Why I am not going to Gencon this year.

[Klep]

So GenCon is just a couple weeks away, and Pastimes' unwillingness to disclose any of their security measures really has me doubting whether I should even bother bringing my power.  I almost never get to play Vintage, and it's a shame that I'm left to be too afraid to try. "Trust us, we will have security measures" just isn't anywhere near sufficient to justify the kind of risk we're talking about.

[The Atog Lord]

"Trust us, we will have security measures" just isn't anywhere near sufficient to justify the kind of risk we're talking about.

This is a very true statement.

[KrauserKrauser]

I know I will be taking no chances.  I normally bring a backpack filled with trade goods and a couple EDH decks with a fair amount money cards.  This year, it will just be my Vintage deck and a pile of sleeves for Limited play in one of those Slash proof travel satchels that I hope to keep on my body Indiana Jones style.

I still don't know why they can't just say, "We will be providing roped off areas for the Vintage and Legacy tournaments (prelims and championships) and will have dedicated judge staff to remove all bystanders from the event.  Spectators will not be allowed in the area."

Just that simple statement would assuage a bunch of fears and would likely be enough to foil a bunch of the theft.

I don't understand why pre-announcing the security measures is going to do anything other than make everything safer.

[TheProfessor]

I agree with the previous statements.  I am only bringing my deck, playmat/pen and paper, and maybe a few cards to get signed.  

The theft problem really bums me out because I would love to bring decks for other formats (EDH, Modern, and Legacy) and a binder or two to trade with.  I am also going to have to leave my building binder home so I wont be able to change my deck last minute if the one I decide to play doesnt perform well.

How safe is it to leave valuables in your hotel room? I would really like to feel comfortable bringing at least my building binder with me to.

[KrauserKrauser]

One thing is for certain, if Pastimes does not make an effort to remove spectators, I am going to be one ornery fellow to anyone "hanging around" the tables.

Expect profanity and accusations of thievery for anyone "just taking a look at the gamestate".

Sucks, but I would rather avoid losing thousands due to "courtesy" and "being nice".

If Pastimes can't be bothered to provide a safe playing environment, I don't feel like providing a comfortable environment for potential thieves.  Sorry for the innocent bystanders that might be offended, go tell Pastimes to implement some solid security and I'll go back to my more jovial self.

[Klep]

Well I had a brief interaction with Pastimes on twitter yesterday and they are committed to security through obscurity.  It's a real shame. I'd like to play Vintage but frankly their word that things will be secure just isn't enough for me, and their commitment to a failed and discredited security scheme does nothing to inspire confidence.

[Prospero]

Well I had a brief interaction with Pastimes on twitter yesterday and they are committed to security through obscurity.  It's a real shame. I'd like to play Vintage but frankly their word that things will be secure just isn't enough for me, and their commitment to a failed and discredited security scheme does nothing to inspire confidence.

I'm hesitant, but I was very protective of my stuff last year and I had nothing stolen from me.  I hope that Pastimes really does have proper measures in place.  Still, this is the biggest Vintage event of the year and this is the only format that I play.  If I skipped GenCon because I couldn't rationalize playing under those conditions, then why would I play Vintage at all?  The year is spent getting ready for this event.  Finishes before GenCon and after GenCon are nice, but this is the only tournament that really matters.

[Twaun007]

Well I had a brief interaction with Pastimes on twitter yesterday and they are committed to security through obscurity.  It's a real shame. I'd like to play Vintage but frankly their word that things will be secure just isn't enough for me, and their commitment to a failed and discredited security scheme does nothing to inspire confidence.

I'm hesitant, but I was very protective of my stuff last year and I had nothing stolen from me.  I hope that Pastimes really does have proper measures in place.  Still, this is the biggest Vintage event of the year and this is the only format that I play.  If I skipped GenCon because I couldn't rationalize playing under those conditions, then why would I play Vintage at all?  The year is spent getting ready for this event.  Finishes before GenCon and after GenCon are nice, but this is the only tournament that really matters.

