RUW Prison: Next level denial

[Guli]

It has been long since I introcuded a fresh, new design. This one I can best label as 'Teegless Teeg' perhaps. The deck opts to play creatures that have 2 or 3 power and still have a very relevant ability for a vintage environment but dismisses one of the strongest creature ever printed, Gaddock Teeg.

By doing this, it tries to avoid green and focus on more denial threats. In fact, the color that tries to overload the blue archetype that uses all the powerful singletons is mostly white anyway (even with GW Haterator), and in this design, to some degree red. The idea is to put a lot of love bears (to some known as hatebears) in play but these creatures do have a pushed casting cost, or better we try to design in such a way that it feels and plays like that for the opponent (and for us). So they do more damage in a faster rate and this makes up for the loss of exalted (noble and pridemage). It trades green for red for more answers to Tinker, Moxes, BUG manabases and Workshop decks. The blue in the deck is for the power, it makes the difference in the long run. Getting a time walk from time to time or an ancestral recall, does change games. There are also a couple of clones in there to give more out to big creatures and things like Crucible.

When playing this prison deck, the amount of pressure is just about enough to make up for the lack of a draw engine. This is not an easy thing to accomplish.

The creatures:

4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Dryad Militant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Glowrider
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Phyrexian Metamorph



This is a highly disruptive but also flexible creature package. Revokers and Metamorph with welder backup allows the pilot to do all kinds of interesting tricks. While being flexible, they can also be extremely brutal when you are targeting the opponent's mana sources. A Thalia in play with a Glowrider and another Glowrider (cloned by metamorph) with a Revoker on that mox they got in play is simply outrageous. There are a lot of board positions possible with similar pressure because there is a Stony and a Gorilla Shaman to do the same thing that Revoker would do in those kinds of lines. Also there are Chalice and Thorns to achieve these lock positions.



2 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Stony Silence
1 Gorilla Shaman

The nice thing about the deck is the curve. You get to play turn 1 Dryad Millitant and turn 2 Thalia or Spirit. You get a turn 1 Chalice and turn 1 Thalia at same time. It is possible to turn 1 Thorn, then follow it up with Glowrider and then Thalia and then a metamorph. These plays are really strong in Vintage against many decks. The Dryad and Spirit are fairly new creatures that I am using in this build. I like how Dryad has impact on Deathrite Shaman, Snapcaster and Oath of Druids. Imagine you have a Karakas in play, a Dryad Militant and a sphere or something. Oathing up that Griselbrand could mean they are losing key instants and sorceries, and they will not be able to keep Griselbrand in play. Also the extra cards that they draw (if you have Spirit then that is also cut off) can not be effectively used because of the sphere effects. It is a highly disruptive setup (and a cheap one). It can happen that you metamorph a griselbrand and then bounce it with karakas. It can happen that you have Welder in play and weld out that Blightsteel.

To make life hard for Workshop and Tinker there are 2 Goblin Welder in the deck. Goblin Welder makes life hard for blue control as well. Next to Welder I went for 3 Magus of the Moon complemented with a good amount of fetch lands and 3 basic lands in the deck. Not that this deck really needs a lot of islands, the island is still there for if you would want it for the blue power and 2 Metamorph.

2 Goblin Welder
3 Magus of the Moon



Magus of the Moon is that card that is in here for decks like BUG and Workshop/Bazaar. The card just is that another threat that pushes the deck over the top and overloads the opponent. Sometimes they just scoop, sometimes they are disrupted.  Moon effects hit harder versus those decks were your other denial spells would be 'less effective' (but still effective).



Then there are the most solid instants and sorcery spells:

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

The mana base has the 5 strips, even with Magus around, and has a Mikokoro to abuse with the 4 Spirits. Sometimes you even get the chance to activate it without Spirit at end of their turn and it works nice with sphere effects.

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Plateau
2 Karakas
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea



The sideboard is focussed on dredge, a bit of workshop, some oath hate and only 1 pure anti blue card because the main has a lot anyway. Brimaz and Legionnaire are cards that can be used in match ups where you need to 'push' through. Because the creatures in the main deck are not really 'fat', we don't want a single Tarmogoyf to stall our board too much in game 2 and game 3.

SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 War Priest of Thune
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
SB: 2 Porcelain Legionnaire

The Ingot Chewers are awsome to clear the way against Workshop, to support our Swords to Plowshares. Surprisingly the pre board match against workshop is good too. It has to do of the fact there are a lot of cheap permanents for wire and smokestack, welder/shaman to lock them, metamorph to copy Crucible (or other targets), chalice and stony which can really hurt them, magus that denies them mana especially under spheres and shuts off manlands. Obviously the 3/1 of spirit helps here. Usually the more aggro mud versions have a hard time against this. If I would have lost more games than I have won, I would have changed the main deck, but right now it does not seem necessary. I can see how a Staff of Nin or a Triskelon can cause a lot of problems against this deck. There is a (singleton) Stony Silence and there are the STP and Welders, but if they catch you off guard, be aware. Phyrexian Revoker can also be a nice card to help out in situations like this, but also to get an out in various other board states. That is why Revokers are in, to close the holes that can be created, to catch some fish that went pass the nets in each match up.

I have already received a lot of positive feedback from the people I test with on cockatrice. I wanted to throw it out in public to give people a decent read and maybe someone would like to take it to an upcoming event. I will pilot this deck on 5 April, and I will do a tournament report which you can then read in this thread.



Here is the list that can be copied in past directly to deck editor of cockatrice so you can start your own test matches immediately:

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Glowrider
2 Goblin Welder
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Gorilla Shaman
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Plateau
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Karakas
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stony Silence
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dryad Militant
2 Arid Mesa
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 War Priest of Thune
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
SB: 2 Porcelain Legionnaire

[msg67183]

It has been long since I introcuded a fresh, new design. This one I can best labeled as 'Teegless Teeg' perhaps. The deck opts to play creatures that have 2 or 3 power and still have a very relevant ability for a vintage environment but dismisses one of the strongest creature ever printed, Gaddock Teeg.

By doing this, it tries to avoid green and focus on more real threats. In fact, the color that tries to overload the blue archetype that uses all the powerful singletons is mostly white anyway (even with GW Haterator), and in this design, to some degree red. The idea is to put a lot of love bears (to some known as hatebears) in play but these creatures do have a pushed casting cost, or better we try to design in such a way that it feels and plays like that for the opponent (and for us). So they do more damage in a faster rate and this makes up for the loss of exalted (noble and pridemage). It trades green for red for more answers to Tinker, Moxes, BUG manabases and Workshop decks. The blue in the deck is for the power, it makes the difference in the long run. Getting a time walk from time to time or an ancestral recall, does change games. There are also a couple of clones in there to give more out to big creatures and things like Crucible.

When playing this prison deck, the amount of pressure is just about enough to make up for the lack of a draw engine. This is not an easy thing to accomplish.

The creatures:

4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Dryad Militant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Glowrider
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Phyrexian Metamorph



This is a highly disruptive but also flexible creature package. Revokers and Metamorph with welder backup allows the pilot to do all kinds of interesting tricks. While being flexible, they can also be extremely brutal when you are targeting the opponent's mana sources. A Thalia in play with a Glowrider and another Glowrider (cloned by metamorph) with a Revoker on that mox they got in play is simply outrageous. There are a lot of board positions possible with similar pressure because there is a Stony and a Gorilla Shaman to do the same thing that Revoker would do in those kinds of lines. Also there are Chalice and Thorns to achieve these lock positions.



2 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Stony Silence
1 Gorilla Shaman

The nice thing about the deck is the curve. You get to play turn 1 Dryad Millitant and turn 2 Thalia or Spirit. You get a turn 1 Chalice and turn 1 Thalia at same time. It is possible to turn 1 Thorn, then follow it up with Glowrider and then Thalia and then a metamorph. These plays are really strong in Vintage against many decks. The Dryad and Spirit are fairly new creatures that I am using in this build. I like how Dryad has impact on Deathrite Shaman, Snapcaster and Oath of Druids. Imagine you have a Karakas in play, a Dryad Militant and a sphere or something. Oathing up that Griselbrand could mean they are losing key instants and sorceries, and they will not be able to keep Griselbrand in play. Also the extra cards that they draw (if you have Spirit then that is also cut off) can not be effectively used because of the sphere effects. It is a highly disruptive setup (and a cheap one). It can happen that you metamorph a griselbrand and then bounce it with karakas. It can happen that you have Welder in play and weld out that Blightsteel.

