[Innistrad] - Snapcaster Mage

[diopter]

Regrowthing Ancestral or Walk is pretty awesome. Historically that hasn't been enough in UB/x/x combo control, except for post-2010 Gush which sometimes uses it as Gushbond fuel.

The other applications are pretty bad in U/x.

Fish sounds intriguing, except G/W is just better positioned to fight both U/x and Shops.

[dicemanx]

Recursion is possible with Riptide Laboratory (remember that card?).

That being said, I think I'd actually prefer running 4 Regrowths instead of the much more conditional although instant speed Mage. And I wouldn't run 4 Regrowths. It remains to be seen whether this Mage is good enough to run in anything outside of Fish/Wizard decks.

 

[AmbivalentDuck]

That being said, I think I'd actually prefer running 4 Regrowths instead of the much more conditional although instant speed Mage. And I wouldn't run 4 Regrowths.

I wouldn't run 4 Yawg Wills either.  That doesn't mean it's not worth running one, two, or three.

[dicemanx]

That being said, I think I'd actually prefer running 4 Regrowths instead of the much more conditional although instant speed Mage. And I wouldn't run 4 Regrowths.

I wouldn't run 4 Yawg Wills either.  That doesn't mean it's not worth running one, two, or three.

Well, to each his own. I'd definitely run 4 YawgWills .

Plus, regarding the point of my post, it wasn't the "4 of XX" that mattered.

[Eastman]

That being said, I think I'd actually prefer running 4 Regrowths instead of the much more conditional although instant speed Mage. And I wouldn't run 4 Regrowths.

I wouldn't run 4 Yawg Wills either.  That doesn't mean it's not worth running one, two, or three.

Yep, would run 4 yawg wills.

[MagicMan]

Any Pics of this card anywhere yet?

[Troy_Costisick]

All of those cards are terrible when you add 1U to the cost, except ancestral.

That's a dumb bad argument, and I'm going to come right out and say it's dumb I disagree with your reasoning.  If adding 1U to the cost of a card was so bad, then Merchant Scroll would never get played.  But it is.  And I don't want to hear that MS only ever gets pitch spells.  I've played in hundreds of games over the years where Scroll tutored out Ancestral, Brainstorm, TFK, Echoing Truth, Hurkyl's Recall, Mystical Tutor (yeah, Mystical), Spell Pierce, Rebuild, Flash (back in '08), or all kinds of other spells.  And I'm not interested in the argument that tutoring a library is always better than tutoring a graveyard.  This is Vintage.  There's always some bomb in your grave yard, and Snapcaster Mage can do all kinds of things Merchant Scroll can't.  It can target important red and black cards, it can be played on your opponent's turn, and it can get target sorceries.  If Mercant Scroll is playable, so is this guy.  Not saying you want 4 in your deck, never did, but to say he's just "cute" is wrong.  And saying adding 1U to a spell is unplayable in Vintage is just dumb.  This format's history has shown us that plenty of times.

I realize you're addressing the idea rather than the person who put the idea out there, but still, wouldn't be hard to say it in a less insulting manner.
-MM

[DubDub]

Any Pics of this card anywhere yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI7EruAUI6o&feature=feedu

[bluemage55]

If nothing else, one copy of this guy in a control shell makes Gifts that much more deadly.  It's not quite as good in a Gifts pile as Recoup is, but it's also a blue instant with a 2/1 body attached that's much better in most other situations.

I'd hesistate to consider it an autoinclude, but I'm willing to bet that this will be a card that at least merits consideration when building any deck that has Gifts in it.

[diopter]

Play turn 1 blue limited Regrowth in those ~30% of your hands when you draw it but not Ancestral. Broken!

(But it beats for two!)

It's not anything like Merchant Scroll. It's not anything like Yawgmoth's Will. It's not even as good as Regrowth.

[Prospero]

I'm no blue pilot, so I'm open to the idea of being horrifically wrong, but this card doesn't seem good at all.  I'll just echo all the points about 4x Regrowth, etc.

[GrandpaBelcher]

Doesn't this card make Yawgmoth's Will (and subsequent copies of this card) worse? If you Flashback your Ancestral, Ancestral is gone.

[bluemage55]

Doesn't this card make Yawgmoth's Will (and subsequent copies of this card) worse? If you Flashback your Ancestral, Ancestral is gone.

Yes, but the advantage of being able to get that Ancestral sooner outweighs it.  I mean, if you had Ancestral in your grave and Recoup in your hand, wouldn't you cast it to get +2 CA now?  Unless you intend to cast Yawg very soon, it's generally preferable to do so.

You do have a point about subsequent copies, which is why I see this card as preferably a one-of.

