VINTAGE on Magic Online is announced!!!

[Smmenen]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg_daily_other_10212013_vintagemasters

* Vintage arrives on Magic Online June 11, 2014

* Vintage Masters Pre-Release is June 13, 2014

Our world has changed.

Awesome!

[LotusHead]

I'm just a wee bit stunned.  They said something about having all relevent Vintage cards availiable.

I've never played MTGO (only MWS etc)

When should I sign up?

[TVand]

Well well, this is fantastic news to be sure.  I'm glad they're including P9 in packs of a draftable set - that guarantees the potential for a bunch of copies to hit the market (versus, say, giving them out in limited numbers as prizes).  Also, according to the article (if I'm reading it correctly), nonfoil P9 can appear in the foil slot.  I have no idea what the ratios are, but it sounds like this only increases the amount of P9 put into circulation.

[Shock Wave]

Finally! Really looking forward to this

[MaximumCDawg]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg_daily_other_10212013_vintagemasters

Our world has changed.

Awesome!

Whoa!

Now, I'm not gonna get in line to order up virtual versions of Power.  Magic isn't about playing in your basement on the computer, it's about going out and interacting with other people.  However... anything that gets the Vintage format more accessibility, lowers the buy-in, and possibly lays the groundwork for the expansion of the format is A-OK in my book!

I hope this is the first step down a long and successful road to the resurgence of the format!

EDIT: On the other hand, playing in a limited format where you can draft Shops or Dredge seems pretty flipp'n awesome...

[LotusHead]

EDIT: On the other hand, playing in a limited format where you can draft Shops or Dredge seems pretty flipp'n awesome...

I acquired a few Alliances/Weatherlight/Mirage packs at cover price in 2004, and did crazy limited Bring your own Pack event in Vacaville. (5th dawn, Onslaught, etc).

A youngin got passed a Force of WIll (by me, any awesome uncommons were part of the prize pool), and he DOMINATED that draft (while I floundered in 5c Bringer.dec land).

So now little Alex (actually one of first members of Team Vacaville) got his first Force of Will.  He immediately build a mono-blue Nevinryal's Disk/Darksteel Gargoyle/FOW deck that had FORCE OF WILL as one of it's win conditions.  He later won a Library (2nd place, 1st Eudo Lotus event, and TimeTwister (1st play, Lunar event) )

Limited with Vintage playables is superfuckingawesomelyfantasti c!

[Varal]

Well well, this is fantastic news to be sure.  I'm glad they're including P9 in packs of a draftable set - that guarantees the potential for a bunch of copies to hit the market (versus, say, giving them out in limited numbers as prizes).  Also, according to the article (if I'm reading it correctly), nonfoil P9 can appear in the foil slot.  I have no idea what the ratios are, but it sounds like this only increases the amount of P9 put into circulation.

I understood it as there is no Power 9 at normal rarity but only in the foil/power slot. If they reprint all the vintage playable cards in the set it'll make staples such as Lion's Eye Diamond and Force of Will more affordable.

I don't intend to invest online but if it increases live players as a result I'll be pretty happy.

[gkraigher]

The best part of this is getting a more accelerated meta-game in vintage. 

 I am really happy about this, can't wait to draft it next summer, and am excited to see wizards supporting the format (even as it makes them gobs and gobs of money.)

[The Atog Lord]

Whenever I've tried playing MODO, its horrid interface has made me regret that decision. I like the idea of being able to play Vintage online. However, it would really only be worthwhile if they can make MODO a good experience, and not just a poor substitute. Also, I can't say I relish the idea of re-acquiring my collection online.

[GainsBanding]

Can't Wait!

I'm an online-only player and I just lurk on TMD since I can't play real Vintage (I am very active in Classic online, which is Vintage with no P9 and a different restricted list).

But, I recommend getting on MTGO now if you are interested.  Prices are only going to go up.  If you are brand new, expect to spend $1000 or so to get the staples.  Most cards are way cheaper!  Workshop $28.  Time Vault $5.  Force of Will is $100 though.  Sorry.  But if it gets reprinted in Vintage Masters, it will go down.  

