Ral Zarek

[vaughnbros]

And here's the UR planeswalker...



His +1 has great utility by being a better than twiddle at sorcery speed. Worst case scenario its mana acceling best case its winning by comboing with time vault.
His -2 again has great utility since its Lightning Bolt.
His ultimate is not a guaranteed win, but should put you in great shape to do so.

I think this guy looks very playable.  He looks like pretty much an auto include in any deck running UR and time vault.

[gkraigher]

combos with time vault, kills jace.  Seems good enough for me. 

[Protoaddict]

All his abilities are relevant, and while the last one is finicky, even if you get 2 turns out of it, it is still amazing. Only think he cant really do is deal with blightsteel like Jace, but deals with smaller threats like delver and lodestone much better. Also infinite off time vault so yea.

Totally player in the format. I can easily imagine one or 2 copies of this in the main in any UR deck running time vault.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

^What he said. I feel like this thing gives you a reason to run time vault in a rug shell as well. Play this guy to force through goyf in certain matchups while protecting the walker as well as just doming someone for 6 by next turn, but if you rip vault, gg.

[Samoht]

Card is unplayable. Does nothing outside of two lightning bolts. I'd rather play Jace at 4 or Tezz for Vault interaction+Tutor.

[Saya]

Is better than JaceTMS?No.But I'd run Ral Zarek in place of 3rd~4th JTMS in decks with R.Because he is not Jace.

[tito del monte]

This is definitely a nice walker: as pointed out, can zap Jace, do nasty Time Vault things and is himself out of bolt range when he lands. Seems good to me! Certainly going to give him a try in some kind of tempo shell with added Vault, either RUG or Grixis, with plenty of untappable mana accel and maybe even Back to Basics?

What do people make of his preorder price on ebay? Worth buying now before hits Jace-like prices? I'm assuming he's going to playable in a lot of formats...

[xouman]

It is not a Jace by any means, and it's not a clear 1 turn wincon as tezz1, but I can see it similar to Tezz2: solid abilities with a decent cost. However Ral seems worse than Tezz2 in vintage and that's already not really played.

In other formats it could seem more play, so I expect its price to be at least 20$ until it gets out of standard.

[Protoaddict]

It is not a Jace by any means, and it's not a clear 1 turn wincon as tezz1, but I can see it similar to Tezz2: solid abilities with a decent cost. However Ral seems worse than Tezz2 in vintage and that's already not really played.

In other formats it could seem more play, so I expect its price to be at least 20$ until it gets out of standard.

Comparing this to Tezz 2 is not a good comparison. Tezz2 requires a heavy artifact shell and at least 1 turn before possibly going critical. plus being black is a big difference than being red.

Ral runs without so many artifacts if need be, Has an opps I win the game button with timevault, and is also a wincon with timevault himself (gain 20 loyalty with free turns, use ultimate for more than a few free turns, use extra turns to bolt, restart time vault engine).

Tezz 2 is much better in his own deck of course (such as legacy affinity) but he fits into a narrow selection of them, while I think ral fits into most lists that have his color, even as a 1 of.

[Pokey]

LOL @ 4cc lightning bolt!  I'll be sure to not play this card.

[orgcandman]

The new planeswalker is pure johnny territory right now.

It's not a great burn spell(not terrible, either). 2x lightning bolts for 2UR doesn't sound awesome, when a dominating force in the metagame is "your spells cost a billion more." I'd rather play lightning bolts, or volcanic hammers or something. True, he pitches to force.

It has no 'shell' it goes into where you can say "Man, I really need infinite twiddle, but not one of the existing infinite twiddles we have" and 3 turns of "Tap your perm on my turn" is tempo land. I don't know of any small beats army decks that want to pay 4 mana for tap effects.

Sure sure, you can timewalk after that, anywhere from 0-5 times and that could be relevant. But it's a turn 7 effect, earliest. In another format, I could see this being great. In EDH, it's another combo with timevault (if your group plays that). Otherwise, I think it's fringe playable in Vintage.

Of course, as soon as it's legal to play someone will top8 with it to make me look foolish.

[rpf5029]

C'mon, Samoht,  Unplayable?  No card is really unplayable.  This guy has his uses.

[Protoaddict]

It has no 'shell' it goes into where you can say "Man, I really need infinite twiddle, but not one of the existing infinite twiddles we have" and 3 turns of "Tap your perm on my turn" is tempo land. I don't know of any small beats army decks that want to pay 4 mana for tap effects.

Unlike Tezz or Key, what his does with his twiddle effect is allow you to tap out the board. I have seen people lose with Vault/Key in play many times because they could not punch through some thing on board fast enough and their confidant killed them. As as been said before, not only does Ral let you go infinite with vault Key, he lets you tap out your opponents mana sources in advance of it, which can help you win a counter war and even punch through blockers if need be. I think he occupies his own space in the meta and will probably never be more than a 1 of, but he will be a damn strong 1 of.

[Samoht]

It has no 'shell' it goes into where you can say "Man, I really need infinite twiddle, but not one of the existing infinite twiddles we have" and 3 turns of "Tap your perm on my turn" is tempo land. I don't know of any small beats army decks that want to pay 4 mana for tap effects.

