2011 Vintage Champs at Gen Con

[Troy_Costisick]

I'm going to start a thread in Vintage Issues about this theft stuff.  It's something we should really talk about.

[Madpeep]

You guys make it sound like theft has only been a problem at Gencon.  Every single "major" event has tens of thousands of dollars stolen.  Don't carry multiple decks, don't carry trade binders, don't leave your bag with other players, don't carry a lot of cash, don't leave your wallet inside your bag.  If you're going to play in an event, bring a single deck and nothing else.  If you want to trade with your fellow players, then bring your trade binders, but nothing else.  Still want to play a game in between trades?  Then proxy up a deck to play.  Keep as few items/cards in your bag as possible.

It's a terrible thing that we have to suspect everyone, but there's obviously some level of organization involved in these thefts.  When you sit down to play a game, put your leg through the shoulder area of your backpack.  If someone tries to grab your bag, you'll know it because your leg gets yanked to the side.  Just about every theft I've heard about has been a spectator watching the game.  They'll watch, get as close to the table as possible, then use their foot to pull the bag out from under the table, all the while looking interested in the game.  As our cards continue to increase in value, these problem will also increase.  The fact that local police officers rarely take it seriously also makes it easy to steal.  Response times are slow, even then they want a complete list of all the cards that were stolen.  Your chance of getting your cards back is almost zilch.  You can get insurance on your collection while traveling, it's not cheap, but I suppose that until TO's start providing security guards at large events, then it might be worth looking into.  Maybe we should start requesting security/police officers at events from larger TO's.  They're expensive and it'll obviously come out of the already meager prize pool.

By the way, always look out for spectators without a backpack.  They'd look suspicious if they tried to leave the hall with two backpacks, so many thieves arrive without one, so when they leave with one, it's not suspicious.

I'm sorry you were one of the people who were stolen from Rich, this isn't directed at you, but rather at everyone as a general warning to watch your own stuff.  Many items are "stolen" because they're left somewhere and forgotten.  It only takes a minor distraction to lose thousands of dollars.

[DiviningTop3]

No security could watch every single person.  Something like this can only be solved by the culture.  If everyone (well at least the majoriy) look out for each other, and get over the "i'm not a rat" foolishness, thats the only way to stop it.  It hurts me to even make a candyass statement like that cause I love being an "every man for himself" sort of guy.  But the theives have all realized by now that we all have the "every man for himself" mindset and exploit it.  When someone steals a backpack right from someones side while they're still there, someone on the opposite side of the table must have noticed something.

[TheShop]

I am too scared to take anything but my single deck to my local store...and even then I don't let anyone touch it.  This is very sad, I wonder how the cops would handle physical vigilanteism....

[TheClonedOne]

No security could watch every single person.  Something like this can only be solved by the culture.  If everyone (well at least the majoriy) look out for each other, and get over the "i'm not a rat" foolishness, thats the only way to stop it.  It hurts me to even make a candyass statement like that cause I love being an "every man for himself" sort of guy.  But the theives have all realized by now that we all have the "every man for himself" mindset and exploit it.  When someone steals a backpack right from someones side while they're still there, someone on the opposite side of the table must have noticed something.

If you can call not protecting the integrity of the game you like to play, as being "a rat" then I don't know what to say to a person like that. I could never allow someone to steal a person's belongings in front of me and not say anything or do something.

[T00L]

People need to limit what they carry around with them at any given time. I know it's easy to get distracted especially when one is playing in an event. Keep the bag looped around your leg and under your seat. it's served me well over the years. Be vigilant with your stuff and shit like this will not happen.

Right, but people were getting decks stolen off the table while they were playing.  I mean, there's only so much you can do, you know?

How do you get your deck stolen while you're playing? O_o

[The Atog Lord]

I was sitting at the table when this happened. Apparently, it went like this. He had his deck on the table, in the box. And he was sitting on the table's edge. He shifted the deck to the side. Suddenly, a hand reached out of the crowd and grasped his deck. The thief vanished into the crowd.

Yeah, the thieves were blatant. And yes, this really does detract from what would otherwise be an awesome event.

