VINTAGE on Magic Online is announced!!!

[AmbivalentDuck]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure
My favorite DRM irony.

40 years from now I can play a kitchen table game with proxy Magic cards.  I can probably play proxy Magic long after the Rapture, because I'll still be here.

You can already play "proxy" Magic online. Cockatrice!

[policehq]

I'm really, really excited about this. There is NOTHING in my area that allows me to play Vintage at any remotely convenient time. I've been active in the Pauper and Modern community on MTGO, and this is a huge step up for a reasonable cost. Collections and tickets can be sold, whether they're data or cardboard. You're definitely losing money with your "investment," and Magic cards are impossibly hard to liquidate well. Any complaints about cost from a VINTAGE forum are ridiculous.

You guys are going to get DAILY reports on decklists that go 4-0 and 3-1 in tournaments. More Pros and grinders can get involved, which will either bring innovation or necessitate format attention.

As long as I own basic Plains and a Sharpie, I can play kitchen table magic.

My only recommendation is not to play Dragon online.

[dangerlinto]

I just realized I never posted this here - it's probably relevant to anyone who wants to look up how much their Vintage decks currently cost online:

http://puremtgo.com/articles/price-vintage-part-2

The meaty data is in the table in the middle of the article.

[DubDub]

Do Smokestack and/or Tangle Wire even work online?  I'm seeing someone say over on the Source (in a comment related to Braids) that you can just advance straight to draw step because of the new trigger rules and blame your opponent for not announcing the triggers fast enough.  In my opinion that crosses the line into cheating, but it's not something I'd want to deal with either as a workshop pilot (were I one).  Making two major lock pieces optional is dumb.  Maybe this is more of an issue with the new triggers policy, which I still don't agree with, but hard-coding those interactions on MGTO seems to me likely to lead to more problems than in-person competition.

[bactgudz]

Do Smokestack and/or Tangle Wire even work online?  I'm seeing someone say over on the Source (in a comment related to Braids) that you can just advance straight to draw step because of the new trigger rules and blame your opponent for not announcing the triggers fast enough.  In my opinion that crosses the line into cheating, but it's not something I'd want to deal with either as a workshop pilot (were I one).  Making two major lock pieces optional is dumb.  Maybe this is more of an issue with the new triggers policy, which I still don't agree with, but hard-coding those interactions on MGTO seems to me likely to lead to more problems than in-person competition.

They work fine online. The person on the source is mistaken if he was inferring that the new trigger policy has any implications online.  It is very hard to even miss optional triggers online since they always pop up; the equivalent of missing a trigger would be mis-clicking no instead of yes. It is impossible to miss mandatory triggers online.

[Craft]

All triggers go on the stack in MTGO no matter what (controlling player can also stack concurrent triggers in an order of their choosing). Advancing through phases requires acknowledgement of both players for the most part (you can choose to automatically pass or retain priority for any given phase).

[DubDub]

Ok that's reassuring.  I don't know where that Braids story is coming from then.

[rooneg]

Ok that's reassuring.  I don't know where that Braids story is coming from then.

I believe that person was talking about playing on Cockatrice or one of the other programs that lets you simulate a game of Magic over the internet, but does not actually enforce the rules. MTGO is significantly different, it does enforce the rules, as opposed to just giving you a UI that lets you go through the physical steps of a game.

[Smmenen]

I just realized I never posted this here - it's probably relevant to anyone who wants to look up how much their Vintage decks currently cost online:

http://puremtgo.com/articles/price-vintage-part-2

The meaty data is in the table in the middle of the article.

Fantastic article.  Please send this to Wizards folks, as many as you can. 

[Twiedel]

So, after some gentleman with a lot of Ms and Ns in his user name pointed out in Philly that MTGO might be a good idea for future Vintage, I've been checking out the platform for about 2 weeks now... and let me tell you, it is so much worse than playing with actual cards (especially vintage cards) for me.

But nevertheless, I must admit that

a) it is good to get any more tournaments & results for our slow moving metagame
b) if that adds only a little support from Wizards' side, good for all of us
c) it got me hooked!

I will be playing Vintage on MTGO as soon as possible, getting my pool apart from the Power ready this month. The idea of having an easy opportunity to play with people all over the world in a competitive way is just too awesome to not get into it. Let's hope this will be a great experience for all who want/are able to participate!

Best regards from Europe,
Marc

P.S.: Feel free to add me, I'm still terrible at MTGO compared to real life Magic, but I need to get some training in! Same user name as here...

P.P.S.: I find it funny that a BUG Deathrite Deck is more expensive than a Blue Control Deck ... those crazy prices.

[policehq]

There is some volatility in prices on MTGO right now for non-redeemable cards (basically, older ones). Daily Events have been suspended until further notice to repair the server, so prices dropped. They may be going back up, but I think prices will continue downward until everything is fixed. Just in case anyone was considering investing in...

