debating removing Tangle Wire:

Tangle Wire has lost a bit of luster with Young Pyromancer going up in playability as well as a ton of creatures seeing play. I'm not sure yet if it is getting the Axe or not yet, but if it does, the cards I have considered to take its place:

Steel Hellkite:

He is big, he flies, and he board wipes, seems pretty strong to me! Very powerful when equipped with Batterskull.

Arcbound Ravager:

Dodges removal, and is especially nice with Wurmcoil Engine.

My current list looks like this:

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 City of Traitors
Tolarian Academy
Strip Mine
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Batterskull

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
Trinisphere

Sideboard:

4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ghost Quarter

[cutlex]

What rough matches do you have? I've been playing a deck that's much more hyper focused than this, but I've been running into issues against Landstill and Burning Oath. Do you run into these decks much?

[msg67183]

When I play against Landstill I kinda laugh inside, idk about you but Landstill is easy for me. Burning Long isn't played much but when I do play against it it's not that bad, the life gain from my guys makes their storm for tendrils not that much of a problem.

[nataz]

I don't understand how you are constantly beating landstill while also being okay with taking out wire. Wire always felt like an all-star against drain/counter heavy decks, often allowing the ws aggro player a window to drop a huge threat under their counter wall.

Can you unpack that match up a little more for me? What do you think are the key cards against landstill, and what do you think are their biggest threats against you? I'm surprised to hear that landstill is an easy match up for you.

[msg67183]

Now I haven't played against Landstill in a while but from memory:

Key cards:

Revoker: Name Jace, or prevent Jace by naming accel,
Or name EE if needed

Wurmcoil Engine: Gaining 6 a turn is a blowout

Batterskull: See Wurmcoil Engine

Mishra's Factory: uncounterable way to beat Jace

Lodestone / Thorn: not too much explanation needed

Post board:

Crucible of Worlds: self explanatory

From what I recall I have never lost a match against Landstill while I played Workshops.

[cutlex]

If you're connecting with Wurmcoil, you're winning the game. How do you get to that point? Between their mana denial, counter packages and 4xJace.

[msg67183]

I have literally no blanks against Landstill. Wurmcoil if played early, will most likely win the game by himself. Landstill is a deck that needs time to develop a game, a 6 power creature that gains me 6 life per swing is going to prevent that. I already said how many cards I have to combat Landstill in my list.

[Prospero]

If you're going to advocate a list, and you're going to claim that it's dominant against a tier one deck, you're going to need to do a better job explaining than you have.  This is not acceptable:

Now I haven't played against Landstill in a while but from memory:

Key cards:

Revoker: Name Jace, or prevent Jace by naming accel,
Or name EE if needed

Wurmcoil Engine: Gaining 6 a turn is a blowout

Batterskull: See Wurmcoil Engine

Mishra's Factory: uncounterable way to beat Jace

Lodestone / Thorn: not too much explanation needed

Post board:

Crucible of Worlds: self explanatory

From what I recall I have never lost a match against Landstill while I played Workshops.

There seems to be little value in this thread.  Either step up your game, or I'm going to lock it.

[msg67183]

I apologize, I just don't understand how people are having issues playing against Landstill with Workshops. I have never had issues with that matchup, and I am not very good at explaining things, I do apologize for that also.

[Samoht]

I apologize, I just don't understand how people are having issues playing against Landstill with Workshops. I have never had issues with that matchup, and I am not very good at explaining things, I do apologize for that also.

The match up is actually very favorable for the Landstill pilot. Assuming they are on Engineered Explosives, Ancient Grudge(SB), and Ingot Chewer(SB) they can sit behind their counter magic (much of which is cheap/free) and stop the threats deployed by the Shop player where they are least harmful. They can play their own Crucible to negate the resource denial that comes with Shop, and can even turn the game around on them with the Wastelands they bring to the table. Finally, once the hands are depleted they can drop Standstill to refill.

[StanleyAugust]

I apologize, I just don't understand how people are having issues playing against Landstill with Workshops. I have never had issues with that matchup, and I am not very good at explaining things, I do apologize for that also.

