EST-Fish [With Edric, Spymaster of Trest]

[Guli]

For those who missed the spoiler:



My thoughts about this card are clear. This needs acceleration and free counters. This also needs disruptive creatures with evasion. So the next first attempt is pretty logical in the light of these thoughts.

13 Free Counters:
4x Force of Will
3x Summoning Trap
3x Mental Misstep
3x Daze

2 Bombs:
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk

17 Creatures:

4x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3x Vendilion Clique
3x Thada Adel, Acquisitor
3x Sower of Temptation
4x Trygon Predator

28 mana sources:
4x Island
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
2x Flooded Strand
4x Misty Rainforest

4x Elvish Spirit Guide (21 creatures)
3x Chrome mox
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Black Lotus

Looks fun to play honestly. But the goal is to improve it. Idea's?

[TopSecret]

So are you looking for a deck that is centered on dropping down some Edric and going to town?
Or a list that is interested in using Edric in addition to a strong core that doesn't fully commit to breaking him?

All of this said I think there's probably something better than Vault Skirge for a one drop in your deck, as much as I like the card.
If you're not interested in some of the more common one drop guys, maybe Elvish Scrapper?
Or if you want to really go for the gold, Trickster Mage can tap down guys, which is still decent if you start drawing lots of cards,
and it combos with Thada to make a one hit kill if you snag a Vault.

[Guli]

So are you looking for a deck that is centered on dropping down some Edric and going to town?
Or a list that is interested in using Edric in addition to a strong core that doesn't fully commit to breaking him?

All of this said I think there's probably something better than Vault Skirge for a one drop in your deck, as much as I like the card.
If you're not interested in some of the more common one drop guys, maybe Elvish Scrapper?
Or if you want to really go for the gold, Trickster Mage can tap down guys, which is still decent if you start drawing lots of cards,
and it combos with Thada to make a one hit kill if you snag a Vault.

Trickster Mage is nice in this deck concept man! Very nice.

[SadDubs]

we won't be able to say a thing about this deck without any testing. But right off the bat I'll say that it doesn't stand a chance against mud, so maybe try the elvish scrappers or maybe seal of primordium. Mental misstep doesn't seem that good as a 4 of main deck, it's useless vs shop, ichorid, and pretty weak against oath. I'd play them as a 3 of in combo and not much else, try daze, it seems better here. I think the issue with the deck is that you're relying on a legendary 3 drop creature to make you one drops good. The 7 one drops are bad on their own and edric is bad on his own. What do you do when someone drops a lodestone golem or a trygon predator? Hope you get a sower of temptation? What happens when they drop another one?

I must say I do like the concept of an all out aggro/rush/disruption beaters deck, but you lack the consistency of a steady flow of disruption, card advantage, and answers; something modern fish builds can barely even get right.

But I won't kill the concept. Try to find better one drops, maybe add another color, and don't rely on edric so much, he might be alot better as a stand alone bomb to just drop out of nowhere to turn your turn one and two drops into draw spells.

[Guli]

we won't be able to say a thing about this deck without any testing. But right off the bat I'll say that it doesn't stand a chance against mud, so maybe try the elvish scrappers or maybe seal of primordium. Mental misstep doesn't seem that good as a 4 of main deck, it's useless vs shop, ichorid, and pretty weak against oath. I'd play them as a 3 of in combo and not much else, try daze, it seems better here. I think the issue with the deck is that you're relying on a legendary 3 drop creature to make you one drops good. The 7 one drops are bad on their own and edric is bad on his own. What do you do when someone drops a lodestone golem or a trygon predator? Hope you get a sower of temptation? What happens when they drop another one?

I must say I do like the concept of an all out aggro/rush/disruption beaters deck, but you lack the consistency of a steady flow of disruption, card advantage, and answers; something modern fish builds can barely even get right.

But I won't kill the concept. Try to find better one drops, maybe add another color, and don't rely on edric so much, he might be alot better as a stand alone bomb to just drop out of nowhere to turn your turn one and two drops into draw spells.

I think almost everything you said is wrong. At least it contradicts my years of experience. I ll just answer one of your statements:
vs Mud:
- Strong mana base = good versus wastelands
- A lot of artifact acceleration = good versus spheres
- Force of Will = always good
- Thada is strong against Shop
- Vault Skirge is artifact and creature = good against Thorn and Golem
- Trickster Mage taps artifacts
- Trap = good vs chalice

That all being said, I can take your feedback into consideration and play a package of Hurkly's Recall/Steel Sabotage/Trygon Predator/Nature's Claim.