To make life hard for Workshop and Tinker there are 2 Goblin Welder in the deck. Goblin Welder makes life hard for blue control as well. Next to Welder I went for 3 Magus of the Moon complemented with a good amount of fetch lands and 3 basic lands in the deck. Not that this deck really needs a lot of islands, the island is still there for if you would want it for the blue power and 2 Metamorph.

2 Goblin Welder
3 Magus of the Moon



Magus of the Moon is that card that is in here for decks like BUG and Workshop/Bazaar. The card just is that another threat that pushes the deck over the top and overloads the opponent. Sometimes they just scoop, sometimes they are disrupted.  Moon effects hit harder versus those decks were your other denial spells would be 'less effective' (but still effective).



Then there are the most solid instants and sorcery spells:

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

The mana base has the 5 strips, even with Magus around, and has a Mikokoro to abuse with the 4 Spirits. Sometimes you even get the chance to activate it without Spirit at end of their turn and it works nice with sphere effects.

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Plateau
2 Karakas
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea



The sideboard is focussed on dredge, a bit of workshop, some oath hate and only 1 pure anti blue card because the main has a lot anyway. Brimaz and Legionnaire are cards that can be used in match ups where you need to 'push' through. Because the creatures in the main deck are not really 'fat', we don't want a single Tarmogoyf to stall our board too much in game 2 and game 3.

SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 War Priest of Thune
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
SB: 2 Porcelain Legionnaire

The Ingot Chewers are awsome to clear the way against Workshop, to support our Swords to Plowshares. Surprisingly the pre board match against workshop is good too. It has to do of the fact there are a lot of cheap permanents for wire and smokestack, welder/shaman to lock them, metamorph to copy Crucible (or other targets), chalice and stony which can really hurt them, magus that denies them mana especially under spheres and shuts off manlands. Obviously the 3/1 of spirit helps here. Usually the more aggro mud versions have a hard time against this. If I would have lost more games than I have won, I would have changed the main deck, but right now it does not seem necessary. I can see how a Staff of Nin or a Triskelon can cause a lot of problems against this deck. There is a (singleton) Stony Silence and there are the STP and Welders, but if they catch you off guard, be aware. Phyrexian Revoker can also be a nice card to help out in situations like this, but also to get an out in various other board states. That is why Revokers are in, to close the holes that can be created, to catch some fish that went pass the nets in each match up.

I have already received a lot of positive feedback from the people I test with on cockatrice. I wanted to throw it out in public to give people a decent read and maybe someone would like to take it to an upcoming event. I will pilot this deck on 5 April, and I will do a tournament report which you can then read in this thread.



Here is the list that can be copied in past directly to deck editor of cockatrice so you can start your own test matches immediately:

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Glowrider
2 Goblin Welder
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Gorilla Shaman
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Plateau
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Karakas
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stony Silence
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dryad Militant
2 Arid Mesa
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 War Priest of Thune
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
SB: 2 Porcelain Legionnaire

So this is the deck you played against me on Cockatrice, very interesting list! Keep up the good work!

[vaughnbros]

I've been playing and tinkering with RW lists since before champs and one of my friends actually placed in the unpowered portion of vintage champs with my list, so I'm definitely intrigued by this list.  Mine has a little bit higher curve with inclusions like Lodestones and Stoneforges, over your some of your lower curve cards, like dryad militants, welders, and mox monkey.

I wonder if the blue splash is really worth it for only ancestral and time walk in the entire 75, especially considering your running magus of the moons.  I think you may enjoy much better mana stability if you were to cut the 2 of them.

I'm also not sure I like chalice of the void without cavern of souls since you cant play it at 1 or 2 without hurting yourself.

Overall its an awesome list though and I'll be trying it out.

[brianpk80]

Great post, Guli.  I've tested against many of Guli's builds and this one gave me the most headaches of all.  I tried switching to Espresso Shop to sneak a game or match from him, but even when I drew constricting hands on the play, he persevered.  The Magus is what puts the deck over the top.  I can have the board under control and be set to combo out and then that guy randomly shows up and it's gg.  Excellent build. 