You really do get used to the clunky interface and just focus on the game after not too long.  Besides, you'll want to know its quirks before playing for money
For Example:
tap workshop for 3 workshop mana, cast skullclamp for 1, tap ancient tomb for 2 regular mana, equip skullclamp for 1 to kill an x/1 and draw two cards, cast a 2-drop, OOPS MTGO just automatically used your regular mana for that when you meant to use your workshop mana... you now have 1 workshop mana floating and you can't equip skullclamp again. womp womp.

This will really accelerate changes in the Vintage metagame (the Affinity list that recently showed up in Vintage came from a MTGO Classic list that is the deck to beat).  MTGO currently has 2 or 3 Classic 4-round Swiss tournaments a day.  About one of those fires a week (events only fire if they reach the minimum 16 players).  With the initial excitement when Vintage launches, I would expect 10-15 tournaments a week firing for the first few weeks (especially if prize support is good), and tapering off after that.  I'm not sure how it will affect you paper guys.  It depends on how many of you come online and/or follow what's happening Online.  MTGO might just be its own separate metagame.  

Welcome to MTGO!  I can't wait to post here as a real Vintage player!  

[TVand]

I understood it as there is no Power 9 at normal rarity but only in the foil/power slot. If they reprint all the vintage playable cards in the set it'll make staples such as Lion's Eye Diamond and Force of Will more affordable.

Maybe you're right.  The article isn't entirely clear, though it would make sense if they put Power at its own special rarity, as unfortunate as that would be.

[yugular]

YAY! Can't wait! So excited! Even more so because I was worried/afraid that P9 was going to be given out as a price in few events in the first place making it very rare. Now it will be rare but you can open it with luck. Definitely excited about the opportunity to draft this set and finally get Vintage in mtgo! I am modo player only, sold my paper collection already.

I've never played MTGO (only MWS etc)

When should I sign up?

Now. If you want to play Vintage in modo you should start building collection now. Like GainsBanding said some of the staples are really cheap, but some staples have been creeping up in price since the first hints about the format coming online about 6 months ago. For example see Underground Sea price progress: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Underground+Sea+%5BME2%5D

Legacy is also growing in popularity in mtgo which drives prices. Vintage Masters is an opportunity for wotc to make some key reprints like FoW, LED and Wasteland & Rishadan Port.

[fendog]

Regarding MODO cards like Mishra's Workshop and Underground Sea: Are they not going to be "reprinted" from time to time? I'm not familiar with how Magic Online releases cards. Is it similar to paper Magic in that certain sets such as Masters Editions are available only for a limited time?

[yugular]

Regarding MODO cards like Mishra's Workshop and Underground Sea: Are they not going to be "reprinted" from time to time? I'm not familiar with how Magic Online releases cards. Is it similar to paper Magic in that certain sets such as Masters Editions are available only for a limited time?

We don't know. They can reprint whatever that want anytime they wish, but they haven't quaranteed anything. (sorry if the grammar is bad, english isn't my first language). Typically (at least two years in a row) we have had Masters Edition available for drafting during Christmas holiday. ME has lots of Vintage staples in it, but some cards like LED, Wasteland & FoW aren't in Masters Edition. We also have flashback draft formats few weeks before new sets release. Sometimes they are old formats like Mercadian Masques block etc.

[GainsBanding]

Regarding MODO cards like Mishra's Workshop and Underground Sea: Are they not going to be "reprinted" from time to time? I'm not familiar with how Magic Online releases cards. Is it similar to paper Magic in that certain sets such as Masters Editions are available only for a limited time?

Yes, the sets are only for sale in the online store for a limited time.  For Standard sets this mirrors paper.  For pre-MTGO blocks (Mirage - Masques) they weren't consistent about it at all.  Packs don't really get cracked online though (the cards are so cheap, you lose money if you just open your packs), so new cards really only enter the system through drafting.  Again, the Standard sets come and go with their paper counterparts.  All of the old blocks starting with Mirage were draftable for six months or more straight at one time, then were retired.  The old blocks return from time to time, usually for a week.  This has changed a lot over the years, but their current strategy is to have one "throwback" block draftable during the week when a new Standard set has come out in paper but hasn't been released online yet.  So that means we are currently only getting 4 "throwback" drafts a year.  And they aren't always particularly old sets.  The last three I remember were: RGD when Theros came out, ROE when M14 came out, and SHM when Dragon's Maze came out.  I remember a week of Masques around Christmas and some Masters Edition around Thanksgiving.  Earlier stuff like TSE or MVW used to be fairly frequent, but I seriously can't remember the last time those came around.  2011 maybe?  So rares (and uncommons like Wasteland) from those sets have climbed steadily up in price over the past few years.

