[Premium Article] Pitch Burning Tendrils, Other Brews, and 3 Tournament Reports

[personalbackfire]

The free update was a nice surprise to find in my inbox, thanks guys! I got to play the deck yesterday and it is the most fun I've had playing vintage since TPS was viable. The deck seemed very powerful. I like how you have multiple paths to victories. The only thing I don't really like about the deck currently is the mana base, though I'm not sure how you get around that with needing to reliably cast 4 different colors. Thanks again for the article, the play by play analysis in the tournament reports section was the most helpful for me. I'm looking forward to playing this in a tournament later the month.

[Smmenen]

Ah, that's the critical thing I wasn't considering, I guess, to put more emphasis on how the draw 7 will affect your opponent than yourself (and to be confident enough in the deck to provide another bomb to replace the one you wheeled/twistered/jar'd away).

There are other factors besides just that one, but that is always an important consideration in my mind.   Because draw7s are symmetrical, you need to be thinking about how they'll affect your opponent, and what are the relative risks for you if you don't win.  See my tournanent update from the latest Eudemonia, where I talk about this in the TPS matchup. 

In the example I just gave, I would actually probably lead with Ritual, Necro, because if you lead with Wheel, and it resolves, you lose the Necro.   Also, when I say "efficiency," I also refer to the fact that some spells have critical costs.  So, for example, if you have the choice between a T1 Draw7 or a Mind's Desire, for, say 3-4, you often want to play the Desire simply because playing the Wheel will prevent you from casting the Desire for any relevant amount.   Considerations like this matter a lot. 

[Grand Inquisitor]

Considerations like this matter a lot. 

Are there other considerations besides: play a non-draw7 before playing the draw7?

I'm guessing maybe if you suspect Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm and they're tapped out, then you'd play a draw7 first?

[Soly]

I usually will play the draw 7 to draw out the counterspell for a more relevant threat, depending on the situation.

My thought usually is like this:  If they let the draw 7 resolve, there's a very high chance that my 7 will be able to push through theirs and kill them.  If they don't let it resolve, we're still at parody, which I will then break with my bomb.

[Smmenen]

Considerations like this matter a lot.  

Are there other considerations besides: play a non-draw7 before playing the draw7?

Yes, too many for me to list here, except the three others already noted (baiting, risks and efficient usage).  To wit:

sequencing them in the order so that the most important of them can resolve, but also sequencing them in the order that permits me to play them in an efficient manner.  This is a very complicated set of considerations.

when I say "efficiency," I also refer to the fact that some spells have critical costs.

you need to be thinking about how they'll affect your opponent, and what are the relative risks for you if you don't win. 

To that list could be added considerations such as how to interface with the opponent's projected/likely set of countermagic.

[Phele]

Hey Stephen!

Do you think, Bargain is still optimal in this deck? I have found it blocking my hand very often, without being able to cast it or coming up after an draw-7 or an oathed Griselbrand. With the added counter protection and the cut of mana sources it felt much smoother to concentrate on protecting your turn two bomb which in most cases has to be something lower costed like Oath or the draw-7s. It works with Wish for Show and Tell but this doesn't seem to be an optimal play either, more a back-up-plan. Couldn't Bargain be cut for something to smooth out your draws (Preordain, Probe, Imperial Seal, Demonic Consultation ...)?

[Grand Inquisitor]

critical costs

Are there examples of this besides storm cards?  Does this also mean things like 'artifact for tinker', 'life for necro', 'yard for ywill' or 'creature for oath'...is there anything else?

[Smmenen]

critical costs

Are there examples of this besides storm cards?  Does this also mean things like 'artifact for tinker', 'life for necro', 'yard for ywill' or 'creature for oath'...is there anything else?

Many examples.  Here is one:

Suppose your opening hand is:

Mox Jet, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, Wheel of Fortune, Yawgmoth's Bargain,

From a strictly sequencing perspective, you may want to bait with Wheel to draw out the Force to let Bargain resolve, with Jet, Ritual, Wheel.  But that would prevent you from playing Bargain on turn 2, since you've  used the Ritual.   So, while suboptimal from a sequencing perspective, the costs require you to play Bargain first, with Wheel as a backup plan.

That's the kind of example I had in mind when describing "critical costs."   

[personalbackfire]

@smmenen
What do you think of Mind's Desire in this deck?

I have found the Draw 7s to be underwhelming so was thinking of cutting either the Windfall in the maindeck and moving it to the sb for Desire or cutting the Diminishing Returns from the sb and adding Mind's Desire there.

