[Free Article] Understanding Gush: Bob Gush Control

[Smmenen]

http://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/understanding-gush-with-dark-confidant-bobgush-control/

This is my 16 page primer on the Bob/Gush Control deck, complete with Updated Decklist and SBing chart.  

As I say in the article: "For those of you who have read my book, consider this an addendum. For those of you who haven’t read my book, consider this a peek into the world of Gush decks, and a snapshot into one of the most interesting areas of Vintage play and design."

[serracollector]

I love reading your articles steve.  As of late tho, and I was wondering on your opinion, but, why haven't we seen more painter/grindstone gush variants?  One would think that since it is just as easy a combo as TV/Vault, and costs the same to drop (3 after ftw, but 3 mana with Gush is obv no prob), and gets to play Uber cheap counters in the form of REB and Pyro main, that this could easily be played?  For example taking your list, and just replacing the Trygons and Cliques with 3 painter, 1 grindstone?  All 4 cards get under Thorn/Lodestone, and can also be tinkered ftw.  I have seen lots of Gush Deck, Bob/Gush decks, Bob/Cobra/Trygon Gush decks,  and I have seen lots of painter decks popping up in t8's, but I have yet to see a Gush deck utilizing the Painter/Stone combo with maindeck REBs.  This could allow a Mix package of Pierce,Flusterstorm, Misstep, REB, all in 1 deck, drawing all in mass off Confidants and Gush with no fear of the Life loss, or of getting your bombs countered due to lack of protection.  Also, Obv, once a painter hits play, Lodestones and Panthers are just an REB/Pyro away from biting the dust.  Your thoughts?

edit: not to mention REB hits jace, tezz, and clique.

[Nastaboi]

Your latest list has 61 cards. I cut Ponder and didn't miss it when I went 4-1 with a similar list last Saturday.

[Hi-Val]

I liked the article (hell, I'm hosting it on my site so of course I like it!) but I wish you'd addressed why Bob is better than Night's Whisper with a little more directness.

One of the issues with Painter/Grindstone, I think, is that Blightsteel Colossus in opposing decks screws up your kill math. If I knew your wincon was Grindstone, I'd probably tutor up Will as soon as I could and just let you mill me into Christmasland.

[Smmenen]

Your latest list has 61 cards. I cut Ponder and didn't miss it when I went 4-1 with a similar list last Saturday.

Whoops.   I'd cut a Clique, then.

I liked the article (hell, I'm hosting it on my site so of course I like it!) but I wish you'd addressed why Bob is better than Night's Whisper with a little more directness.

The answer to that question is implicit in how I addressed Bob, talking about how to interact with Thorns, etc.   

[cvarosky80]

Great article and an excellent add-on to the Gush book. You talked a bit about how Spell Pierce may become less effective going forward, so I was wondering what your thoughts were on perhaps using some combination of Mindbreak Trap and/or Mana Drain to go along with Flusterstorm in those 4 slots as more effective replacements in the near future?

[doggue]

Hi Stephen

I read your book and this is a very good addiction. I like your writing style.

My two decks I usually play at the moment are Bob Control or Gushstorm. I'd love to try your deck out, which is like a hybrid =). The only thing that I'm worried about: I don't think Predator is well positioned in my Metagame, since almost all Workshop decks here are based on Metalworkers and Steel Hellkites / Kuldotha Forgemaster. Which maindeck hatecards would you recommend against these decks?

Another question: You listed your sideboard plan in your article. In case that your control opponent plays bob's, I assume you board in the lightning bolts?

Thank you very much for your great articles.

[Smmenen]

Great article and an excellent add-on to the Gush book. You talked a bit about how Spell Pierce may become less effective going forward, so I was wondering what your thoughts were on perhaps using some combination of Mindbreak Trap and/or Mana Drain to go along with Flusterstorm in those 4 slots as more effective replacements in the near future?

Mindbreak Trap is a bit pricy for a Bob deck with Gush, but Mana Drain works well, if a bit slow.  I like Thoughtseize better than either of those, and another card, which I can't name, better than all. 

Hi Stephen

I read your book and this is a very good addiction. I like your writing style.

My two decks I usually play at the moment are Bob Control or Gushstorm. I'd love to try your deck out, which is like a hybrid =). The only thing that I'm worried about: I don't think Predator is well positioned in my Metagame, since almost all Workshop decks here are based on Metalworkers and Steel Hellkites / Kuldotha Forgemaster. Which maindeck hatecards would you recommend against these decks?

Another question: You listed your sideboard plan in your article. In case that your control opponent plays bob's, I assume you board in the lightning bolts?

Thank you very much for your great articles.

Maybe one, but only if they have Jace as well.   As for Shops, bring in Grudges instead.   Grudge is better against the Hellkite list. 

[ReubenG]

Thank you for the article.  I was hoping you would do an update likes this after reading your book and watching the Champs coverage, since Bob/Gush didn't get discussed in this detail.

I noticed your final decklist had replaced Jailer with Spellbomb, but the sideboard chart still refered to Jailer....I assume you are promoting Jailer rather than Spellbomb against dredge?

Lastly, after watching the TSO coverage, will we expect an article like this on Cobra/Gush deck you won with in the future?

[Smmenen]

Thank you for the article.  I was hoping you would do an update likes this after reading your book and watching the Champs coverage, since Bob/Gush didn't get discussed in this detail.

I noticed your final decklist had replaced Jailer with Spellbomb, but the sideboard chart still refered to Jailer....I assume you are promoting Jailer rather than Spellbomb against dredge?

Lastly, after watching the TSO coverage, will we expect an article like this on Cobra/Gush deck you won with in the future?

That list is incorrect then, as I only replaced Tormod's Crypt with Spellbomb.  I still run Jailer.  

