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Author Topic: Eudemonia *SPRING VINTAGE* Top 8 Decklists! 4/13/2013  (Read 10424 times)
Smmenen
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« on: April 16, 2013, 12:38:09 pm »

California may seem like the other end of the earth for most American Vintage players.   We're working to change that.  

The Bay was once the last mecca for Type 1 in America.  It was once home to players like Brian Weissman and many others.   You used to be able to find Type 1 pick up games across the Bay, from SF to Oakland to Berkeley, on almost any night.  

Many years later, those days are now little more but memories.  Yet, deep in the heart of the Bay is a regard for the oldest and grandest Magic formats.  Where Type 1 once thrived and Vintage can once again live.   We are working to rebuild that community, once step at a time.

Many of the top players in the country live here and love this format.  Not only do we have Magic pros, but we have Vintage Championship winners and finalists.  We want to build support, step by step, for the format we adore, but have far too few opportunities to enjoy.  

Our plan, at the moment, is to hold quarterly Vintage tournaments in Berkeley.  Berkeley is a central and good location within the Bay -- a central location for everyone.  This will, we hope, complement Vacaville tournaments.  

Our inaugural return to Eudemonia in Berkeley had 21 players -- a good start!  There was a cut to top 8, and the finalists split.  Jeff will post pictures.

Without further adieu, here are your top 8 decklists based on final standings:

1st  Blaine Christiansen

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Buried Ruin
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Tangle Wire
3 Smokestack
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Serum Powder
1 Trinisphere
3 Null Rod

Sideboard:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Duplicant

2nd Brett Allen

1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2 Mental Misstep
2 Spell Pierce
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendillion Clique
4 Dark Confidant
1 Nature's Claim
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Trygon Predator
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
1 Echoing Truth
1 Darkblast
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Steel Sabotage
2 Nature's Claim
1 Island
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Energy Flux
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle

3rd Place: Danny Friedman

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Gush
1 Tezzeret, the Seeker
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Flusterstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Brainstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tinker
3 Preordain
1 Time Walk

Sideboard:
1 Mountain
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Yixlid Jailer

4th Place: Tuan Phan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
3 Mental Misstep
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Rebuild
1 Time Walk
2 Thoughseize
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tinker
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Channel
1 Ponder
3 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Regrowth
4 Oath of Druids
2 Dragon’s Breath
1 Voltaic Key
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Time Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforet
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
1 Blazing Archon
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroclasm
4 Show and Tell

5th Place: David Ochoa

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Null Rod
3 Tangle Wire
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Mutavault
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
4 Duplicant
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
 
6th Place: Sam Sherman

4 Volcanic Island
1 Mox Ruby
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
2 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Jackel Pup
4 Goblin Guide
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Null Rod
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
2 Grim Lavamancer

Sideboard:
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

7th Place: Heiner Litz

4 Dark Confidant
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Mental Misstep
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tezzeret,  the Seeker
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Tinker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Opal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Strip Mine
4 Ingot Chewer
1 Mountain
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Flusterstorm
1 Eingineered Explosives

8th Place:  Jacob Kory

1 Library of Alexandria
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
1 Izzet Charm
1 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Forbidden Alchemey
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Tinker
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard:
1 Mountain
1 Rack and Ruin
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Doom Blade
1 Pyroclasm
1 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Yixlid Jailer

I don’t know all of the Top 8 matchups, but I believe;

Blaine defeated Heiner
Danny defeated Jacob
Brett defeated David Ochoa
Twaun defeated Sam

Then Brett defeated Danny
Blaine defeated Tuan

Blaine and Brett split the finals, giving Blaine first place because of his higher seed.  
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 11:51:55 pm by Smmenen » Logged

StanleyAugust
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 01:03:38 pm »

Good to see BUG up there. It's so underplayed but it's incredibly good.
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 01:28:44 pm »

It's good to see the prices of singles have been adjusted and are competitive with the rest of the market. That makes me more inclined to play for just store credit, although I would like to see a change in the entry/prize structure. I'd prefer a lower entry fee because there isn't a specific card (i.e Mox/Bazaar/Shop/etc) that is being awarded that would normally advocate a higher entry fee in order to cover costs. The most direct beneficiary of having higher entry is the store because they're taking in mostly cash for future sales, and while I'm not opposed to a symbiotic relationship with Eudemonia, I'd prefer to have the players benefit first. Lower costs will open the door for more players. Lastly, I'd like to see the minimum prize be at least equal to the entry. Making top 8 and walking away with less than you put in isn't the best feeling, even if it's only a few dollars.