[Smmenen]

I think I talked about that in the article.  The only thing I'd add is that, if you do wish to run Desire, I would play it maindeck rather in than in the sideboard.  If you are Wishing for Desire, your opponent's are going to have opportunities to prevent you from playing it in other ways, like countering your mana.  Desire is maindeckable, it just suffers from problems that I've already mentioned.  

I'm a big fan of Windfall for reasons I've also written about.  It's one of the best draw7s against Workshops.

EDIT: If I were to add cards to this deck, the first card I would put back in is LED, as I noted before.  That boosts both the Wishes and the Draw7s.  

But, you should make changes you are comfortable with, if it works better for you.  Varying operational mechanics may alter relative card values.  Draw7s are very tricky to time well, and if you aren't very comfortable with them they can be harmful.  

[personalbackfire]

Yea, I tested Desire in the board tonight for a little before switching it to the main for the reasons you stated. I'm not its biggest fan in this deck currently. It was useful in one game out of about 20 I played with it. I like the idea of adding LED, though I really wouldn't want to skimp on the number of blue cards. I'm already -1 blue card from your 3 misstep list since I added a 12th land.

I might try the Gifts Ungiven in the main as Soly suggested.

[Smmenen]

Yea, I tested Desire in the board tonight for a little before switching it to the main for the reasons you stated. I'm not its biggest fan in this deck currently. It was useful in one game out of about 20 I played with it. I like the idea of adding LED, though I really wouldn't want to skimp on the number of blue cards. I'm already -1 blue card from your 3 misstep list since I added a 12th land.

I would play Mox Opal over a 12th land.   If I was going to play Desire, I would probably cut the Mystical maindeck.  LED is really insane here.  It's bonkers once you Oath up Grisel, and it's amazing with Draw7s, Bargain, and Burning Wish.

[hashswag]

I find myself really paranoid about using LED and having my Draw7 countered. Any rules about when to crack it and when not to (besides if your Draw7 is the last bomb in your hand)?

[Tammit67]

I find myself really paranoid about using LED and having my Draw7 countered. Any rules about when to crack it and when not to (besides if your Draw7 is the last bomb in your hand)?

Sometimes you just have to all in them and hope they don't have it.

If you can afford not to crack it, don't. Else do. I'm not really sure what kind of rules you are looking for here.

[Smmenen]

I find myself really paranoid about using LED and having my Draw7 countered. Any rules about when to crack it and when not to (besides if your Draw7 is the last bomb in your hand)?

In general, don't use LED unless it's paired with the last threat in your hand or unless you already have a threat in play, like Jar or Bargain.  Then go for it. 

[hashswag]

I find myself really paranoid about using LED and having my Draw7 countered. Any rules about when to crack it and when not to (besides if your Draw7 is the last bomb in your hand)?

In general, don't use LED unless it's paired with the last threat in your hand or unless you already have a threat in play, like Jar or Bargain.  Then go for it. 

Cheers. That's how I'd been using it, but I wasn't sure if I was playing too conservatively and not getting full value out of it.

[Smmenen]

I find myself really paranoid about using LED and having my Draw7 countered. Any rules about when to crack it and when not to (besides if your Draw7 is the last bomb in your hand)?

In general, don't use LED unless it's paired with the last threat in your hand or unless you already have a threat in play, like Jar or Bargain.  Then go for it. 

Cheers. That's how I'd been using it, but I wasn't sure if I was playing too conservatively and not getting full value out of it.

The main exception is if you have cards like Bargain or Griselbrand in play, it doesn't matter if you are discarding cards in hand, you should go ahead and use LED before drawing cards. 

Example:

If I played turn 1 Oath and LED, and I oath up Griselbrand, I will likely be willing to use the LED immediately and trigger Griselbrand despite discarding a few cards from hand that I don't really need to win here.  Yo don't want to play a draw7 just to play  it, if you are about to draw 14 cards off Griselbrand or Bargain. 

[tribet]

and don't forget that LED works like a charm paired with YawgWin. Replay whatever you discarded and crack LED again.

[Smmenen]

and don't forget that LED works like a charm paired with YawgWin. Replay whatever you discarded and crack LED again.

Yes, I played LED in some versions of this for that reason.  I go back and forth between LED and 3rd Misstep.  I also reported testing Mox opal in that spot extensively in this article.  Kevin Cron was privvy to my debate, and top 8ed with this deck using LED this weekend at the Team Serious open. 