[Guli]

Blue is always worth it and changes game results. If you own the power, run it. Metamorph is also blue, and there are times you want to pay the full casting cost. I can also imagine more blue going in the deck.

I was thinking on running 1 maindeck Izzet Staticaster. The reason is simple, to hurt those cards that are unaffected by thorn effects, creatures. You can copy an Izzet with Metamorph making it even more hard for creature decks.

[xouman]

I'm up to play magus now, and I'd like to play it along power. And white plays fantastic mana denial now, nice creatures and the powerful swords to plowshares. The more I see the list, the more I like it, but as vaughnbros I'm a bit puzzled about fitting blue here.

How does it perform against BUG or landstill-like decks? I specially have in mind tarmogoyf and sfm/batterskull. however decay seems hard to play under those spheres and wastes! snapcaster also looks worse with those militants.

Isn't welder dead lots of times? I love it, but when could perform hate or provide advantage. Still is great against tezz, mud, tinker...

how about chalice? are you putting it always to 0? chalice at 1 shuts 12 cards,and cotv at 2 shuts 15.

unluckily I lack key cards as karakas and plateaus, so I would had to try it with less white creatures and trying to fit something else, i'm not sure about what (lodestone is too high in the mana curve I'm afraid ). But the list looks wonderful Guli. I can't make any suggestions because it looks really well tunned

[Guli]

I posted the list so interested people can try it. I did do -1 Phyrexian Revoker and +1 Izzet Staticaster but other than that the deck is playing well as it is. The list is already tuned and I wrote a small primer on it and posted it here. Obviously inviting readers to comment and criticize it. I didn't really opened a thread to tune it further if you understand what I mean. But we can do that as well, to solve whatever problems are left.

If you want to play a prison style deck, but don't want Workshop, then this is the deck to play.

Your comments on Dryad Millitant are spot on. It hurts Snapcaster, Y Will, Oath decks, Deathrite Shaman and Dredge a lot. What it also does is add to the clock. What I tried to do with this list is to put Dryad and Spirit in the spotlight and support these cheap and effective bears that add a lot to the clock. Adding 2 power to the clock for 1 mana and 3 power to the clock for 2 mana is nice, especially if you are simultaneously disrupting your opponents graveyard and draw abilities.

My biggest concern right now is that I do get moments were I am being stalled by opposing creatures that have no real value after they have done their thing. Trinket Mage, Snapcaster etc... you don't want to trade your Spirit there to one of these, and you also don't want to use a Swords to Plowshares to clear the way. So I added an Izzet for this reason and there is Brimaz and Legionnaire in the sideboard. I also think that you can slow play it in these match ups anyway. Sphere the board, take out artifact mana, get your basics, Magus Moon them. Maybe Stun Sniper could be used here to work under spheres and control the board.

Goblin Welder brings back Metamorph, Thorn, Chalice and Revoker. Post board it can also bring back Crypts. I like 2 Welder and 1 Gorilla Shaman in the deck. They are always useful and sometimes critical against certain decks.

There are only 2 Chalice in the deck, and you almost always want to set it at 0. Some decks are hurt tremendously against a Chalice 1, then you go for it. You can't draw more than 2 Chalice, so yea, when you set it to something other than 0, then you probably have a good reason.

[Guli]

For those who don't like the Magus Moon approach I have worked on another way to punish decks that are low on basics or run only non basics. It is the good old Leonon Arbiter and Ghost Quarter combo. I also think that the Phyrexian Metamorph should go up to 4 with 3 in main deck and 1 in Sideboard. Having access to your own Crucibles by copying them is great if you can Ingot their Crucible afterwards. Bare in mind that you are on 9 strip effects. You can quickly destroy their mana base and wipe away whatever that is left over on the board with additional removal for creatures and artifacts.

Having Leonin Arbiter also means that there will be more tax on the blue mage. For those who played with this card, they know that you can do a well timed armagedon on them. You don't have to constantly waste and strip, you can lay down some sphere and arbiter, and they builld up wastelands/quarters to blow them up when the time is right and deal with the remaining threats.

There is a catch though with this, I rather not use fetchlands in this case and rely on my own Quarters to fetch up any required basic lands.

