Informer/Spy

[median]

I haven't seen any discussion on a list using balustrade spy/under city informer in vintage yet outside of the spoiler thread. I think that there's a lot of potential here so I thought I would start this up.
 

The idea is to play one of these guys with no land in your deck, you mill your entire library and put 3-4 nacromoebas onto the battlefield. Then cast a Dread Return from your graveyard and win with one of several win conditions.
So far the best viable win conditions are,

Sutured Ghoul + Dragon Breath (two cards, most compact kill)
Laboratory Maniac + Angel of Glory's Rise + Azami, Lady of Scrolls (one more card but does not require attack step and is immune to removal)

Others that work but aren't as good are,

Kiki-jiki +karmic guide+ pestermite (requires attck step, three cards)
Reveilark+mogg fanatic+body double+carrion feeder (four cards, target a player)
The Mimeoplasm + Triskelion/murderous redcap+ sutured ghoul/lord of extinction (targets a player)
Flame-Kin Zealot+2x Bridge from below (requires attack step)

It is also desirable to have Cabal Therapy in your deck in case you draw a combo piece. Bridge From Below is important too in case you need to discard a combo piece and need to keep creatures in play to cast Dread Return.

So far the best shell proposed has been a 0 mana belcher style build that focuses on a turn zero win (although mana severance and playing controll is also an option), for reference here's Lochinvar81's (very old) 0 land Belcher list,

4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Empty the Warrens
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Tinker
1x Timetwister

4x Goblin Welder
4x Guttural Response
4x Street Wraith
4x Manamorphose

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Rite of Flame
4x Tinder Wall
3x Chrome Mox*
1x Channel
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Grim Monolith

Sideboard
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Storm Entity
2x Pyroblast
1x Gaea’s Blessing

Taken from http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37138.0;wap2

The obvious evolution would be to remove the unneeded cards and put in the chaff and new cards, creating something like this,

4x undercity informer
4x ballistrade spy
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Tinker
1x Timetwister

4x narcoemoba
4x Guttural Response
1x dread return
1x bridge from below
1x cabal therapy
1x sutured ghoul
1x dragon breath
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x dark ritual
4x Tinder Wall
4x Chrome Mox
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
4 summoner's pact

If I was to play this however I would use Leyline of Anticipation in place of Guttural Reponse (It blanks everything but Force of Will even on the draw and helps against workshops). I would also use Hermit Druid in place of the draw 7's.

I would play something like this,

4x undercity informer
4x ballistrade spy
4 hermit druid
4x narcoemoba
4x leyline of anticipation
1x dread return
1x bridge from below
2x cabal therapy
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 angel of glory's rise
1 laboratory maniac
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x dark ritual
4x wild cantor
3x Chrome Mox
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
4 summoner's pact

[serracollector]

Leyline is very nice tech.  Flash style. 

only changes I would make is
-1 esg
-1 ssg
-1 cantor
+3 mox opal

[TheWhiteDragon]

How is it testing?  I have found that old hermit builds with nonbasic land and a more solid disruption/gameplan is just better.  This is too inconsistent and hosable for me.  A single mental misstep on a ritual can end your turn and keep you off 4 mana indefinitely while you do nothing else.

[median]

How is it testing?  I have found that old hermit builds with nonbasic land and a more solid disruption/gameplan is just better.  This is too inconsistent and hosable for me.  A single mental misstep on a ritual can end your turn and keep you off 4 mana indefinitely while you do nothing else.

This is faster than hermit and that's the main advantage. You are easily disrupted with this deck (hermit wasn't strong in this regard either), but the main advantage is that you can avoid flusterstorm/thoughtseize/trinisphere (the key early plays that gave hermit problems).
This deck does still need work, Leyline on anticipation is my main addition of tech (try pacting for hermit on the draw with it out). I would love to hear other insights on how this can be more competitive.

I urge you to goldfish the bottom list if your worried about consistency. Winning isn't a problem, winning through hate is. 

[Oath of Happy]

Pact of negation might be better than guttural response since your going to win all in one turn anyway.

[Samoht]

Hermit Driud decks could pack FoW, Drain, Duress, and really anything else because they aren't required to play no lands, simply no basics. This deck can't play those cards, so it is a bigger glass cannon with less consistency. Not sure why it's better. I see it's value for Modern with the slower metagame and a dirth of combo decks, but methinks it's not for Vintage.

[TheWhiteDragon]

How is it testing?  I have found that old hermit builds with nonbasic land and a more solid disruption/gameplan is just better.  This is too inconsistent and hosable for me.  A single mental misstep on a ritual can end your turn and keep you off 4 mana indefinitely while you do nothing else.

This is faster than hermit and that's the main advantage. You are easily disrupted with this deck (hermit wasn't strong in this regard either), but the main advantage is that you can avoid flusterstorm/thoughtseize/trinisphere (the key early plays that gave hermit problems).
This deck does still need work, Leyline on anticipation is my main addition of tech (try pacting for hermit on the draw with it out). I would love to hear other insights on how this can be more competitive.