I had a fun time and look forward to bashing you all again in the future. Hopefully the tournament structure will have changed.
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 03:49:25 pm »


Brett vs Danny


Blaine vs Tuan


Jacob vs Danny


Brett vs Sam

Tuan vs Webster


Blaine vs Heiner


Jacob owning me


Blaine vs Smmenen


Danny: not amused by Stony Silence


Michael Lewis's Bomberman vs Brett


Ochoa rocking the shops vs Jeff Huang


Stephen trying to solve the puzzle to get out of this mess. We had a truly epic game 3 of me watching him play. Smile


Possibly same game


Stephen's first play of the day. I obviously rip Stony Silence off the top and lock down his Sol Ring and Mox that he plays. Smile


My sick cube deck. The cube had exactly enough cards for exactly 8 players (so 8x3x15 cards) which was interesting. with 6 players we got to draft from 4 15 card packs.  

Most of my games went to time, and half the pics were blurry, so the above is what I got.


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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 03:52:30 pm »

How was Stony Silence in, what I assume is, 5C Stax?
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2013, 04:09:00 pm »

Stephen and Danny both got pretty hosed by it.
I netdecked my list from 3 years ago at Eudemonia's previous Time Walk tourney. It beat a bunch of Oath Decks, and I assumed there would be a bunch of Oath decks here today.

I played 2 Stony Silence and 1 Null Rod (In testing, I discovered I couldn't tinker for stoney silence) off 3 City of Brass, 3 Gemstone Mines and moxen.

I had no problem casting it and it was pretty good.

Round 1: Epic games with Stephen I somehow won
Round 2: I stomp on BC cuz I have Welders and he doesn't
Round 3: Epic games with Danny, and he wins game 3 because, for some reason, I sided out Duplicant. I discovered this as I tinkered for it as an answer to his Tinkered in BSC.
Round 4: Jacob owns me (His mull to 5 was way better than my reasonable mull to 6)
Round 5: I have to defeat Brett's BUG deck. He forces my first play, and plays Trygon Predator turn 1. Game 2 I mull to a miserable 5 (Gemstone Mine x2, Welder, 2 cards) and he pwns me.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 04:17:04 pm by LotusHead » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2013, 04:38:08 pm »

Here's my mini-report for a finals split with BUG.  Can't find my life total sheets, so this is from memory; sorry if I got any details wrong.

I haven't played Vintage in quite a while, so once I got a hall pass for this event I set about scanning top 8 lists for something sweet.  The BUG deck played by Mark Hornung in Lancaster (and others before in Europe) caught my eye.  Can Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay actually be good in Vintage?  Only one way to find out...

The main changes I made (relative to Hornung's list) were adding Ponder and Mystical Tutor (both good with Confidant and Snapcaster), adding a Strip and Wasteland, and turning two Lilianas into Thoughtseize.  In the sideboard I swapped the Mountain-based SB cards for on-color artifact answers that I felt were more flexible (e.g., Steel Sabotage vs Colossus or Nature's Claim vs Oath).  Not sure if it's right, but it all seemed fine in theory the night before the tournament.


Round 1 vs David (Webster)

Starting things off in challenge mode versus the one and only David Ochoa.  He's usually on some kind of blue control, so I keep a slowish hand without much disruption.  My land-go is answered by his Mox, Mox, Mox, Shop, Thorn, Thorn.  Hmm, that was unexpected.  Eyeing his signed Japanese Thorns of Amethyst I ask if they'll affect my turn 2 Dark Confidant.  No?  Great.  Nor did they affect my turn 3 Trygon Predator, cast honestly off three lands like God intended.  Say, this Trygon Predator card is quite strong against Stax!  Whoever popularized that card in Vintage (arguably the one and only David Ochoa) was a genius.

