Planeswalker Control

[serracollector]

I will post the list with concepts after:

Counters: 9
4 x Force of Will
3 x Mana Drain
1 x Misdirection

Kill: 12
3 x Lightning Bolt
3 x Lightning Helix
3 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Burning Wish

Walkers: 9
3 x Jace tms
3 x Ajani Vengeant
3 x Ral Zarek

Draw: 5
1x Ancestral Recall
1 x Brainstorm
3 x Tezzeret's Gambit

Mana: 23
1 x Black Lotus
1 x Sol Ring
5 x Mox
3 x Volcanic Island
3 x Tundra
4 x Scalding Tarn
2 x Island
1 x Tolarian Achademy
1 x Library of Alexandria
1 x Plateau
1 x Flooded Strand

Utility: 2
1 x Timewalk
1 x Hurkyll's Recall

Sideboard:
1 x Pyoclasm
1 x Balance
2 x Morningtide
1 x Timetwister
1 x Tezzeret's Gambit
3 x Grafdiggers Cage
3 x Shattering Spree
1 x Mountain
2 x Mindbreak Trap/Flusterstorm


 

[Samoht]

Savor the Moment. You're welcome.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I messed around with a deck I called planeswalker control a little while ago but my walkers were 4 Jace, 2 Vengent, 1 Ral. And a secondary kill with tinker bot. It wad fun but I found other decks to just be better...

[Guli]

The deck will probably have a good time against any form of creature deck and heavy control. But I don't see how it can consistently win against blue combo control with 8 counters.

[vaughnbros]

The recent Welder strix lists are running 8+ copies of planeswalkers, Jace, Ral Zarek, both Tezz.  You can cut red in order to play lilianas, which improves the blue match up, but worsen the shops... The key card that makes all the planeswalkers so good is Baleful Strix.  He plays a very similar role to what Wall of Omens did when the deck was extremely popular in standard.

I know from testing with that and other similar builds, untapping with 2 planeswalkers alive and active is almost always game and the biggest difficulty of the deck is getting to 3/4 mana to start dropping your walkers before you are too far behind.  So if your deck plays out similarly I don't really see a reason to run Tezz's gambit or burning wish at all.  Effectively you are running 12 lightning bolts + 3 swords + Jace bounce + 1 hurkyl's, which seems a little bit overkill on removal.  Your mana count, counter package, tutors, and restricted finishers seem to be the casualties for such cards.

[mmcgeach]

I've been experimenting with builds including Ral Zarek...  I like the suggestion of Ajani Vengeant too, but...  I agree with vaughnbros' points too much:

The recent Welder strix lists are running 8+ copies of planeswalkers, Jace, Ral Zarek, both Tezz.... The key card that makes all the planeswalkers so good is Baleful Strix.

I think you want Strix.  Of course, then you might want something that synnergizes with Strix, like welder.  Or Tezz 2.0.  Or I've even tried Hidden Strings.  I dunno if Strix by itself if enough in every matchup.  Like, vs blue combo/control, as he mentioned, tapping out early to cycle isn't great.

...biggest difficulty of the deck is getting to 3/4 mana to start dropping your walkers before you are too far behind.

I agree here, too.  Although, I'll add if you're using Strix, the problem can also be getting to 2 mana and having basically no play at 1 mana.

But the main point is that getting out a walker is usually pretty good; although, HOW to get that guy out at 4 mana is pretty hard. 

Also, Ral Zarek doesn't do enough on his own in some (non creature) matchups.  Jace or Tezz 2.0 by themselves is an immediate game-ending threat.  Ral Zarek needs to combo with stuff that taps or untaps.  What I can find so far are:

+ time vault
+ mana vault (although, I frequently lack something to sink that mana into repeatedly)
+ howling mine (tapping this during your turn denies your opponent the card during their draw step, while you still get the extra card during your draw step.  Also this works when you animate howling mine with Tezz 2.0 and attack.)
+ library of alexandria
+ goblin welder
- stasis (except I'm pretty sure this sucks)

(Also note that baleful strix + hidden strings basically does Ral Zarek's +1 ability, which can be a strong play in some cases)

Anyway.  I'm hoping to get some thoughts about a) what builds make Ral Zarek good, and b) how to pack in enough counters/protection to resolve the 4-mana walkers.

 

[msg67183]

Why no love for Liliana of the Veil?
You draw so many cards off Agent of Bolas and Jace that the discard is basically irrelevant for you, or you can use it to discard a Strix then use Welder for shenanigans.
She protects herself, and is an out to Tinker->BSC if need be.

[Wave]

Why no love for Liliana of the Veil?
You draw so many cards off Agent of Bolas and Jace that the discard is basically irrelevant for you, or you can use it to discard a Strix then use Welder for shenanigans.
She protects herself, and is an out to Tinker->BSC if need be.

I played two Liliana instead of an out for Colossus together with the usual package of two of Jace, Tezz 1.0 and 2.0 in my last two tounaments. Although she was good all day especially when resolved against BOB or stax, I always felt that she was a dog to Snapcaster Mage. Every time my opponent played Snapcaster in the deck she felt like a two for one for the opponent. And despite all the card advantage from the walkers it was almost always a pain to discard a card since most cards played in vintage is good and the bad cards like moxes and stuff is already played when she hits the board. Although I can recommend her as an sideboard card.