TLDR: Yes, they can get more cards into the system through specialty drafts, but they have been very very stingy about it for the last couple years.  This may change in the next six months with them promoting Vintage, and of course prices will be affected by whatever is reprinted in Vintage Masters.

[Meddling Mike]

I think that regardless of whether you are interested in playing Vintage on MTGO or not this is a good thing for the health of the format. It might encourage WotC to give vintage a bit more consideration and will almost certainly widen the player base by exposing people to the format.

[PeAcH]

As a Vintage player at heart as I am, I’m really happy to read this announcement.

For a long time now, I (and I guess all of us) have been looking for a move from Wizards to try to give Vintage a (saving) hand.

Two years ago when I was getting back home from Annecy BoM 2012 with a friend of mine we were talking about the state of the format. Our conclusion was that minor leagues at least in Spain would simply perish. The official support on the format, the initial buy-in barrier understood by some as a cost and not as an investment and the growing age of the players were badly calling for a dark ugly end. We  thought that we would just travel to big European events as a holidays-with-the-guys kind of thing...Going to France for the BoM and to Italy for Ovino and DDay and the such seemed awesome vacations plan going ahead. However, without having an established local metagame to practice, things would be more like "we do it because we like it" and because we love competing in the format in the good sense of the word and for everything else the format used to be for us.

I was really reluctant to accept the new situation to happen for some time...Two years have passed, we have seen the Basque Vintage League disappear and now the Madrid league lowering attendance to around 20 players, all this has made us think about the (bad) state of Vintage (at least in Spain). In the Catalan Vintage League (LCV) we are keeping up the fight with more than 40 people every month and we have some people not attending for different commitments with family, work and such. We know we are around 50 people more or less. However, the situation is really far from desirable. We used to run events in Barcelona with around 100 people. But everyone knows it’s not like this anymore...

We had reached a point were we finally had to accepted it: The format would never rise again unless some drastic action was taken by the major players in the story. And there seemed none was going to happen. This very exact conversation was held by a group of Vintage players last week after a playtesting session in Barcelona. "Let’s face it guys. It’s over".

For a long time my thoughts on the WotC policy regarding Vintage have been concerned on one thing only: How can they let the first and purest form of Magic die? I know Vintage is not what they really think Magic should be...It’s quite the opposite to Standard, Modern and Limited. To some point, it should not even exist according to what the other formats are and represent nowadays. But for these controlled, fair formats to exist, there needs to be a Vintage counterpart to exist too. It’s the history of the game. The roots of what other formats are. We should not forget it.

Today's announcement is part of what we have long timed waited for. And I really hope this announcement changes some things for good.

The main one being Vintage ceasing to be seen as a casual format.

It’s not.

You know it.

We have all the pool of Magic cards ever printed. Isn’t it challenging and complicated to build a 60 card deck that wins versus the REST of the field?  It should be the most complicated format EVER to building around and the most skill intensive for the swingness and brokenness of some plays. We know Magic players are competitive, they like challenges and like to undertake an evolution process as they become better and better. It’s the thrill of the game!

For this reason, I hope Pros like LSV and Owen get back to the format to lead the way. Why did they leave by the way? They seemed to have a blast of a time playing it and we all loved them playing Vintage and sharing their thoughts on it. Having public faces in Vintage’s side is one of the best ways to spread the word.

I really hope non Vintage people get in the format too with this measure. First online and then offline. You know they will get hooked. You have been there. It’s fun, it’s competitive, it’s complicated to the max and you can play with all the good cards. What more can one ask for?

There seems to be some a new hope for us Vintage community.

Thank you Wizards.

Well played.

Let’s see where you take us.