Game 2, Web leads off with a Lodestone Golem on turn 1 or 2.  I cast a Trygon Predator (maybe turn 3 off Deathrite?) but a Duplicant eats it and I can't come back in time.

Game 3 I keep a hand with thee land but too many three drops.  I can buy a couple of turns to draw a Mox, Deathrite, or another land in order to wipe the board with Energy Flux, but as it is, Wasteland into Smokestack plus Lodestone locks me out.  Almost got there anyways due to him losing every single Mana Crypt flip, but a turn before lethality he fed it to his Smokestack in disgust.  Ah well, poor mulligan choice on my part.

0-1


Round 2 vs Michael (Bomberman)

Not a great matchup, but in game 1 my draw is just much better and I'm able to lock him out under Liliana -- killing Salvagers and stripping all his countermagic.

Game 2 I get a decent start, but eventually he gets a Jace down.  I gamely attack Jace with a Deathrite while my other creatures are killed or countered, and actually feel kind of in it as he somehow bricks turn after turn with Jace/fetch/Sensei's Top running.  At some point I probably should have started draining for 2 instead, but before I can switch plans he gets a Pithing Needle on my Shaman.  Then comes a Salvagers to stop my attacks.  Earlier I had Surgically Extracted his Lotus -- mainly for information so I could Snapcaster/Surgical his last card in hand (Force of Will).  So he can't combo with Salvagers, but the enormous 2/4 body stops my beats and his Jace goes ultimate.

It turns out that a zillion Jace/Top activations can really take a toll on the clock, so game 3 is a draw.

0-1-1

Yeah, so this is the point in the tournament where I start wondering if I should really be playing a Vintage deck where literally the most powerful thing I can do is attack for 2.  People kept stopping by my matches, looking at the cards in play, and asking if I misread the announcement and brought Legacy deck.  Still, Vintage opportunities have been rare of late for me, so better try to make it count...


Round 3 vs Landstill

Got paired against someone in his first Vintage tournament.  He played well, but I managed to take it down 2-1.  Flusterstorm for his Ancestral was pretty key.  Might have had a turn 2 Jace (via Deathrite) in there somewhere.

1-1-1


R4 vs Eric (Campee) with Jace Control

I won game 1, I think via Bob advantage.  Game 2 we both get stuck on one mana, and he gets out of it first.  We get to the point where I have Underground Sea, Deathrite Shaman, Strip Mine versus his three lands and a Voltaic Key.  I cast Thoughtseize and he Ancestrals in response, revealing: Mana Crypt, Tinker, Force of Will, Yawmoth's Will, Demonic Tutor, Snapcaster Mage.  Geeeeze, is that good?  The thing is, I'm holding two Abrupt Decays, so if I can stop him for just one turn, I'll actually be OK even through his Force.  I take Mana Crypt and Strip a land and pass for my one turn without Decay mana.  Obviously he peels another land.  He goes for Snapcaster/Ancestral and of course hits Lotus to be able to Will/DT/Vault the same turn.  I may or may not be on life tilt at this point.

Game 3 he counters my Bob and plays a Bob of his own.  Then he plays another Bob.  Things are looking real bad, but then he flips a Jace and Time Vault with only two land in play.  LIfe total is low -- time for aggro mode.  I make a Vendilion Clique and see that among his many cards, the only relevant one is Vampiric Tutor.  But if I Strip Mine his tapped Underground Sea, he can't even cast that, and figure that by the time he finds another black source his life total will be too low.  I leave his hand pat and start racing my Clique and his Bob flips vs his Bob attacks.  It works.

2-1-1


R5 vs Jeff/Lotushead (Stax)

One more win to make top 8.  I lose the die roll, but Jeff takes a mulligan.  I have Force of Will for his Sphere, enabling my turn 1 of land, Mox, Mox, Trygon Predator.  It eats everything.