I also ended up moving some of the cards that disrupt blue to the sideboard, which is logical because Arbiter is taking up those slots.

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Plateau
2 Tundra
2 Karakas
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Stun Sniper
1 Mangara of Corondor

4 Dryad Militant
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Glowrider
3 Leonin Arbiter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

2 Chalice of the Void
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Stony Silence
2 Goblin Welder

SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Porcelain Legionnaire
SB: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Leonin Arbiter
SB: 1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker

Enjoy

[rikimaru75]

Have you considered Null Rod over Stony Silence in order to work with Welder or is Stony Silence just strictly better?

Has there been any thought to using archetype of courage at all as a means to push through snapcaster, trinket mage, etc?

[Guli]

I think that is a really good idea, and I think it is main deck material, if you can stick that card in against MUD you put yourself in a confortable position.

Null Rod is better with Welders if they run destroy effects, but Null Rod also gets bounced a bit easier due to Hurkly's Recall. Stony seems a bit more resilient to me but maybe people already adapted to Oath, and Stony takes splash damage. Rod might be better in that case.

[xouman]

I think I prefer magus approach, unless he punishes your manabase too hard. Wastes help in the medium and and long game, but opponent could play key spells with them, as lotus petals. Magus applies less pressure to the total mana, but is harder against secondary colors (or event primary if you are lucky).

Playing this deck and welders, what do you think about Sanctum Plowbeast? It's a bad card indeed, but this is probably the best deck for it. You are not playing it but in strange cases, but under a moon effect you can search any land you need. The best use thought is with a welder in play, because you can answer to a golem attack (or most other creatures) cycling beast and weld it in. Just an idea.

And about manabase, you play 11 "colored" lands + 3 moxen. 10 white sources all along. Are they enough or do you have to mulligan quite hands? I'm quite bad at mulligans (because I usually don't know my own decks) and get punished by some weird mana hands.

[rikimaru75]

I played this deck at my local Vintage event.

The decision tree for this deck is quite complex and very unforgiving.

It was some good fun for everyone though. Probably one of the best parts was having people pick up the cards and read them closely (like Brimaz, King of Oreskos).

[xouman]

I have often thought about playing Gitaxian Probe in one of those decks, just to help those decisions. It would be even more useful if you don't have any idea about what are you facing, but even when you know what are they playing, knowing they exact cards (lands in hand, casting costs, answers...). It's a pity that probe is quite bad with thalia and SoTL. However, with revokers and meddling mages is awesome.

[JarofFortune]

I have often thought about playing Gitaxian Probe in one of those decks, just to help those decisions. It would be even more useful if you don't have any idea about what are you facing, but even when you know what are they playing, knowing they exact cards (lands in hand, casting costs, answers...). It's a pity that probe is quite bad with thalia and SoTL. However, with revokers and meddling mages is awesome.

    Could Telepathy be a good choice in that slot? I don't know, thats just what naturally came to me after you said you were worried about probe's interaction with SoTL. Its plus side is that it has a permanent effect.

[xouman]

Telepathy has advantages indeed, but has two main flaws compared to Gitaxian probe:
-You have to spend mana in it, losing T1 drop.
-It's card disadvantage.

I'm thinking and outside vendillion clicque , that costs 3 mana and helps little in the initial turns, I cannot think of any better card than probe. Well, you can always add black for duress/tgz, but that's another color and loses a bit of the "all creature" commitement.

I'm pretty sure Guli is far better player than me and does not have to "cheat" with probe to optimize his plays.

[rikimaru75]

While I was playing this deck yesterday, a lot of it comes down to playing which bear at the right time.

Take for example the hand I had in a game on 3/29.

Arid Mesa
Flooded Strand
Gorilla Shaman
Time Walk
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Dryad Militant
Phyrexian Metamorph

You win the die roll and decide to play first.

Against an unknown opponent, what is the opening play? Is this hand keepable?

[JarofFortune]

While I was playing this deck yesterday, a lot of it comes down to playing which bear at the right time.

Take for example the hand I had in a game on 3/29.

Arid Mesa
Flooded Strand
Gorilla Shaman
Time Walk
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Dryad Militant
Phyrexian Metamorph

You win the die roll and decide to play first.

Against an unknown opponent, what is the opening play? Is this hand keepable?