[gkraigher]

For this reason, I hope Pros like LSV and Owen get back to the format to lead the way. Why did they leave by the way? They seemed to have a blast of a time playing it and we all loved them playing Vintage and sharing their thoughts on it. Having public faces in Vintage’s side is one of the best ways to spread the word.

I don't think they have, it's just that last year's Vintage Worlds overlapped with the actual Magic World Championship, which has a much higher payout structure and platinum pros get appearance fees.  

[personalbackfire]

I am pretty stoked about this. I started to buy into Legacy online to test for GP DC and while I agree that the program can use an upgrade, it has been a good experience. Currently I don't have time to spend hours and hours a night at a game store, even if I had a game store full of legacy/vintage players, so MTGO is the perfect solution. If I do have a few hours I can jump in a Daily, if not I can play for free in the tournament practice room, or play in a 2-man tournament (2 tickets, winner gets a pack).

I am convinced that MTGO has made me better at ANT (the deck I bought into), as well as allowing me to test multiple versions and side board options.

I think overall this is a great thing. I look forward to playing some of the players I would hardly ever get a chance to play in real life online, like Menendian, LSV, or whoever.

[KrauserKrauser]

I'm very glad to see this is how they are handling the release of P9 on MTGO.

I just hope they don't pussy-foot around and include garbage like the CoK Legendary Dragons in the set.  Force of Will and Wasteland printed at their native uncommon would blow the doors off the hinges for Vintage and Legacy on MTGO.

[Purple Hat]

I think the chess clock and the interface will make most decks unplayable. For example, Mtgo forces you to select colors every time you tap a dual even when you're casting an artifact.  I've lost many matches to getting clocked with vitu ghazi guildmage in play because it takes 30 seconds or a minute to activate it in mtgo compared to 1 second live.  Eventually I had to stop drafting him despite the fact that he is amazing in draft.with so many choices in a vintage game I just think it is going to be horribly format warping.  Playing stax, for example, will be a mess.

[Klep]

I'm really not thrilled by the price point from what we know right now.  I really hope the non-P9 cards in the set are enough to justify a pack costing $7.  Ideally they would put out some box set at some price where I could just buy the P9, like a From the Vaults kind of deal.  My initial thought is that I don't really want a set that has power in it; I just want the power.  On the other hand, if every card in Vintage Masters is an important Vintage card (duals, shops, FoWs, etc.), then that might be enough.

[bactgudz]

I think the chess clock and the interface will make most decks unplayable. For example, Mtgo forces you to select colors every time you tap a dual even when you're casting an artifact.  I've lost many matches to getting clocked with vitu ghazi guildmage in play because it takes 30 seconds or a minute to activate it in mtgo compared to 1 second live.  Eventually I had to stop drafting him despite the fact that he is amazing in draft.with so many choices in a vintage game I just think it is going to be horribly format warping.  Playing stax, for example, will be a mess.

This hasn't been a problem for most decks so far.  Stax already exists as a deck in classic, upkeep triggers and all and time is rarely a factor in playing it.  In fact, I'd argue that most decks can be piloted faster online...shuffling is instantaneous, mana, storm count, revealed cards are tracked for you automatically.

[Chill79]

Time to save cash for next summer,have to draft 24/7 that set although i have allmost all i need except FoW:s....

Same nick on MODO if someone needs opponent to practise Classic/Vintage

-Jyri-

[Prospero]

I'll just echo a lot of what has already been said:

1.  While I like the idea of Vintage being available on MTGO, I don't play computer games, and this form of the game (albeit still Vintage) is not enough to get me on MTGO.  I don't think that's going to change, but you never know.  I hope that those members of the community who have left because of time constraints come back to play online.  I'd love to see some of the old names playing again.

2.  If my stance were different, and I was willing to play Vintage online, I'd have real issues with the cost.  Having spent thousands of dollars acquiring power, Shops, Tabernacles, etc., I wouldn't want to suddenly have to re-invest in pixels of cards that I own.  I understand that Wizards hasn't benefited directly from those purchases, but they're a real cost that I've borne.  I can't rationalize expending a significant sum to own a duplicate copy of my Vintage collection.