Game two my Trygon Predator was a little slower coming out, but just as hungry when he got there.

3-1-1

Made the top 8.  There is brief discussion of a split, but several players are enthusiastically against it.  Battle!


Top 8 vs Sam (RDW)

Looks like I'm not the only one playing a "Legacy deck"-- Sam has some kind of Jackal Pup, burn, and Red Blast concoction.  Knowing this I keep a somewhat loose hand: Sea, Sea, fetch, Mox, Lotus, Deathrite Shaman, Deathrite Shaman on the draw.  OK, maybe it's really loose, but at least I won't get Wastelanded out.  He leads with Mountain, I lead with Sea into Shaman.  With great satisfaction he bolts the Shaman and Wastes my Sea, so I run back the exact same play on turn 2.  He Wastelands again, but the second Shaman lasts the whole game, gaining me about 10 life and dealing almost all the damage.

Game 2 I live dangerously with the double Bob beatdowns, but fortunately I had double Nature's Claim (a.k.a. inverse Fireblast) for emergencies.


Top 4 vs Danny with Tezz

Danny is new to the area (at least on a Vintage time scale).  Nice guy with a really nice deck -- altered art Japanese cards and the whole nine yards.  There were a lot of nice decks at this event actually; I guess people wanted a chance to bring their bling.

I lose the die roll but have the perfect opening of turn 1 Mox Jet, Thoughtseize, land, Mox, Bob.  I then get out a Trygon Predator, though all it can do is make him replay his Sensei's Top.  At one point I Steel Sabotage the Top and he Flusterstorms.  I figure I can just Flusterstorm back, but after some analysis I realize that won't work out since he had more mana up at the time.  Nevertheless, with the Bob draws I'm able to stop anything bad from happening.

Game 2 is going reasonably well until he runs out a Demonic Tutor for Tinker (I think) and Tinkers with two mana up.  I have 1 blue and 1 green mana available and relevant spells are Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, and Nature's Claim.  Spell Pierce doesn't do it, and Nature's Claim to increase storm won't really accomplish anything.  So I run out the Flusterstorm.  He Flusterstorms back, saying that they all target my Flusterstorm, pointing to the original.  That doesn't make any sense, so I ask for clarification and he says that he's distributing his copies over my copies.  I think it over and at this point all I can really do is pay for 1 copy to make him tap out and hope for no Colossus (or a Steel Sabotage or Liliana off the top).  He tells me I can't just pay 1 because he has more copies, so I explain that he has one Flusterstorm on each of my Flusterstorm, except for one that has two Flusterstorms on it.  So I'm paying for one of the copies with one Flusterstorm.  He thinks about this and says "OK, yeah, I guess that works," thinks some more, and bins his Tinker.  Well... it is a legal option for him to not pay for the copy I paid for.  I feel a little dirty at this point, but I don't think I said anything misleading and I wasn't even expecting this outcome.  But I guess I'll take it... confusing card is confusing.  From this point he's out of gas and I get to do what my deck does -- attack for 2 until it's over.


Finals vs BC (Stax)

BC offers the split since he wants to go for dinner.  Fine by me.  One of us has to drop though... BC suggests playing a one game match, but considering I'm going to sideboard 8 cards and he'll probably sideboard about 1, I'm not sure that's really in my favor.  We're at an impasse so I take the fall and he gets to be the nominal winner.

Thanks to Eudemonia for a smoothly run tournament!
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Smmenen
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2013, 11:23:08 pm »

Hmmm... so, if his Tinker wasn't countered, then why did he put it in the GY?  I'm confused by that last bit.

So, I posted the rest of the decklists. Heiner's decklist is really amazing.  Blaine's deck was, as usual, fierce.  The last time I was crushed that badly was, not coincidentally, by Blaine at Vintage Champs.  I am now 0-3 against Blaine.  He always seems to figure out the right configuration of Workshop prison parts. 