You'll mostly have to rely on educated guesses. This hand is definitely keepable vs unknown, because it has early pressure and can disrupt them from multiple angles. With this hand, I would lead with turn 1 militant. This is because it is an aggressive start that will likely bait out a misstep if the opponent has one. This is important because you want them to overextend into your gorilla Shaman. The rest depends on what is topdecked. If you draw a land, for example, I would just play spirit, and wait on the mox monkey until at least the next turn, so I can have the mana to destroy at least 2 artifacts, or use metamorph on their threat, etc. I like saving time walk for as long as possible to get maximum value out of it. It is hard to tell what your later decisions will be, because it really comes down to what you top deck, and what information the opponent gives you.

[xouman]

I would play the hand in the same way. But let's go into detail.

-Which land should I play? I want a plains, in case he is playing wastes (2 cards are white). Then we have a blue spell and a red one. Which fetch should I play then? In the original manabase there are not basic mountains, so I'd play arid mesa into plains into driad militant, and pass.

-Second turn, it would depend on what have I seen. If there is a mox, i'd go fo gorilla shaman. You don't want a tinker/golem/any expensive spell on t2, even less without swords (althought you have metamorph). If there are no moxen, flooded into volcanic into spirit, unless you suspect he/she is on wastes; then I'd probably fetch for the basic island and keep gorilla in hand. We still have 4 fetchlands, 2 plateaus, 1 volcanic and mox ruby to get a red source (8 cards from the unknown 51)

There are variants, of course. Against a resolved T1 oath, I doubt between walk and spirit. Probably walk, praying for a stp in the next draw, as a backup plan for metamorph.

Against MUD, I'd like to play early walk also, using it as a explore. Giving time to MUD could mean 3 quick spheres, and walk is dead until late game. And I'd probably go for basic plains and basic island over volcanic, at least until I drew a third land.

[Guli]

Arid Mesa > Plains > Dryad (easy)

Then play time walk and see what you topdeck and what you have seen of opponent. Then decide.

I have added some important tech in the sideboard due to the landstill and oath match up. I have also done something about the 'pushing through' problem, which is basically a problem of evasion.




I believe these two creatures give us the big body and impact we desire when there are creatures on the other side of the table. There is this plan of Restoration Angel on Metamorph when you feel like you want to finish off the game in a fast manner. You can turn each Metamorph into a 3/4 flyer.

Brian has also reminded me that 3 Wasteland (and the 4th in the sideboard) has been working nicely for the decks that top 8 these days. And with Magus of the Moon 3x in our deck, there is no big need for the full playset in the main deck.

The landstill match up is very weak. I know this by just looking at the lists due to my vast experience in the match up playing some of the best landstill pilots. And I know for a fact that there is at least 1 landstill in my own meta and that the deck does show up, even if it isn't in large numbers. I solved this problematic match up with the follow sideboard plans:



This allows us to play the slow and long game against them. Usually they are holding a lot of removal and use them on your initial threats. The threats we play are strong enough to make them commit a lot recources, but we do need a plan against standstill into more removal and Jace / Crucible (metamorph is strong versus Crucible). The plan after a standstill is quite simple. Just hold your Cavern in hand, and keep dropping lands. Do not use your wastelands on anything other than mishra's factory. Both sides will keep dropping lands and will want to avoid cracking the standstill. Eventually we will have more than 5 mana and can make a first break attempt. You do this with either end of turn with a Restoration Angel, making them discard some of the cards they draw from standstill. Or you have a Sigarda and you make sure their Mindbreak Trap is uncastable (here you can waste volcanic island if it will prevent a trap). You name Angel with Cavern and lay down the Sigarda. Best case scenario is that you also have a Karakas, in case they do have some surprise, but usually the Sigarda is just too strong and will give you the win.

Then the second plan with Cavern of Souls. We want our War Priest to be uncounterable against Oath of Druids. Note that Magus Moon is a Human as well, and an uncounterable Magus can seal games as well. I think 2 Cavern of Souls in the 75 is well worth it. What I did is 3 Wasteland 1 Cavern in main deck, and 1 Wasteland and 1 Cavern in the sideboard.



I moved Izzet Staticaster to the sideboard, it is still a card that you want somewhere.

