Mana Confluence

[MaximumCDawg]

There's ANOTHER card from Journey into Nix that is possibly Vintage playable.  Almost certainly, as a matter of fact.



Well, I guess they decided Modern needed two Cities of Brass...?  (Yeah, yeah, it's slightly different in ways that matter if your opponent has a Tangle Wire, I guess.)

Anyway, does this matter for Vintage at all?  We already had City, Gemstone Mine, and Undiscovered Paradise, and, for some applications, Cavern.  But now we have double City, which was possibly the best one of the lot to begin with.  Might we finally have enough mass of rainbow lands to do something new with the format?

Added pic.
-MM

[shrewarmies]

Some things right off the bat.

This card is in many respects better than City of Brass. As you pointed out, it does not kill you under a wire or in conjunction with Rishidan Port etc. It is not hit by City in a Bottle (rare as that is). That fact makes it better than CoB in Dredge.

It doubles your cities which means that the non-Oath Combo (e.g. Pitch Long) decks will replace their Gemstone mine/Forbidden Orchards to ensure only 1 life loss per tap.

Plus the foil will look sick.

[fsecco]

I think this just made City obsolete in every way. Even on the narrow City in a Bottle cases. I mean, why would you run City over this?

Now, I can't think of any deck that needs 8 cities. 8 City of Brass means a lot of damage. Maybe Tendrils? But even there I still think a few Gemstone Mines should be included.

Maybe Dredge. Dredge could use 8 Cities instead of Gemstones...

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Well, it is strictly better as city of brass. If it can be said in any case, it's here. (Of course, it's also almost always exactly the same).

- better than city for the reasons mentioned above, plus: doesn't deal damage with lotus cobra / urborg / stufflikethat

A vintage staple

[diopter]

Probably better than City, but what a terrible name.

[MaximumCDawg]

The name suggests it's gonna be a core set reprint, though.  That's good.

[diopter]

Oh, indeed.

I'm gonna miss leading with City of fucking BRASS out of 5c combo though. Such badass flavor

[Varal]

The only downside is that you can't use the mana with the damage trigger on the stack but it probably only matters if you play Lightning Bolt. I still think that Tangle Wire will kill you more often than City of Brass could save you. I don't think any deck play City of Brass and Lightning Bolt right now but a lot of decks play Tangle Wire. Everyone now need this card to replace City of Brass as the go to 5 color land.

The biggest impact would probably be in Legacy LED Dredge that always had trouble playing Undiscovered Paradise.

[JarofFortune]

I find it funny that Wizards would print a card that makes Dredge better. I'm very happy with how the set looks so far, and this card has some stunning art.

[Onslaught]

RIP City of Brass...hate to see an old iconic card be replaced like this.

[WhiteLotus]

Yay, Finally something good.

I do not think this will kill city of brass however, it will mean 5c decks do not have to run either orchard or gemstone mine. the Burning oath deck for example will probably cut gemstone mines and go for 4 mana confluence, 4 orchard and 2 city of brass.

[Guli]

You guys missing the point, this cards makes city of brass better.

I have been into these Cavern decks for a while now and there was a constant problem of the need of additional rainbow lands that would not be sacced (gemstone), or deal too much damage (tarnished citadel) or required a creature in play (Thran Quarry) or required an artifact in play (glimmervoid).

Now you can simply do 12 reliable rainbow lands and this solves the mana base problem once and for all because you also automatically add 4 waste + Strip too. This brings you at 17 lands already. Usually there are always some utility lands too which brings you close to 20. Add in moxes and nobles and thats all you need. Utility lands are for example, Karakas, Loa, Miko, Manlands, etc.

For those decks that used 1 or 2 city in their decks I can see how this is a replacement. But to be honest the impact on those decks is extremely low, while the impact on the 5C Cavern builds is huge.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

What Guli said.

As mentioned, it is almost always exactly the same as City, so it's not like lodestone Golem replacing juggernaut. what it is: another reliable 5c land.
This will enable a true "rainbow tribe" deck that doesn't have to worry about mana issues, doesn't force you to run suboptimal lands (for example orchard is nonbo if you want to attack).

[Guli]

If it replaces anything, it is Ancient Zigurat This directly has effect on the usage of Ancestral Recall and Time Walk and maybe even Demonic Tutor and other non creature spells that couldn't be cast off a Zigurat or the other conditional rainbow lands. The loss of life is usually solved anyway by things with Life gain. Stoneforge Batterskull is an example.

[boggyb]

One play this doesn't allow that City does: I'm at 1, Tap my City, Nature's Claim my Mox, I get to live another turn. That is slightly a thing. But only verrry slightly.