This may sound absurd, but I'd never pay $28 for a Workshop.  I've been told that Tangle Wire is also very, very expensive on MTGO.  This is, effectively, a computer game.  If I'm ever going to play a computer game, I'm going to look to spend something along the lines of what a computer game would run me.  MTGO doesn't age, and become less relevant, in the way that most computer games do, so there is something to be said for that.  Still, my sweet spot is the $200-$300 range to pick up the cards that I'd need to play, if I were going to play.  $500 would probably be my breaking point.

3.  While I'll be sitting on the sidelines, I'm going to be excited to see what goes on.  This should speed up metagame shifts and it should do wonders for innovation in the format.  The effects of this will be seen in cardboard tournaments.  I'd imagine that this could be a shot in the arm for interest in the format as well; if you're a world-beater on MTGO, would you consider picking up the physical cards that you need in order to play in a monthly Vintage series?  I'd imagine so.

I would have liked to have seen this done before the end of 2013, but it's a tremendous amount of expensive coding that has to be done, and the extra six months won't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

I look forward to what this does to Vintage.  I think the format has needed this for a while.  Kudos, Wizards.

[Pomaxx]

finally!

as RL Vintage is pretty much dead over here, i am looking forward to play some competitive matches whenever i find some spare time on my laptop onc they release this.

[dangerlinto]

I've been told that Tangle Wire is also very, very expensive on MTGO...

Indeed.  I expect that much like Modern Masters was a method to help correct some of the market issues for that format, so too will this be a chance to adjust some of the outliers in online pricing.  

2.  If my stance were different, and I was willing to play Vintage online, I'd have real issues with the cost.  Having spent thousands of dollars acquiring power, Shops, Tabernacles, etc., I wouldn't want to suddenly have to re-invest in pixels of cards that I own.  I understand that Wizards hasn't benefited directly from those purchases, but they're a real cost that I've borne.  I can't rationalize expending a significant sum to own a duplicate copy of my Vintage collection.

Absolutely this is a sticky issue for any player between online and offline.

There is a real cost/benefit analysis that has to be done by each and every paper Vintage player.  Including their emotional and physical attachment to the paper cards themselves as collectibles, which I expect will weigh heavily in making that decision.  Because if that was not a factor, online would simply crush owner paper versions of vintage decks.  It will cost you less and you be able to use them much, much more in a competitive setting.    Still the cost is not so little that it's not a significant addition for anyone who would try to play both.  If you can't give up paper and you are not able to spend quite a bit of money online, you will not be playing Vintage online.

3.  While I'll be sitting on the sidelines, I'm going to be excited to see what goes on.  This should speed up metagame shifts and it should do wonders for innovation in the format.  The effects of this will be seen in cardboard tournaments.  I'd imagine that this could be a shot in the arm for interest in the format as well; if you're a world-beater on MTGO, would you consider picking up the physical cards that you need in order to play in a monthly Vintage series?  I'd imagine so.

I think everyone hopes that is the case.  Because no matter how much I love playing online, there is NOTHING, NOTHING like even watching real power being played.  I wish it happened more and got more attention.

[gkraigher]

the from the vault 20 tangle wire is substantially lower than the MM online.  

[personalbackfire]

the from the vault 20 tangle wire is substantially lower than the MM online. 

Yea from my understanding, Masks Block was released on MTGO as a block pack product (each pack contained cards from the whole block  instead of each set being released individually). Because of that there is less of a supply of cards from that block.

[dangerlinto]

the from the vault 20 tangle wire is substantially lower than the MM online.  

Yea from my understanding, Masks Block was released on MTGO as a block pack product (each pack contained cards from the whole block  instead of each set being released individually). Because of that there is less of a supply of cards from that block.

That, but mostly because Masques block is excruciatingly boring.  So nobody drafted it and thus it's "print run" is small.  Print runs on MTGO are basically determined on-demand.  When they printed the pre-Ipa sets online, none of them were ever part of a Standard environment and thus the demand for packs is low if a) the cards in the packs aren't good in eternal environments and b) the draft experience is not generally likable.  Masques block hit's the bottom mark of pretty much both those criteria (Mirage block might have too if it didn't have the novelty of being the first one they put online in 2005).