Phyrexian Metamorph is an absurdly good card in this deck. I strongly suggest using 3x main deck. It copies War Priest in case the Oath has double Oath. It negates Crucible, it copies Griselbrand. It can become 3/4 flying in the endgame as I mentioned. Works great with Welder, plenty of own targets too.

Here is my the list that I would have taken to the tourney (We were driving to the event and had to turn back because the TO's messed up the hour/date on their sites and did not want to wait 40 minutes):

1 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
1 Island
2 Plains
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
2 Karakas
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Stony Silence

4 Dryad Militant
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Glowrider
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Restoration Angel

SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Cavern of Souls
SB: 1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 2 War Priest of Thune
SB: 1 Wasteland

[rikimaru75]

Wow.  Looking at the unananimous decision path here, I ended up making the wrong play.

Me: I went Arid Mesa > Plateau > Gorilla Shaman : Pass.

Opponent: Mox Emerald, Forbidden Orchard, Oath of Druids : Pass.

Me: Flooded Strand > Tundra > Attack for 2 (with Shaman and Orchard Token) > Time Walk : Go to Time Walk Turn (Aiming to draw a 3rd land.)

Me (Time Walk): No third land drawn > Attack for 2. > What to do? How do you recover? Can you recover?

Hand:
Dryad Militant
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Phyrexian Metamorph
Thaldia, Guardian of Thraben (Drawn during non-Time Walk turn.)
Izzet Staticaster (Drawn during Time Walk Turn.)

[xouman]

Against T1 oath you can't do too much with this hand. In your current scenario, I'm doubting between Thalia and spirit. If he is on griselbrand, spirit is far better. In any other case, thalia is probably better, specially against demon, and even more since you have gorilla shaman. There is another option: driad + eat mox with gorilla, and could be even better than thalia alone. If I have no idea about what are they playing, I'd play spirit, just to prevent him winning with griselbrand.

Can you recover? Hard to say. Just play spirit, hope it's griselbrand, get the third land and play metamorph, playing every spell you can so he wastes counterspells. Assuming you have copied successfully the griselbrand (in most of other cases you are already dead), don't attack into opponent griselbrand, and don't block his, since it's legendary and he cannot have two. wait for karakas or swords. I prefer karakas since it avoids misdirection.

But I repeat, against T1 oath with orchard, you should lose most of the time. And most other decks would.

[vaughnbros]

Wow.  Looking at the unananimous decision path here, I ended up making the wrong play.

Me: I went Arid Mesa > Plateau > Gorilla Shaman : Pass.

Yeh there is really no benefit to mox monkey over dryad unless you are playing against shops.  You are looking at 2 power and an ability that requires it to be out early vs 1 power and an ability that doesn't care when it's.

You're not actually in a terrible spot against the oath player especially if you had played the with dryad first.  You drop the spirit denying him cards off his griselbrand than hope you can rip the land for the metamorph.  Whoever draws removal then first probably wins.

[Guli]

Turn 1 Dryad into turn 2 Spirit, if it is Demon Oath they will be badly hurt by Dryad because that deck needs their spells more so than Griselbrand Oath. Even if you will now post that it was Tyrant Oath or something, you still assume that Griselbrand will hit with that few information. Stopping their ability to draw 7 and any other draw means they are stuck with what they have in hand. I would say the Oath player is in a tight spot there, your hand is good.

[rikimaru75]

Sadly, hindsight is always 20/20.  

Once I saw the first turn Oath of Druids, I regretted not playing Dryad Militant instead.

If I went this route, attacking for a total of 6 damage instead of 4 (Dryad and Orchard token during the second turn and the Time Walk turn), he would only be able to draw seven ability with Griselbrand once (presuming he was Griselbrand) since he would be at 14 life.

However, before starting play, I just thought my opponent would be on Shops since I did not run into a Shops player at all up to this point. It was round 5.


In this case, I went with the following play:

Me (Time Walk turn): Attack for 2. > Dryad Militant > Destroy Mox Emerald with Gorilla Shaman : Pass.

I guessed my opponent was on Burning Oath with Griselbrand. So gambling with the Oath player having to dig deep to get Griselbrand, he would have to just Oath, draw a card and pass OR combo out right there OR go the beatdown plan.