I snapped a streak of 14 consecutive match wins at this tournament (not counting draws).  I played pretty poorly through the tournament, making huge blunders -- especially at the conclusion of the first round, where I should have won (had I just used Bargain to 5 -- then I could have played Maniac, sucked up a damage, Oathed to deck, then paid a life to draw a card and win) , then should have drawn (by just doing nothing), and then somehow lost (by being an idiot and giving him another token) against Jeff in game 3.   Blaine murdered me in round 4, and I played poorly in that match as well, but he won the die roll (rolling two tens in a row to get to decide who goes first). 
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 11:47:07 pm »

Hmmm... so, if his Tinker wasn't countered, then why did he put it in the GY?  I'm confused by that last bit.

So, I posted the rest of the decklists. Heiner's decklist is really amazing.  Blaine's deck was, as usual, fierce.  The last time I was crushed that badly was, not coincidentally, by Blaine at Vintage Champs.  I am now 0-3 against Blaine.  He always seems to figure out the right configuration of Workshop prison parts. 

I snapped a streak of 14 consecutive match wins at this tournament (not counting draws).  I played pretty poorly through the tournament, making huge blunders -- especially at the conclusion of the first round, where I should have won (had I just used Bargain to 5 -- then I could have played Maniac, sucked up a damage, Oathed to deck, then paid a life to draw a card and win) , then should have drawn (by just doing nothing), and then somehow lost (by being an idiot and giving him another token) against Jeff in game 3.   Blaine murdered me in round 4, and I played poorly in that match as well, but he won the die roll (rolling two tens in a row to get to decide who goes first). 


It was countered. He chose not to pay the Flusterstorm.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2013, 12:17:22 am »

Except Danny clearly intended to, and had the mana to pay for it.  He was confused by the question. 
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2013, 12:34:05 am »

Except Danny clearly intended to, and had the mana to pay for it.  He was confused by the question. 

Based on what is provided, he was confused by the interaction of competing Flusterstorms. I don't see a question posed at all. He chooses not to pay for the resolving copy of Flusterstorm. Of course it was something he wouldn't do had he understood the interaction, and I'm sure he won't make the same mistake again once it's explained to him.
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2013, 12:57:27 am »

Except Danny clearly intended to, and had the mana to pay for it.  He was confused by the question. 

Based on what is provided, he was confused by the interaction of competing Flusterstorms. I don't see a question posed at all. He chooses not to pay for the resolving copy of Flusterstorm. Of course it was something he wouldn't do had he understood the interaction, and I'm sure he won't make the same mistake again once it's explained to him.

Based on what was provided. Which is only one side of the story and more than likely bias (which is human nature). Either way, we're not likely to know what really happened and discussing it publicly seems
pretty worthless.
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2013, 12:15:52 pm »

I watched that Tinker/Flusterstorm fiasco happen and talked with Danny about it afterward. I was just as confused as Danny initially, so I chose not to say anything at the time assuming that I was probably missing something or not thinking straight. I was pretty tired by that point after mulling and powdering to oblivion all day with Two Card Monte, which incidently there are no pictures of even though I'm pretty sure I was the only person slinging legit copies of Lotus, Ancestral, Workshops, AND Bazaars in my deck; come on Jeff, you gotta photograph the SEXY decks rather than Steve's ugly Cities.

I also felt like if I said something, I could be interfering with the game or giving Danny advice, which I know is a no go. The judge was sitting right there anyway, though he was trying to pay attention to 2 semifinal games on either side of him, so I don't think he saw the whole lead up. When the discussion started about what was going on, the judge asked Danny if he wanted him to help map out the situation with the Flusterstorms. Danny declined and then it happened as Brett described, though it was never stated explicitly that Danny was declining to pay for a flusterstorm copy. It seemed to me that Brett convinced Danny he wouldn't win the counter war, which is why Danny didn't pay. As an observer, the interaction between the players seemed borderline shady, but not definitively so (but what do I know as a mostly casual player who "wins" by having a pimper deck than my opponents). Brett was not particularly forthcoming with information and ALMOST seemed to be trying to mislead Danny. However, I don't know Brett and do know Danny, so that may be coloring how I view the situation. (no offense meant to Brett, please don't take it that way)

My take is that Danny should have allowed the judge to help him map out the scenario when he offered to, which would probably have changed the outcome. Danny basically admitted this when we discussed it after the game.