The match up is actually very favorable for the Landstill pilot. Assuming they are on Engineered Explosives, Ancient Grudge(SB), and Ingot Chewer(SB) they can sit behind their counter magic (much of which is cheap/free) and stop the threats deployed by the Shop player where they are least harmful. They can play their own Crucible to negate the resource denial that comes with Shop, and can even turn the game around on them with the Wastelands they bring to the table. Finally, once the hands are depleted they can drop Standstill to refill.

You mean the free/cheap counter magic that is Misdirection, Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm and Mental Misstep? The only cheap/free counter magic Landstill has at its disposal against MUD is Force of Will. That said, I think you're right about the match up, though I must admit that I haven't played much "Workshop Aggro", I tend to play more Stax'ish. G2 and G3 are definitely in Landstill's favor.

[Bibendum]

I apologize, I just don't understand how people are having issues playing against Landstill with Workshops. I have never had issues with that matchup, and I am not very good at explaining things, I do apologize for that also.

The match up is actually very favorable for the Landstill pilot. Assuming they are on Engineered Explosives, Ancient Grudge(SB), and Ingot Chewer(SB) they can sit behind their counter magic (much of which is cheap/free) and stop the threats deployed by the Shop player where they are least harmful. They can play their own Crucible to negate the resource denial that comes with Shop, and can even turn the game around on them with the Wastelands they bring to the table. Finally, once the hands are depleted they can drop Standstill to refill.

You mean the free/cheap counter magic that is Misdirection, Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm and Mental Misstep? The only cheap/free counter magic Landstill has at its disposal against MUD is Force of Will. That said, I think you're right about the match up, though I must admit that I haven't played much "Workshop Aggro", I tend to play more Stax'ish. G2 and G3 are definitely in Landstill's favor.

Steel Sabotage is huge here as well.

[Samoht]

I apologize, I just don't understand how people are having issues playing against Landstill with Workshops. I have never had issues with that matchup, and I am not very good at explaining things, I do apologize for that also.

The match up is actually very favorable for the Landstill pilot. Assuming they are on Engineered Explosives, Ancient Grudge(SB), and Ingot Chewer(SB) they can sit behind their counter magic (much of which is cheap/free) and stop the threats deployed by the Shop player where they are least harmful. They can play their own Crucible to negate the resource denial that comes with Shop, and can even turn the game around on them with the Wastelands they bring to the table. Finally, once the hands are depleted they can drop Standstill to refill.

You mean the free/cheap counter magic that is Misdirection, Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm and Mental Misstep? The only cheap/free counter magic Landstill has at its disposal against MUD is Force of Will. That said, I think you're right about the match up, though I must admit that I haven't played much "Workshop Aggro", I tend to play more Stax'ish. G2 and G3 are definitely in Landstill's favor.

Mindbreak Trap is amazing against Shops on the draw. It also handles Cavern which has fleshed out a niche in many lists. Sabotage is cheap. They also get to have Bolt for LSG, which while not a Counter in the strict sense of the word really only reads R: Destroy LSG in the match up.

[StanleyAugust]

I apologize, I just don't understand how people are having issues playing against Landstill with Workshops. I have never had issues with that matchup, and I am not very good at explaining things, I do apologize for that also.

The match up is actually very favorable for the Landstill pilot. Assuming they are on Engineered Explosives, Ancient Grudge(SB), and Ingot Chewer(SB) they can sit behind their counter magic (much of which is cheap/free) and stop the threats deployed by the Shop player where they are least harmful. They can play their own Crucible to negate the resource denial that comes with Shop, and can even turn the game around on them with the Wastelands they bring to the table. Finally, once the hands are depleted they can drop Standstill to refill.

You mean the free/cheap counter magic that is Misdirection, Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm and Mental Misstep? The only cheap/free counter magic Landstill has at its disposal against MUD is Force of Will. That said, I think you're right about the match up, though I must admit that I haven't played much "Workshop Aggro", I tend to play more Stax'ish. G2 and G3 are definitely in Landstill's favor.

