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Author Topic: Echoing Truth  (Read 3742 times)
BlueSteel
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« on: April 20, 2014, 11:47:02 am »

Did a quick search, didn't see anything on this.  


Card Name:
Echoing Truth
Mana Cost:
1Blue
Converted Mana Cost:
2

Types:
Instant
Card Text:
Return target nonland permanent and all other permanents with the same name as that permanent to their owners' hands.


I have an active untapped Kuldotha Forgemaster, a Wurmcoil engine and two other artifacts in play.  My opponent casts Echoing Truth targeting Wurmcoil Engine.  I respond by activating Kuldotha sacrificing Wurmcoil Engine and the two artifacts to search out another Wurmcoil Engine.

Does Echoing Truth "fizzle" because the target is no longer there or does it still resolve affecting "all other permanents with the same name".  In other words, does my new Wurmcoil Engine get bounced or does nothing happen?

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 11:53:41 am by BlueSteel » Logged

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TVand
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 12:51:11 pm »

Echoing Truth is a targeted spell and as such its target must remain legal for it to resolve, so in this case it would be countered.
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JPoJohnson
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 01:32:10 pm »

Echoing Truth is a targeted spell and as such its target must remain legal for it to resolve, so in this case it would be countered.

This is how it occurs with all targeting spells/abilities. Just as an additional example, if you flickered your Wurmcoil Engine, even though the same card enters back into the battlefield and before the destruction/bounce spell resolves that HAD been targetting it, it is now a 'new' permanent and the spell still fizzles.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 09:51:39 am »

The tricky bit about this is that a card with a single target gets countered on resolution if the target isn't around anymore, even if it would do other, unrelated stuff in addition.  This gets people who case Cryptic Command, for example: they choose to counter a spell and to draw a card, say, and then the spell targeted gets removed from the stack before Command resolves.  When that happens, the entire Cryptic Command gets countered, even though part of its ability doesn't need a target. 

Single target + no more target = card does absolutely nothing.
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Ten-Ten
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2014, 12:03:06 am »

I keep reading "gets countered" when in fact if a spell has no legal target when it would resolve, it merely does nothing. This matters alot when trying to explain cards like Abrupt Decay (which is uncounterable) to newer players.
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2014, 12:59:57 am »

Abrupt Decay can't be countered by spells or abilities. The rules of the game can still counter it. So, if you cast Abrupt Decay on an opponent's Thalia, and your opponent gives her Protection from Black with a Mother of Runes in response, the Abrupt Decay is countered.
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Ten-Ten
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2014, 04:31:35 pm »

608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal.
This^^ cleared it up..
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Tha Gunslinga
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 10:32:23 pm »

"Countered upon resolution" is the term we're looking for, I believe.
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