An aside: Don't ever draft white weenie in cube when everyone else is drafting decks like lotushead's above (or reanimator, etc.). No fun at all, even if you do get Ankh of Mishra, Winter Orb, etc. to go along with your Stoneforge+Batterskull and other assorted efficient weenies.
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2013, 01:17:42 pm »

Except Danny clearly intended to, and had the mana to pay for it.  He was confused by the question. 

I didn't ask any questions... I just said what I was doing (paying for one copy).  Also, his intention isn't that cut and dried from my point of view.  For example, if he taps out and gets Colossus, then if I'm holding Jace or Steel Sabotage he will be stuck with Colossus in hand.  So if he has, say, a REB, he might prefer to not pay and hold that up for a turn and do something more broken on another turn (e.g., Yawg Will).

Regarding the top 8 pairings in your first post, I was paired against Sam and Tuan was paired against Ochoa.  At one point I came over and Web was staring down Vault/Key, Emrakul, and Blightsteel Colossus.  He remained stoic and did not scoop until the end came two turns later.

Thanks for typing up the lists!

---
Just saw aahz's reply -- no offense taken.  I *was* trying to mislead in exactly one sense: I was trying to stay confident when in fact I was in real trouble.  The reason for this is maybe he then assumes I have the bounce spell and goes for a slower line like Time Vault (or not paying and trying later as mentioned above).  It's a long shot, but it was all I could do.
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2013, 01:34:03 pm »

I thought it was a great return to Eudemonia.  21 players is a strong start.  Hopefully we can get even more next time.

I played basically the list I have been playing the last few months.  The only change is that I played 3 Null Rod main and took out 3 Phyrexian Revoker.  Null Rod is so good right now.  I also ran 3 Factory, 2 Buried Ruin instead of some higher number of Ruins.  This is because my threat density is already pretty low after taking out Revokers, so I just needed the extra bodies.

My tournament run wasn't really as dominant as has been suggested.  
Round 1 I played Sam and his UR Sligh deck.  I pretty much got nut draws both games, and there wasn't much he could do.  
Round 2 I played Jeff and his 2010 5c Stax.  Game 1 was close, and I thought I should have had it, but a late Welder got him the win.  Game 2 wasn't close, as a pair of Welders shut me down.  
Round 3 I played against Goblins, and again just had nuts hands both games.  I actually worried about this matchup, since my current build is low on dudes, but it worked out this time.
Round 4 I played Smennen, and much like our previous matches I just kept drawing all kinds of Lodestone Golems.
Round 5 I ID'ed with Koby, but then we played it for fun anyway.  He beat me both games with Welders (making me realize my build is extremely vulnerable to Welder).  Game 2 I had two Smokestacks with a total of 7 soot counters, but he kept welding in a Myr Battlesphere to gain 4 Myrs every turn.
Top 8 I played Heiner.  We played three very close games.  Game 1 I almost had him locked, but then he was able to manage a Hurkyll's Recall and Time Vault for the rest of the turns.  Game 2 I eventually locked him out with Tangle Wires/Buried Ruin/Crucible.  Game 3 we both kept slow, bad hands, and he lost to his own Mana Crypt a turn before ultimate Tezzing (he lost something like 6 of 8 Crypt rolls).
Top 4 I played Tuan.  Game 1 I overwhelmed him with multiple Lodestone Golems.  Game 2 he lands two Oaths, but has no Orchard.  He Tinkers up a Blightsteel, then I Oath and get a Metamorph.  I can't draw a land to make a second Metamorph, and eventually he gets an Orchard and Dragon's Breath monsters get me.  Game 3 on the play I go Mox, Grafdigger's Cage, Workshop, Trinisphere.  All land.  Turn 2 I go Crucible, Wasteland, and he scoops (apparently having no basic lands in the deck).
Finals I am paired with hiryu.  He graciously accepts a prize split, and officially drops from the tournament to give me the default win.  Tip of the cap to you, sir.

