Serious Vintage - Ep. 1 - podcast

[GrandpaBelcher]

http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=3138

Welcome to the inaugural Serious Vintage Podcast! Episode 1 features #TEAMSERIOUS members Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher on Twitter) and Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), discussing the unrestriction of Burning Wish in Vintage, potential playables in Return to Ravnica, Sandusky Food options, and even tackle some questions from Twitter.

Please accept our apologies in advance for some of the sound quality on parts of this episode. There were some slight technical issues that will be ironed out going forward. Please let us know your thoughts on the Serious Vintage podcast below! What (or who) would you like to hear in future episodes? Every other week we'll plan on giving you our thoughts on Vintage as well as the added bonus of food and drink reviews. This should be a light-hearted romp through the Eternal wilderness, and we're looking forward to giving you the best that those idiots from Ohio can give. Thanks for listening!

Here's the timestamped table of contents for your listening ease and enjoyment:

0:38 - Burning Wish discussion
10:23 - Return to Ravnica breakdown
38:39 - The Team Serious Open
56:33 - Health of the Worldwide Vintage Metagame
1:06:06 - Restaurant Review Introduction

[Twaun007]

 One small step for Vintage.... One giant Leap for Team Serious....

Rumor has it you have an interview featuring Hip Hop Activist and Blue Mage Assassin Jerry "I'm a playa ain't no doubt... Hoes wanna know what I'm bout" Yang in the works?

May we get a confirmation?

[President Skroob]

One small step for Vintage.... One giant Leap for Team Serious....

Rumor has it you have an interview featuring Hip Hop Activist and Blue Mage Assassin Jerry "I'm a playa ain't no doubt... Hoes wanna know what I'm bout" Yang in the works?

May we get a confirmation?

If you can find an evening when Jerry would rather talk about Magic than play Diablo 3, it can be arranged.

[boggyb]

Thanks so much! Looking forward to this series.

[Troy_Costisick]

Excellent!  I was just wishing there was another vintage podcast.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

There was a question or two about Danny's list from gencon that came up in the cast in regards to treasure find. No it didn't run regrowth, if anyone is curious about the list I could paste it from cockatrice. It favored the revival because you can use it to redo a turn one bomb on turn two with pierce or fluster storm back up. also, activating oath and fishing out time walk in upkeep for FREE was pretty relevant. If he and I were rebuilding the deck, we would defiantly test this Treasure Find, and it would probably replace the revival, but it wouldn't be played for the same reasons. I personally would assume its a one or two of behind regrowth, replacing vault/key and something. It could really up the deck's late game a bit. Admittedly, I'm completely speculating on the card. If anyone wants, I could also point Danny to this thread to talk about noxious revival, I know he's got a few different opinions about the card (like playing a million of it), or Treasure Find (he was talking about wanting to be more active in the vintage community, and on the drain more, recently).


Also, I dug the super serious vibe on this cast. Keep it up!
Also, I couldn't agree more about izzet charm.

[President Skroob]

There was a question or two about Danny's list from gencon that came up in the cast in regards to treasure find. No it didn't run regrowth, if anyone is curious about the list I could paste it from cockatrice. It favored the revival because you can use it to redo a turn one bomb on turn two with pierce or fluster storm back up. also, activating oath and fishing out time walk in upkeep for FREE was pretty relevant. If he and I were rebuilding the deck, we would defiantly test this Treasure Find, and it would probably replace the revival, but it wouldn't be played for the same reasons. I personally would assume its a one or two of behind regrowth, replacing vault/key and something. It could really up the deck's late game a bit. Admittedly, I'm completely speculating on the card. If anyone wants, I could also point Danny to this thread to talk about noxious revival, I know he's got a few different opinions about the card (like playing a million of it), or Treasure Find (he was talking about wanting to be more active in the vintage community, and on the drain more, recently).


Also, I dug the super serious vibe on this cast. Keep it up!
Also, I couldn't agree more about izzet charm.

Danny responded via Twitter:

No Regrowth, 1 Noxious Revival. If I have 1 blue mana, EOT Ancestral w/Misstep backup and my opponent FOWs my spell, if I end of turn NR for Ancestral, I can do it again all with 1 blue mana. It needs to be free. Freeness of N. Revival is especially important when you Oath over brokenness, get GB & can NR pre-draw!

I asked him if he'd play more and he responded:

I was thinking about it. I’m still looking for the room for it. It enables the most degenerate plays ever.

#MostDegeneratePlays

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

he does love his looter ilkor.... soooo much

[psyburat]

Although I'm looking forward to actually finishing the podcast, I was a bit thrown by a factual error a mere 1:20, citing that there were no red rituals when Burning Wish was banned and that Seething Song was printed in 2005.  This may have been addressed a mere 10 seconds later, and I don't mean to come off as a Karl Van Hœt, but I definitely cringed when I heard that so early in the recording.