Prospero, that post sums up exactly how I feel.

This is Vintage Worlds, the most important vintage tournament in America. It's our Bazaar of Moxen, our Eurovino, and it's the one time which you'll be immersed in pure vintage (no proxies). You get to battle mages while listening to the oohs and awes as Yawgmoth's Will resolves, when Black Lotus hits the table, when Mind's Desire gets fired off for 16.

Not only that, but it's the one event where the vintage community unites from around the country to meet, swap stories, battle 3v3, and share memories about past events.

Legends are made at GenCon.

 

[TheProfessor]

I'm hesitant, but I was very protective of my stuff last year and I had nothing stolen from me.  I hope that Pastimes really does have proper measures in place.  Still, this is the biggest Vintage event of the year and this is the only format that I play.  If I skipped GenCon because I couldn't rationalize playing under those conditions, then why would I play Vintage at all?  The year is spent getting ready for this event.  Finishes before GenCon and after GenCon are nice, but this is the only tournament that really matters.

I'm in the same boat.  I am just going to try to have fun and protect my stuff.

[The Atog Lord]

Well I had a brief interaction with Pastimes on twitter yesterday and they are committed to security through obscurity.  It's a real shame. I'd like to play Vintage but frankly their word that things will be secure just isn't enough for me, and their commitment to a failed and discredited security scheme does nothing to inspire confidence.

Pathetic. We their customers -- the people who trust them, pay them money, and travel hundreds of miles to attend their events -- deserve better than this.

Perhaps they're not going to do anything substantial about security, and they don't want to admit that. Or maybe they're still figuring out what to do about security, and are making up an excuse to avoid saying that despite a year of time to prepare, they still haven't figured anything out yet. Or maybe their understanding of security is so backward and wrong that they actually believe that "security through obscurity" will offer any protection for GenCon. I'm not sure why they're being so adamant in their silence about what they're doing to protect their paying customers, but in any case, their unwillingness to disclose their security planning is pathetic.

[Twaun007]

Well I had a brief interaction with Pastimes on twitter yesterday and they are committed to security through obscurity.  It's a real shame. I'd like to play Vintage but frankly their word that things will be secure just isn't enough for me, and their commitment to a failed and discredited security scheme does nothing to inspire confidence.

Pathetic. We their customers -- the people who trust them, pay them money, and travel hundreds of miles to attend their events -- deserve better than this.

Perhaps they're not going to do anything substantial about security, and they don't want to admit that. Or maybe they're still figuring out what to do about security, and are making up an excuse to avoid saying that despite a year of time to prepare, they still haven't figured anything out yet. Or maybe their understanding of security is so backward and wrong that they actually believe that "security through obscurity" will offer any protection for GenCon. I'm not sure why they're being so adamant in their silence about what they're doing to protect their paying customers, but in any case, their unwillingness to disclose their security planning is pathetic.

If you attended a drive in movie, went to the restroom and your car got stolen would you never attend a drive in movie again unless they upped the security?

If you went to a shoe store to get a new pair of kicks and your shoes got ganked while you were trying on a new pair, would you never go to a Shoe store again unless they upped the security?

If you went to school and someone stole your text books, would you stop attending class unless they upped the security?

If you went outside for a walk and were mugged, would you cease to go outside unless police presence was upped?


Sometimes bad things happen to good people and its not their fault, but to completely negate attending an event such as Vintage Worlds when one can take proper measures to ensure it doesn't happen again is very bazaar to me. If you're unable to take proper measures for some reason that's, of course, a different story. But I know you're a responsible enough person to look protect your belongings. That's why I'm so confused at your lack of attendance.

In reality, I guess the bad guys won again...... and I'm not talking about Meandeck.  

