Magic Online Vintage Dailies Results

[Samoht]

Some stats ive been keeping track of. Is there a way to add a SPOILER on this forum?

No, although you can change the colour of the text until it can't easily be seen without highlighting it. Beige is a good one for that.

I think he was looking for a way to collapse/open the data so as not to chunk up the thread with longer posts.

[desolutionist]

This thread isn't being updated.  What is the Wizards link that you lets you see the incoming tournament results?

[Smmenen]

I am updating the original post.

[Zherbus]

This thread isn't being updated.  What is the Wizards link that you lets you see the incoming tournament results?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/products/magiconline/decklists

[desolutionist]

They're not posting all of the dailies... Sort of like when I go to sort by CMC in collection mode...

[Smmenen]

They're not posting all of the dailies... Sort of like when I go to sort by CMC in collection mode...

yeah, this was established in the first page of this thread, just like that link.  They only post the results for the daily that had the most players.

[rickster]

They're not posting all of the dailies... Sort of like when I go to sort by CMC in collection mode...

When Kibler "broke" Innistraad block with jund the format on mtgo was 80% jund. WotC did not want that to happen so they only publish results for 1 daily event per day

are you saying they're not posting one result per day?

Sometimes the person/people who publish results go on vacation so the results don't get published. so I'd wait a week of having no results being published before barking at Worth et al on Twitter

[Zherbus]

More times than not, the 6:30 PM EST event has the most players, so the likelyhood if you're a 9:30 EST guy like myself or an early bird (or European), you won't see those events posted. Exceptions do occur though.

[Coopes]

More times than not, the 6:30 PM EST event has the most players, so the likelyhood if you're a 9:30 EST guy like myself or an early bird (or European), you won't see those events posted. Exceptions do occur though.

yep, i've found this is generally true. it doesn't help any that the 5;30 daily is now bleeding into the 8;30 one more, due to the increase of the in-game timer.

[Smmenen]

I updated the OP.  Apparently, two dailies didn't fire or weren't reported in the last week. 

[desolutionist]

So after playing a ton of Vintage MTGO my take on it is that BUG Fish is the deck to beat.  This might change once Workshops gets thrown back into the mix of things; the Tangle Wire bug is even worse than the Necropotence bug!  BUG Fish isn't really a traditional Fish deck because Snapcaster ACall/Time Walk with Jace and FoWs is about as broken as you need to be.  The traditional Fish deck of the format is white and plays Thalias.

I think Gush Doomsday and Burning Tendrils (w/ Oath) are the only viable "Ritual" decks and even they are not the best positioned.  BUG Fish just attacks you from every possible angle and you need to be able to survive their onslaught of 1-for-1s and either kill Bob/Jace or win the game. Also every deck plays Mental Misstep.  So its kind of a bigger challenge than you want if you're looking for free and quick wins.

And I think RUG Delver is clearly the best Gush deck at the moment.

NWCS is the dark horse of the format.  I think only The Atog Lord plays it, but he whoops me every time.

Merfolk, Goblins, or some other kind of fast aggro would do really well and catch a lot of people off guard.

[Coopes]

So after playing a ton of Vintage MTGO my take on it is that BUG Fish is the deck to beat.  This might change once Workshops gets thrown back into the mix of things; the Tangle Wire bug is even worse than the Necropotence bug!  BUG Fish isn't really a traditional Fish deck because Snapcaster ACall/Time Walk with Jace and FoWs is about as broken as you need to be.  The traditional Fish deck of the format is white and plays Thalias.

I think Gush Doomsday and Burning Tendrils (w/ Oath) are the only viable "Ritual" decks and even they are not the best positioned.  BUG Fish just attacks you from every possible angle and you need to be able to survive their onslaught of 1-for-1s and either kill Bob/Jace or win the game. Also every deck plays Mental Misstep.  So its kind of a bigger challenge than you want if you're looking for free and quick wins.

And I think RUG Delver is clearly the best Gush deck at the moment.

NWCS is the dark horse of the format.  I think only The Atog Lord plays it, but he whoops me every time.

Merfolk, Goblins, or some other kind of fast aggro would do really well and catch a lot of people off guard.