[SadDubs]

yeah, the changes makes the deck look alot better now. Im still not sure about the weak one drops though. Vault skirge may be good against thorn and golem as it doesn't end up costing you extra but its still a chump without edric. And the trickster mage requires you to constantly discard, which is painful without edric and when you run chrome mox, but not terrible I guess. Have you done any testing?

[Guli]

yeah, the changes makes the deck look alot better now. Im still not sure about the weak one drops though. Vault skirge may be good against thorn and golem as it doesn't end up costing you extra but its still a chump without edric. And the trickster mage requires you to constantly discard, which is painful without edric and when you run chrome mox, but not terrible I guess. Have you done any testing?

You know, maybe it would be better not to play with 1 drops at all. Look into the 2 drops and add some extra counters? See list

[SadDubs]

yeah, the changes makes the deck look alot better now. Im still not sure about the weak one drops though. Vault skirge may be good against thorn and golem as it doesn't end up costing you extra but its still a chump without edric. And the trickster mage requires you to constantly discard, which is painful without edric and when you run chrome mox, but not terrible I guess. Have you done any testing?

You know, maybe it would be better not to play with 1 drops at all. Look into the 2 drops and add some extra counters?

agreed, your accell makes it so that you won't have to rely on the one mana, one land paradigm. This may be absurd but maybe spiketail drakeling could work nicely. Chalice of the void also seems like a nice fit, and add in 1 or 2 of elvish spirit guide to boost your accell just a little bit further without sacrificing creature density. After she gets a whole lot better with eldric.

[Guli]

yeah, the changes makes the deck look alot better now. Im still not sure about the weak one drops though. Vault skirge may be good against thorn and golem as it doesn't end up costing you extra but its still a chump without edric. And the trickster mage requires you to constantly discard, which is painful without edric and when you run chrome mox, but not terrible I guess. Have you done any testing?

You know, maybe it would be better not to play with 1 drops at all. Look into the 2 drops and add some extra counters?

agreed, your accell makes it so that you won't have to rely on the one mana, one land paradigm. This may be absurd but maybe spiketail drakeling could work nicely. Chalice of the void also seems like a nice fit, and add in 1 or 2 of elvish spirit guide to boost your accell just a little bit further without sacrificing creature density. After she gets a whole lot better with eldric.

I think it is OK to make it straightforward without tutors/bounce/removal. Your creatures can remove threats on the board, in their hand, and in their deck. (Trygon/Sower, Clique/Spiketail, Thada)


- Thada can nab a Black Lotus to hardcast Summoning Trap (just had the satisfaction to do this on an online game).
- The creatures you cast are all so strong, countering is a must
- A lot of mana available and Force/Trap is superb

Will test Spiketails now.

[SadDubs]

I would keep edric as a 4 of because he really makes the deck tick. And as far as removal, I would run at least 3 of something simply because tinker bot and oath exist, and you won't always draw a sower in time.

[SadDubs]

is it too much to think that you can consistently cast 5 drops? If not then acidic slime may be a great all purpose beater that does mana denial with drakeling, enchant hate for oath, arti hate for shop and tezz, and creature hate for aggro. The acceleration level of this deck seems to be on par with tezzeret builds and they are casting 4 ofs and 5 ofs all day, even without mana drain.

Plus, summoning trap can get it out for free.

[serracollector]

// Lands
    4  Misty Rainforest
    1  Flooded Strand
    1  Scalding Tarn
    1 [MPR] Wasteland
    2  Forest
    1 [V09] Strip Mine
    1  Dryad Arbor
    3 [HOP] Island
    4  Tropical Island

// Creatures
    4  Edric, Spymaster of Trest
    4  Noble Hierarch
    2  Phyrexian Revoker
    2  Trygon Predator
    2  Viridian Shaman

// Spells
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Sapphire
    4  Spell Pierce
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Brainstorm
    2  Mental Misstep
    1  Regrowth
    2  Echoing Truth
    1  Time Walk
    4  Mana Leak
    2  Green Sun's Zenith
    4  Force of Will
    1  Misdirection

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2  Mental Misstep
SB: 2  Echoing Truth
SB: 2  Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1  Trygon Predator
SB: 1  Viridian Shaman
SB: 4  Energy Flux

This is my current Decklist using Edric.  The idea of my deck is to try and run its BBS style with 4 Force, 4 Pierce, 4 Mana Leak, 2 Mental Misstep, and 1 Misdirection maindeck (lots o counters)

At first I was testing Cloud of Fairies and Spellstutter Fairies.  Their flying, freeness, flash, and being a counter and a creature in 1 was very very nice, but some games, 1/1 flyers are just that....1/1 flyers 

Anyways, not saying mine is better or worse than your listing, but might give you some ideas to run in your deck.  BTW I would run Green Suns' Zenith all day long over Pact.  It can be cheaper (1 mana for arbor dryad, 2 for Noble Hierarch, and 4 for trygon/viridina shaman/Edric), and also puts it directly into play. 