[The Atog Lord]

Well I had a brief interaction with Pastimes on twitter yesterday and they are committed to security through obscurity.  It's a real shame. I'd like to play Vintage but frankly their word that things will be secure just isn't enough for me, and their commitment to a failed and discredited security scheme does nothing to inspire confidence.

Pathetic. We their customers -- the people who trust them, pay them money, and travel hundreds of miles to attend their events -- deserve better than this.

Perhaps they're not going to do anything substantial about security, and they don't want to admit that. Or maybe they're still figuring out what to do about security, and are making up an excuse to avoid saying that despite a year of time to prepare, they still haven't figured anything out yet. Or maybe their understanding of security is so backward and wrong that they actually believe that "security through obscurity" will offer any protection for GenCon. I'm not sure why they're being so adamant in their silence about what they're doing to protect their paying customers, but in any case, their unwillingness to disclose their security planning is pathetic.

If you attended a drive in movie, went to the restroom and your car got stolen would you never attend a drive in movie again unless they upped the security?

If you went to a shoe store to get a new pair of kicks and your shoes got ganked while you were trying on a new pair, would you never go to a Shoe store again unless they upped the security?

If you went to school and someone stole your text books, would you stop attending class unless they upped the security?

If you went outside for a walk and were mugged, would you cease to go outside unless police presence was upped?


Sometimes bad things happen to good people and its not their fault, but to completely negate attending an event such as Vintage Worlds when one can take proper measures to ensure it doesn't happen again is very bazaar to me. If you're unable to take proper measures for some reason that's, of course, a different story. But I know you're a responsible enough person to look protect your belongings. That's why I'm so confused at your lack of attendance.

In reality, I guess the bad guys won again...... and I'm not talking about Meandeck.  

If I went to a drive-in movie, and audience there were victims of theft to the tune of $80,000 in a single weekend, then I would certainly not go back to that theater unless it changed its security policy. If I went outside and were mugged in a part of town where muggings were a frequent occurrence, then I or any other reasonable person would think twice before going to that part of town again, unless there was a clear assurance made that things had been improved.

Were I the sole victim of theft at GenCon last year, then I would not be reacting this way. The problem is that the theft of which I was a victim was part of an outbreak of thefts. At least four other people I know had cards stolen, as well as countless other victims that I have not met.

You could argue that we could have been more vigilant. But vigilance can do only so much. Even if you're watching your things, it is very difficult to react when someone grabs the cards sitting right in front of you on the table and runs off. It's not just backpacks. Even cards on the table are targets for these thieves. That's what happened to one person, and I was at the table when it happened. His deck was stolen in a split second, the thief disappearing into the horde of people always present at GenCon.

[KrauserKrauser]

Well that is very unfortunate.  It is very interesting that they were completely unwilling to discuss security with their customers going with what " they think is right"

Well I' m sure they thought they had sufficient measures in place last year and people were fleeced like.sheep.

It really sucks that I will have to be paying more attention to the people allowed behind me than the match I am playing.

Treating evreryone as a potential thief is the only altrrnative if they are not willing to isolate tournament players from railbirds.

[Klep]

If I skipped GenCon because I couldn't rationalize playing under those conditions, then why would I play Vintage at all?  The year is spent getting ready for this event.  Finishes before GenCon and after GenCon are nice, but this is the only tournament that really matters.

I agree with this sentiment, which is why it bothers me so much that Pastimes seems to be refusing to do anything to allay our concerns and/or has no idea how to provide proper security.  We deserve better for this event of all events.

[Pastimes]

Hello Everyone,

While Wizards of the Coast, Pastimes and Gen Con are NOT responsible for your belongings you obviously know that we do care about your cards, what has happened in the past and what we can do to help prevent future thefts.  We are trying to implement new obstacles for keeping the jerks out and the fun in.
  
Here is some information about security at Gen Con.