Opponent: Oath > 1-2 cards deep finds Griselbrand > Combo with Burning Wish. Game.

After the match, I asked my opponent if during this game had I played Spirit of the Labyrinth during the Time Walk turn would anything have changed.
He replied that would not have been able to do anything and the game would have been completely different.



Live and learn, I suppose.  

[Guli]

I liked this exercise. Can you do another one?

[xouman]

Yes, please. One of the best (and quite easy and intuitive) ways to learn a deck is how to play first turns with it.

[rikimaru75]

I liked this exercise. Can you do another one?

I don't really have any new examples from a first turn perspective at this time. I took that last scenario from personal experience.
On that note, here's another one from my personal experience with the deck.
With all the feedback I'm getting, I'll try and give the deck another spin.

It's Game 3 against BUG Control. Your opponent started this game and both of you kept your opening seven cards.
It is the beginning of your turn, and you have reduced one another's hands and board states to the following:

Opponent's Board:
Underground Sea (untapped)

Opponent's Hand: 5 cards. Opponent has not casted anything in 3 turns. On his last turn, he just played the Underground Sea and passed the turn.

Opponent's Graveyard:
Misty Rainforest
Misty Rainforest
Bayou
Underground Sea
Island
Wasteland

Opponent's Exile:
Deathrite Shaman
Trygon Predator

Your Board:
Mox Pearl

Your Hand:
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Archetype of Courage
Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Your Graveyard:
Swords to Plowshares
Swords to Plowshares
Wasteland
Wasteland
Strip Mine
Plateau

For your turn, you draw a Wasteland.

What would you do?

[vaughnbros]

If I think they have the land, I wasteland them and pass the turn back.  This prevents them from hitting 2 mana and potentially dropping a goyf or bob that I can't handle.

If I don't think they have another land though I drop the Thalia, pass, then waste on my next turn.  This will prevent them from casting even a mox off the top.

I'm inclined to lean towards the latter since so many lands have already been played in this game, so the odds are more in your favor there.

[Guli]

Playing Spirit is the correct play, because that card will probably lure out their counter magic. If you can topdeck another land next turn, your Thalia will most likely hit and then you can combine it with a wasteland. If they don't counter the spirit, you have a clock on the board and something that prevents things like brainstorm and ancestral recall fixing their hand.

I explained this before, against BUG you do not want to go into a wasteland war unless you have good reasons. They run Deathrite Shaman and it can backfire fast if you aggressively waste. I generally delay my wasteland activations untill I have nice board and a good reason to hurt their mana.

You are also holding a Brimaz and Archetype. You do not want to waste here, and I think Spirit is the card to play, if they don't counter, you have a clock, if they do counter, you still have 2 more spirit in hand and your Thalia is more likely to hit.

[vaughnbros]

Playing Spirit is the correct play, because that card will probably lure out their counter magic. If you can topdeck another land next turn, your Thalia will most likely hit and then you can combine it with a wasteland. If they don't counter the spirit, you have a clock on the board and something that prevents things like brainstorm and ancestral recall fixing their hand.

I don't follow this logic.  Baiting counter magic is all fine and dandy when its pertinent, but that's not this scenario.  If I'm the BUG fish player why would I waste a force of will on a 3/1 do nothing?  Since I don't have ancestral or brainstorm in my hand or I likely would've cast them already.  In this scenario, Thalia also shuts off the only two cards spirit does anything to, brainstorm and ancestral.  She is also shutting off vampiric tutor, making moxen at least a turn slower, and makes all of your spells uncounterable after you waste them next turn.  Sure she could get hit by a force this turn, but thats even more likely to happen if we wait a turn as they will have another card. 

I explained this before, against BUG you do not want to go into a wasteland war unless you have good reasons. They run Deathrite Shaman and it can backfire fast if you aggressively waste. I generally delay my wasteland activations untill I have nice board and a good reason to hurt their mana.

You are also holding a Brimaz and Archetype. You do not want to waste here, and I think Spirit is the card to play, if they don't counter, you have a clock, if they do counter, you still have 2 more spirit in hand and your Thalia is more likely to hit.

Agreed though.  I'm not sure how the game got to this point, as in what we as the RW player have top decked, but it seems as though we should have been significantly less aggressive with our strip effects.