Mindbreak Trap is amazing against Shops on the draw. It also handles Cavern which has fleshed out a niche in many lists. Sabotage is cheap. They also get to have Bolt for LSG, which while not a Counter in the strict sense of the word really only reads R: Destroy LSG in the match up.

Mindbreak Trap is not amazing. Occasionally it's good, but it can quite easily be played around and if it's not in your starting 7 it's definitely not amazing. Regarding Steel Sabotage, I quickly skimmed the last 10 T8's from U/R Landstill and none of them played Steel Sabotage either main or side.

[Samoht]

I apologize, I just don't understand how people are having issues playing against Landstill with Workshops. I have never had issues with that matchup, and I am not very good at explaining things, I do apologize for that also.

The match up is actually very favorable for the Landstill pilot. Assuming they are on Engineered Explosives, Ancient Grudge(SB), and Ingot Chewer(SB) they can sit behind their counter magic (much of which is cheap/free) and stop the threats deployed by the Shop player where they are least harmful. They can play their own Crucible to negate the resource denial that comes with Shop, and can even turn the game around on them with the Wastelands they bring to the table. Finally, once the hands are depleted they can drop Standstill to refill.

You mean the free/cheap counter magic that is Misdirection, Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm and Mental Misstep? The only cheap/free counter magic Landstill has at its disposal against MUD is Force of Will. That said, I think you're right about the match up, though I must admit that I haven't played much "Workshop Aggro", I tend to play more Stax'ish. G2 and G3 are definitely in Landstill's favor.

Mindbreak Trap is amazing against Shops on the draw. It also handles Cavern which has fleshed out a niche in many lists. Sabotage is cheap. They also get to have Bolt for LSG, which while not a Counter in the strict sense of the word really only reads R: Destroy LSG in the match up.

Mindbreak Trap is not amazing. Occasionally it's good, but it can quite easily be played around and if it's not in your starting 7 it's definitely not amazing. Regarding Steel Sabotage, I quickly skimmed the last 10 T8's from U/R Landstill and none of them played Steel Sabotage either main or side.

It pitches to FoW if necessary. If you are on Hurkyl's, it also get added value. That said I usually play Sabotage over Hurkyl's when I am on Landstill. I haven't been of late because I've been on other lists. In fact, the dearth of Landstill decks in general over the past few months is pretty interesting.

[vaughnbros]

The landstill versus shops match up really depends on the card choices in both lists since these are two pretty broad categories, being that they are archetypes and not individual deck lists.  Its typically a very intense battle of resources at every level, card advantage, permanents in play, and mana sources.  Having cards capable of winning each resource war (and a lack of dead cards) are extremely important in gaining an advantage in the match up.

Since my landstill builds typically lack a large number of dead cards, I personally have experienced a very high win percentage against workshops.  

Against decklists similar to the ones in this thread the top end of landstill's curve, Jace, is an absolute all star as they struggle to keep him off the table with their minimal mana denial.  His -1 is great for recovering from an unfavorable board state and his 0 generates overwhelming amounts of CA. From the shops side Wurmcoil's difficulty to destroy, and crucibles ability to generate CA are the most threatening cards.

[Kameli0n]

@ Gotshall - may I ask how much testing you have gotten in against landstill with this particular deck list that you have been able to determine that the list is so productive against landstill?

What particular landstill list do you particularly find the easiest matchup for you?

Also, could you let me know who the opponents were, so that I could discuss and inquire as to what their opinions were, or what they felt was most challenging about your particular build?

[msg67183]

From what i remember, i did say i havent played against it that much, I have played against UR Landstill, Esper Landstill, Grixis Landstill and UW Landstill The opponents I remember playing against was Bernie, Bill Sees, Keith Seals, Ryan Bergeman. I have played against Landstill with other decks so I'm not saying Landstill is a bad deck at all, I'm just saying when I have played against it with Aggro Shops, I haven't had problems.

[Kameli0n]

Who is Bernie?

[msg67183]

Not sure of his last name I remember playing against him at the Winter Grudge Match.