[serracollector]

This guy is good in the fact that its doesn't HAVE to just work with Ancestral.

In a painter shell, now those REB's do double duty.

EOT intiuition for 3 AK's, cast, EOT flash back AK, draw 6 for 4 mana, sure.

EOT cast him thru the thorns, and recast Hurk's ftw.

And is a 3 mana spell pierce or 4 mana drain really that bad?  I remember mystic snake seeing play for a little while in vintage, and this guy is him plus some.

I still vote he is a good card.  Not necessarily broken, but still extremly good.  And as for the 4x Regrowth argument, how about this instead for an argument, with 4 x Noxious Revival, and 4x Snapcaster, why is regrowth still restricted?  We now got 2 cards that are "any color" and BLUE (obv best color in vintage), that both do essentially the same thing, and both are "instants".  Regrowth needs to come off the list.

[Blue Lotus]

All of those cards are terrible when you add 1U to the cost, except ancestral.

That's a dumb argument, and I'm going to come right out and say it's dumb.  If adding 1U to the cost of a card was so bad, then Merchant Scroll would never get played.  But it is.  And I don't want to hear that MS only ever gets pitch spells.  I've played in hundreds of games over the years where Scroll tutored out Ancestral, Brainstorm, TFK, Echoing Truth, Hurkyl's Recall, Mystical Tutor (yeah, Mystical), Spell Pierce, Rebuild, Flash (back in '08), or all kinds of other spells.  And I'm not interested in the argument that tutoring a library is always better than tutoring a graveyard.  This is Vintage.  There's always some bomb in your grave yard, and Snapcaster Mage can do all kinds of things Merchant Scroll can't.  It can target important red and black cards, it can be played on your opponent's turn, and it can get target sorceries.  If Mercant Scroll is playable, so is this guy.  Not saying you want 4 in your deck, never did, but to say he's just "cute" is wrong.  And saying adding 1U to a spell is unplayable in Vintage is just dumb.  This format's history has shown us that plenty of times.

Except you can pay for merchant scroll then pay ancestral. MAJOR difference. This is why (among other reasons) merchant scroll is played and cunning wish isn't, even though wish is an instant.

SO YOUR DUMB! Trolololol

Edit -  and dismissing the utility of merchant scroll -> force is why these two cards are completely incomparable. Not to mention that merchant scroll requires no set up other than playing good cards in your deck. To get this to work, you need to find what you want to cast and either cast it or get it in your grave.

So im in the 4x regrowth aren't playable either camp. I have donated to the 'yes please 4x yawgwill' Super PAC if thats important.

Unnecessary.
-MM

[DubDub]

4x Regrowth is definitely playable, but only because it can pick up a Gush to be alt-cast again, which this guy can't do.  Not to mention the ability to chain Time Walks.

[dangerlinto]

And is a 3 mana spell pierce or 4 mana drain really that bad?  I remember mystic snake seeing play for a little while in vintage, and this guy is him plus some.

It is when you have to have a Mana Drain in your GY for him to be a Mana Drain.

The huge difference between this and a Regrowth effect is that I can pla Ancestral Recall on turn 1, Regrowth on turn 2 and Ancestral the next turn.  Timing is evertything - this guy's window is short.

[vaughnbros]

idk why people keep comparing this to regrowth.  this cant recur black lotus or gush, which are probably the 2 main reasons regrowth is restricted, regrowth also does not exile the card you play.  This cards strength is that is can not only get your ancestral back but it can also act as a counterspell on a 2/1 body the other issues are if you are playing against spheres now you pay double and if you are playing against canonist its ability does nothing, while also against blue a 2/1 body means relatively nothing in those match ups unless your opponent swings with a bob, which makes it a bad regrowth.

[Jo84]

It´s a blue recoup on legs with instant speed.
Seems quite interesting. I am not sure if it can be used for some kind of broken combo, but he is card advantage, so he has a chance to see play in Vintage.

[Neonico]

It´s a blue recoup on legs with instant speed.
Seems quite interesting. I am not sure if it can be used for some kind of broken combo, but he is card advantage, so he has a chance to see play in Vintage.

It's really really far from being a recoup....
You cannot gifts for yaug and 2 good cards with this guy (i know that's not revelant these days but still)....

[bluemage55]

It's really really far from being a recoup....
You cannot gifts for yaug and 2 good cards with this guy (i know that's not revelant these days but still)....

You still can, now that 2 good cards can easily be game-ending.  Consider the following two piles:

SCM, Time Vault, Key, Yawg
SCM, Time Walk, Tinker, Yawg

Both are lethal and only possible with SCM or Recoup.  Since SCM pitches to Force and can flash in as a surprise blocker/planeswalker killer, SCM is generally superior to Recoup.