1.  We will have a designated area for the Legacy and Vintage Championships.  Spectators will not be allowed in these areas.  There will be identification procedures in place - please be patient as this is going to increase registration time.  For those of you who are frustrated by not being able to watch the matches - sorry, but this seemed like something that needed to be done.

2.  There will be security, both plain-clothed and uniformed, in the entire area of the TCG Hall.  This includes the area where the Championship events will be held.

3.  We have increased the play space by approximately 20% without adding tables or chairs.  This increase in space should help people be more aware of their surroundings - less pushing and shoving.  DO NOT LET PEOPLE STAND BEHIND YOU!!!

4.  Staff is being given extra information to help with spotting thieves (we have been successful with this at a few events).

This is what we can do.  Obviously, the number one defense against people having items stolen is going to be awareness by everyone - most importantly yourself - to safeguard your belongings.

  If someone is standing behind you or next to you - politely, ask them to move away.  If they do not, call a judge.  This is the number one place bags get stolen.  Clear your area before you get set up to play.

  When trading, pay attention to one trade at a time - do not "swap" binders.  First let them look at your cards, then look at theirs.  DO NOT leave cards on the table.

  If you must carry a backpack, not just your deck - then make certain it is in your possession all the time - under your feet, not under your seat.  Make sure all zippers are zipped before putting it out of sight.  Put your legs through the straps when you put your bag on the floor.  DO NOT put it under your seat - put it under your feet under the middle of the table.

  Do NOT count on a friend to watch your cards, your bag - anything.  How often do you hand over your wallet or lay down $1000 on the table and say "hey, watch this for me, willya...."

  If you suspect something "odd" is going on - call a judge.  It is much easier for us to watch for things going on then to try to find someone later.

  You may want to look into (google) the following items - put the "fob" in your deck box or back pack... (and no, we are not getting a cut if you buy one...)  

    Cobra BT 225 Tag Alarm
    or
    ZOMM Wireless Leash

  Bring only what you need.  And do not advertise your newly Beta/Foiled/Judge Promo Commander or Cube...  please do not invite the crooks to target you.

  Walk with friends.  The more the merrier.  Not only will this be more fun - it is safer.


Again, our goal is for everyone to have a good time and play some Magic.  Theft is about the least fun part of events - and it happens at events of all sizes.  When there is a lot of excitement, lack of sleep and many people you do not know - well, that makes it a little easier for the sleazy to accomplish their goals.  If we all try to be a bit more on our toes, and create barriers for the thieves, hopefully we can make it more difficult - and not worth it.  We are adding several expensive security measures - please help us by being alert, communicative and vigilant if you see something.

Thanks - and hope to see you in the TCG Hall during the best four days of gaming.

--
Alan Hochman | President
Pastimes
www.pastimes.net

[KrauserKrauser]

Alan, thank you for the response.  Those are some of the suggestions that we had been asking for and to get confirmation gives me valuable peace of mind.

Eliminating spectators, dedicated play areas and increased security presence should go a long way in prevebtibg or reducing the chances that we have a repeat of last year.

[Klep]

Thank you for posting this. This information makes me feel much more comfortable about playing in the event.

[BC]

Bunch of stuff.

Thank you for the detailed response.  Seriously, it's great.  I'm really really looking forward to Gencon.

[The Atog Lord]

1.  We will have a designated area for the Legacy and Vintage Championships.  Spectators will not be allowed in these areas.  There will be identification procedures in place - please be patient as this is going to increase registration time.  For those of you who are frustrated by not being able to watch the matches - sorry, but this seemed like something that needed to be done.

2.  There will be security, both plain-clothed and uniformed, in the entire area of the TCG Hall.  This includes the area where the Championship events will be held.

3.  We have increased the play space by approximately 20% without adding tables or chairs.  This increase in space should help people be more aware of their surroundings - less pushing and shoving.  DO NOT LET PEOPLE STAND BEHIND YOU!!!

4.  Staff is being given extra information to help with spotting thieves (we have been successful with this at a few events).

