Junk Fish: Answers to Everything?

[msg67183]

Hello,

I have been tweaking a list together that I think can answer any deck in today's metagame.
Here is the list with some explanations following each choice:

Junk Fish

4 Wasteland
 Strip effects are key to a Fish deck. They help lock the opponent out so that you can play the tempo game.
Strip Mine
 Read Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
 Fetches are a form of Card Advantage. They thin your deck of lands so you can draw more threats and answers.
3 Marsh Flats
 Read Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
 Your Black Green Dual.
2 Savannah
 Your Green White Dual.
1 Plains
 Your basic to fetch up, Wasteland Proof.
1 Forest
 Read Plains
1 Swamp
 Read Plains
Black Lotus
 The best card in the game even goes in a deck with Junk in its title.
Mox Pearl
 Your White Mox.
Mox Emerald
 Your Green Mox.
Mox Jet
 Your Black Mox.

4 Noble Hierarch
 Mana ramp is great, especially if your opponent is trying to Sphere you out. The Exalted is an added bonus.
4 Deathrite Shaman
 Not only does Shaman mana ramp, it can kill your opponent, or help you stay alive. It also messes with graveyards to prevent any shenanigans.
4 Qasali Pridemage
 A 2/2 for GW already seems good, Exalted makes it a 3/3, but it can also blow up a troublesome Artifact or Enchantment, but also removes Bridge from Belows.
4 Dark Confidant
 He's a draw engine that beats, need I say more?

4 Abrupt Decay
 Blows up whatever is needed, and is UNCOUNTERABLE!
3 Swords to Plowshares
 Removes any creature in the way.
3 Stony Silence
 Prevents broken plays, goes into the "play a tempo game" theme.
3 Grafdigger's Cage
 Stops brokenness from graveyards, as well as Oath and Tinker.
3 Nature's Claim
 Keeps Artifacts in check, helps with the Workshops Matchup Game 1.
3 Pithing Needle
 Very versatile. Names anything from Jace, the Mind Sculptor to Kuldotha Forgemaster to Griselbrand.
3 Extirpate
 Also very versatile. Anything in the yard can be taken, plus it's UNCOUNTERABLE!

And for the Sideboard:

4 Rest in Peace
 Dredge's worst nightmare.
4 Path to Exile
 More creature removal for any creature.
3 Skylasher
 An UNCOUNTERABLE 2/2 for 1G with Flash is nuts, plus he has Reach AND Protection from Blue, no Jace Bouncing for him!
2 Yixlid Jailer
 More Dredge hate, except this one beats face.
1 Swords to Plowshares
 Just number 4.
1 Nature's Claim
 Just Number 4.

So there you have it, Junk Fish!

And for my sideboarding plan:

Dredge:
-3 Stony Silence
-3 Nature's Claim
-4 Abrupt Decay
-1 Qasali Pridemage
+4 Rest in Peace
+4 Path to Exile
+2 Yixlid Jailer
+1 Swords to Plowshares

This ensures a win against Dredge, Game 1 should be pretty favorable as well.

Workshops:
-3 Grafdigger's Cage
-3 Extirpate
+4 Path to Exile
+1 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Nature's Claim

Landstill/ Bomberman:
-3 Grafdigger's Cage
+3 Skylasher

Fish:
-3 Stony Silence
-3 Grafdigger's Cage
-3 Nature's Claim
+4 Path to Exile
+4 Rest in Peace
+1 Swords to Plowshares

RIP is mostly for Goyf, as well as a way to stop their Deathrite Shamans.

Burning Long:
-3 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Noble Hierarch
+4 Rest in Peace

RIP prevents a Yawgmoth's Will win.

I think I have hit pretty much every matchup that is in this current metagame. Let me know what you think of the deck, and thanks for reading.

[psyburat]

I'd love to help you out, but not having a concise decklist without the card-by-card commentary makes it tough to scan over.  When you're explaining what Mox Emerald is you might be going a tad overboard.  You seem to have forgotten who your audience is.

[Guli]

Yes, if you are going to write something, please try to give more than the obvious. I love to read, give feedback and help out, but this didn't feel like you were taking us seriously.

The deck has 3 extirpate and 3 Needle main deck. I have never seen this before. How does it work out? I am curious.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Not to hijack the thread, but why not have a look at a similar decklist that is somewhat proven?

Below you see Amadeus' Kurz list which he used to win the Bazaar of Moxen, the biggest vintage tournament of the world. It surprises me a bit that none of the enthusiastic Creature-deck-discussers has started a discussion on this yet.

Annecy, BOM 7, 12.05.2013
- 294 players
1. Amadeus Kurz

Maindeck (60):
Spells (43):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Null Rod
4 Dark Confidant
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Spell Pierce
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Time Walk
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Trygon Predator
2 Scavenging Ooze

Lands (17):
1 Bayou
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland


Sideboard (15):
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Null Rod
4 Snuff Out
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Swamp
1 Trygon Predator
1 Wasteland
2 Yixlid Jailer

[brianpk80]

Matt,

A lot of the cards in there are proven to be strong but I don't think there's enough pressure.  Maybe Mishra's Factories could help.