[Meddling Mike]

In my typical fashion, I enjoy Pros/Cons list when comparing cards:

Pros: Snapcaster Mage v. Regrowth:
-It's blue.
-It's an instant. This also allows it to be a combat trick of sorts. You can block a Dark Confidant/Mishra's Factory/Phyrexian Revoker/Slash Panther/Zombie Token/Etc.
-Provides a body.
-It's cheaper through Thorn of Amethyst.
-It's a wizard, goes great with Voidmage Prodigy...you see where I'm going with this...

Cons: Snapcaster Mage v. Regrowth:
-Regrowth puts the card in your hand. This is relevant for cards like Gush/Force of Will that have alternate casting costs. This also makes the effect longer than the one provided by Snapcaster Mage because you're not required to pay for and cast the spell the same turn you cast Regrowth. Helps you keep Library of Alexandria turned on as well.
-Regrowth is not limited to instants and sorceries.
-Casting a flashback spell from the graveyard exiles it.

Pros: Snapcaster Mage v. Recoup:
-It's blue.
-It's an instant. This also allows it to be a combat trick of sorts. You can block a Dark Confidant/Mishra's Factory/Phyrexian Revoker/Slash Panther/Zombie Token/Etc.
-Provides a body.
-It's cheaper through Thorn of Amethyst.
-It's a wizard, goes great with Voidmage Prodigy...you see where I'm going with this...
-It can target instants too.

Cons: Snapcaster Mage v. Recoup:
-Recoup has flashback, allowing you to really force the issue when creating a gifts pile for Yawgmoth's Will.

Pros: Snapcaster Mage v. Merchant Scroll:
-It's an instant. This also allows it to be a combat trick of sorts. You can block a Dark Confidant/Mishra's Factory/Phyrexian Revoker/Slash Panther/Zombie Token/Etc.
-Provides a body.
-It's cheaper through Thorn of Amethyst.
-It's a wizard, goes great with Voidmage Prodigy...you see where I'm going with this...
-Targets things which are not blue.

Cons: Snapcaster Mage v. Merchant Scroll:
-Merchant Scroll puts the card in your hand. This is relevant for cards like Gush/Force of Will that have alternate casting costs. This also makes the effect longer than the one provided by Snapcaster Mage because you're not required to pay for and cast the spell the same turn you cast Regrowth. Helps you keep Library of Alexandria turned on as well.
-Casting a flashback spell from the graveyard exiles it.
-Often there is a better selection of cards in your deck than in your graveyard. So Snapcaster Mage requires more setup.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Fringe card. All of these applications and dream scenarios are marginal.

What???

SCM + Brainstorm
SCM + Mystical Tutor
SCM + Ancestral
SCM + Spell Pierce
SCM + Mental Misstep
SCM + Mana Drain
SCM + Dismember
SCM + Vamp Tutor
SCM + Dark Ritual
SCM + Time Walk
SCM + Tinker
SCM + Timetwister
SCM + Thoughtseize
SCM + Demo Tutor
SCM + Duress
SCM + Ponder
SCM + Preordain
SCM + Imperial Seal
SCM + Yawgmoth's Will (that got countered/discarded)

How is any of this marginal?

All of those cards are terrible when you add 1U to the cost, except ancestral. And considering it is restricted, you will only get to use this guy once. Cramming 4 in your deck is certainly wrong. Cute, useful, but overhyped.

I’d be pretty happy EOTing ancestral. Just fine with brainstorm, mystical, and vamp.  
I’d be fine paying 2uu for mana drain when I need it. And definitely 2uu for time walk.
1ub for a duress effect feels awful early game, but if I had 5-6 mana mid to late game it seems like an alright play if it’s not putting you off 2 or more counter spells.

Doesn't this card make Yawgmoth's Will (and subsequent copies of this card) worse? If you Flashback your Ancestral, Ancestral is gone.

Yes, but the advantage of being able to get that Ancestral sooner outweighs it.  I mean, if you had Ancestral in your grave and Recoup in your hand, wouldn't you cast it to get +2 CA now?  Unless you intend to cast Yawg very soon, it's generally preferable to do so.

You do have a point about subsequent copies, which is why I see this card as preferably a one-of.

you do get to draw three cards sooner rather than later, also use those cards to potentially make will better.

This guy is good in the fact that its doesn't HAVE to just work with Ancestral.

In a painter shell, now those REB's do double duty.

EOT intiuition for 3 AK's, cast, EOT flash back AK, draw 6 for 4 mana, sure.

EOT cast him thru the thorns, and recast Hurk's ftw.

And is a 3 mana spell pierce or 4 mana drain really that bad?  I remember mystic snake seeing play for a little while in vintage, and this guy is him plus some.

