How good is Imperial Seal?

[TheProfessor]

After playing Legacy for a while, I decided to start playing Vintage with a few of my friends.  I absolutely love the format and have started to invest in a set of Power 9 (6/9).  While I have picked up almost all of the staples for the many different blue decks out there, I was wondering if I should buy an Imperial Seal.  I know that it is just a sorcery version of Vampiric Tutor, but is it really worth the 700-800 dollar price tag?

How do you guys feel about Imperial Seal and its usefulness in Vintage?

[Commandant]

It's on the bottom of my to purchase for Type 1 list.

There are a few people who really favor this card, I'm not one of them.

There's a lot to be said about a Sorcery speed card disadvantage tutor in a meta that's predominately blue based. Also the price/performance ratio for this card is really low, even more so now that it apparently doubled in price since I last checked.

[Smmenen]

Wtf. I had no idea it was worth that much. That's absurd!!!

[Meddling Mike]

Wtf. I had no idea it was worth that much. That's absurd!!!

Seriously, did I miss something? Is it people buying them up for Commander decks or something?

[Commandant]

Wtf. I had no idea it was worth that much. That's absurd!!!

Seriously, did I miss something? Is it people buying them up for Commander decks or something?

I think so and yeah the price literally doubled in the past 6 months.

My vote - get two Moxen over the seal. I doubt I'll ever pick up a seal now it's too much of a fringe card and I do not believe it to be very good, especially for the price.

[BC]

The price is being driven up by Commander.

I have known people who are big fans of ISeal, but when it comes time for them to make space in their deck for something else, the Seal is one of the first things to go.  In my opinion you can live your entire life as a Vintage player and never really miss Imperial Seal.

[The Atog Lord]

For what it's worth, I don't like the card at all. Even if I'm playing a list that traditionally runs Imperial Seal, I cut it for something else. The last time someone cast Imperial Seal against me, I just resolved Jace and bottomed the card.

[Norm4eva]

Once people figured out you could go broken in Commander, the price of playable Good Stuff sort of jumped up.  A lot.

There's a ton of Eternal formats with similar needs and they share a lot of the same staples.  It's somewhat discouraging.

[arj]

There's a ton of Eternal formats with similar needs and they share a lot of the same staples.  It's somewhat discouraging.

+1

[hitman]

Imperial Seal isn't 700-800.  When looking at pricing you have to look at completed listings on EBay.  It's still in the 350 range.

[JACO]

Japanese and Chinese ones are $350-400, and English ones are $600+. The card sucks in most decks, so you'd be much better off spending your hard earned money elsewhere on other staples.

[TheProfessor]

I appreciate the input guys.  I run a lot of Gush based decks and wasnt sure if I was missing out on an essential card.

I agree with the idea that Commander/EDH are driving up the price of it, along with other eternal staples.  I think it was within the last month and a half to two months that the card jumped for the English version.

[voltron00x]

Japanese and Chinese ones are $350-400, and English ones are $600+. The card sucks in most decks, so you'd be much better off spending your hard earned money elsewhere on other staples.

This.  I didn't pick one up when they were $225/$275 and now I probably never will.

[Prospero]

Japanese and Chinese ones are $350-400, and English ones are $600+. The card sucks in most decks, so you'd be much better off spending your hard earned money elsewhere on other staples.

This.  I didn't pick one up when they were $225/$275 and now I probably never will.

I've gone through a few over the course of the last few years.  I bought a Japanese one on Ebay back in the spring for $273, with shipping, and felt that it was horribly overpriced.  I then traded it and $75 worth of cards for an English Imperial Seal, feeling like an idiot for hating Asian cards and 'needing' and English one. 

I no longer feel like an idiot.

If I didn't already own the card I'd have a very hard time justifying the purchase.

[Nefarias]

To everyone amazed at the price hike: English Capture of Jingzhou is $250 on SCG (no recent eBay completed).

More on topic: I pretty much agree with everyone here. I've been playing Type 1 for the better part of 10 years, and most often U/B/x control/combo decks, and I don't think I've ever cast the card. Jace and Misstep make it even worse.

[TheProfessor]

Japanese and Chinese ones are $350-400, and English ones are $600+. The card sucks in most decks, so you'd be much better off spending your hard earned money elsewhere on other staples.

This.  I didn't pick one up when they were $225/$275 and now I probably never will.

I've gone through a few over the course of the last few years.  I bought a Japanese one on Ebay back in the spring for $273, with shipping, and felt that it was horribly overpriced.  I then traded it and $75 worth of cards for an English Imperial Seal, feeling like an idiot for hating Asian cards and 'needing' and English one. 

I no longer feel like an idiot.

If I didn't already own the card I'd have a very hard time justifying the purchase.

Thats pretty sweet!

Do you play the card often? How do you like it as far as playability goes?

[i_set_fire]

As others have said, it is a fringe card that is not that good and often the first one cut from your deck to make room for something new/better.  You are much better off spending your money on two moxen that you know will always be needed and using a seal proxy for a few weeks before you inevitably cut the card anyway.

[Onslaught]

I think it's essential in any deck with 5+ Duress, but there aren't a lot of builds like that these days. Turn one Seal for Ancestral, turn 2 Duress/Thoughtseize into Ancestral isn't as strong with Missteps running around, but it's still very good.

If you like playing Vault/Key, Seal will probably find it's way into a lot of your decks too.

[Smmenen]

I think it's essential in any deck with 5+ Duress, but there aren't a lot of builds like that these days. Turn one Seal for Ancestral, turn 2 Duress/Thoughtseize into Ancestral isn't as strong with Missteps running around, but it's still very good.