[nedleeds]

I put 56 cards together that were the same as the winning BoM deck and after playing it I just felt like it was ill equipped to win a big 9+ round tourney. It didn't do anything particularly broken and it also didn't have a great clock. Actually the one I put together had 2 Cliques so it actually had a more aggressive tilt.

[brianpk80]

I put 56 cards together that were the same as the winning BoM deck and after playing it I just felt like it was ill equipped to win a big 9+ round tourney. It didn't do anything particularly broken and it also didn't have a great clock. Actually the one I put together had 2 Cliques so it actually had a more aggressive tilt.

Slow and steady wins the race.  BUG Fish, Landstill, Bomberman, and Merfolk can all attest to that.  Decks that are capable of broken plays have a higher instance of awkward hands than decks that are streamlined.  It must be the case that over long stretches of time the advantage gained by being able to win brokenly is slightly more than offset by the card disadvantage of having robots and otherwise dead combo pieces cluttering up the hand.  I can't think of any other explanation for the phenomenon. 

[Guli]

I put 56 cards together that were the same as the winning BoM deck and after playing it I just felt like it was ill equipped to win a big 9+ round tourney. It didn't do anything particularly broken and it also didn't have a great clock. Actually the one I put together had 2 Cliques so it actually had a more aggressive tilt.

Slow and steady wins the race.  BUG Fish, Landstill, Bomberman, and Merfolk can all attest to that.  Decks that are capable of broken plays have a higher instance of awkward hands than decks that are streamlined.  It must be the case that over long stretches of time the advantage gained by being able to win brokenly is slightly more than offset by the card disadvantage of having robots and otherwise dead combo pieces cluttering up the hand.  I can't think of any other explanation for the phenomenon. 

Well, ok, but the deck keeping these ultra fast combo decks in check are not BUG fish or Merfolk. Landstill does a good job at that, and to some degree Workshop. These new counter spells like Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm, etc enabled some slower steadier decks. That being said, we still have pure combo around with Oath/Brand and Doomsday pops up here and there.

When looking at the top 8 of Bom, i only see 1 Null Rod main deck for the BUG Fish deck. All the MUD lists use Metalworker. There is basically nobody running Null Rod or Stony. I wonder how Tezz.dec would have done with their Voltaic Keys and mass acceleration.

[msg67183]

Matt,

A lot of the cards in there are proven to be strong but I don't think there's enough pressure.  Maybe Mishra's Factories could help.

Hey Brian,
Sorry that I haven't responded in a while.
I agree there could be more pressure in this deck and Factory does seem good, but what to cut? And is another colorless land ok for my mana base?
My idea is cut a Pithing Needle and an Extirpate for 2 Factories, if that is the deciding factor.
What are your thoughts on the board?
What do you think of Scavenging Ooze in this deck? Possibly instead of Factories?

[msg67183]

With 8 "mana dorks", would it be alright to omit Power from this list, if budget doesn't allow for Power? Maybe run some Factories and/ or Scavenging Oozes?
I really think this deck could perform well I'd like to see people's thoughts on this idea.

[kwis]

I put 56 cards together that were the same as the winning BoM deck and after playing it I just felt like it was ill equipped to win a big 9+ round tourney. It didn't do anything particularly broken and it also didn't have a great clock. Actually the one I put together had 2 Cliques so it actually had a more aggressive tilt.

Wow, I actually had the exact opposite experience.

I've been playing it online, as well as in real life, and I find it to be so absurdly powerful - even w/o the brokenness of tinker for BsC and Yawg Will + Key+Vault.

[TheWhiteDragon]

While the deck seems to have answers to everything, it runs into a fundamental problem.  There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers.  Granted, a deck needs access to both, but answers need to be fewer and general, i.e. thoughtseize, FoW, chain of vapor, etc., with a few specific (yet still powerful) answers for the toughest expected matches (grafdiggers, null rod, hurkylls, etc.).

When an opponent plops down a tarmgoyf, you would do well to drop RiP or draw swords...but what happens when you draw cages and natures claims, needles, and stony silences instead? Extirpate and cage are awesome against dredge...silence, swords, claims not so much.  The trouble with such large quantities of varied hate and no draw spells or tutors means you will often topdeck the wrong answers for the threat you are facing.

Cards like leonin relic warder, leonin arbiter, trygon predator, ooze....those all work because they are answers AND threats.  With being so light on threats and having no hand/stack disruption, you give no pressure to your opponent to just answer your answer and then win in the window.  If the opponent HAS no maindeck answers, you can steal games dropping the right answers early...but I think more likely you lose that battle.  A deck with counterspells and trygons would love to meet your deck btw.