I still vote he is a good card.  Not necessarily broken, but still extremly good.  And as for the 4x Regrowth argument, how about this instead for an argument, with 4 x Noxious Revival, and 4x Snapcaster, why is regrowth still restricted?  We now got 2 cards that are "any color" and BLUE (obv best color in vintage), that both do essentially the same thing, and both are "instants".  Regrowth needs to come off the list.

In painter, the rebs already did double duty, and the deck is already a tight fit as is.

With ak, it’s a draw 6 for 6, not 4. Or a draw 3 for 2 and a draw 3 for 4 (a 6 for 6). However you want to look at it. If you want to figure in the intuition, which some people might, it’s a draw 3 for 5 and a draw three for 4. Making an ak play then randomly EOTing a draw 3 for 4 seems ok honestly. It’s probably win more at that point though.

I am never keeping this guy in vs shops, playing him eot through thorn and hurksing for 5 mana seems like I can play things that cost 4 mana, and be that point have won, or an awful awful sb plan

It´s a blue recoup on legs with instant speed.
Seems quite interesting. I am not sure if it can be used for some kind of broken combo, but he is card advantage, so he has a chance to see play in Vintage.

It's really really far from being a recoup....
You cannot gifts for yaug and 2 good cards with this guy (i know that's not revelant these days but still)....

I wouldn’t say its really really far from recoup. You can totally gifts for will and 2 good cards. Like tinker time walk
They give you one of the following

Tinker, snap caster
Tinker, will          
Tinker time walk
And they die.
Or
Will, snapcaster  (5 mana and a fow and you’re probably are the winner considering you just resolved gifts. This is probably the worst pile)
Will, time walk.  (holy shit they gave you will and time walk! you are about to take 3 turns in a row and have the middle one be under will!)

[Mantis]

If Regrowth were unrestricted you could Ancestral Recall 5 turns in a row. With Snapcaster Mage this isn't feasible. I don't think it's worse than Regrowth, but Regrowth doesn't lose value as a 4-of, whereas Snapcaster Mage does. Anyhow, I think another good comparison for this card is Confidant and I definately think Confidant is vastly superior. Especially, as Eastman pointed out, in the early stages of the game.

This card is definately Vintage playable but will not invalidaye other strategies or cards, so I welcome this addition.

[madmanmike25]

I agree, like it or not this card will see play in Vintage.  I'm wondering if it could go in a hybrid deck similar to Bomberman that can either beat with creatures or combo out.  It would be lovely if it sparks a new decktype.

[Meddling Mike]

I think that this card could fit in very well in WiFi, which recently made a showing piloted by Nat Moes.
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=42847.0
With some tinkering to give a few more relevant targets for this guy I think he'd be a perfect fit. I'd love to play this guy in response to a spell, flashback my Ancestral Recall and then sacrifice it to my Voidmage Prodigy.

[Troy_Costisick]

Any Pics of this card anywhere yet?

Yes, finally, SCG has one up:

[BlackVise]

I've been messing around online with a U/W/B Fish-ish deck running 4 of these plus Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Aether Vial, Meddling Mage, Dark Confidant, and Standstill, and it's actually proving quite a handy card - provides beats, makes it possible to Ancestral Recall/Brainstorm into a Standstill quite reliably, and when you've got a few creatures on the board the effect of flashbacking a Time Walk can be brilliant.

I think this card has potential, but most likely as a one or two of, or in a deck that is built specifically to abuse it.

[Diakonov]

I think this card has potential, but most likely as a one or two of, or in a deck that is built specifically to abuse it.

I think this is right on the money.  It's a great mid-game/late-game card as it provides you with a lot of options.  The fact that you can do it EOT is marginally appealing, but I really like that it's blue and can block a dude.  The potential 2-for-1 situation makes it comparable to Regrowth in power, IMO.

[Soapbot]

OMG, this guy will totally change the format. He's that powerful. Even at 4 of, getting double duty out of duress, and attacking for 2.
then lock them out with jace. Or blocking confidant and then chaining vampiric tutor, This card is Unbelievabe.

In oath you could just play 2 Snapcasters and Oath into yawgmoth's will for the win> Tooooooo easy

even synergizes with jace to bounce the Snap Caster Back to hand and cast mana drain on opponent turn. Every deck will have to run it,
or get stomped by it (control). Attack with dark confidant, cast a small tendrils and cast it again and attack with snap caster. Tendrils has another body to take off life so the storm doesn't have to even be that big AND you can recast the tendrils, or a countered tinker.
WAAAAAAY Stronger than regrowth, not even in the same city. All the sorceries and Instants in vintage win the game, or create some sort of CA

my god One of the best cards printed in years, dark confidants blue brotha, definite format changer