[Free Podcast] Serious Vintage - The Human Condition

[GrandpaBelcher]

http://www.eternalcentral.com/serious-vintage-episode-17-the-human-condition/

For episode 17, Geoff (@ThallidTosser on Twitter) and Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher) are joined by Steven Stierman, the 4C Humans player who rocked the GenCon 2013 Vintage events with his disarming personality and well-armed aggro deck. We talk about Humans and the GenCon Vintage experience and then go straight to breakfast with a section on pancakes.

[brianpk80]

Nice topic; thanks for sharing. 

[Guli]

Hi, thanks for the podcast. Just one comment:

It is easy to make and eat pancakes when the recipe is at your disposal. The hard part is to come up with a recipe of your own.

[President Skroob]

Hi, thanks for the podcast. Just one comment:

It is easy to make and eat pancakes when the recipe is at your disposal. The hard part is to come up with a recipe of your own.

You're so rogue you even play Tribal Pancakes.

[TVand]

I was happy to hear chocolate chip pancakes getting some air time.  Love the chocolate chip pancakes.

Great podcast as always, gentlemen.

[kwis]

I sure hope people don't play this at BoM.

It's gonna be a nightmare, when your plan is to Tinker/Decay your way to victory.

[Guli]

Hi, thanks for the podcast. Just one comment:

It is easy to make and eat pancakes when the recipe is at your disposal. The hard part is to come up with a recipe of your own.

You're so rogue you even play Tribal Pancakes.

I play almost any deck in this meta when play testing. My comment was based on the fact that I am the lead designer of Human Oath. If we would be in a restaurant, Stierman would be a customer and I would be the head chef making the delicious food. He did add salt and pepper, I have no problems at all that my decks are being used and altered to the pilots own personal taste. In fact, that is one of the reasons I like to design and innovate decks.

However, I messaged Stierman after I saw his top 8, he didn't bother to reply. I congratulated him and asked him how it went. I was playing nice.

There is no mentioning of me or Brian in this podcast whatsoever. But they did make a reference to the 'tmd thread' and 'some guy'. So they are fully aware of where the list came from and who made it. So I wonder, what is the point of this all? If you are going to cover Humans, but not mention the pioneers of the archetype, what is your goal exactly here? We aren't asking for credit, or high praise, we are asking that things are done correctly without being rude. I prefer not being mentioned at all instead of being mentioned as 'some guy' or 'some dude'. You came and found the thread on tmd, you selected the deck list that was posted in such a way that it can be directly copied to cockatrice, you saw my name. You sleeved up 95 % of the cards, you took it to gen con, but you fail to recall the person who is behind the deck. Nice job! Again, congrats on your top 8 Steven Stierman, hope you do well in the future.

My suggestion would be to invite Brian Kelly to your next podcast on Humans, he can give a lot of insight and set things straight.

[nedleeds]

What a strange post. Who cares if he didn't name drop you on the internet? If you think you are the "lead chef" for a deck then your "work" should speak for itself the whole vintage community will clearly recoginize your handiwork because of your enduring fame. But if you care about your name echoing through the halls of the internet then pay for travel and top 8 a tourney with your "work".

[rooneg]

Man, I just sleeved up this deck list for side events at GP DC, I sure hope I remember to mention the full lineage of the design to anyone I happen to play against, just to be sure that nobody gets the wrong idea about who had what idea when.</sarcasm>

[Guli]

You guys are missing the point. It is not about fame. It is about respect and being nice to each other. And this forum has done a lot mocking and trolling towards many people in the past, including me. You can sleeve up whatever you wan't to play in a tourney, and you can call it your own deck, it is fine. But when you go make a podcast about it, that you are clearly posting on a site with a decent amount of viewers, it is unacceptable that you 'forget' the name of the guy who played a key role in designing the deck, which you took to an event and did well with. If you are going to talk about a deck that unique, and if some of the vintage writers are going to cover it, then it is strange that nowhere there is even the slightest mentioning of the creator of the deck, which is me. After gen con, there are several articles and pod casts and if you go listen/read to them you will understand what I mean. The Human thread in the null rod section of this site is clearly a big thread. It is also something that has a history and people behind it. You can't just 'miss' that can you? And in the podcast, they even talk about the thread as a source. I do not appreciate this kind of neglectfulness and I am voicing my opinion on the matter. Why does this bother people so much? Why is it such a big deal when I step up, what is wrong with being the designer of something and saying that when others 'forget' to mention it? Go read some vintage articles of decks, there is a persons name and a deck name when a list is being used as a reference. A podcast or an article is NOT the same thing as a top 8 result list. The top 8 performance has nothing to do with me, I have no claim to it whatsoever, but when you start talking about the deck and want to do a show on it, you should do it in a respectable and proper manner. This would not increase my fame, but it would make me happy that they mentioned me and others who put a lot time and energy in making these human decks work. And I would appreciate it. It would be a nice gesture. Isn't it better to be nice?

My final note on this matter is that: many think that I do not play in tournaments or haven't gotten a top 8 with humans. This is wrong. Please refrain from posting the opposite whenever you feel cornered in a debate or discussion.

[xouman]

I'm with Guli on this. If one player creates a deck and another player plays it for greater success, first player should have credit for deck building and second player for be a great player. Maybe you don't give any credit for the list itself: it's ok. But you shouldn't talk about "Smith's innovative deck" if it was Johnson who designed it, even if Smith was the player who took the deck to a great result. Well, you can, but some acknowledgement is appreciated. 

We talk about Menendian's decks even when he don't play them. Or noble fish. While 4C humans hasn't to be called "guli's humans", saying his name and brian's would be fair, imho.

[PeAcH]

Our (Vintage) community should be able to refer to itself in terms of creation, history, and evolution.

This way we have a reference to move on and advance as a whole. In order to move forward we need goals and milestones as much as we need references to talk about the process of doing so.

Without all these references, we get lost in the process.

[Grand Inquisitor]

While 4C humans hasn't to be called "guli's humans", saying his name and brian's would be fair, imho.

But Human Ingenuity is kinda clunky.  And both have definitely contributed to its development (I'm aware of more T8s from Brian).  Since they're from either side of the Atlantic, how about: Inter-coastal-humans or ICH!  (pronounced "ik!")

[Ten-Ten]

But Human Ingenuity is kinda clunky.  And both have definitely contributed to its development (I'm aware of more T8s from Brian).  Since they're from either side of the Atlantic, how about: Inter-coastal-humans or ICH!  (pronounced "ik!")

How about calling it "Caverns HI"?

Im with guli on this, btw.

Other than that, ok podcast.