ESG is a good idea tho, but not sure wat to drop for it.  I run less creatures, but I run way more counters, and once you have Edric + 1 or 2 creatures, thats all you need to stay ahead in the counter game.  Just my experiences testing it so far.  Good luck.

[SadDubs]

I'm guessing by your changes the Drakelings didn't work too well? I still think you need an alternative to mental misstep, daze seems better imo.

[Joblin Velder]

I dislike the Hierarchs. Exalted seems counterproductive with Spymaster around.

[Meddling Mike]

I dislike the Hierarchs. Exalted seems counterproductive with Spymaster around.

Recommended alternative? I agree that exalted isn't nearly as good as it had been with the same deck based around Selkie, but I can't think of much I would rather have. Birds of Paradise is no improvement, Llanowar Elf can attack for 1 with friends, but offers more restricted mana options.

[Guli]

I'm guessing by your changes the Drakelings didn't work too well? I still think you need an alternative to mental misstep, daze seems better imo.

Daze is really not so good with all the acceleration in the meta. If the deck would run Null Rod, I would understand Daze.

Seriously the deck is surprisingly good. Every creature you drop means business. I do believe Tinker would be good in this deck in the light of the green Traps. A couple of Tinker targets that are blue and some 1 misdirection. You never want untapped land or mana. You are flowing with this deck and dropping game changing creatures while countering for free.

Still, I will test Daze alongside the other free counters. Maybe you are right.

[SadDubs]

here are a number of other random card suggestions; seeing as this deck is quite unique and uses much more acceleration it is open to more unqiue inclusions.

Nest Invader: A possible alternative to elvish spirit guide that gives you both a creature and an accel piece, though probably a lot worse.

Garruk Wildspeaker: Makes tokens, accels mana, and can win races vs shop and even tinker. Maybe a possible sideboard inclusion

Back to Basics: Seeing as you play a more basic and accel heavy deck this could be decent, both as SB and MD inclusions.

Master of the Wild Hunt: I'm not sure if you can consistently cast him, but he allows for creature hate, big beats, and more card draw off eldrich. Seems also quite good against a creature heavy meta as both SB and MD possibilities.

Whirlpool Warrior: Very random, but food for thought nonetheless. He's easy to cast in your deck, he allows you to find an eldrich as soon as possible while offering a beater.

viridian Shaman: Easy to cast with accel, straight forward artifact hater while giving eldrich fuel for draws.

Viridian Zealot: Good hate for oath as well as shop and tezzeret, a beater/drawer when you don't need him; kind of evasive vs shop since you can just swing in with him and just sac him if they declare blocks.

Eladmiri Lord of Leaves: Probably jank but he offers protection and evasion to him and eldrich.

Water Front Bouncer: Answers a lot of things, is a beater, and works well with good card advantage.

Stonybrook Angler: Deals with tinker, oath, and aggro

Phyrexian Revoker: As mentioned before in serracollector's list, it's a creature that also disrupts a number of things.

Gaea's Herald: Self explanatory, not sure if this works or not.

Elvish Harbinger: A tutor for eldrich, a beater that doesnt die to metalworker blocks, and a mana producer.

Bloodbraid Elf: It doesn't seem too hard to splash for this girl, offers quite a bit of power for the deck but is risky for your counter heavy builds. Maybe cut back on dazes or misteps for more summoning traps if you decide to play her.

Grand Architect: Helps with aggro races and possible mana ramp

Meddling Mage: Once again; shouldnt be too hard to splash for him, can pitch to fow, and offers a lot of power to the deck.

anyway thats just some suggestions, most are probably jank but whatever.

[Guli]

Here is an interesting build:
The 1 drops try to stop Blue and Storm
The 2 drops want to hose Workshop
The 3 drops are Edric and aggro control with Knight

4 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
4 Children of Korlis
4 Cursecatcher
4 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
4 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Magus of the Unseen
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Savannah
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
4 Phantasmal Image

[AmbivalentDuck]

I think a modestly interesting question might be: is Edric better than Gush-Bond when you're already running 10+ critters?  Edric may not require a fish-looking deck.