Unlike Tezz or Key, what his does with his twiddle effect is allow you to tap out the board. I have seen people lose with Vault/Key in play many times because they could not punch through some thing on board fast enough and their confidant killed them. As as been said before, not only does Ral let you go infinite with vault Key, he lets you tap out your opponents mana sources in advance of it, which can help you win a counter war and even punch through blockers if need be. I think he occupies his own space in the meta and will probably never be more than a 1 of, but he will be a damn strong 1 of.

As long as their permanent untaps on the next turn, the tapping is wasted unless you are interacting in combat or on the stack with spells. As those situations are so limited in Vintage this card will have no impact on the meta game. I'm sure someone will include it in their 75 and eventually top 8, but that doesn't mean the card is the reason. There is a Dredge deck on file that won an event with Jace, the Mindsculptor listed. Explain to me how that is the right card for the deck's optimal build. Against Shops this costs too much. Against Blue I'd rather play Jace. Against Fish I'd rather play Pyroclasm. In Standard/Modern it might see play where there is a lot of combat, but not in Vintage.

[Stormanimagus]

This guy makes goyf a much better proposition in RUG Delver. Tap down your blocker, untap my goyf. Rinse repeat. I could definitely see RUG delver making great use of this guy.

-Storm

[DubDub]

This guy makes goyf a much better proposition in RUG Delver. Tap down your blocker, untap my goyf. Rinse repeat. I could definitely see RUG delver making great use of this guy.

-Storm

The timing to do this is impossible, assuming the tapped 'Goyf you're referring to is tapped because it attacked.  Planeswalker abilities happen at sorcery speed.  So you can either tap a blocker pre-combat (and untap a land or something) or untap your goyf post-combat (and tap something of theirs, probably also a land...?).

[rpf5029]

As long as their permanent untaps on the next turn, the tapping is wasted unless you are interacting in combat or on the stack with spells. As those situations are so limited in Vintage this card will have no impact on the meta game. I'm sure someone will include it in their 75 and eventually top 8, but that doesn't mean the card is the reason. There is a Dredge deck on file that won an event with Jace, the Mindsculptor listed. Explain to me how that is the right card for the deck's optimal build. Against Shops this costs too much. Against Blue I'd rather play Jace. Against Fish I'd rather play Pyroclasm. In Standard/Modern it might see play where there is a lot of combat, but not in Vintage.

I think that his ability to do well is situational, but that's far from making him unplayable.  He seems very versatile to me.  His tapping down opposing permanents isn't going to be relevant many times since they untap normally -- I'll give you that -- but it has its corner cases.  As mentioned before, you can tap down opposing mana and sneak into the second main phase to try and dodge some counter spells.  Tapping down something like Mana Vault or Black Lotus is pretty hilarious.  Tapping down City of Brass is also pretty funny.  You can tap down blockers to punch through a Blightsteel / Bob / Snapcaster, too.  

I think that focusing on that ability is not the way to go, however.  Being able to do those things is nice, but it should be more about what Ral can do FOR you, and not TO your opponent.  Besides the most obvious thing -- untap Time Vault -- Ral can do some other cute things.  He can untap Tolarian Academy to ramp mana, or Library of Alexandria to net extra cards.  Goblin Welder can have some fun with the untap ability, too.  He can give attackers pseudo-vigilance, which can be beneficial.  

He may cost too much against Shops (ususally), but I'd rather have him out in the early game than Jace.  His +1 helps you climb out from under Tangle Wire, and he's arguably better than Jace, the Mind Sculptor against critters, although Jace can be more efficient at keeping them off the board if he gets the chance to +2 before said critters can swing.  

This critter interaction applies to the Fish match-up, as well -- I think I'd rather have a turn one Ral than a turn one Jace, the Mind Sculptor against most Fish builds. You mention that you'd rather have Pyroclasm, but I think that he's not fighting for the Pyroclasm spot.  He's probably fighting for the 3-4th Jace, the Mind Sculptor spot, or the second or third Lightning Bolt.  

Versatility is the name of Mr. Zarek's game, and I think he may shine as strong tool in blue decks.  I don't think it'll be a fluke to the tune of dredge playing one Jace, the Mind Scupltor, but I also agree that it won't be as oppressive a presence as Jace, the Mind Sculptor is in other blue decks.  

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

It has no 'shell' it goes into where you can say "Man, I really need infinite twiddle, but not one of the existing infinite twiddles we have" and 3 turns of "Tap your perm on my turn" is tempo land. I don't know of any small beats army decks that want to pay 4 mana for tap effects.

No joke, I think this all the time. Specificly, "If only key randomly dealt Damg some how." Just to justify time vault and some blue tutor cards when I'm not in black.

I'd also like to point out that tezz is not a one turn win. It's a pass the turn win, like oath. Sure it can win with a Radom one of already deployed, but so can oath (with walk) and at much cheaper costs. All of the big tezz comparisons are greatly over estimating the seeker.

In addition to a higher powered rug shell, I can see a turbo tezz shell with this guy. Ramp him out with vault or monolith, then untap it to power out a tezz and win on the spot next turn without getting blown out by a blot or them having a 2 power dude.

