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Author Topic: Type 5 (Fair Nuclear Magic)  (Read 2430 times)
TheWhiteDragon
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« on: March 09, 2013, 08:17:01 pm »

So I have always been intrigued by the idea of Type 4, but it had a few things I did not like.  For one, knowledge of the 200 cards benefits the pile's creator (you might know of certain combos that are not clearly revealed in the 14 flip that will come later on).  Secondly, decks can be lopsided depending on deck construction (and balance can be skewed if the non-creator doesn't know how many counters, removal, etc exist in the pile).  Lastly, the deck takes darn near infinity to get started (drafting 200 cards among people who aren't familiar with every card in your pile).  It also removed a fun aspect of interaction that I embedded in this new format.

While flipping through my folder of completely unplayable cards, I saw how awesome some could be given infinite mana.  I also wanted to be able to bring a pile of 200 to any shop and get a group to play without them needing much prior knowledge of the cards and not giving advantage to the superior drafter and that could be started immediately, not an hour later (I really dislike drafting in general anyway).

One of the benefits of this format is that it is completely fair, and luck + playskill are the only determinants (no deck building).  It is crazy fun as it shares the one-spell-a-turn limit with infinite mana at all times.  It is super cheap as fantastic cards (crowd favorites, flowstone overseer, etc.) are like 10 cent cards.  It's fast to start - just plop down the shuffled 200 cards and start playing.  Lastly, it adds an incredibly fun element of interaction - one shared library and graveyard!

The rules are similar to Type 4 as far as game play:

1. One spell a turn
2. Infinite mana at all times
3. Cards retain their types (sorceries on your turn, instants at any time, etc.)
4. High roll plays and play continues clockwise
5. All players start at 20 life

In addition to the Type 4 play style, there are a few changes:

6. All players start with 7 cards (7 card max hand size)
7. There is one shared graveyard and one shared library
8. Players draw their 7 cards off the top like poker (1 to the starting player, 1 to the next, and around clockwise until all have 7)
9. When a library empties, the graveyard gets shuffled and becomes the new library (nobody can die from having no library to draw from)

Deck construction can include your most fun Timmy cards!  Otherwise worthless cards take on a fantastic value due to the shared library/graveyard.

1. 200 cards, highlander (30 of each color, 30 multicolor - including hybrid mana, 20 colorless - artifact, eldrazi, or land cards)
a. Cards like phyrexian metamorph or ancestral visions count as blue, not artifact/colorless

2. All Vintage legal cards are legal except for the following:
a. Cards that target a player with X in the cost (braingeyser, mind twist, fireball, earthquake, etc.)
b. Cards that pseudo-X spell an opponent (firebreathing, shivan dragon, goblin charbelcher, etc.)
c. Cards that let you draw your deck to a near infinite level (browse, griselbrand, yawg bargain, etc. - Jayemdae tome and such are just fine)
d. Cards that just intuitively seem like they'd 1-shot win the game - subjective judgement - like Emrakul (cards like BSC are okay as they are very answerable)

And that's it!  It's a blast to grab a random 2 or 3 or more people and begin a game immediately. Here is a pile that I currently play (though you can use any 200 you want).  I'll even highlight some cards that are fantastic with a shared library*/graveyard#.  Obviously counterspells, wrath spells, masticore critters, etc. are still lovely to include en mass.  Whatever you can find in your crap binder will probably work!

Black (30):
Phyrexian Gargantuan
Flayed Nim
Misinformation#*
Visara the Dreadful
Phage, the Untouchable
Dauthi Mindripper
Oversold Cemetery#
Pit Spawn
Urborg Uprising#
Scion of Darkness#
Cabal Surgeon#
Dance of the Dead#
Animate Dead#
Big Game Hunter
Minion of Tevesh Szat
Phyrexian Obliterator
Ashes to Ashes
Faceless Butcher
Forbidden Crypt#
Cruel Revival#
Forced March
Phyrexian Reclamation#
Phthisis
Sutured Ghoul#
Agonizing Memories*
Royal Assassin
Zombie Mob#
Diabolic Servitude#
Locust Miser
Ihsan's Shade

