Is EDH really a social format?

[magic geek]

Is  EDH really only for social play?

Are there EDH tournaments?

If there are ... Do people play those tournamnets to win?

[Joblin Velder]

No.

Yes.

Yes.

[Meddling Mike]

No.

Yes.

Yes.

[Wagner]

No game ever invented is "only" for social play, you will always have people that want to win at a game.

Thought one might argue improv games such as "Whose line is it anyway" are the exception.

But if there is a prize on the line, it stops being only social.

[Commandant]

Not very social despite what Sheldon wants people to believe.

FWIW here's the list I play - not very social.

[Joblin Velder]

The group I'm part of is great about self limiting. The game can certainly be what Sheldon wants if it's what you want.

[Commandant]

The group I'm part of is great about self limiting. The game can certainly be what Sheldon wants if it's what you want.

Agree but if you show up at any store and random events I find your best bet is to always bring the tank and if it ends up being a knife fight adjust accordingly.

[magic geek]

See, I am from Oz.

We have an active and vibrant Highlander scene, and, to be honest, it is a better format than EDH.

There is a simple, short, point list. So any tournament legal card can actually be played.
The tormament scene has been consistent for many years.
But it is very much a local format.

After seeing a game or two of EDH recently I thought I might want to have a go building and playing.
The first thing I did was decide to think about pure combo.
Then I found out I had to have a commander, and then I learnt it had to be a creature. (oh well)

The next thing I did was compare the points list in Highlander with the banned list in EDH.
Oh My..., the EDH banned list looks VERY WEAK.
How could cards like Sol Ring, manacrypt, Mind Twist, Jitte & wasteland not be included on the banned list?
How could some of that Fluff be on it?
Basing a deck on the differences seemed pretty obvious, to me anyway.


Then I read about the design philosophy behind EDH and thought ... Really?

If I am going to play this format, trying to break it from the get go, maybe I just shouldn't if it really is trying to solely be social.

And, I think it can be broken.
Combo seems the way.
Blue/Black most likely, haven't settled on how to try it.
Stassis seems rude.

[magic geek]

The current Highlander points List.....

4 points:
Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, Tinker, Flash, Protean Hulk

3 points:
Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Ruby, Mox Sapphire, Sol Ring, Time Vault, Time Walk, Vampiric Tutor, Worldgorger Dragon, Yawgmoth's Will.

2 points:
Balance, Channel, Crucible of Worlds, Gifts Ungiven, Mana Crypt, Mind Twist, Memory Jar, Mystical Tutor, Strip Mine, Survival of the Fittest, Tainted Pact, Time Spiral, Timetwister, Tolarian Academy, Wheel of Fortune.

1 point:
Enlightened Tutor, Fastbond, Force of Will, Grim Tutor, Lim-Dul's Vault, Library of Alexandria, Mana Drain, Mana Vault, Mishra's Workshop, Necropotence, Oath of Druids, Personal Tutor, Price of Progress, Skullclamp, Umezawa's Jitte, Yawgmoth's Bargain.


And, each player gets 7 points to spend.....

[Nefarias]

See, I am from Oz.

For the life of me I can't figure out what that is supposed to stand for, unless you mean the magical world created by L Frank Baum or the prison depicted by the HBO show. Am I just being dense?

As New Zealander, I can tell you that we refer to Australia as "Oz", which I believe is where he lives (going by his hostname).
-Godder

The first thing I did was decide to think about pure combo.
Then I found out I had to have a commander, and then I learnt it had to be a creature. (oh well)

Well, you can just used a five color Legend and just never cast it.

The next thing I did was compare the points list in Highlander with the banned list in EDH.
Oh My..., the EDH banned list looks VERY WEAK.
How could cards like Sol Ring, manacrypt, Mind Twist, Jitte & wasteland not be included on the banned list?
How could some of that Fluff be on it?

It's a complete joke. At first I gave them some benefit of the doubt and just figured a lot of the stupid card on there were just relics from the first time they made the list, and they were just cards that really annoyed their playgroup. But recently, they strongly considered unbanning Kokusho, and asked multiple playgroups to test it and see if it was safe. They concluded that it wasn't. Seriously?

And, I think it can be broken.
Combo seems the way.
Blue/Black most likely, haven't settled on how to try it.
Stasis seems rude.

Oh it totally can. I ended up breaking apart an Esper control deck because nobody would ever play against it, and it didn't even have broken combo draws. Azami is a great combo general, and that's monoblue. As previously mentioned, you can just make a 5color "Good Stuff" deck without ever intending to cast your general, etc etc. Very few griefer cards are banned, with the noticeable exception being Limited Resources. But things like Stasis, Winter Orb, Ward of Bones, Land Equilibrium, Iona, and Mindslaver are all totally legal. If you want to just pis someone off, you definitely can.

I love the format, but take a different stance than the "format philosophy." I prefer the competitive games for sure, but recognize that most people play it casually. So even though I broke apart the Esper deck, I still have a deck that I feel is competitive but since it's not blue people are far more willing to play against it. I made the concession of not playing blue to increase the opportunity to play games. That said, I'd rather play against Azami or Arcum or Zur over Zirilian of the Claw or Sisters of Stone Death any day.