This guy also kills trygon in multiples, which is something people try against vault decks. He's definitely not a 4 or at any point, but comboing with vault and bolting stuff are solid vintage relivent abilities. You can tell because people play cards that do just one of those things.

[quicksilvervii]

Going to try to run this in a slaver shell.  Untaps Time Vault, Bazaar, and Goblin Welder.

[Protoaddict]

Against Shops this costs too much. Against Blue I'd rather play Jace. Against Fish I'd rather play Pyroclasm. In Standard/Modern it might see play where there is a lot of combat, but not in Vintage.

Against shops, people still maindeck Jace against shops don't they? You then either side them out or pitch them for force if it's not needed. Does not mean Jace should not see play. Ral may actually be better against shops if you land him since bolt KILLS lodestone, not just bouncing it.

Against Fish, play pyroclasm? But pyroclasm is only a defensive card against that deck, it will never win you the game. It has limited application elsewhere (sometimes good against dredge and delver) and dead in some matches. This is good against fish AND other deck AND can win you the game. That being said they are not direct comparisons and probably should not be fighting for the same slot.

I don't think you need to play him, but it's stupid to discount him so early on. None of us know how good he can be but his potential is very much there.

[A.-1.]

Ral may actually be better against shops if you land him since bolt KILLS lodestone, not just bouncing it.

I'll take Jace over this guy versus Shops every day of the week. Ral Zarek does nothing versus Forgemaster, Karn, Hellkite, Wurmcoil, etc.

Using this guy to take infinite turns with Time Vault still requires that you get your 1-of Time Vault into play. If you don't have Vault, his + ability is really poor. Not one of the other marginal uses listed so far make me want to play this guy. I don't think he'll see much play outside of fringe decks like Turbo Tezz and Slaver/Strix Control.

[vaughnbros]

Calling this guy 4 mana bolt is like calling Lilliana 3 mana edict or Jace 4 mana brainstorm.  You're looking at the card completely wrong if you do this.

In my mind he passes the two questions of playability for planeswalkers.
1. Can he protect himself from creatures?
Yes, he can bolt them.

2.  Can he do something relevant every turn?
Yes, at the very least you get to twiddle something.

If you don't think liliana and Tezz 2 are playable you probably won't think this guy is either.

@ Tom.  
Against workshops no 4 drop is particularly great.  However, he will impact a game against them if you can stick him.  Untap a mana source or destroy target lodestone/revoker seems solid to me.

Against blue this guy helps tremendously in winning the Jace war.  I can only play 4 Jaces, some say 3 optimally, so I need more weapons than just Jace to win that battle.  If can stick this it kills an unbuffed jace immediately and I highly doubt many players will want to toss a Jace out into this guy unless they have no other play to make.

Against fish.  How is comparable to pyroclasm?  That card is only relevant against fish and does literally nothing against every other match up.

As far as an existing shell, UBr tv decks and possibly UR landstill could benefit from him.

[RisingWater]

Definately going to throw together a vintage izzet deck!

Finally get to use gelectrodes again!

[Stormanimagus]

Yeah, people who are dismissing this card aren't seeing the applications where he could be good. The +1 ability does have a potential way of establishing board control or getting an opponent off counter mana for main phase 2 or whatever. Also, against match-ups where you need to win the combat damage war he's amazing (I KNOW he's at sorcery speed I'm not stupid) because you can either tap down to swing through their guys or you can leave a goyf up as a blocker if they can't profitably block him.

-Storm

[gkraigher]

I do think this card is playable, but I am starting to see him as more of a sideboard card.  He is certainly not good against dredge or oath.  He is mediocre against Mud, but better than Jace #3/4 in that match up.  Where he is great is in the control mirror and in delver builds.

[davidasmatthews]

Why not think a little outside the box. Ral Zarek keeps Stasis alive while continually locking down whatever lands, etc your opponents are able to play.

[brianpk80]

Why not think a little outside the box. Ral Zarek keeps Stasis alive while continually locking down whatever lands, etc your opponents are able to play.

Nice.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I do think this card is playable, but I am starting to see him as more of a sideboard card.  He is certainly not good against dredge or oath.  He is mediocre against Mud, but better than Jace #3/4 in that match up.  Where he is great is in the control mirror and he delver builds.

I'm sure a lot of rug decks would love to tap down the 7/7 life linker and swing for leathal. Also 6 dmg is pretty good when on the "race befor they find oath" plan. Seems fine against oath.

[gkraigher]

[/quote]
I'm sure a lot of rug decks would love to tap down the 7/7 life linker and swing for leathal. Also 6 dmg is pretty good when on the "race befor they find oath" plan. Seems fine against oath.
[/quote]

I think this card is great in a delver build in general.  I don't think dark confidant cares about attacking past a griselbrand ever, however.  So in blue control decks I would board it out against oath.  In Delver, this card is great all over. 

[Protoaddict]

Why not think a little outside the box. Ral Zarek keeps Stasis alive while continually locking down whatever lands, etc your opponents are able to play.

You are my favorite person ever for thinking of this.