Yep, I have faced BUG FISH online the most out of all the decks. BTW, what's this bit about the traditional fish deck playing white + thalias? I haven't seen that list online

[Samoht]

So after playing a ton of Vintage MTGO my take on it is that BUG Fish is the deck to beat.  This might change once Workshops gets thrown back into the mix of things; the Tangle Wire bug is even worse than the Necropotence bug!  BUG Fish isn't really a traditional Fish deck because Snapcaster ACall/Time Walk with Jace and FoWs is about as broken as you need to be.  The traditional Fish deck of the format is white and plays Thalias.

I think Gush Doomsday and Burning Tendrils (w/ Oath) are the only viable "Ritual" decks and even they are not the best positioned.  BUG Fish just attacks you from every possible angle and you need to be able to survive their onslaught of 1-for-1s and either kill Bob/Jace or win the game. Also every deck plays Mental Misstep.  So its kind of a bigger challenge than you want if you're looking for free and quick wins.

And I think RUG Delver is clearly the best Gush deck at the moment.

NWCS is the dark horse of the format.  I think only The Atog Lord plays it, but he whoops me every time.

Merfolk, Goblins, or some other kind of fast aggro would do really well and catch a lot of people off guard.

Yep, I have faced BUG FISH online the most out of all the decks. BTW, what's this bit about the traditional fish deck playing white + thalias? I haven't seen that list online

Aren't you a fish deck playing Thalia right now?

[Coopes]

So after playing a ton of Vintage MTGO my take on it is that BUG Fish is the deck to beat.  This might change once Workshops gets thrown back into the mix of things; the Tangle Wire bug is even worse than the Necropotence bug!  BUG Fish isn't really a traditional Fish deck because Snapcaster ACall/Time Walk with Jace and FoWs is about as broken as you need to be.  The traditional Fish deck of the format is white and plays Thalias.

I think Gush Doomsday and Burning Tendrils (w/ Oath) are the only viable "Ritual" decks and even they are not the best positioned.  BUG Fish just attacks you from every possible angle and you need to be able to survive their onslaught of 1-for-1s and either kill Bob/Jace or win the game. Also every deck plays Mental Misstep.  So its kind of a bigger challenge than you want if you're looking for free and quick wins.

And I think RUG Delver is clearly the best Gush deck at the moment.

NWCS is the dark horse of the format.  I think only The Atog Lord plays it, but he whoops me every time.

Merfolk, Goblins, or some other kind of fast aggro would do really well and catch a lot of people off guard.

Yep, I have faced BUG FISH online the most out of all the decks. BTW, what's this bit about the traditional fish deck playing white + thalias? I haven't seen that list online

Aren't you a fish deck playing Thalia right now?

I haven't been able to play for the past few days, but normally yes, I play 4-5c humans with thalias. i was just wondering what made it the "traditional" one over bug

[desolutionist]

I just feel like Thalia is more about anti-meta as opposed to BUG which pretty much just goes for a Time Walk kill.  I've run into Thalia decks once or twice, but it is very unpopular

[Smmenen]

Shawn,

I really agree with much of your assessment.

I view BUG, regardless of the amount of play it actually sees, as the theoretical anchor of the entire Vintage metagame for the reasons you mentioned.  Not only did it win the Bazaar of Moxen in 2013, where I think it established itself as top tier, but I continue to see it performing well.

BUG combines a huge density of countermagic (roughly 15 counterspells) that's almost impossible for any other deck to match with unparalleled removal (Abrupt Decay, Snuff out in SB as option), disruption (Null Rod & Wasteland) and the best creatures (DRS, Bob, Trygon, etc). 

BUG, like Delver, also has tremendous role flexibility.  BUG can be a beatdown deck or a control deck winning with DRS. 

Where I see the metagame shifting is again, toward more ground elements.  Batterskull seems to be ubiquitous these days.  Even Workshop decks are playing it.  Stoneforge Mystic seems to be on the rise. 