I also wanted to say that I agree with Webster's comments about entry fee ($20-25 instead of $30) and prize support for 5-8th (equal to entry fee).
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 01:37:07 pm by BC » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2013, 05:52:06 pm »

If you could Steve, please change my list to include 4 Ancient Tomb and increase the Mishra's Factory count to 4.

Thanks.
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2013, 02:55:12 am »

Heiner's list seems to be 59 cards. Maybe Library or Gifts? Or bolt?
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2013, 05:23:30 am »

Sounds like a very successful event! I regret deeply that I wasn't able to make it this time, as my job is making me travel a lot and I was on an airplane while it was going on.

It was great to see that the turnout was respectable, and the field was diverse. I'll definitely try to participate as often as possible in the future.

BC: I thought you were in the habit of playing multiple Triskelions main? When did you stop running those?
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Smmenen
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2013, 11:36:58 pm »

Heiner's list seems to be 59 cards. Maybe Library or Gifts? Or bolt?

I counted 60.  He didn't run Bolt or Gifts. 
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2013, 11:42:57 pm »

I re-counted and just now noticed the Mox Opal. Smile All good!
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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2013, 01:28:04 am »

"As an observer, the interaction between the players seemed borderline shady, but not definitively so (but what do I know as a mostly casual player who "wins" by having a pimper deck than my opponents). Brett was not particularly forthcoming with information and ALMOST seemed to be trying to mislead Danny. However, I don't know Brett and do know Danny, so that may be coloring how I view the situation. (no offense meant to Brett, please don't take it that way)"

There was absolutely nothing shady about the interaction between the two players. Brett explained how the two cards worked and his opponent didn't understand. The judge agreed with Brett's explanation and saw no issue with it. Short of explaining to his opponent that all he simply had to do was pay 1 mana and his spell would resolve, what should Brett have done instead? If Danny didn't understand he should have said so or asked the judge for help. Instead, he just put his Tinker in the graveyard and assumed that it was countered. This may sound a bit harsh, but you are not obligated to help someone understand how to play their cards correctly to beat you. When something happens in a game and I don't understand it, I call a judge and ask for help even if it's embarrassing to admit my ignorance. Personally, if I were Danny I would have used some cards that were lying around (or asked the judge for some) and put them down on the table with each card representing a copy of flusterstorm on the stack. Brett was able to do this in his head, Danny was not.
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2013, 02:55:28 am »

Brett's handling of the situation by feigning confidence and bluffing said confidence is part of what makes Brett a terrifying opponent. Rarely does he drop his Poker Face/magic face.

Vintage is at the pinacle of knowing what the stack is and does, and every one of us has slipped up at some point. I was pretty confused by Brett's account of what happened, and didn't think much of it until Stephen said something, but after Brett said he kept his options open (even in a super-bad situation), bluffing confidence, it was very much up to the other player to try to resolve his spell, if at all possible.  I'm sure Danny will explain as soon as he bothers to check this thread. Smile

all of us has made bad/incorrect plays, but hopefully we all can learn from this (either by jedi mind tricking someone into thinking their spell is autoflusterstormed, or by simply having the will to swallow the bad situation and hoping your opponent fails to make the right play.  )
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 03:16:54 am by LotusHead » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2013, 10:36:19 am »

BC: I thought you were in the habit of playing multiple Triskelions main? When did you stop running those?

I haven't been running Trikes for a while now.  I think it's mostly because of the unrestricting of Burning Wish and the advent of Burning Long.  People completely stopped running Dark Confidant, RUG Delver is barely seen anymore, Dredge isn't as common as it was a year ago, and people are even running fewer Jace TMS.  Trike just doesn't do it for me these days.  Null Rod/Spheres are much more useful.
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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2013, 03:08:21 pm »

Once in a while there is always these situations where someone simply messed up something simple and lose the game because of it.  And since the situation was so simple, it baffles other people...  in this case by putting Tinker in graveyard it means the Flusterstorm (copies) resolved, having the ability or intent to pay didn't matter.  There is no foul play of any sort. 