[WhiteLotus]

and don't forget that LED works like a charm paired with YawgWin. Replay whatever you discarded and crack LED again.

Yes, I played LED in some versions of this for that reason.  I go back and forth between LED and 3rd Misstep.  I also reported testing Mox opal in that spot extensively in this article.  Kevin Cron was privvy to my debate, and top 8ed with this deck using LED this weekend at the Team Serious open. 

Don't you find 26 mana sources to be a bit short when you can't go for the Oath plan ? I Mean when oath works it's pretty easy to combo out with your graveyard full and Griselbrand feeding you cards. But I find that when you have to go the Draw 7 way, a good percentage of the time, you just end up casting oath of druids with the new hand because you don't have enough mana, it plays very differently from the previous build.
After playing the list a bit, I took out the Jar and Tinker to fit in a 3rd gemstone mine and Mind's desire, to have more mana while trying to avoid loosing Blue count for Pitch counters, I really miss the Jar though, but I couldn't find another way to make it work.
Also against workshops, I put Rebuilds in the side, because I found that Chalice on 2 was really bad for the list especially when they have another one at 1.

Other than that the deck is really awesome and flexible, props for the work you put into it so that we could all have some good fun.

[Smmenen]

I don't find 26 to be too few mana sources at all.  First of all, most of the mana sources in here are accelerants and can be dropped after a Draw7 and used immediately.   Secondly, that's yet another reason to use cards like LED, which can be fantastic with Draw7s, when used with Burning Wish to cast Yawg Will.

Third, if I was going to add more mana, it wouldn't be a 3rd gemstone mine, which I think is unnecessary and bad, but it would be Mox Opal.  

Fourth, you can bring in Ancient Tombs post board for more lands.

Finally, Hurkyl's Recalls can also double as mana acellerants, like they used to be back in 1999.

Mind's Desire is not very good.  Jar is important as a play that evades cards like Flusterstorm, and is the best Draw7s for its asymmetry and timing precision.  

The answer to Chalice @ 2 is one of the four Nature's Claims/Chain of Vapor/Shat Spree

Thanks for the complements.  I have put alot of work into this, and it's been a labor of love ever since they unrestricted Burning Wish.  It's been so much fun to play. 

[Soly]

if I was going to add more mana, it wouldn't be a 3rd gemstone mine, which I think is unnecessary and bad, but it would be Mox Opal.  

The answer to Chalice @ 2 is one of the four Nature's Claims/Chain of Vapor/Shat Spree

I think saying Gemstone Mine #3 is bad is really stretching it; I feel like this really depends on your expected Metagame.  If I am expecting a lot of wastelands and some Null Rod pressence, I wouldn't think twice about adding the 3rd Gemstone mine.

You and I will also always disagree on this point, but I feel that not having a real maindeck answer for Chalice @ 2 is really weak.  The minute your workshop player knows what you're playing, their Snap-keep hand should involve a Turn 1 Chalice @ 2.  I always include a Rebuild in all of my combo decks for this reason.

[WhiteLotus]

I Really can't shake off the feeling of mana problems with 26, I'd feel more comfortable with adding at least 1 and possibly 2.
Usually it's one of my favorite storm enablers, but I feel like Bargain is really at it's weakest in this deck. The threat density is already over the top especially with pitch counter back up, so I'm almost never using the Bargain as Yawgmoth intended. and I don't think I've wished a single time for Show and tell to put it into play.

So I'm now using a "double card" experiment with Bargain and Mox opal, and it seems from a few games that it's going to be an Opal most of the time.

[Smmenen]

I dusted this off and played this deck to a 5-2 record at the Waterbury this weekend, finishing in the top 16.

Although I thought that Delver was still an excellent choice (at least, the versions I was pushing -- with 4 Preordain, Pyromancers, etc -- not the versions from last year or before with Goyf), I was concerned that the metagame had subtly been adjusting to it, and it's advantage over the field was not as pronounced as at the NYSE.  I was also concerned by the alarming and growing presence of UW control strategies online, which often used annoying cards like Batterskull, Restoration Angel, Auriok Salvagers, or Thalias, backed up by cards like Cavern.  I didn't want to play Delver against UW all day. I felt that Oath with a strong anti-Cage plan would be a really good metagame choice for a field heavy in UW, which is what I expected.   I also expected a ton of Shops, given how well Shop had performed at the NYSE, and I was not wrong on that count either.