I have found myself having a surprisingly good time playing less powerful decks as well, but the caveat is that the opponents have to be on a similar level. Playing EDH precons against each other have been surprisingly enjoyable. I limit myself to not changing them at all though, because I just can't make a "casual" deck without throwing in a ton of good cards. There is no reason for an EDH deck to not run Mana Crypt, for example.

[Norm4eva]

EDH, like many other formats, is as broken as you make it.

That said, it is also whatever your playgroup decides it is.  If it's just to dick around between games of "real Magic", i.e. just a silly thing to try while preparing for a Vintage tourney, great.  If you play with people who want their decks to be as fine-tuned as destructive and broken as can be, that's absolutely fine and happens all the time.

However, if you find the design philosophy behind EDH to be flawed then you probably shouldn't play it.  The idea that the format is predicated on the notion that it can be both Kitchen Table and competitive is part of what has driven its success.  For years casual players have been adding house rules to every format from Standard to Vintage, and managing their own banned lists, etc, but having to do it in the face of hyper competitive Standard players and even being destroyed by people who just attend FNM on a regular basis.  Codifying it may seem tertiary, but it grants lease where none was implied prior.  The Zen of Python is clear on this - Explicit is better than implicit.

[magic geek]

Two / Three colour landkill seems pretty rude.

Red/Green
or Red/black
or Red/Green/Black


necro with 40 life seems pretty rude too.

[Wagner]

Two / Three colour landkill seems pretty rude.

Red/Green
or Red/black
or Red/Green/Black


necro with 40 life seems pretty rude too.

Landkill is a pretty bad strategy when playing multiplayer.

Also, there is a separate ban list for EDH 1 VS 1 which prohibits cards like Strip Mine, Sol Ring, Necropotence, Sensei's Top and other cards they give you a stupid advantage. You also start at 30 life.

[magic geek]

As far as I can tell, EDH now has exactly 1 banned list.... The Official One.

I have only seen this format played 1vs1.
Multiplayer with each person starting on 40 sounds like a whole night experienece.
That is no longer going to happen, not for me anyway.

When this format is played in tournament, do people actually play this multiplayer?

Perhaps I should introduce myself a little.

16 years ago I played my only multiplayer tournament.
I did not want to, but my friend needed a play buddy so he could have a go at winning the overall weekend prize that was run across 4 tournaments.
So I played in a 2 vs 2.
I told him to only play counterspells. Just counterspells. Nothing else.
Beforehand, I did not tell him what I was playing.
Repeatedly we were in the trench...."Stay On Target!"
I played Enduring Renewal combo, sacrificing infinite Shield Spheres for infinite damage. And we won.

I am really just not cut out to play multiplayer. I do not believe Magic is either.
Feel free to know that I am wrong.

Can you show me where I see the 2 player ban list?
That sounds like a fertile place to find cards to play in the "official" version of EDH.

[magic geek]

I have been thinking a lot about the combo's to use.

The obvious ones just dont work, or a re banned.
Maybe that is the best place to start, the ones that do not work.

Nope
Delusions/Donate
High Tide
Cadaverous Bloom
?Balance check list?
?Oath of Druids?
?Tinker.?
?time Vault?

Might work
Dragonstorm
Enduring renewal/Fruity pebbles
Storm
Worldgorger Dragon
Stassis (Prison Lock)
Lich's Mirror
Marit Lage
Infinite Turns
Hermit druid (graveyard sillyness...maybe this one has real potential... pity there is SO much anti creature hatred in EDH)


Of them, a stassis style lock might be easiest. Vendillion Clique seems a natural start point for that sort of yuck. That sort of yuck is not my natural playground. hmmm

Maybe a really oldschool LandsEdge/Seismic Assault!

[magic geek]

Tinker really is just stupid as a card, being banned demonstrates EDH is taken at least mildly seriously.

Enduring Renewal seems possible, but a 3 card combo is always tricky.
Splinter twin seems easier, maybe...

Playing creatures just seems a bad idea.
Although Dragonstorm does seem to have legs, and I know it, but filling 100 cards with a working Dragonstorm deck seems keen

I think the prison idea might have legs.
Lots of interacting, obnoxious cards.


White
Wrath, geddon, catacylsm, land tax, ghostly prison, stp, path,
Gideon, Elspeth
... hmmm anti artifact/enchantment or not...hmmm
... Life gain? Ivory tower/Well of life? Disk? Scroll rack? Icy Manipulator?
Lots of artifact mana

Blue Stassis /Winter orb (+daze), (+Gush), (+Black Vise), mana drain, mental mistep, FOW, mana leak, remand, memory lapse, counter(xLots), cryptic command, back to basics (maybe),  
hhhmm

Someone has done that before I am certain. I should go research....

Necro with massed life gain seems too dumb to not think about. Pulled it off a couple of times in type 1 with reliquary tower/library of leng and Ivory tower. Zuran orb/Fastbond/crucible of Worlds is cute too.


The current "combo" I am thinking about is "combolander" from the highlander primer, Lich's mirror with 100 cards is insane.