[President Skroob]

Although I'm looking forward to actually finishing the podcast, I was a bit thrown by a factual error a mere 1:20, citing that there were no red rituals when Burning Wish was banned and that Seething Song was printed in 2005.  This may have been addressed a mere 10 seconds later, and I don't mean to come off as a Karl Van Hœt, but I definitely cringed when I heard that so early in the recording.

You're right. I saw Seething Song in 9th Edition and didn't look at the other sets it was in (like Mirrodin!). Mirrodin was released in October 2003, so there were about three months when they coexisted before Burning Wish was restricted. I was doing some hurried research as I was sorting out technical difficulties right before the show and it looks like I didn't finish my homework.

There's another bonk later on in that discussion when we talk about Sorcery speed solutions to Dredge. We couldn't come up with any, but Jaco pointed out to us that Morningtide exists (1W Sorcery to removal all yards from the game if anyone else is also unfamiliar with the card).

Just remember that whenever you pick out mistakes like this, you can always just call us out on TMD for being idiots. 

[desolutionist]

Thanks for the podcast guys I have a couple thoughts:

You said that no one is going to keep Yawgmoth's Will in their sideboard because "you can't draw it and it that sucks".

While you may not have a direct way of getting or drawing Yawgmoth's Will, you actually have more ways of getting Yawgmoth's Will.  A Gifts pile of Burning Wish, Demonic, Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Black Lotus always gets Yawgmoth's Will.  So to me, the only issue is whether that extra mana cost is worth being able to get Will whenever you want.  Additionally, drawing a Yawgmoth's Will, with no graveyard, isn't very good; drawing a Burning Wish (Graveyard or No Graveyard), is never bad.

[President Skroob]

Thanks for the podcast guys I have a couple thoughts:

You said that no one is going to keep Yawgmoth's Will in their sideboard because "you can't draw it and it that sucks".

While you may not have a direct way of getting or drawing Yawgmoth's Will, you actually have more ways of getting Yawgmoth's Will.  A Gifts pile of Burning Wish, Demonic, Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Black Lotus always gets Yawgmoth's Will.  So to me, the only issue is whether that extra mana cost is worth being able to get Will whenever you want.  Additionally, drawing a Yawgmoth's Will, with no graveyard, isn't very good; drawing a Burning Wish (Graveyard or No Graveyard), is never bad.

Do you actually have more ways of getting Yawgmoth's Will? I'm not sure. If you play Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Yawgmoth's Will, you already have as many ways of getting Yawgmoth's Will as you do playing 4x Burning Wish with Yawgmoth's Will in the sideboard.

In the end, I do think it's possible we were overly dismissive of sideboarding Yawgmoth's Will for use as a Burning Wish target. Ultimately, it all comes down to how you design your deck, how you want to use Burning Wish, and how you want to use Yawgmoth's Will.

[desolutionist]

Demonic Tutor -> Burning Wish counts as a way. So in all you have 3 more ways. Could you imagine a deck with thought scours and fact or fictions with 7 ways to get will? I can

[President Skroob]

Demonic Tutor -> Burning Wish counts as a way. So in all you have 3 more ways

Technically, yes. That seems terrible, though. Two mainphase Sorceries for a third mainphase Sorcery, totaling 4BBR?

[Smmenen]

I listened to the first half the other night and was frustrated that you guys didn't remember M10 as the rules change and Morningtide as a sorcery gy hoser.  Still, was enjoyable

[Cruel Ultimatum]

Demonic Tutor -> Burning Wish counts as a way. So in all you have 3 more ways

Technically, yes. That seems terrible, though. Two mainphase Sorceries for a third mainphase Sorcery, totaling 4BBR?

While this is true, it is worh noting that if you power it through rituals/led/lotus you recoup some of the mana with the yawg will.

[Twaun007]

The problem with having Will, Tinker, Tendrils, etc... in the board is that it doesn't stream line the deck. Lets take a look at deck's that ran wishes then moved their wish targets to the main.

Deathlong replaced the Death Wishes with Grim Tutors.
GAT had a Cunning Wish, but it was eventually cut.
Demarsian Burning Slaver eventually cut its Burning Wish for a Tendrils and other stuff in the main.
The Gifts Ungiven decks became faster when Burning Wish was cut and put Tendrils in the main.

These decks evolved through testing and tournament play and eventually incorporated their win conditions in the main. Now, I'm not sure that Burning Wish isn't busted, I'm just not seeing it as a valid strategy/option from results of the past.

[madmanmike25]

This is the best version of Low Rider I've ever heard!  Keep up the good work