[vaughnbros]

Wow.  So this is now the best mana fixer ever.  Makes the whole block worth it I'd say.  I thought the day would never come when city of brass would be usurped after the parade of gemstone mine, undiscovered paradise, tarnished citadel, grand coliseum, tendo ice bridge, and plethora of other terrible 5 color lands (with exceptions of Cavern and Orchard who found a niche).

[DubDub]

So the first real playable from the set (another Red-hatebear-that-deals-damage-for-things-R&D-doesn't-want-to-have-happen doesn't really count in my book), is a functionally similar reprint.  Wonderful.

I can't wait to see what the four or five other cards that don't have creature as a type or as a word in their text box do.

[MaximumCDawg]

You forgot Mystic, who is also very good.

This set is leagues above the last few and we're still early in spoiler season.  Even the non-vintage cards are looking smarter and more creative.  I bet there are more eternal possibilities to come.

[brianpk80]

Great card.  I agree with MaximumC.  It feels as though Wizards is responding to the negative feedback on the power de-creep we've been enduring since Gatecrash.  If this is the case, there may finally be reason to look forward to the large block this fall. 

[DubDub]

You forgot Mystic, who is also very good.

This set is leagues above the last few and we're still early in spoiler season.  Even the non-vintage cards are looking smarter and more creative.  I bet there are more eternal possibilities to come.

I guess we disagree about a 1/1 for which does less than nothing against Shops and Dredge.  Were I ever to play Dakra Mystic, it would be with the hope that my opponent (playing blue obviously, because if they're playing Shops or Dredge then Mystic is hopeless) would use a Mental Misstep or Lightning Bolt on such an expendable card.

Edit: But hey, let's not let this discussion of Dakra Mystic obstruct discussion of a card already available in Vintage and how it's a clear sign that more goodies may be on the horizon.

[TheWhiteDragon]

This is fantastic!  They are opening up the door to functionally similar, yet mechanically different reprints!  Next set will contain (1 for each color):

0
Artifact
T, pay 1 life: add (choose mana color here) to your mana pool.

Can't wait!

[MaximumCDawg]

City isn't on the reserve list, so its printing proves very little.

The door to functionally similar reprints of reserve list cards has been open for awhile now.  See: Reverberate.

[DubDub]

The door to functionally similar reprints of reserve list cards has been open for awhile now.  See: Reverberate.

Except that they've said (MaRo I think?) Reverberate pushes the envelope too much regarding the 'spirit' of the Reserve List and that they wouldn't do something over-similar like Reverberate in the future.

[MaximumCDawg]

I guess it's possible some jackass sent them a Cease and Desist letter after they printed Reverberate... but otherwise it all sounds like so much wormy mealy mouth nonsense that doesn't mean anything.

I'm pretty confident they could still print legendary or snow or whatever duals if they really wanted to, for example.

[MTGFan]

Wow, this will certainly make those 5 color decks more consistent. Guli is spot-on in his assessment... now you can simply play any creature you want with a 4 Cavern, 4 City, 4 Confluence manabase. And you can play Strip/Wastes without problems.

[MaximumCDawg]

Maybe this will reign in the cost of Fetchlands, perhaps?  One way of dodging wasteland is fetching basics, but the other way is having every land you play tap for any color you want.

[hashswag]

Wow, this will certainly make those 5 color decks more consistent. Guli is spot-on in his assessment... now you can simply play any creature you want with a 4 Cavern, 4 City, 4 Confluence manabase. And you can play Strip/Wastes without problems.

Absolutely This.

[gkraigher]

The price of fetch lands will get smoked when they reprint all 10 in the next block.  As for this card, it's a huge upgrade to a vintage classic.  Only way it could be worse than city is if a playable gets printed that restricts aplayers abitily to pay life, which seems unlikely given how much that would hurt fetch lands.  It also opens up more 5 color decks.  It's absolutely incredible. 

[MaximumCDawg]

Well, if you want to kill fetch prices, printing a card that stops you from paying life helps with that, too.  Can you imagine how fun humans become with this:

Lil' Stinker W
1/1
Opponents cannot pay life to pay for spells or abilities.

[Sloth]

The only downside is that you can't use the mana with the damage trigger on the stack but it probably only matters if you play Lightning Bolt.

One play this doesn't allow that City does: I'm at 1, Tap my City, Nature's Claim my Mox, I get to live another turn. That is slightly a thing. But only verrry slightly.

There are quite a few more corner cases in which City of Brass is better than Mana Confluence:

- Angel of Jubilation is on the battlefield.
- You control Platinum Emperion.
- You control Phyrexian Unlife, Lich, Lich's Tomb,... (or cast Angel's Grace) and are below 2 life.
- You have a damage prevention effect ready like Urza's Armor or Rune of Protection: Lands.

But..., yes none of these really matter in Vintage.