[dangerlinto]

I just realized I never posted this here - it's probably relevant to anyone who wants to look up how much their Vintage decks currently cost online:

http://puremtgo.com/articles/price-vintage-part-2

The meaty data is in the table in the middle of the article.

Fantastic article.  Please send this to Wizards folks, as many as you can.  

Thank muchly, Steve.  I've already sent it to the people who would be interested in the info.

There is some volatility in prices on MTGO right now for non-redeemable cards (basically, older ones). Daily Events have been suspended until further notice to repair the server, so prices dropped. They may be going back up, but I think prices will continue downward until everything is fixed. Just in case anyone was considering investing in...

It's unlikely you'll see a lot of prices on the things needed for Vintage drop.  Most of the drop has been in Standard cards, which at the moment isn't where a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of card value is.

If the outage lasts into next year - through a Modern Season, say - you might see a drop in modern prices which can substantially help a Vintage enthusiast's wallet.

[Soly]

There are definite pros and cons in my eyes to MTGO Vintage, and in the end it comes down to exactly how WOTC decides to distribute the Power.   My guess is it will be more rare than people hope (like the Treasures from Zendikar).

The good news obviously is that more people will play vintage.  This includes my assumption that LSV and Ochoa will stream vintage when they do.  Of course, we also run the chances that someone like myself or Smennen etc jumps onto this and streams vintage for players.   The real question comes with what the metagame will consist of;  will everyone build tier decks, or will a lot of players build casual decks just to mess around? 

Of course the opportunities are endless;  I won't go into it in too much detail right now (at work).

[personalbackfire]

   The real question comes with what the metagame will consist of;  will everyone build tier decks, or will a lot of players build casual decks just to mess around? 

Probably a lot of people with build budget decks just to mess around with, while others have the tier decks. This is pretty similar to how other formats play out on MTGO. For example, RUG in legacy costs a ton of money, so I currently have Burn (a budget deck), and Mavrick, a cheaper but competitive deck built. As I play more I hope to accumulate more of the staples, like Force of Will or whatever. I have no reason to think Vintage will be different for at least some people.

I have no idea how much Power will cost online, but if it is comparable to Force (100 each), it will take some time for people to accumulate/buy all of it.

[Smmenen]

So, after some gentleman with a lot of Ms and Ns in his user name pointed out in Philly that MTGO might be a good idea for future Vintage, I've been checking out the platform for about 2 weeks now... and let me tell you, it is so much worse than playing with actual cards (especially vintage cards) for me.

But nevertheless, I must admit that

a) it is good to get any more tournaments & results for our slow moving metagame
b) if that adds only a little support from Wizards' side, good for all of us
c) it got me hooked!

I will be playing Vintage on MTGO as soon as possible, getting my pool apart from the Power ready this month. The idea of having an easy opportunity to play with people all over the world in a competitive way is just too awesome to not get into it. Let's hope this will be a great experience for all who want/are able to participate!

Best regards from Europe,
Marc

P.S.: Feel free to add me, I'm still terrible at MTGO compared to real life Magic, but I need to get some training in! Same user name as here...

P.P.S.: I find it funny that a BUG Deathrite Deck is more expensive than a Blue Control Deck ... those crazy prices.

I find the MTGO platform very difficult to use, but I plan to get much better with it.  I find myself running out of time almost every time I use it.  I don't think it's actually feasible to play full complete games without mastery of the various shortcuts for moving between phases. 

I'm glad your buying in   Maybe we'll play some games next summer

[yugular]

Is there already a vintage clan in mtgo? Anyone knows?

[dangerlinto]

Is there already a vintage clan in mtgo? Anyone knows?

Speak to Magic Eternal

You can find their clan on a lot - Abstrakt66 is the clan leader, and the person you want to speak to about joining.

There are some others though I'm not sure about their total devotion to Eternal play.  Magic Eternal is by far the largest though.

[Montolio]

So, after some gentleman with a lot of Ms and Ns in his user name pointed out in Philly that MTGO might be a good idea for future Vintage, I've been checking out the platform for about 2 weeks now... and let me tell you, it is so much worse than playing with actual cards (especially vintage cards) for me.

But nevertheless, I must admit that

a) it is good to get any more tournaments & results for our slow moving metagame
b) if that adds only a little support from Wizards' side, good for all of us
c) it got me hooked!

I will be playing Vintage on MTGO as soon as possible, getting my pool apart from the Power ready this month. The idea of having an easy opportunity to play with people all over the world in a competitive way is just too awesome to not get into it. Let's hope this will be a great experience for all who want/are able to participate!

Best regards from Europe,
Marc

P.S.: Feel free to add me, I'm still terrible at MTGO compared to real life Magic, but I need to get some training in! Same user name as here...

P.P.S.: I find it funny that a BUG Deathrite Deck is more expensive than a Blue Control Deck ... those crazy prices.

I am part of Clan Magic Eternal (CME) on modo and we are the staunchest of existing Vintage enthusiasts online. We are all super stoked to get power and have been waiting for years. If you want to have some games of magic to help get used to the software or just some competitive games give me a shout online. We typically play Classic as it is as close to Vintage as we have right now. My mtgo tag is Montolio.