If you like playing Vault/Key, Seal will probably find it's way into a lot of your decks too.

I completely agree. It's also essential for Dark Ritual decks. Imperial Seal goes into almost every Ritual deck in Vintage.

[TheProfessor]

I think it's essential in any deck with 5+ Duress, but there aren't a lot of builds like that these days. Turn one Seal for Ancestral, turn 2 Duress/Thoughtseize into Ancestral isn't as strong with Missteps running around, but it's still very good.

If you like playing Vault/Key, Seal will probably find it's way into a lot of your decks too.

I completely agree. It's also essential for Dark Ritual decks. Imperial Seal goes into almost every Ritual deck in Vintage.

I really appreciate the help! I guess I'll pass up on purchasing one! 

[H]

Japanese and Chinese ones are $350-400, and English ones are $600+. The card sucks in most decks, so you'd be much better off spending your hard earned money elsewhere on other staples.

This.  I didn't pick one up when they were $225/$275 and now I probably never will.

I've gone through a few over the course of the last few years.  I bought a Japanese one on Ebay back in the spring for $273, with shipping, and felt that it was horribly overpriced.  I then traded it and $75 worth of cards for an English Imperial Seal, feeling like an idiot for hating Asian cards and 'needing' and English one. 

I no longer feel like an idiot.

If I didn't already own the card I'd have a very hard time justifying the purchase.

Aren't you glad I hooked you up?

As far as the price goes, I decided I wanted to pick one up, I think about a year ago, after I had picked up most of my Power.

I was hunting eBay for a few months and an auction finally came up, which I bid aggressively and won for somewhere near $350.  Prospero asked me if I could get him one, in a trade for his Asian one, which I got off eBay about a month after that for about $375 or so, and like he said, I moved it to him for the Asian one (which I really didn't want) and somewhere near $75 in cards.  Funny enough, I traded the Asian one for 4 extra 'goyfs (to get me to 8) and 2 extra Jaces (for 6) or something like that.  It was later told to me that the whirlwind that is Alex Owen apparently traded the Asian seal for a bike, a dinner at a Chinese restaurant and something else completely irrelevant.  I followed the prices of English Seals on eBay and it seemed that they climbed about $50 a month until it's price of now about $700.  I am fairly certain that the one which sold right after the two I got sold for about $400.

As for it's playability, I feel it is best run in a deck where you run some way to draw what you search for immediately, for example Gush or something similar.

[Ten-Ten]

Imperial Seal isn't 700-800.  When looking at pricing you have to look at completed listings on EBay.  It's still in the 350 range.

whoa! Nice  
I picked up an Japanese Seal 'bout a two and a half years ago for $200 including shipping off ebay. for a hundred more I could have gotten an English version but the only ones I could find on ebay were in Thailand or Beijing, and my local shop is loaded on overpriced moxen but no Seals or Grim tutors in sight. Some didn't even know what card I was talking about  
Anyway, I went with the only american seller on ebay at that time selling a Seal and figured I would just trade or just buy an english ver. later...

Prices are absurd! the cheapest I see on ebay today is Japanese ver. $449.99+sh!/ english ver. $750+sh.

I find Seal more usefull in a deck looking to go broken ASAP (ANT/Long.dec, etc) or a deck that draws what you searched for imediately.
I originaly got my Imperial Seal for my TPS deck, back when it was still a deck  

Nowadays I find favor in instant draw before I look to any sorcery speed tutor.

[TheProfessor]

After much contemplation and testing of a few Gush lists, I found that I like playing Imperial Seal.  I really like it in conjunction with Yawgmoth's Will and its use in certain Gifts piles.

I decided to pick one up, and lucky found a sweet deal on a Chinese Imperial Seal (prefer Enlglish cards, but I cant justify that much of a price difference) for $380 shipped.  I know that I initially intended not to purchase one, but I finished my set of power and this was one of the last few things I wanted to pick up.

[Confidant001]

No one's mentioned this, but Imperial Seal probably gained and lost some playability with the printing of Snapcaster Mage depending on how you look at it. The obvious positive interaction is to use Snapcaster to recur Seal. On the negative side of things this line of play has to be done on your turn and it only puts it on top your library making it almost always inferior to Vampiric and Demonic. However, the aforementioned weakness was already inherent to Imperial Seal. A new argument against the use of Seal seems to be that you already have the ability to recur both Vampiric and Demonic Tutor, so why is it necessary to add in a third effect that is almost universally inferior?

Regarding the era of Mental Misstep and its impact on Imperial Seal, Snapcaster Mage seems to solve this as well. Additionally, such a deck running both Vampiric and Imperial Seal would likely be running Mental Misstep as well for protection. I played storm combo during the Mental Misstep era in Legacy and the best method I found for combating Mental Misstep was to play through it. Perhaps if you're worried about Mental Misstep and your deck is heavily reliant on resolving tutor effects, adding a third one in the form of Imperial Seal may be a way to overcome the presences of Misstep (combined with recurring it via Snapcaster Mage).

[Onslaught]

I agree, but again the usefulness of Seal is sort of contingent on having Duress effects. I've been playing a Ritual deck with Snapcasters, and regrowing Seal is pretty bonkers as long as you've had a look at their hand. Between Demonic Consultation, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Seal, and some Snapcasters, you can sculpt a lethal storm count pretty easily. Besides just stripping their counters for whatever game winners you put on top of your deck, you also wanna make sure they aren't in position to slam a Jace and completely blow you up with a Fateseal.

I've also been playing Suicide Jace Vault with Snapcasters added, and regrowing Seal in a deck with Vault/Key is pretty sick sometimes.