[Coopes]

I just feel like Thalia is more about anti-meta as opposed to BUG which pretty much just goes for a Time Walk kill.  I've run into Thalia decks once or twice, but it is very unpopular

i just didn't understand why the version with thalia is known as the traditional one to you, which is what i had asked. was she played more in the past or something ?

[Grand Inquisitor]

BUG, like Delver, also has tremendous role flexibility.  BUG can be a beatdown deck or a control deck winning with DRS. 

BUG can play different roles, but in terms of its ability to adaptably move between them, I think it's far inferior to Delver.  The evasion of RUG creatures and the diversity of applications of lightning bolt really give the deck an edge.  I'd also take Preordain/Gush's ability to filter for the right cards compared with Bob/black tutors.

I'm not saying BUG isn't both powerful and flexible, but it's not as nimble as other options (I'd say Grixis is more nimble too).

[desolutionist]

I just feel like Thalia is more about anti-meta as opposed to BUG which pretty much just goes for a Time Walk kill.  I've run into Thalia decks once or twice, but it is very unpopular

i just didn't understand why the version with thalia is known as the traditional one to you, which is what i had asked. was she played more in the past or something ?

No, Fish used to play Meddling Mages though.  "Traditional Fish" would be a deck that uses Stifles, Wastelands, Null Rods, Dazes, and any variation of Meddling Mage, Kataki, Magus of the Moon, etc. The main theme is that plays cards to compensate for being underpowered against a powered opponent.  Thalia is basically the card that fish always wanted to have and is the perfect example of what that deck wants to do.

But on the other hand, I don't really consider BUG Fish to be in that category at all.  Snapcaster Mage and Dark Confidant combine to beat the opponent with raw card advantage and by replaying powerful spells.  

Maybe Vintage is starting to get so far into the creature game that the lines are starting to blur.  I don't mean to confuse anybody.

[Coopes]

I just feel like Thalia is more about anti-meta as opposed to BUG which pretty much just goes for a Time Walk kill.  I've run into Thalia decks once or twice, but it is very unpopular

i just didn't understand why the version with thalia is known as the traditional one to you, which is what i had asked. was she played more in the past or something ?

No, Fish used to play Meddling Mages though.  "Traditional Fish" would be a deck that uses Stifles, Wastelands, Null Rods, Dazes, and any variation of Meddling Mage, Kataki, Magus of the Moon, etc. The main theme is that plays cards to compensate for being underpowered against a powered opponent.  Thalia is basically the card that fish always wanted to have and is the perfect example of what that deck wants to do.

But on the other hand, I don't really consider BUG Fish to be in that category at all.  Snapcaster Mage and Dark Confidant combine to beat the opponent with raw card advantage and by replaying powerful spells.  

Maybe Vintage is starting to get so far into the creature game that the lines are starting to blur.  I don't mean to confuse anybody.

I was genuinely curious of your opinion, thanks for the replies.

[fsecco]

As far as I know, Fish was originally Merfolks, and then it became a kind of a slang to denominate "blue decks with little creatures". So Humans and Thalia decks, normally without blue (or at least without too much blue) couldn't be considered Fish, could them? Hell, I don't even know why BUG is called Fish... but anyway, Fish seems such a broad category that I can't even see a pattern anymore.

[Prospero]

Fish:

The most current decklist for Gay fish is as follows:

Creatures:
4 Rootwater Thief
4 Manta Riders
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Cloud of Faeries

Spells:
4 Force of Will
3 Misdirections
4 Standstill
4 Curiosity
2 Psionic Blast
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Null Rod

Mana Sources:
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
9 Island

The sideboard I use changes wildly depending on what I expect the metagame to be.  Some of the cards I consider are:

Wasteland
Propaganda
Blue Elemental Blast
Extract
Psionic Blast
Tradewind Rider
Washout
Snap
Upheaval
Man o'war
Waterfront Bouncer


Bebe prefers kegs for removal, I prefer bounce, but I find it's really just a matter of taste (there's just something funny about beating the best decks in MTG with 1/1's and bounce).

Either way, this deck is quite good and has served me well in the trenches of Richmond comix where it has become one of the "decks to beat", locally anyways.