I don't like the way how the way Eudo charged $30, seems to me they just want to make money.  When they charged $30 last time, it was for a Black Lotus (which interestingly enough was an event that got canceled).  I am not going to pay $30 for the tourney when the store takes a percentage of it and give back in store credit.  In Vacaville, it was cash pay out and back in Superstars, prize pool is 100% of the entry fee.  With the way Eudo is running things, it seems like they care about profiting through the tourneys rather than for the best interest of the players.  I am okay with $20 entry fee, but $30 is way too much.  Originally I have no intent of coming to the tourney but Web convinced me eventually so I was thinking might as well.  But definitely won't be going if anything doesn't change next time. 
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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 07:38:02 pm »

Bummer that my super evil work bosses forced me to make money rather than blow $30 to slang some cards for old time sake. Perhaps next time I will come show up for some good ol fashioned fun.
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Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2013, 03:01:22 pm »

I was pretty tired by that point after mulling and powdering to oblivion all day with Two Card Monte, which incidently there are no pictures of even though I'm pretty sure I was the only person slinging legit copies of Lotus, Ancestral, Workshops, AND Bazaars in my deck; come on Jeff, you gotta photograph the SEXY decks rather than Steve's ugly Cities.

Most of my games went to time, and half my pictures came out blurry. The only game I really watched was Landstill owning you. I declined to take a pic out of respect for the dead.

Smile
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Smmenen
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« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2013, 07:21:51 pm »

Assuming we hold the next event in July, which date would work best for everyone?  What about July 28th?

Please let me know if some dates don't work.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 07:26:07 pm by Smmenen » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2013, 09:53:29 pm »

I don't like the way how the way Eudo charged $30, seems to me they just want to make money.  When they charged $30 last time, it was for a Black Lotus (which interestingly enough was an event that got canceled).  I am not going to pay $30 for the tourney when the store takes a percentage of it and give back in store credit.  In Vacaville, it was cash pay out and back in Superstars, prize pool is 100% of the entry fee.  With the way Eudo is running things, it seems like they care about profiting through the tourneys rather than for the best interest of the players.  I am okay with $20 entry fee, but $30 is way too much.  Originally I have no intent of coming to the tourney but Web convinced me eventually so I was thinking might as well.  But definitely won't be going if anything doesn't change next time.  

While I always appreciate the feedback and take everything to heart, I'm puzzled by this.  What is wrong with us making money?  As a business and as someone who works very hard, why is it wrong for me to make money?  When you work, do you do it for free or do you care to make money?  Should game stores exist as non profit entities?

Lets clarify this a bit.  Are you saying tournament services in general does not deserve profit or are you saying Eudemonia, in the services it provides, does not deserve profit?

There were several reasons why I decided to go with $30.  Profit is always a consideration and as a business, I'm not afraid to admit this.  However, the main reason I charged $30 is that I view both Legacy and Vintage events as premium events.  With premium events, we charge a higher price and give a bigger payout.  It sets the tone for the event.  This is the biggest reason I decided on $30.

It is one thing to suggest that we lower the entry fee.  However, please dont suggest that I am screwing the Vintage community.  I do want to provide a valuable service, but it has to make business sense.

As for the point about 5-8th not getting their entry fee.  This was an oversight and it will not happen again.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 12:35:47 am by dkao » Logged
Smmenen
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« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2013, 11:36:25 pm »

We are all extremely grateful that you provide a venue to play the best format.  Everyone seemed to really enjoy this tournament and we look forward to the next one!
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« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2013, 12:23:57 am »

@jeff: 30$ might seem a lot, but consider that dkao has to pay for a judge, needs to reserve the space (which he could use otherwise) and that tournaments in general are time consuming. I think he well deserves to make some profit for that. I m really grateful that there is a Vintage venue in the Bayarea at all and I am happy to pay a premium for that.
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