VINTAGE on Magic Online is announced!!!

[Klep]

Sadly for you Skullclamp is a mythic rare in Vintage Masters.

Lol!

[bactgudz]

Sadly for you Skullclamp is a mythic rare in Vintage Masters.

Lol!

Can you image skullclamp at less than rare in a draft format with goblins as a tribal theme?  That would not have been pretty.

[Klep]

Sadly for you Skullclamp is a mythic rare in Vintage Masters.

Lol!

Can you image skullclamp at less than rare in a draft format with goblins as a tribal theme?  That would not have been pretty.

I actually thought it was uncommon, thanks largely to the fact that the card image gallery uses old images.  I really wish they'd fix that.

[Zherbus]

I am pretty sure it uses, by default, the most recent version of a card. As this set isn't really "out", they default to the last printing... I think.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I'll be highly amused if Conspiracy/Vintage Masters features a dramatically overpowered Goblin that makes the tribe Vintage-viable.

Ie.

Goblin Extremist
Critter - Goblin Rogue,
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, exile a random spell or permanent that player controls.
2/0

[dangerlinto]

I actually thought it was uncommon, thanks largely to the fact that the card image gallery uses old images.  I really wish they'd fix that.

http://forums.classicquarter.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=211 <-- More up-to-date and accurate rarities (when known) if less visual.

[boxian]

Basandra is such a dud, I'm pretty annoyed by it. If it just was templated in a modern fashion (it came out in 2011 Commander) it wouldn't be the worst - it needs to say "Your opponents can't cast spells during combat." As is, the RW combat trick guild/color pair can't play...you guessed it, combat tricks. Womp womp. Good art though.

[worstbandnameever]

So, I have decided I am DEFINITELY going to buy into Vintage Masters; HARD.     I realize that if I get an account with every Vintage Playable on it, I can share it with guys like Tommy Kolowith;  for those that don't know, Tommy is highly regarded as the best vintage player of the modern era.    He stopped playing in 2010. 

I had no interested in MTGO before this.  I've recently picked up a few of the cards I would need for Stax and White Trash that won't be in the set.  I hope fetch lands are in here as well.  I would love to play Oath as well.

As for Tommy Kolowith, Why doesn't he play vintage anymore?  Are you certain he still wants to be a part of this?

[Klep]

Well Mana Drain is a Mythic, which is discouraging.

[JarofFortune]

They just spoiled mana drain, eureka, and Ichorid. I actually enjoyed the spoiler article for Ichorid on the Wizard's site, because it actually talks about constructed vintage, and ends in the line: "Vintage is Awesome!". Even if the dredge sideboard in the article is horribly misbuilt, and there were some lines that purported the stereotype of Vintage being a turn 1 or 2 format, it is a great start.

    I can see Eureka being Mythic for limited purposes (and it just feels like a mythic), but making Mana Drain a mythic rare is just stupid. Wizards is overvaluing the mana boost. It would be perfectly balanced at rare, while adding more copies into the market.

Edit: Brain Freeze, Norwood Priestess, and several more conspiracy cards are in. Workshop is in as a mythic.

[KrauserKrauser]

Drains weren't that bad at 20 tix.  This should keep them somewhat stable.

[dangerlinto]

Well Mana Drain is a Mythic, which is discouraging.

Most of the restricted cards will be Mythic (can't imagine Brainstorm or Lotus Petal as mythics), along with the "build around me cards banned in Vintage" (Shops, Oath, Bazaar, Drain) and the few ridiculous Limited bombs (Upheaval).  Skullclamp falls into both the later categories.  Add whatever Conspriracy cards are mythic.  

I would suggest (as I did in my spoiler article for Workshop) that you might as well buy the mythics now if you don't have them.  However, just because Drain is Mythic doesn't mean the card will be stupid expensive.  The large amount that came in MED3 should keep that from happening. Being mythic won't be so bad - not when people are chasing power.   But keep in mind getting a playset of any one Mythic card is twice as hard as getting a playset (1) of power, so buying now will just save you time.

Plus old Drains look better

I had no interested in MTGO before this.  I've recently picked up a few of the cards I would need for Stax and White Trash that won't be in the set.  I hope fetch lands are in here as well.  I would love to play Oath as well.

I doubt you'll see Fetchlands as everyone expects them to come back in a Standard set sometime.

Oath is cheap right now.  Same advice as I gave to Klep.  Buy those VMA mythics now.

[JPoJohnson]

I'll be highly amused if Conspiracy/Vintage Masters features a dramatically overpowered Goblin that makes the tribe Vintage-viable.

Ie.

Goblin Extremist
Critter - Goblin Rogue,
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, exile a random spell or permanent that player controls.
2/0

I think Goblins were Vintage-Viable to a certain extent?

[Smmenen]

Is this the first alternative Mishra's Workshop art that Wizards ever printed? 

[bactgudz]

Is this the first alternative Mishra's Workshop art that Wizards ever printed? 

It was in the cube with that art.

[Soly]

You have to understand that outside of being a "vintage Masters" set, they also want to print playables that are extremely hard to get for other formats, and also make a balanced, FUN Draft format.  Skullclamp at Mythic is understandable for drafting, as is almost every Mythic they spoiled.  There are reasons Astral Slide and Decree of Justice, as well as Upheaval are in this set, and that's Limited.