Blue (30):
Control Magic
Illusions of Grandeur
Silver Wyvern
Sower of Temptation
Homarid Shaman
Deep Spawn
Essence Fracture
Morphling
Fact or Fiction*
Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor
Repeal
Crystal Seer*
Confiscate
Dissipate
Dominate
Exclude
Future Sight*
Assert Authority
Thirst for Knowledge
Discombobulate*
Meddle
Dream Cache*
Deep-Sea Kraken
Inkwell Leviathan
Counterspell
Brainstorm*
Repel*
Aven Fateshaper*
Take Possession
Ertai, Wizard Adept

White (30):
Ivory Gargoyle
Gallantry
Mangara of Corondor
Chastise
Eye for an Eye
Stonecloaker
Crowd Favorites
Retribution of the Meek
Reya Dawnbringer#
Wrath of God
Blazing Archon
Reverse Damage
Sword to Plowshares
Hail of Arrows
Prismatic Circle
Altar of Light
Reborn Hero#
Ancestor's Chosen#
Mistmoon Griffin#
Jareth, Leonin Titan
Chant of Vitu-Ghazi
Iona, Shield of Emeria
False Prophet
Resurrection#
Surprise Deployment
Akroma's Blessing
Winds of Wrath
Treasure Hunter#
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Invulnerability

Red (30):
Shattering Pulse
Rock Slide
Anarchy
Inferno
Aladdin
Jokulhaups
Hammerheim Deadeye
Relentless Assault
Primitive Justice
Worldgorger Dragon
Flowstone Overseer
Anarchist#
Threaten
Eron the Relentless
Rorix Bladewing
Grab the Reins
Act of Aggression
Rakavolver
Firemaw Kavu
Fortune Thief
Flowstone Slide
Ignite Memories
Last-ditch Effort
Fling
Dead/Gone
Viashino Sandstalker
Tin-street Hooligan
Burnout
Pyroblast
Stingscourger

Green (30):
Saporoloth Ancient
Sprout Swarm
Fierce Empath*
Storm Front
Symbiotic Deployment
Krosan Groundshaker
Tunneler Wurm
Sylvan Library*
Tranquil Grove
Summoning Trap*
Resuscitate
Symbiotic Wurm
Serpentine Basilisk
Child of Gaea
Molder
Thriss, Nantuko Primus
Symbiotic Beast
Weatherseed Treefolk
Deadly Insect
Silklash Spider
Penumbra Wurm
Cockatrice
Indrik Stomphowler
Venomspout Brackus
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Thorn Elemental
Vines of Vastwood
Overrun
Noxious Revival#*
Beast Within

Multicolor (30):
Rakdos Charm
Grim Feast#
Rubina Soulsinger
Dralnu, Lich Lord#
Iridescent Angel
Shielding Plax
Chromium
Paladia-Mors
Aether Mutation
Pernicious Deed
Vhati il-Dal
Zur the Enchanter*
Hymn of Rebirth#
Delirium
Savage Twister
Psychatog#
Progenitus
Simic Sky Swallower
Phantom Nishoba
Reflect Damage
Razia, Boros Archangel
Kaervek's Purge
Sarcatog#
Necrotic Sliver
Vindicate
Sen Triplets
Guiding Spirit#*
Mindleech Mass
Crime/Punishment#
Squee's Revenge

Colorless (20):
Adakar Sentinel
Volrath's Laboratory
Gauntlets of Chaos
Echo Chamber
Cursed Totem
Helm of Obedience*
Sensei's Divining Top*
Lightning Greaves
Aladdin's Ring
Panacea
Null Brooch
Temporal Aperture*
Quicksilver Amulet
Pentagram of the Ages
Mindslaver
Jayemdae Tome
Citanul Flute*
Nevinyrral's Disk
Duplicant
Darksteel Colossus

So you probably notice that almost all of the cards are utter crap in any format outside of an infinite mana format.  Also, you may find that already great cards (brainstorm, sensei, sylvan, etc.) are even MORE broken with a shared library.  Similarly, the grave fills fast and cards like Urborg Uprising can just be insanely good.  The entire 200 card deck probably costs $10 to make if you do it right.  I have a few studs like Iona, Wrath of God, Akroma that drive up the price ever so slightly, but those could easily be filled with worthless cards with a similar effect.