A word of caution however: beware tsabo's web.  I was recently traumatized after loosing to keeper (a match that is usually very favorable), both games the keeper player got out the web on me and I was simply unable to recover.  This was so distressing because this deck is aggro control, it's supposed to beat control decks like keeper.  If it can't do that because of an artifact cantrip that keeper can easily sideboard (or even main deck), this is a huge problem.  

Unfortunately i know of only a few ways to combat this, and someone please correct me if i'm wrong cause i'm not sure if this is an answer, but will tidal warrior's ability:
"T: Target land becomes an island until end of turn."
if done during the clean up step of an opponents turn allow your man land to untap?

*sigh*

you know, even if that does work, it's really a very poor solution to the web since it requires the addition of tidal warrior to the sideboard (seem weak to anyone else?) in place of other more valuable cards.  


Bounce is another option, but since tsabo's web reads:
"When Tsabo's Web comes into play, draw a card."
allowing him to play it multiple times would be free draws for him.


Powder Keg is another option, but if you're packing null rods (my other reason behind not packing them in the sideboard) there is a gross lack of synergy there.  Even if you side out the nulls for kegs, vs a fully powered keeper nulls are invaluable....it's a tough call which to use, and i would not advise trying to run both.  But maybe that IS the solution since it can also kill morphling...hmmm.


My true hope however, is in extract:
U - Sorcery
"Search target player's library for a card, and remove that card from the game. Then that player suffles his or her library."
I have no idea how it will do since i've not tested extract yet, but keeper hates rootwater thieves and there are 4 of those already maindecked.  And while it pains me to have to add keeper hate to my sideboard (the deck's build is supposed to beat keeper inherantly, without having to resort to heavy sideboarding) at least extract will also be useful vs the new dragon decks i expect to see.  And previously combo was not addressed on the sideboard anyway.


All comments welcome

Also, Manta Rider ftw.

Now that's some vintage Vintage...

[KrauserKrauser]

I thought Gay Fish was U/R with Fire/Ice and Grim Lavamancers, or was that a later innovation?

That was my first competitive deck, even decked it out in some pink sleeves.

It was a different, niavely intolertant time.

[Prospero]

I thought Gay Fish was U/R with Fire/Ice and Grim Lavamancers, or was that a later innovation?

That was my first competitive deck, even decked it out in some pink sleeves.

It was a different, niavely intolertant time.

That's how I remember it as well, but here we are.

We were younger, stupider, etc. 

[Samoht]

For me, a Fish deck plays Null Rod and annoying creatures. They all fit. :p

[fsecco]

Rootwater Thief <3

[wiley]

I thought Gay Fish was U/R with Fire/Ice and Grim Lavamancers, or was that a later innovation?

That was my first competitive deck, even decked it out in some pink sleeves.

It was a different, niavely intolertant time.

That was a much later version.  The original Gay Fish was Ur with Dwarven Miner giving it a mana denial element, and largely influencing the gay monicker.  If it got a chance it was pretty back breaking, but superman squished it for a while.

[Coopes]

I thought Gay Fish was U/R with Fire/Ice and Grim Lavamancers, or was that a later innovation?

That was my first competitive deck, even decked it out in some pink sleeves.

It was a different, niavely intolertant time.

That was a much later version.  The original Gay Fish was Ur with Dwarven Miner giving it a mana denial element, and largely influencing the gay monicker.  If it got a chance it was pretty back breaking, but superman squished it for a while.

Is this because having your lands blown up is gay? Or is it because Dwarven Miner looks gay? This whole gay thing with fish isn't something I had heard before, lol.

[wiley]

Because dwarven miner looks gay.  It is one of the few tournament viable obvious joke cards (as in the art writes the joke itself), right up there with Uktabi Orangutan (and unlike Clergy en-Vec).

[Smmenen]

I thought Gay Fish was U/R with Fire/Ice and Grim Lavamancers, or was that a later innovation?

That was my first competitive deck, even decked it out in some pink sleeves.

It was a different, niavely intolertant time.

That's how I remember it as well, but here we are.

We were younger, stupider, etc. 

I was never comfortable with that moniker, and I think I rarely used it when writing about that deck.