I urge you to goldfish the bottom list if your worried about consistency. Winning isn't a problem, winning through hate is. 

This isn't faster than hermit on the whole.  It can win on turn 1, but often mulligans and just gets crap - so it's faster 10% of the time, and as fast or slower the rest.  Hermit is MUCH more resilient to hate.  Even with LotV out, it still has the tinker BSC plan with a ton of free counters.  I always ran my list with 3-4 daze and 4 foW + some amount of misstep.  Also, 2 mana + lands is VERY easy to achieve, even though you need to wait 1 turn.  4 mana with no lands is MUCH harder to achieve.  Also, a trini or chalice @0 or 1 or even a single sphere is typically gg - whereas with hermit, you can totally play through that.  I got excited when this was spoiled and bought my foil playsets...but now I realize these cards are crap.  Hermit is just infinitely better.  A deck that can win a turn earlier on rare occasion in a goldfish, but gets consistently blown out vs hate is NOT a better deck.  Hermit didn't like to see hate, but it didn't roll to it - it was more like dredge in this regard.

[median]

Hermit Driud decks could pack FoW, Drain, Duress, and really anything else because they aren't required to play no lands, simply no basics. This deck can't play those cards, so it is a bigger glass cannon with less consistency. Not sure why it's better. I see it's value for Modern with the slower metagame and a dirth of combo decks, but methinks it's not for Vintage.

I would love to play this in modern if someone got it working, but I see this being the next flash in legacy. I think it has vintage potential though, and I love winning on turn 1/0.

Pact of negation might be better than guttural response since your going to win all in one turn anyway.

I think the reasoning for guttural response in the belcher shell over pact was that empty the warrens was a win condition. Pact makes a lot of sense here.

This isn't faster than hermit on the whole.  It can win on turn 1, but often mulligans and just gets crap - so it's faster 10% of the time, and as fast or slower the rest.  Hermit is MUCH more resilient to hate.  Even with LotV out, it still has the tinker BSC plan with a ton of free counters.  I always ran my list with 3-4 daze and 4 foW + some amount of misstep.  Also, 2 mana + lands is VERY easy to achieve, even though you need to wait 1 turn.  4 mana with no lands is MUCH harder to achieve.  Also, a trini or chalice @0 or 1 or even a single sphere is typically gg - whereas with hermit, you can totally play through that.  I got excited when this was spoiled and bought my foil playsets...but now I realize these cards are crap.  Hermit is just infinitely better.  A deck that can win a turn earlier on rare occasion in a goldfish, but gets consistently blown out vs hate is NOT a better deck.  Hermit didn't like to see hate, but it didn't roll to it - it was more like dredge in this regard.

What actually attracted me to this strategy was the similarity to hermit druid. I have long been a fan of hermit druid and wrote a primer for the deck years ago ( http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39844.0 ).
If you liked hermit I really urge you to give this a try, you will get hands that don't win on the spot, -Mulligan those. Your safe to go down to five cards and win easily, below that you will probably only win with a hand of hermit druid + 2 mana sources. In terms of consistency Ichorid really needs a bazaar and a dredger to start out. the worst case scenario for this deck is a hermit and 2 mana sources, although a spy/informer and 3-4 mana works too. I put the consistency of this deck in a vacuum at about the same as Ichorid. With the trade off's being outside of a vacuum consistency isn't everything.    

[TheWhiteDragon]

What actually attracted me to this strategy was the similarity to hermit druid. I have long been a fan of hermit druid and wrote a primer for the deck years ago ( http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39844.0 ).
If you liked hermit I really urge you to give this a try, you will get hands that don't win on the spot, -Mulligan those. Your safe to go down to five cards and win easily, below that you will probably only win with a hand of hermit druid + 2 mana sources. In terms of consistency Ichorid really needs a bazaar and a dredger to start out. the worst case scenario for this deck is a hermit and 2 mana sources, although a spy/informer and 3-4 mana works too. I put the consistency of this deck in a vacuum at about the same as Ichorid. With the trade off's being outside of a vacuum consistency isn't everything.    

It obviously is similar, and as I said, I've bought my playsets and tried infinite combonations with this deck - even netdecking this one.  The problem is that a vaccuum shows me nothing.  I can turn 1 win off about 1000 different decks in a vaccuum.  In reality though, a majority of those decks get clobbered - including this one.  This deck is more consistent in a goldfish world, but when you face spheres, counters, leylines, cages, etc., traditional hrmit is MUCH more resilient.

[median]

Just realized you can pull this off with Entomb + Unearth. This reduces mana cost and adds more business parts to the deck. It also makes draw sevens better since you are likely to hit an Entomb at some point in you first or second hand. All you really need to worry about is the Unearth.

[Samoht]

Just realized you can pull this off with Entomb + Unearth. This reduces mana cost and adds more business parts to the deck. It also makes draw sevens better since you are likely to hit an Entomb at some point in you first or second hand. All you really need to worry about is the Unearth.

Why aren't we playing Griselbrand instead then?