You may question some seemingly less powerful choices (Shielding Plax, vanilla critters, etc.), but remember the effect those cards have on a shared library.  For example, Plax lets you draw a card - useful when your opponent casts a spell like misinformation, stacking the next draw and the third draw as the best cards with one dud in the middle.  They also provide fodder for things like brainstorm so you can give the opponent a less-than-broken spell, while stacking the best for yourself.  The vanillas (like deadly insects) are not broken, but fully capable of getting the job done.

One nice thing about this format, is you can ratchet the power level of the library up or down - but beware, the blowout plays you look forward to making can easily be drawn by your opponent!  Also, you can add more or less cards that take advantage of the shared library/grave.  Admittedly, this is one of the most fun aspects of the game.  When my opponent casts a Hymn of Rebirth to snag the Flowstone Overseer they managed to kill on my EoT, it's insanely fun to tap my quicksilver Amulet to drop Sarcatog and suck that grave dry in response!!!  I tried to include a fair smattering of cards that interact based on that rule, but left a good amount of beaters and sweepers and combat tricks to keep other aspects of the game fun.  I hope you enjoy this new format and would love to see some of your piles.  I just KNOW some people are going to fill their pile with great bombs like Legacy Weapon or Door to Nothingness and then realize that's risky when their opponent plops it down!
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Wagner
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 10:53:06 pm »

Not sure if this really needs a new name, just call it quick Type 4. 70% of the time when I play Type 4 with friends, we play between events of matches at a tournament and we just take a random pile and start playing a quick game, no deck building or anything, and yes, sometimes we do all end up playing from the same library.

A regular Type 4 stack works just fine for this also. As for the pile creator having an edge on drafts... it's really really far-fetched. Supposed there is a combo, you need to hope both pieces do end up in the piles (a typical draft will only use 20-30% of a bigger stack) and that you have first pick or that no one wants the other card. On top of all that, since games are free-for-all, assembling your combo can be difficult and pit everyone against you. Basically, the advantage is non-existant.

But, if you want to call this Type 5 with your friends, go ahead, just don't expect it to catch on.
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2013, 11:58:55 pm »

Fair enough - the advantages are slim for the creator, admittedly.  However, the shared library and graveyard are the big advantage to this version.  It makes for an amazing extra level of interaction.  Being able to manipulate opponent's draws with things like brainstorm and Aven Fateshifter are insane.  The ability to continuously recur the best killed critters played at any point in the game, yours or opponent's, is fantastic - as is countering their recursion with things like psychatog.

I don't think I'd call it type 4, just because it has such a huge new element to the game.  It really makes it so different from a traditional Type 4 game where you draft separate decks.  Games just play out so differently and the strategies/decision trees are different.

I understand that you may play some quick version of Type 4 with a shared library with your friends and just grabbing a pile from a stack...but that's not really type 4 - the rules become different.  It's like saying you're playing a very similar version of Vintage, but tweaking the B/R list slightly - and they call that Legacy.  If you change a format to have a VERY different rule then the traditional format, it is a different game.  Type 5 is similar to type 4 in that you have infinite mana and only 1 spell a turn...and then the game changes a bunch from there.  What you suggest is akin to saying all formats that allow for as many spells as your mana can cast when you don't have infinite mana should be the same format, even though the B/R list is the only difference.

Either way, call it what you want.  I just find it to be a blast and more fun than regular Type 4.  If you like games of magic that start without drafting and has levels of interaction from a shared library/grave - then Type 5 is awesome.  If you are a draft fan, then stick to Type 4.  A typical Type 4 stack may be fine to play type 5 with, but I specifically have otherwise awful cards that are amazing when sharing a library/grave (misinformation for example).  Type 4 decks won't typically have those kinds of cards because a shared library/grave is not usually in consideration when assembling a pile.
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 08:41:37 pm »

Type 5 is already the name of a format (I believe Paul invented this one as well). I don't have a Type 5 stack, so we just use Type 4. As far as I know, Type 5 is played like a normal game of Magic with the exception that you may play any card as a land that taps for that cards' specific mana cost. Two examples: Legacy Weapon would tap for 7 colorless mana and Conflux would tap for 3 {W} {U} {B} {R} {G}. It's a great way to play if you only have two or three players or if you don't feel like playing traditional Type 4.