[Prospero]

I was sitting at the table when this happened. Apparently, it went like this. He had his deck on the table, in the box. And he was sitting on the table's edge. He shifted the deck to the side. Suddenly, a hand reached out of the crowd and grasped his deck. The thief vanished into the crowd.

Yeah, the thieves were blatant. And yes, this really does detract from what would otherwise be an awesome event.

The amount of thievery was incredible.  I know three people that had at least $1,000 (or more) in cards stolen.

This was my first GenCon.  I was told that the theft this year was far worse than last year for theft.  I was exceptionally careful with my cards while I was there, but I needed to do a fair amount of trading and I was nervous about lending out about $7,000 in cards, as well as having a significant amount more than that on me at all times.  There is a lot that will determine if I go next year, but this will certainly factor in against making the trip.

[LotusHead]

Are thefts of this type at every big tourney ever? (ones held at convention centers, etc)?

Vacaville local Frankie Mach had all but his legacy deck stolen (while he played in t4) in SCG Los Angeles.

Does this stuff happen all the time, but TMD only reads about this due to GenCon/Vintage Champs?

Maybe there will be a way to set up a TMD "sting operation". Dedicated enforcers watch a particular deck and pounce on thief at next high level event.

[mikekilljoy]

Are thefts of this type at every big tourney ever? (ones held at convention centers, etc)?

I can speak from a little experience here. Yes, there is.

GP Chicago 2009 was the scene of some major theft and one of the best stories ever of a guy being caught. My friend had his bag stolen on Friday during the GP Trial, while he was playing. Pretty much, the guy would just use his foot and very slowly pull your bag out from under the table while you were playing. It was hard to pull off and if nobody is paying attention, very hard to catch. So, fast forward to Saturday. The head judge nearly got a standing ovation for seemingly threatening death to whoever attempts to steal. I think it was round 4 where some action broke out. One judge actually saw this kid doing exactly what I just stated. He walked over and the kid just took off. Another judge saw this and tackled the kid down. So yes, we caught our thief.

But now it gets funny. The kid used his one phone call to call the hotel, connected to the convention center, and say he got ill and was being rushed back home. Also, that he needed his bags shipped home. Sure enough, the room had about a dozen backpacks in it.

This was just one guy and they were able to trace him back to several USA GPs earlier in the year and the end of 2008 as well. So yes, it is not just GenCon. It's every Legacy GP like Chicago was and every other major event as well.

[Razvan]

Rich, again, sorry about your tough break . I don't know what happened afterwards, but I hope somehow you get it back (wishful thinking, but who knows...).

And I do not think that saying stuff like there is no honor and no one looks for one another is true.

Here's a story that happened to me the one time I attended Gencon, 2009.

I played in the vintage prelims on Thursday. I played my pimped out Workshop deck, foil almost everything, beta power, workshops, etc, etc... I was 1-1 going into round 3, and played against the next day Vintage Champ, Hiromichi Itou. Of course, then I (and most others) had no idea who he was.

Also, I should mention lack of sleep for 2 days due to travelling and working.

So I play him, borderline amused on how he always yells out cards loudly, but between (his and mine) poor English, we still have a pretty good time of the game. He was an excellent opponent.

Then he beats me, I am pretty out of it, I shake his hand, put my deck in my deck box, and walk away with my backpack... LEAVING THE DECK BOX ON THE TABLE.

I walk away, and about 10 minutes later, thankfully, someone (Don Campbell I think) asks me for a card from my box because he wants to... I don't actually know. I open my bag, then panic as I fumble and don't find the deck box.

You can imagine how I felt. I dash back to my table almost killing 3 people on the way, and I see the deck box still there, Itou staring blankly into space, sort of watching the match next to him. I pretty much collapse on the chair, grab the box, open it, check that a deck is still in there, hug everyone and that's the last thing I remember until the Vintage Champs.

Then Itou wins the event.

He knew what I did, and he knew that deck could pay for his trip and then some. There would be absolutely NO way in all hell I could prove he took the deck if he would have done so. And yet he did not.

And it's not like he didn't see me leave it there. The tables were not that cramped, and he could actually see a lone deckbox in the middle of the table. And he was waiting for me to get back (or so I think anyway) to grab it.