[Smmenen]

Vintage Masters is being previewed on Daily mtg this week with some sweet Vintage content!  Also, they are spoiling set cards!  Dual lands are being reprinted: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/vintagemasters/cig

[bactgudz]

Vintage Masters is being previewed on Daily mtg this week with some sweet Vintage content!  Also, they are spoiling set cards!  Dual lands are being reprinted: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/vintagemasters/cig

The set has 105 rares, 30 mythics, and 9 specials (about twice as rare as mythics)...so it is huge.  Looks like they just threw the book at it and put most of the staples they could think of in there.

[JarofFortune]

The hypocrisy of Wizards is astounding here. They claim that they want to put copies of power into the market, and yet they give it a special rarity where you open one every 53 packs. That means a specific power 9 is opened only once every 477 packs(If they are printed evenly). I don't use MODO, but making the Power 9 unnecessarily expensive does not sound like it will make the format accessible, even if the other expensive staples are reprinted.

Regardless, the set looks sweet. I have a friend who uses Magic Online, so I will hopefully get to draft this set once or twice with him.

[bactgudz]

The hypocrisy of Wizards is astounding here. They claim that they want to put copies of power into the market, and yet they give it a special rarity where you open one every 53 packs. That means a specific power 9 is opened only once every 477 packs(If they are printed evenly). I don't use MODO, but making the Power 9 unnecessarily expensive does not sound like it will make the format accessible, even if the other expensive staples are reprinted.

Regardless, the set looks sweet. I have a friend who uses Magic Online, so I will hopefully get to draft this set once or twice with him.

I don't think it will be that expensive with all the high profile stuff in this set.  Even from cracking, for 3339 on average, you'll get 4 of each of 105 rares, 2 of each of 30 mythic, 1 of each power, and 468 foils...we already know a playset of duals is included; from the comment Turian made, you'll likely be getting literally every high profile vintage card in playsets+extras.  Drafting injects open packs into the system at about 78% of the cost if they charge 6 tix+3 packs to enter which was the modern master's price, and it may be cheaper than that. $2600 primary market price for more than a complete playset of everything vintage online would be an absolute bargain.  The secondary market price will be lower holistically, as it always is.


This is not going to be some set where you have 9 super rare money cards and chaff...its going to be a set with 60-80+ high profile cards to spread the cost around. I mean, it is already juicier than modern masters with about a 10% chance of cracking a dual and a 2% chance of p9.

[Thecheese]

I hope wasteland, port and fow are in it

[KrauserKrauser]

I hope Wasteland is printed at Uncommon and LED, Port and City of Tratiors at Rare.  That should help significantly.  It would be great if they ignored the rare slot when factoring in the limited experience and just printed the high dollar cards to make the format accessible and spread some love to Legacy.

I doubt they will print Workshop or Bazaar as they require a significant number of support cards, many at rare, so those might be interesting speculation targets.

[Klep]

Knowing now that duals are in the set, I expect I'll be dropping a fair amount of money on it and probably getting the power in singles.  Still, I want to know that other Vintage staples (most importantly Force of Will) are in the set, but I imagine spoiler season will answer a lot of those questions.  One advantage of the set being digital is that I don't have to pre-order boxes to ensure that I get them.

[Thecheese]

30 mythics..... Seems like a lot to me. Is this where wasteland, force of will, and any other high dollar card is going to printed at

[Hrishi]

It's worth noting that the EV of these packs are currently extremely high. Just the presence of duals in the set is enough to do it, and we don't even know what other rares/mythics are going to go in.

[KrauserKrauser]

Well the presence of Dack Fayden and the new Resto 2.0 might hint at many of the Conspiracy cards coming in to fill some of the rare and mythic spots.

I can't really say that I am much of a fan of that idea as I would rather have more slots dedicated to reprinting format staples.

Hopefully they use the Mythic rarity for the cards that are currently fairly reasonably priced like Time Vault, Workshop, Bazaar and Drain and not in extreme need of a reprint.  That should help prevent them from skyrocketing as the only non-reprinted format staples.

Building a balanced limited format will be interesting for them to attempt as the format leans blue and brown and the reprints may as well.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I can't really say that I am much of a fan of that idea as I would rather have more slots dedicated to reprinting format staples.

Raising the EV of a pack decreases the price of a given staple. Effective cost of pack = sum(price of each card*odds of pulling it)

So:
Price of a given card = (Effective cost of pack - sum(price of all other cards*odds of pulling them)/(odds of pulling the given card)

In other words: the more Dack costs, the less Lotus costs. That's why Wizards has been decreasing the density of multi-format hits while making them stand out more from the set powerwise. A few expensive staples can drive people to open packs even when most of the set is garbage. See: True-name Nemesis. Because of him, Strategic Planning now costs almost nothing.

[gkraigher]

[commented edited and removed because I was wrong]