[fsecco]

Don't you guys think this set has a fundamental problem by making P9 extra-special-rare? It's like they're trying to make the same mistakes on MTGO than they made IRL.

Every single vintage deck needes at least some of the P9. They probably should've been just rare, maybe mythic, if they were actually trying to make the format viable.

[bactgudz]

Don't you guys think this set has a fundamental problem by making P9 extra-special-rare? It's like they're trying to make the same mistakes on MTGO than they made IRL.

Every single vintage deck needes at least some of the P9. They probably should've been just rare, maybe mythic, if they were actually trying to make the format viable.

If power was more common, then other cards the format needs would be much too rare relative to power; it's likely not enough packs would then get opened and we would have a shortage of non-power staples on the market.  The way it is now, for each playset of power we get into the market, we get a playset of most things you need to build a vintage deck(still only half a playset of unrestricted mythics though).  Power is not going to be a bottleneck to Vintage.

[AmbivalentDuck]

MOSTLY agree. I think this overprints Time Vault and underprints Timetwister. I don't think it matters much though.

[ben_berry]

"Power is not going to be a bottleneck to Vintage (MTGO)."

In the short term only.

[fsecco]

Power is not going to be a bottleneck to Vintage.

I disagree. Most other cards released in Vintage Masters already were available on MTGO. P9 are CRUCIAL to build any single Vintage deck (very few exceptions). That will make Vintage players rare on MTGO as well. For me it's such a mistake... =/

[bactgudz]

Power is not going to be a bottleneck to Vintage.

I disagree. Most other cards released in Vintage Masters already were available on MTGO. P9 are CRUCIAL to build any single Vintage deck (very few exceptions). That will make Vintage players rare on MTGO as well. For me it's such a mistake... =/

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[dangerlinto]

Don't you guys think this set has a fundamental problem by making P9 extra-special-rare? It's like they're trying to make the same mistakes on MTGO than they made IRL.

Every single vintage deck needes at least some of the P9. They probably should've been just rare, maybe mythic, if they were actually trying to make the format viable.

1) The Power 9 are restricted.  A playset is ONE.  

The last time this happened in what is the only remotely-comparable set (MED4), the cards that were restricted were basically over-printed.

Even though there is no analog for something like the P9, there is something to be said for having to guess at just how infrequent you have to make something that is needed 4x less than anything else, depending on how many people actually want it.

2) The mistake they made IRL wasn't Power becoming rare.  It was promising never to print it (and everything else remotely good) ever again.  No such promise exists online.  To wit, your comment sounds EXACTLY the same as all the other complaints when Force of Will was climbing ever upward.  It's been promoed twice and now reprinted.  Problem solved.

Power is not going to be a bottleneck to Vintage.

I disagree. Most other cards released in Vintage Masters already were available on MTGO. P9 are CRUCIAL to build any single Vintage deck (very few exceptions). That will make Vintage players rare on MTGO as well. For me it's such a mistake... =/

It's a good thing there's the Legacy crowd who outnumber (and probably will forever out number) the Vintage crowd then, so they can buy up all those juicy rares for Legacy (read: duals, FOW, etc) and sell the power they don't need

[TVand]

To make some of the points in this thread a little more concrete, let's put down some numbers.  Say you're gunning for both a playset of an unrestricted mythic rare (let's just say Mana Drain) in VM and a "playset" (read: 1 copy) of power (Lotus, for example).  If you can expect to open a Mana Drain every N packs, a playset takes 4N packs to complete.  Since Wizards has stated that specific pieces of power are twice as rare as specific mythics, you're going to have that Black Lotus "playset" in only 2N packs - half as many.  So for every playset of mythics this set puts into circulation it's putting out 2 "playsets" of power.  To me it doesn't seem so bad.

[fsecco]

Yeah, maybe it's not that terrible. But the difference between 4 Mana Drain and P9 is that at least 6 of the P9 (Lotus and Moxen) go in every frigging deck. Mana Drain doesn't, and when it does, sometimes it doesn't even hit 4's.

We'll wait and see, but I don't like the prognostics. Hopefully I'm wrong.

ps: Oh, and what I said about "making the same mistakes as IRL" was actually about defining policies that, on the long run, will bring issues to Vintage playability. I mean, Vintage is what it is because they decided on the Reserved List. Vintage on MTGO may as well suffer because their decision on card rarity. As I said, I hope I'm wrong.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Only sort of. They can always give out power instead of tix as the prize for winning Vintage tourneys. Just like IRL except that tourneys would suddenly add more cards to the mix, not just redistribute them.

[bactgudz]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see them do power for mocs promos as well.  This is just the first release of power online, they aren't prohibiting themselves from doing more in the future like irl.  It doesn't seem like the rarity is completely unreasonable now, and if they need to fix it in the future they have the ability to.

[Zherbus]

Card rarity =/= Card never being printed again

[JarofFortune]

Slightly off topic, but has to do with reprints. Misdirection and exploration are being reprinted in Conspiracy with new art! This shows wotc is now willing to reprint some medium-priced nom-reserved cards in large amounts.

[Smmenen]

Awesome!  It seems they really are going out of their way to make Vintage staples available!  Misdirection and LED were two biggies.