Dear Alan,

Thank you very much for posting this. I am really happy to see that you are taking steps to ensure that the Vintage and Legacy championships are safer and more enjoyable for all honest players. The measures that you have outlined here should help players feel confident in the Vintage and Legacy championships that you are running. And I think they should help make those two events safer for your customers. I'm really hoping that, with these security measures in place, the focus won't be on theft this year -- it will instead be on some great Eternal Magic.

Rich

[TheProfessor]

I cannot thank you enough for implementing the security measure's described above.  Not that I will be letting my guard down, but now I will have a little peace of mind going to GenCon and playing in the Vintage Championship.  I am definitely looking forward to a great 4 days of gaming!

[Prospero]

Alan, thank you for the response.  This definitely puts me more at ease and returns my focus to where it should be; playing Vintage.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

I'd like to make one suggestion that I haven't seen made yet, though I don't know how feasible it is..

If you're getting a hotel room close to the venue, leave most of your stuff there. It'll be a lot safer in a locked area. At GP: Montreal last year, my hotel room was maybe five minutes by foot from the site. Ten minutes round trip to drop stuff off and bring other stuff is not a big deal. If you're driving, leaving it in the car is a good idea, but make it hidden from easy view. For example, in the trunk with the parcel shelf covering it will help. In short: If they can't see it, they can't steal it. If you're taking your Vintage deck with you to the event, take the deck, dice, pen, notepad.. and leave everything else somewhere safe.

(I do overnights at a gas station. It's pretty common knowledge that I don't keep much money in my till at night, and it helps immensely being a deterrent from being robbed. Other sites have more floating around, and as a result become much more attractive to being robbed. The last time I was robbed was about five years ago, and I think that was largely because the main entry door was wide open rather than being locked, because the AC was down and it was too warm in the store. Otherwise.. people see me watching and paying attention, and know I don't have much.)

Just my two Sarpadian coppers
Mindstab Thrull

[aforce808]

Alan, thank you for giving me some peace of mind.  It was a little bit stressful to think about my cards being targeted by thieves that walk by my table while I play.  I'm relieved in knowing that steps for security are being taken.

Doug

[Twaun007]

Alan, thank you for the response. I'm sure that these security measures will help Vintage/Legacy champs to be a more enjoyable experience for the mtg community.

I look forward to seeing everyone at GenCon and I'll also be on the lookout for suspicious people..... and Meandeck. They wreak of Sith.   

[BaronSengir]

For all those going to GenCon I hope you have a lot of fun and thanks to Pastimes for beefing up security for all those that are there. I can't wait to see the recordings of the matches.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Not that I will be letting my guard down,

I still wouldn't recommend this. But it's great to know something is being done.

[Daenyth]

I can't attend Gencon this year due to logistical reasons, but were I going, that reply would really help my concerns. Thank you for taking care of your patrons!

[Son of Serra]

I am grateful to Pastimes for making these events more secure. After attending Vintage Champs for the first time last year, I was shocked to learn later how much theft occured. Since learning about last year's problems, I took out a personal articles insurance policy on my collection. I have to keep records of the cards in my collection and their current value, but I only have to list the ones that I want to insure. It's not hard to keep track of the cards worth $20 or more. My State Farm agent was very helpful in setting me up with a policy that cost about $150 a year and covers the estimated $25K retail value of my collection. I recommend talking with your insurance agent and setting up a similar policy if you cannot afford to loose your cards to theft (which is most of us). My agent had never covered Magic cards before, but they were happy to come up solutions that worked well for me. It's another layer of protection for this ongoing problem.

[mikekilljoy]

Looks like thie thread has gotten alot of attention outside of the Vintage crowd. Just got tweeted out by a few Magic Pros and crawling through Facebook as well.

[jpmeyer]

The automatic response to anyone that says "Well I'm going to make sure that I do XYZ to protect my cards":

1) Kenta's deck
2) Klug's computer