Finally, this decks worst matchup, BUG (because it combines Abrupt Decay, Wasteland, Null Rod, and max countermagic), seemed to have hit a nadir because of the rise of Delver strategies.   I felt like this was perfectly positioned with alot of mid-rangy control decks and Delver decks.

I made just three changes:

1) I cut the Chain of Vapor/3rd Nature's Claim in the sideboard for a Void Snare, which was really good.  

2) I cut the Mystical Tutor for a 3rd Misdirection to help resolve early Oath and Restricted cards more reliably.  

3) I incorporated Mana Confluence over 3 cities and 1 Gemstone.  I ran 1 City, 1 Gemstone, 4 Mana Confluence, 4 Orchard, and 1 Tolarian maindeck.  The single Gemstone Mine was really good.  I use it tactically to replay it some times for an additional land draw with Will.  With 5 Cities, Gemstone is perfect as a one-of.  Also, it's important to note that City of Brass is in some circumstances better than Mana Confluence.  You can stack the trigger from Tendrils, and resolve the storm Tendrils copies before the city's damage, to win the game at 1 life by using City. You can't do with Mana Confluence.

My two losses were:

1) I ran into the Will Magrann buzzsaw.  The man was on a tear all day, and I'm not surprised he won the tournament.  I was the only player in the tournament that took a game from Will in the swiss.    

In the first game, I mulliganed to a hand of six, that was pretty bad, but barely keepable: Oath, Misdirection, Misdirection, Mental Misstep, Mana Confluence, Mana Crypt.  He won the die roll, and played Mox, Chalice @0, and then Sol Ring, which I missteped, and Mutavault.  

Because he was mana screwed, I was able to play the Oath AND Orchard, but he immediately Wastelanded my Orchard, and Dismembered the token, so I couldn't Oath, and it wasn't a turn that he had activated Mutavault, so I wasn't able to Misdirect it.   He got a 2nd Mutavault down, and was attaking for 3-4 per turn, and I died.  

In the second game, I got him with Laboratory Maniac, although I could have comboed out with Hurkyl's + Ancient Tomb at any time.

In the third game, I had a strong hand, but he went: T1: Mox, Mox, Sphere, Workshop, Thorn.  T2: Thorn, T3: Lodestone Golem.  

I needed Ancient Tomb to win that game, and although I had 3 lands, and a Mox, and an Oath, I was never close to being able to cast it.  If I had Ancient Tomb, I could have broken out of his lock.  Workshops are this decks probably strongest statistical matchup because i have 4 Hurkyl's, 3 Nature's Claims, 1 Shat Spree, and Void Snare, and 4 Oaths and 3 Ancient Tombs to cast all of those. Will was just destined to win this one.

2) I got paired against Taylor, who also made top 8, and was playing the only deck I didn't want to face- BUG.  This was my worst matchup of the day.  It was a one-sided slaughter.  The third Misdirection wasn't relevant in these two games.

All in all, I thought Oath was really well positioned in the metagame so long as you can beat Cage, which was what my plan was.  This is definitely a deck for folks to play with if they are looking for something strong against Shops.  

[gribdogs]

I still enjoy playing the Burning Long version.  As an aside I also picked up some Void Snares for this deck.  Do you prefer the Pitch version or your original Burning Long one, Steve?

[Smmenen]

Pitch Burning Long/Tendrils is my strong preference. 

[gribdogs]

Well, I took your recommendation and played Pitch Long at the Team Serious event last weekend.  I think it ran exceptionally well, especially for such a mediocre pilot as myself.  I rolled over to a Dredge build in Round 1, and then lost a closely fought 3 game match round 2.  Forgive my memory, but I don't recall the correct deck archetype suffice to say vault/key is still the real deal.  Round 3 the deck finally kicked into gear (or I did) and I was able to win a closely fought 3 game match against UR Delver.  Round 4 I played against a 5c control brew and I got pull out all the fun SB tricks.  Round 5 I managed a win against another unknown deck, but it seemed to SB into MUD prison style so it was really interesting.

I ended up 9th on the breakers, but that's my own fault for being so rusty in Rd1 and 2.  Great deck, I could see playing it more if I have more time to hit the events.  The counter magic really helps the win % for sure and feels like it should've always been there.

Thanks for all the time spent on the deck.  I'm far too busy myself to properly brew competitive Vintage, I only do the fun stuff to play with my friends.