I will be writing a tournament report from this past weekend

[RichardD]

Your latest list has 61 cards. I cut Ponder and didn't miss it when I went 4-1 with a similar list last Saturday.

Whoops.   I'd cut a Clique, then.

How come you would cut a Clique from that 61 cards list?
As you stated yourself, you're HUGE on the card.

Clique was OFTEN better than Dark Confidant.  I'm huge on the card.   

Is it still really the best card to cut?

[Smmenen]

Your latest list has 61 cards. I cut Ponder and didn't miss it when I went 4-1 with a similar list last Saturday.

Whoops.   I'd cut a Clique, then.

How come you would cut a Clique from that 61 cards list?
As you stated yourself, you're HUGE on the card.

Clique was OFTEN better than Dark Confidant.  I'm huge on the card.   

Is it still really the best card to cut?

You raise an excellent point.   Now that I have a few minutes, let me provide a more detailed response.  I will double post this into my tournament report as well.

I no longer have to be coy about my post-Champs changes.   Immediately after the tournament, both Paul and I concluded that the two cards that could be cut were 2nd Top and 4th Bob.  But I needed to make room for three cards: 1 Jace, and 2 Key/Vault.   So, the third card I decided to cut was the 3rd Trygon Predator, for the reasons described in this article.   In the post-Champs metagame, Trygon Predator loses alot of its luster.   If people keep playing Cat Stax it will be strong, but if people go to Hellkite lists, I'd rather have Ancient Grudge.

When I started working on this article, though, I reversed my position on cutting the 4th Bob.  Your point about Clique reminded me, and when I finally analyze my videoed games, it came home, that I really do prefer the 2 Cliques to the 4th Bob.    So, I would cut the 4th Bob, the 2nd Top, and the 3rd Trygon for 2 Key/vault and 1 Jace.  That's my updated list.

And, yes, I run Jailer.  That SB must be 14 cards.

[JACO]

Great article and an excellent add-on to the Gush book. You talked a bit about how Spell Pierce may become less effective going forward, so I was wondering what your thoughts were on perhaps using some combination of Mindbreak Trap and/or Mana Drain to go along with Flusterstorm in those 4 slots as more effective replacements in the near future?

Mindbreak Trap is a bit pricy for a Bob deck with Gush, but Mana Drain works well, if a bit slow.  I like Thoughtseize better than either of those, and another card, which I can't name, better than all. 

Planning on playing Nix in the upcoming Waterbury tournament, are we?

[Cunningbeaver]

Great article and an excellent add-on to the Gush book. You talked a bit about how Spell Pierce may become less effective going forward, so I was wondering what your thoughts were on perhaps using some combination of Mindbreak Trap and/or Mana Drain to go along with Flusterstorm in those 4 slots as more effective replacements in the near future?

Mindbreak Trap is a bit pricy for a Bob deck with Gush, but Mana Drain works well, if a bit slow.  I like Thoughtseize better than either of those, and another card, which I can't name, better than all. 

Planning on playing Nix in the upcoming Waterbury tournament, are we?

'

More than likely Flusterstorm.      "People who think Nix is good against GAT are just wrong.   It's not "hot tech."  It's terrible " Is a comment he made once in '07.

[cvarosky80]

The problem with maindecking multiple Flusterstorms (In place of the 4 Spell Pierces that is) is that it's completely useless against Shops. Even more useless than Mental Misstep (which can at least hit Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Welders if they're running them). I'm wondering if the card he won't name is something that hasn't seen play in Vintage in quite a while, but used to be a 4-of once upon a time.

[serracollector]

I know that with Lotus Cobra and a full set of Moxen, and that everyone is "prepared" to pay the 2 mana for spell pierce, and possibly Flusterstorm, that mana leak seems a descent choice for todays Meta.

[cvarosky80]

I know that with Lotus Cobra and a full set of Moxen, and that everyone is "prepared" to pay the 2 mana for spell pierce, and possibly Flusterstorm, that mana leak seems a descent choice for todays Meta.

I was thinking that as well. Especially with Misstep being so prevalent. It's been some time since Leak has seen Vintage-play from what I've noticed. Although, Negate may not be a terrible choice right now as well, at least as a substitute for Spell Pierce as it hits the same targets as Spell Pierce, but is unconditional counter for non-creature spells. Both are certainly "faster" than Drain in terms of Turn-1 playability, but not as fast as Spell Pierce or a Duress/Thoughtseize, so I guess it's trial and error on Mana Leak and Negate. It sounds good in theory though.

[JACO]

Nix is a hard counter against Gush, Force, Misstep, Moxes, Chalice. It actually seems pretty well positioned right now.

[RichardD]

Nix is a hard counter against Gush, Force, Misstep, Moxes, Chalice. It actually seems pretty well positioned right now.

But as soon as they drop a Sphere first, Nix does nothing.
Thus Nix does nothing...

I feel a combination of Spell Pierce/Negate/Mana Leak is probably best.
The second Mana Leak is usually much worse than the first.

[Ten-Ten]

The problem with maindecking multiple Flusterstorms (In place of the 4 Spell Pierces that is) is that it's completely useless against Shops. Even more useless than Mental Misstep (which can at least hit Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Welders if they're running them). I'm wondering if the card he won't name is something that hasn't seen play in Vintage in quite a while, but used to be a 4-of once upon a time.

.
.
.
could it be force spike or memory lapse?

[marcb]

How about dispel at 1 cmc, otherwise I like leak.

[The Atog Lord]

Flusterstorm is a great card. I was very happy to have it in my sideboard.

Nix is terrible. It's always negative tempo -- you pay one mana while the opponent has paid none. It's a bad deal.

[serracollector]

Memory lapsing a Force or Gush with Bob on opponents side is kinda funny....