Anyway, to this day I still get shivers thinking about that night. I wrote on my hands the next day to always watch my cards, and for 2 years I never even brought traders to an event anymore.

Funny stuff: Ontario Vintage champs, 8 months later, I left my (again pimp) dredge deck at the venue, only to have it picked up by the organizer.

I really should shoot myself instead of going to more events.

But anyway, point is, there are good people, and most people are good, and people are watching out for others.

And yes, we have to do something about this stupid thieving situation...

[zerospin9]

This was my first GenCon and I turned in a deck that was left on the table.  I was hoping to find out if they got their deck back.  The player came over to watch my vintage match and set his deck box (clear box with grey looking sleeves) next to the table numbers.  When my match finished he just got up and walked away. My opponent got up and I saw the deck was still sitting by the table number. I called a judge and walked with him to the event reg booth to ensure the judge just didn't snag it.  From there, I never heard if they deck made it back to its owner. If anyone knows, please let me know.  (Even with all that good karma, i went 4-4 in my first sanctioned vintage tournament.)

[RitNecroWin]

After hearing about a number of thefts while at Gen Con, I decided to do a little experiment Sunday. My Ultrapro carrying case was on it's last leg; so I purchased a brand new one. I went up to the second floor to a quiet, secluded hallway and switched all of my cards to the brand new one. Then I went to the CCG hall and placed my old Ultra pro on a table (remember, it doesn't have my cards in it at this point.)  I stood about 10 feet away and acted like i was watching a match going on.. all the while watching my old Ultra Pro... a number of folks walked by and looked at it and at one point a group of younger (maybe 18 or so) guy stood next to it, whispering to one another and looking around... but they didn't try to take it. After about 15 minutes, a judge grabs it and goes, "did anyone lose this?"
I was pretty shocked... no one stole it and it found it's way to the judge's table.

Sorry to anyone that had cards stolen. I've had foil standard decks stolen years ago and it made me quit that format... it still stings to think about it :/

[Troy_Costisick]

On a different topic: I was watching the coverage of Champs on GGs, and listened intently as Steve got on and really talked up Vendilion Clique.  I had purchased my 3-set for Modern about five days earlier and realized that, yeah, they were good in Vintage too.  Well, I try to keep close tabs on the cards I buy just to see if I made good deals or not.  Have you seen the prices on V-Clique following GenCon?  Ebay is totally sold out.  Most, if not all, online stores are sold out of this card now.  I found mine for 8 bucks, now you'll be lucky to find played versions for twice that.

Was there a lot of talk about Vendilion Clique at the Vintage and Legacy champs this year?  I'm sure it wasn't just Steve's recomendation that pushed.  But was it something that a lot of players discussed?  It had to be the talk of the convention.

Stephen, are you more or less impressed with the card now that you got to play with it in the top 8?

[yespuhyren]

I'm going to go next year dressed as a cop, just to beat the asses of thieves.

Next year we should have 10 people bring a deck with CE cards and cut corners and see if anyone gets attracted to the beta looking duals/moxes etc.  Then have people watch around.  As soon as a deck gets grabbed, make use of the fact that there is no security and remove his hands

[Tempus]

Was there a lot of talk about Vendilion Clique at the Vintage and Legacy champs this year?

There was also a full playset of that card in the Legacy champ final deck. NO RUG is a deck that is quite good and abuses this card even more than Stephen's deck.

[Klep]

Any security cameras at the venue?  If you're not sure, its probably worth making some phonecalls.  Grats on your run this weekend.

cheers,
Brian

There were cameras, but they did not cover the entire area.  Rich was a row too far into the room in order to be caught on camera when his stuff was stolen.

[kkoie]

It seems to me that another solution is to obtain insurance.  Granted it does not stop the theft.  But at least it would ease the pain in replacing your cards.

[Suicideking]

You just cant leave anything around.  Keep it attached to your person. 

[mostapha]

Sorry for making this my first post on TMD, I'll find the introductions forum in a second. 

But, while I'm thinking about it…there was live coverage of the T8…is it archived anywhere?  I can't seem to find it on eternal central. 

Congrats to everybody who was happy with how they did and condolences to everyone who had cards stolen.