Quote
I understand that you may play some quick version of Type 4 with a shared library with your friends and just grabbing a pile from a stack...but that's not really type 4 - the rules become different.

What exactly do you mean? We play Type 4 with the same rules whether we draft or grab random piles. Are you saying your playgroup changes the rules based on how decks are constructed? Or that Type 4 has to be drafted?
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 10:58:32 pm »

Well - the name is fairly insignificant.  It can be Type 5, Nuclear Magic, or whatever.  The MAIN difference that I incorporate in the format is the shared library and grave.  The games play very differently that way.  As far as type 4, I always saw it drafted, and never saw it with a shared library/grave.  The one spell a turn/infinite mana/highlander are the 3 things that remain common between Type 4 and whatever you want to call this new format.  I'm not sure how Type 4 can be considered Type 4 with or without drafting, with or without a shared library, with or without a shared grave, or with or without a set number of cards in hand, cards in a deck, etc.  That's a REALLY liberal definition of Type 4.  I see that as saying Standard is the same format as Vintage with a limited card pool.

I'm not big on a name - if you want to call it rainbow, shared deck, type 4, I don't care.  The point is that it plays very different than any Type 4 game I'm used to.  I usually see type 4 drafted, and never saw one with a shared grave/library with a library that is never ending (take that painter/stone!).  Also, most piles I've seen have no color determinants, but are just random piles of broken that can be 60% green if it so chooses.

It's a new approach to an infinite mana format from anything I've seen.  If something else has the same rules, then my apologies for posting.  If any variant of infinite mana format is automatically Type 4, then just call it what you will.
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2013, 11:53:24 pm »

It's a new approach to an infinite mana format from anything I've seen.  If something else has the same rules, then my apologies for posting.  If any variant of infinite mana format is automatically Type 4, then just call it what you will.

Ah, I see now that our Type 4 experiences greatly differ. I would say that our playgroup is similar to Wagner's. The vast majority of the time we'll just grab a random stack to save time and occasionally play with a shared library and graveyard. I don't know of any other variant with your specific rules. Type 5 is actually a totally different game than Type 4, in my opinion, since you aren't limited to one spell per turn and don't have infinite mana. They both boil down to playing ridiculous, over-costed bombs but play differently enough to make it feel like you're playing a different format. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your new take on Type 4.
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 06:15:06 pm »

It's a new approach to an infinite mana format from anything I've seen.  If something else has the same rules, then my apologies for posting.  If any variant of infinite mana format is automatically Type 4, then just call it what you will.

Ah, I see now that our Type 4 experiences greatly differ. I would say that our playgroup is similar to Wagner's. The vast majority of the time we'll just grab a random stack to save time and occasionally play with a shared library and graveyard. I don't know of any other variant with your specific rules. Type 5 is actually a totally different game than Type 4, in my opinion, since you aren't limited to one spell per turn and don't have infinite mana. They both boil down to playing ridiculous, over-costed bombs but play differently enough to make it feel like you're playing a different format. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your new take on Type 4.

I still find that very weird to say "our Type 4 experiences differ greatly".  That's like me saying "My Vintage experience is very different from yours - my playgroup doesn't use P9 and plays with 4 brainstorm and 4 ponder, but all the other functions of the game are the same."
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 07:10:34 pm »

For someone who's only played Type 4 one way, sure, I bet it does sound weird to you. It would be no different from someone who has only played Kamigawa block Type 4 or only Pauper Type 4. There are lots of Type 4 variants out there. I'm certainly not saying there is a right or wrong way to play Type 4. I was simply saying that I thought most playgroups played Type 4 the way mine and Wagner's did/does. I think it's great that you're trying to introduce a twist on Type 4 to your playgroup.
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